Commuting - School Busses

Regarding School Busses - It occured to me this morning as I was waiting for one to load in my card, that a bicyclist might be inclined to wait with the traffic rather than riding past. However, I noticed a sidewalk and wondered how folks wold feel if a bicyclist got off their bike and walked past the bus then got back on and kept riding before the cars were allowed to pass. Would that be an infringement in traffic law? I don't think so. Personally I think it's fine if the bicyclist rides past the bus - but I know we're supposed to follow the same laws.

What do we think about walking our bikes past a loading school bus?

The bus is going to pass you again 1/4mi up the road, so what's the difference if you sit and wait, vs. repeatedly hopping on/off and walking past it?

interesting point but I was referring to a bus going in the other direction

hmm, I never thought about that, I've stopped for the bus while driving in the winter but haven't been past one while commuting. The bus technically has a stop sign and some states have those laws allowing bikes to carefully roll through a stop sign or red light, wonder if that applies? Wonder about the people on bikes who don't stop at stop signs, do they not stop for busses either?

Walking by a shoolbus is perfectly legal. Just give it plenty of room before getting back onto the bike so there's no question that you were walking - not riding - the whole way past. The driver will be watching and they love to report people who illegally pass.

Or ......

http://bikehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/india-school-bus-tricycle.jpg


Walking by the bus is legal.

Walking is legal. Cycling or driving is not.

Don't care will pass.

Being able to take walking shortcuts is one of the perks of being a bike commuter, that's the privilege of not being in a car. It's what I'd do.



Don't care will pass.

Really? Would you care if you hit a child?

Being able to take walking shortcuts is one of the perks of being a bike commuter, that's the privilege of not being in a car. It's what I'd do.




Really? Would you care if you hit a child?

I think you misread the post. He said "will pass", not "will hit a child."

Unless you maybe assumed he rides blindfolded....

I always wait, since that's required by law, and people do not take that law lightly around here; two kids have been killed by impatient people in the local school districts in the last 10 years and people remember that. A cyclist would probably at least get the stinkeye, a car is likely to be chased down to get the plate number and 911'd in, and the cops WILL come and bust their asses for it.

There aren't any sidewalks on my route, so I'd have to walk on the road. Since you're supposed to not drive within 100 feet of a stopped bus, which is 30 feet long or so, I'd have to walk 230 feet to get past a stopped bus. There's no point in walking past that, by the time I walked that far, I could have just waited and gone when the flashers whent off.

When the flashers go off, I will either pass or not depending on the area of my route. There are some areas where the bus stops are so numerous and close together that I can easily outdistance the bus; in those areas I'll pass, sprint for a bit to keep ahead of the bus until the next stop, then I'm good. If the next stop is a long way off, I wait behind.

I think you misread the post. He said "will pass", not "will hit a child."

Unless you maybe assumed he rides blindfolded....

Thanks for covering that for me.

What do we think about walking our bikes past a loading school bus?

No different than a pedestrian walking past a loading or unloading bus. No big deal at all.

I take the lane, stop and wait.

I would never even consider it. I am a vehicle on the road. I stop and wait. My viewpoint is: I have the same rights as all vehicles, I act like vehicle, and I expect to be treated as one in return.

I think you misread the post. He said "will pass", not "will hit a child."

Unless you maybe assumed he rides blindfolded....

You could use the same argument to pass while driving, couldn't you?

Sounds more like a justification by an impatient person than a reason to me...

Ja, I always stop and wait for the kids to get on the bus. I hadn't thought about walking past, but that would be completely legal. I might do that next time I get stopped right when the bus stops.

I find other riders will only stop if I'm stopped. Seriously. I've seen guys ride right through the bus stop sign, but stop if someone else is there. Peer pressure, I guess.

You could use the same argument to pass while driving, couldn't you?

Sounds more like a justification by an impatient person than a reason to me...

I don't think so because a bike is far more maneuverable than a car, a cyclist has far better visibility than a motorist, and a car has far more potential to injure/maim/kill than a bike.

A question for people who would get off and walk:

Would you consider staying on the bike, but riding at a walking pace?

A question for people who would get off and walk:

Would you consider staying on the bike, but riding at a walking pace?

Yes. But only in the case where the bus is in the opposite lane from mine. I may even
stay seated but push with my feet on the ground.

I would never even consider it. I am a vehicle on the road. I stop and wait. My viewpoint is: I have the same rights as all vehicles, I act like vehicle, and I expect to be treated as one in return.

Many people have this perspective and I respect it. My problems with it is that whatever my expectations may be I don't get treated like a motor vehicle. I don't have the capabilities of a motor vehicle and a motor vehicle doesn't have my capabilities. I made a decision to leave my house on a me powered vehicle, a bicycle. Why would I want to act like a car?

Yes. But only in the case where the bus is in the opposite lane from mine. I may even
stay seated but push with my feet on the ground.

You really are a boyscout.

If you are walking your bicycle, then you are a pedestrian and you follow the laws that apply to pedestrians. Simply put, it's perfectly legal to walk your bicycle past a stopped schoolbus.

A question for people who would get off and walk:

Would you consider staying on the bike, but riding at a walking pace?

No, I got nailed for that once when my normal bike route was closed to just pedestrian traffic. A police officer told me I had to walk my bicycle. I straddled the bike and with one foot on the bottom pedal and one on the ground, started to push and roll the bike for the exit (note, just rolling at a walking pace, not pedaling). A few seconds later, I got tackled by two police officers who started screaming at me asking if I knew what walking my bicycle meant. I was dumbfounded because I thought I was complying with their order. They wrote me a ticket (which later got overturned in court), but it taught me a valuable lesson that walking does not equal pushing a walking pace (I suppose it also taught me to do exactly what an officer says, not what I think is okay, but that's another story... they may have won my obedience, but they lost my respect).

Don't care will pass.

Well said!:thumb:

wondered how folks wold feel if a bicyclist got off their bike and walked past the bus then got back on and kept riding before the cars were allowed to pass. Would that be an infringement in traffic law? I don't think so.
If you are walking the bike, you are a pedestrian.


The bus technically has a stop sign and some states have those laws allowing bikes to carefully roll through a stop sign or red light, wonder if that applies?
No, it would not apply. Note that the school-bus-stop means do not move if the stop sign is out (it doesn't mean stop and then move if it's clear). The intent of the school-bus-stop is that you can't be "careful" enough when moving with children around.


I straddled the bike and with one foot on the bottom pedal and one on the ground, started to push and roll the bike for the exit (note, just rolling at a walking pace, not pedaling).
I suspect that, legally/technically, "straddling" is not "walking the bike".

I'd get off and walk. Actually, I think it's a pretty dumb law to require anyone to stop (just teach kids some basics of road crossing, for chrissake, instead of making them assume that all traffic stops for them). But I don't want to get busted for this. Since this is one of those overenforced laws that involves overprotecting children (oh that sacred cow of the modern Western society!), I think you're far more likely to get busted for this than for rolling a stop sign.


I always wait, since that's required by law, and people do not take that law lightly around here; two kids have been killed by impatient people in the local school districts in the last 10 years and people remember that. I wish they remembered killed cyclists as well. The number is probably higher than two.


I may even stay seated but push with my feet on the ground. Unless you ride a recumbent, your seat is likely too low, if you can accomplish this with ease.

overenforced laws that involves overprotecting children (oh that sacred cow of the modern Western society!)

Apparently it's law for bus drivers to come to a complete stop and open their doors at every single rail crossing - here in rural suburbia, I don't see how coming to a dead stop on a 55mph road is safer than driving through a crossing with its lights off and gates up.

My problems with it is that whatever my expectations may be I don't get treated like a motor vehicle.... Why would I want to act like a car?

Other people's actions do not condone yours.

You're free to operate any vehicle you like in any manner you like, on your own property. The terms of using the public streets is to abide by the applicable laws. If you want to build your own bike path, you can do whatever you like on it.

Since this is one of those overenforced laws that involves overprotecting children (oh that sacred cow of the modern Western society!), I think you're far more likely to get busted for this than for rolling a stop sign.

Don't drive in Japan. If a school kid steps off the sidewalk with their hand up, the onus is on you to stop. How much distance you have and how fast you are going are irrelevant, if you hit one you're in deep sushi.

Apparently it's law for bus drivers to come to a complete stop and open their doors at every single rail crossing - here in rural suburbia, I don't see how coming to a dead stop on a 55mph road is safer than driving through a crossing with its lights off and gates up.

The risk of injury and death (to the bus's passengers) if a full-sized bus is hit from behind by a car is much lower than that if a locomotive (even one with no cars attached) T-bones a bus.

Here's a test video of a train hitting a bus. It's not hard to see why that rule is in effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poomuKzSGZA

Don't drive in Japan. Probably won't. I don't really drive anyway.


If a school kid steps off the sidewalk with their hand up, the onus is on you to stop. How much distance you have and how fast you are going are irrelevant, if you hit one you're in deep sushi. :eek: Wow. How do you know whether it's a school kid or not? Are they supposed to be in a uniform? And why such special treatment for school kids as opposed to all the other pedestrians?

Probably won't. I don't really drive anyway.

:eek: Wow. How do you know whether it's a school kid or not? Are they supposed to be in a uniform? And why such special treatment for school kids as opposed to all the other pedestrians?

If you kill an adult it's okay. If you kill a school child, watch out...

I passed a School Bus that was stopped yesterday morning. I usually stop for them and I feel bad about it but I was running late and it was a strange thing. It stops right in front of me and just sits there with lights flashing and sign out. I look around and I see nobody...I mean nobody. Two minutes go by and It's still sitting there and traffic is backed up. Then across the street down another road i see a middle school kid taking his time walking slowly with pants hanging off his ass and still like 1/4 mile down the road. I could not believe the bus was still waiting so I said screw road past the bus and took off after screaming at the kid. I should not have yelled at the kid, but that bus sat there for four minutes at least. How long are they supposed to wait for someone?

I'd get off and walk. Actually, I think it's a pretty dumb law to require anyone to stop (just teach kids some basics of road crossing, for chrissake, instead of making them assume that all traffic stops for them). But I don't want to get busted for this. Since this is one of those overenforced laws that involves overprotecting children (oh that sacred cow of the modern Western society!), I think you're far more likely to get busted for this than for rolling a stop sign.
Save this post for rereading and contemplation after you have some children of your own. Your lack of empathy is astounding.

I think you misread the post. He said "will pass", not "will hit a child."

Unless you maybe assumed he rides blindfolded....

It's from the same school of thought that running red lights is dangerous. They just don't understand the concept of look-then-ride.

To answer the OP - legal to walk. Personally, I just wait for the bus to load, take a sip of water and a few deep breaths, then proceed when the bus tells me to. I am on a bike because I don't like walking so much.

I passed a School Bus that was stopped yesterday morning. I usually stop for them and I feel bad about it but I was running late and it was a strange thing. It stops right in front of me and just sits there with lights flashing and sign out. ... How long are they supposed to wait for someone?This probably is a violation of their rules. Parent probably complained.

I'm pretty sure my daughter would miss the bus if the driver saw her walking slowly, if she's running they may stop. It used to drive me nuts that the rural parents would wait with their kids in the car and the kids would get ready to exit the car only after the bus had come to a complete stop. I'm sure some of these people go insane if they have to slow 2 seconds for a cyclist.

Save this post for rereading and contemplation after you have some children of your own. Your lack of empathy is astounding. I know what I said sounded very harsh, but I'm not actually a child-hater. I kind of like kiddies and don't want them to be hurt. What's astounding in the modern Western society is the relative lack of empathy for humans in general, as opposed to just the little ones. As apricissimus said, "If you kill an adult it's okay. If you kill a school child, watch out..." Sounds wrong.

Sure, kids are smaller and less experienced, and thus require a bit more protection, but things the way the are today are truly skewed. It doesn't even benefit the little ones either: they become prisoners to all the smothering safety rules. What the society tries to do as hard as possible (and the school bus rule is just a particular illustration of that) is to eliminate absolutely all risk from every child's life. That's not healthy and I'm just grateful that I don't have to be a child today.

Sure, kids are smaller and less experienced, and thus require a bit more protection, but things the way the are today are truly skewed. It doesn't even benefit the little ones either: they become prisoners to all the smothering safety rules.

Do you really think the requirement for vehicles to stop for a stopped school bus, signaling that it is picking up or discharging school children as young as 5 years old, is one of those skewed smothering safety rules? Do you think that it is a skewed rule that just came about recently as a result of do-gooder safety nannyism? I think your observations on this issue are a bit skewed.

No one knows our riding routes beter than us. We get to know what is acceptable and how to ride.

I pass stopped school busses every day on both sides of the road. The drivers and I recognize each other as well as many of the parents waiting with the kids. The high school kids just stand there and bob to music and probably never even notice me.

My point is that everone I deal with on the bus route has a very good grasp of common sense, and use it accordingly.

The risk of injury and death (to the bus's passengers) if a full-sized bus is hit from behind by a car is much lower than that if a locomotive (even one with no cars attached) T-bones a bus.

Yes, but:

The chance of cars coming up behind the bus when it stops is around 80%-100%.

The chance of a train coming up beside the bus at speed, given that the crossing's lights are off and the gates are up, is probably around 0.000001%.

^ Be that as it may, the folks who made the decision decided the risk was unacceptable. I agree with them.

Western? You live in freakin' Canada!

Many people have this perspective and I respect it. My problems with it is that whatever my expectations may be I don't get treated like a motor vehicle. I don't have the capabilities of a motor vehicle and a motor vehicle doesn't have my capabilities. I made a decision to leave my house on a me powered vehicle, a bicycle. Why would I want to act like a car?
Never understood it either. Anyway there is no way i'm waiting for a school bus to load or unload when i'm biking (unless i'm really tiried and need a break). Doesn't mean i blow past it full speed, i usually stop behind it then go.

Sure, kids are smaller and less experienced, and thus require a bit more protection, but things the way the are today are truly skewed. It doesn't even benefit the little ones either: they become prisoners to all the smothering safety rules.

Speaking as a former child, and not one that was smothered with safety rules, I do think that it's important that a school bus be required to meet pretty extreme safety levels. I have no problem coming to a halt when a school bus comes to a full stop and raises its flags.

Why? Not because kids are less experienced, but because kids are on another planet. They can go from paying attention to singlemindely chasing a bug in a flash, without warning. Kids are loose cannons. I surely was. Some may have the judgement, but others like me just did not.

And I agree, there is way too much smothering, by helicopter parents. But I won't go there because I'm a former child, not a parent, so my opinion there doesn't count, except to me.

I frequently encounter a stopped bus and do the dismount and walk thing. I've also pulled up to the side and asked the bus driver if I could proceed and they always say yes.

But that might be because I work at the school they're driving the bus to.

What I don't like doing is waiting in the street behind a stopped school bus. To me, that's dangerous due to the fact that all it takes to ruin my day is to have a driver not see or not care about the stop sign and not see me.

Or ......

http://bikehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/india-school-bus-tricycle.jpg


Walking by the bus is legal.

I love it! A paddy wagon to haul kids to juvenile detention. :roflmao2::love::p:thumb::innocent:

I could use one of those since they cut our field trip budgets.

Apparently it's law for bus drivers to come to a complete stop and open their doors at every single rail crossing - here in rural suburbia, I don't see how coming to a dead stop on a 55mph road is safer than driving through a crossing with its lights off and gates up.Because those railroad crossing signals and gates have been known to fail. Stopping, looking and listening for the train horn can make it a little safer. I do not know if a school bus has ever been smashed due to a signal failure, but I do know a semi-truck once got smashed because the signal and gate failed to work.