Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Kilo not track geo? Upgrade time

ok

why do you need track geo?

Maybe look into alien.

if you like the slanted top tube(i assume slanted towards the stem, people who like the looks of fixed gears don't seem to like the slanted geo road bikes) check out the pursuit frame from affinity cycles.

Aliens are going to have some of the tightest track geo around.
I second the Affinitys for a pursuit frame.

Hello,
Was going to ask that some fellows claim the kilo tt is a mix of track and road geometry. Was wondering what its lacking to be track geo. Whats a step up from a kilo with 100% track geo?

The angles of the kilo's head tube and seat tube are both about 1 degree less close to vertical as what some call a "track geometry" (typically a 74 deg ht and 75 deg st). They end up having a slightly longer top tube and wheelbase. The difference is hardly noticeable visually- I haven't been on a kilo, but I imagine the difference in handling between it and 07 Bianchi Pista (it has the aforementioned track geo.) would be negligible.

You want something with the "look of a real track bike" but you don't know what makes a frame's geometry "real track geometry". Do your damn homework.

$h!t. If you're going for the look of a "real track bike" get a BMC track machine or a LOOK frame. At least you won't be half assing it when you're riding your "real track bike" around your neighborhood.

i love the look of a real track bike, the geometry and what not. I really love the ones with slanted top tubes. On top of that, I want something one day to go to the velo with.

almost all track bikes i see have horizontal top tubes, roadies have the compact geo. unless you mean pursuit/ vintage time trial bikes.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to eyeball the difference between a kilo frame and a true track geometry with similar shape and diameter tubes. track geo is usually not the most comfortable for the long haul either. This last part is just based off of what i've heard, I've only ridden road frames (comfy) and my shogun kaze (which goes to show people who dream to commute on vintage time trial bikes have probably never ridden one. I commute on it occasionally, but it's no where near as comfortable as a regular bike. everyday use would be brutal)

Right on. It's critical to ensure you buy the right kind of street cred when you get your bike. You can often see many sad cases of people who didn't buy the right kind of bike trying to establish some kind of credibility by riding hard and demonstrating proper bike handling skills. This pursuit is of course futile, which makes it all the more sad. Like tilting at windmills really.

What you really want to do is look into something that bone stock looks almost unrideable and combine it with something with a deep drop such as nitto 123s (bonus cred awarded for being NJS certified). If you can decrease your crank length and raise your seat up further you'll be even better off.

i love the look of a real track bike... I want something one day to go to the velo with.

You can ride a Kilo on the track, as well as a handful of lower-end track/street bikes. It sounds like you just want street-cred.

but I wanted something a little more aggresive.


aggressive how?

i haven't ridden a kilo, but i've messed around on my roomie's clockwork. It seems good enough, and i'm not sure if a fix for "more aggressive" (which is so vague that I'm really guessing you mean you want a bike that's more twitchy) would be going for a more expensive frame with more track geo.

how are you going to be riding this? are you actually going to be using it or is this a bike you drive to starbucks and walk around (walking it of course to show that it's fixed). you can drop the coin on a new frame if you want. you also may find you'll get the twitchiness you desire with lighter wheels or a 650c front. the difference of the 1 degree in the seat tube can probably be approximated by sliding your saddle forward an inch.

ok

Looked up the alien frame, tbh the frame doesnt look dramastically different than kilo. The fork looks almost the same..


i love the look of a real track bike, the geometry and what not. I really love the ones with slanted top tubes. On top of that, I want something one day to go to the velo with.


nah really dont want "street cred", or "ride around in the neighborhood" bs. Just want to step up from a kilo, and was confused with some basic terms. Kilos great and all, but I wanted something a little more aggresive.

Thanks

It's pretty damn clear you don't know anything at all about geometry and are going for some bull**** all-fashion, no-passion type deal.

Even though this kinda feels like a troll post, folks up in here get bent out of shape real fast. Hopefully I can offer something more productive.

Your Kilo is fine. It's a great frame. And it would be almost impossible to tell the difference in performance between that and a "true" track frame. However, it's your money and you can do whatever you want. That said, I would highly advise against getting a more aggressive pursuit-type frame if you're using it on the street. Your shoulders, arms, neck and back will get sore and tired very quickly. And anyone who knows a lick about bikes is going to sneer at you.

Even though this kinda feels like a troll post, folks up in here get bent out of shape real fast. Hopefully I can offer something more productive.

Your Kilo is fine. It's a great frame. And it would be almost impossible to tell the difference in performance between that and a "true" track frame. However, it's your money and you can do whatever you want. That said, I would highly advise against getting a more aggressive pursuit-type frame if you're using it on the street. Your shoulders, arms, neck and back will get sore and tired very quickly. And anyone who knows a lick about bikes is going to sneer at you.

already been covered. I don't think he really knows what he's looking for honestly. It sounds like he's looking for the look more than the feel. In which case yah, go with a leader, you'll get tight wheel gaps on the cheap with one of those frames

lol, "ok." You can delete posts, you know.

already been covered. I don't think he really knows what he's looking for honestly. It sounds like he's looking for the look more than the feel. In which case yah, go with a leader, you'll get tight wheel gaps on the cheap with one of those frames

ok.:D

Even though this kinda feels like a troll post, folks up in here get bent out of shape real fast. Hopefully I can offer something more productive.

Your Kilo is fine. It's a great frame. And it would be almost impossible to tell the difference in performance between that and a "true" track frame. However, it's your money and you can do whatever you want. That said, I would highly advise against getting a more aggressive pursuit-type frame if you're using it on the street. Your shoulders, arms, neck and back will get sore and tired very quickly. And anyone who knows a lick about bikes is going to sneer at you.

Thank you, actually giving me some information and not calling me some fashion *****, when I really was just wanting to get a more decent frame. Im not too sure whats up with the whole trend on single speed/ fixed gear bicycles.

Thank you, actually giving me some information and not calling me some fashion *****, when I really was just wanting to get a more decent frame. Im not too sure whats up with the whole trend on single speed/ fixed gear bicycles.

real talk: the kilo tt is a fine enough frame and really the bareknuckle would be the next step up. save your pennies.

unless you're riding really hardcore i wouldn't buy just for the slight change in geo since anything in the 300 dollar range is basically the same if it's steel. if you want cheap and something that'll probably feel more "aggressive" go with the leader. of course you should find a friend or something with some different frames and try it out for yourself. you may find this more aggressive geo is not what you're looking for.

thanks, if you dont mind me asking, how is a bareknuckle worth 600 more than a kilo? Looks to be the same weight...same basic design other than fork..

wow, i didn't know how much they went for... a local guy has been trying to sell his frame (new, wrapped up in bubble wrap) for $375-400. so i figured they were about 450 new. guess that makes me the noob. I haven't ridden one, but the geometry differences and workmanship supposedly make it a really nice frame. I would have built up with this frame that this guy was selling, but my budget for a complete bike was only about 450...

almost all track bikes i see have horizontal top tubes, roadies have the compact geo. Huh, no. Not all road bikes are compact. More compact in recent years, but it's not standard.

Huh, no. Not all road bikes are compact. More compact in recent years, but it's not standard.

oh sorry. I meant it's more common on road bikes and almost unseen in fixed (except for the langster and bowery. trek soho too? can't remember.)

this thread is my favorite kind.

"track geometry" gets talked about so much here, but in reality it's a range of measurements. some, like BMC's track machine, have a 73 degree head tube, while others are 74 or 75. people frequently talk about low-rake track forks, while many track frames come with a 40mm rake fork.

especially for a street bike, the things you're likely to notice are a high BB and a short wheelbase.

It's pretty damn clear you don't know anything at all about geometry and are going for some bull**** all-fashion, no-passion type deal.

Exactly.

btw, if anyone wants to make their bike feel more "aggressive", just pedal faster.

Another free upgrade to having a more aggressive feel is to bend your elbows and lower your shoulders.

Damn, I haven't seen someone get their @ss handed to them like this since dougland89 and his FTP debacle. No pro's or con's to this, just damn...

especially for a street bike, the things you're likely to notice are a high BB and a short wheelbase.

And toe overlap!

"track geometry" gets talked about so much here, but in reality it's a range of measurements. some, like BMC's track machine, have a 73 degree head tube, while others are 74 or 75. people frequently talk about low-rake track forks, while many track frames come with a 40mm rake fork.

especially for a street bike, the things you're likely to notice are a high BB and a short wheelbase.

AFAIK new school carbon frames have more similar front-end geometry to road frames (73 HT with more road-ish rake, 37.5-45mm) because the front end can already be built stiff as hell with the carbon and the wheelbase can be tightened sufficiently by doing cutouts. Also, the new school philosophy is to make frames with a minimal amount of toe overlap, or total lack of it, for the sake of slow roll-outs in match sprints. Therefore, having the front wheel slightly farther away from the pedals.

The old school way was to have a steeper head tube and lower rake fork when steel was the only material being built and raced. Basically tightened the wheelbase, got the front wheel closer underneath the rider and made the handling a little more 'twitchy' with the tighter wheelbase yet at the same time more stable under sprinting speeds with the higher trail. The front end was stiffened in addition - when the same diameter steel was being employed on nearly all bikes and the components were pretty close to the same at the high end level, builders and racers looked to more subtle ways to tweak things, like steepening the head tube here or using oil instead of grease and taking out a single ball bearing there.
When people on this forum are talking about track geometry, they're usually referring to this classic ideal... that and the higher BB of course, and shorter chainstays.

Point is, track geometry has evolved over time. Now, the pro-level carbon stuff looks closer and closer to road/crit stuff front-end wise, especially with the more shallow road bars being more of the norm in professional mass-start races. Of course there's still typically higher BB's, shorter chainstays, and steeper seat tubes on track frames vs. road frames that are going to see more diverse terrain / time in the saddle in any given race.

Sometimes I have to explain all that to people when they ask me about my Leader. All the pro carbon track bikes I see have the super low toptube and short headtube and a stem pointing to the sky with road drops. That's just how they are nowadays.

AFAIK new school carbon frames have more similar front-end geometry to road frames (73 HT with more road-ish rake, 37.5-45mm) because the front end can already be built stiff as hell with the carbon and the wheelbase can be tightened sufficiently by doing cutouts. Also, the new school philosophy is to make frames with a minimal amount of toe overlap, or total lack of it, for the sake of slow roll-outs in match sprints. Therefore, having the front wheel slightly farther away from the pedals.

that makes lots of sense, especially when you consider a builder can make one moldset for a frame versatile enough to do many different events, with minor tweaks to the setup.


Sometimes I have to explain all that to people when they ask me about my Leader. All the pro carbon track bikes I see have the super low toptube and short headtube and a stem pointing to the sky with road drops. That's just how they are nowadays.

at least it's easier with threadless to get the bars higher than lower.