Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Rando Support Rules question

The SIR 300k next weekend goes past my house. What are the rules regarding me stopping there for "support"?

These are the only rules that apply, that I can find.

Each rider must be self sufficient. No personal follow cars or support of any kind are permitted on the course. Personal support is only allowed at checkpoints.

If a rider leaves the route, he or she must return to the route at the same point prior to continuing, ie. no shortcuts or detours from the route, unless specified by the organizer.

You are allowed to stop at the store, coffee shop, bike shop, etc. I think stopping at home should be legal. If you called home, and had them run to the store for you, get what you need and have it there for you, that would violate the rules. If you stop home to fill your water, feed your dog, check your email..., that should be o.k.

The SIR 300k next weekend goes past my house. What are the rules regarding me stopping there for "support"?Interesting question - and what about cyclists riding brevets in their own respective riding areas.

Can randonneurs stash lights, clothing, snacks etc... along a route in advance of a Brevet?

I know for the 600k they take drop bags to the 400k mark. I didn't think going to my house would be illegal, but it's not directly addressed.

The SIR 300k next weekend goes past my house. What are the rules regarding me stopping there for "support"?

I think that part of the condition for support between controls (ie. stopping at shops or business along the way and other examples of 'living off the land') is that the support should be generally available to all randonneurs on the ride, so as not to provide an improper advantage to just one rider.

For this reason, cacheing supplies along the route, as Richard suggests is generally frowned upon. You can choose to stop on the route to go to your house, but you probably should also allow and invite the rest of your club to come in, use your bathroom and refill their water bottles ... again, to be fair to your fellow riders ... and, of course, you should return to the route at the point of departure.

you can go anywhere you want under your own power and receive support. The only exception is if the place you are going is your support vehicle. Our last 200k had a controle at one of the rider's houses.

One thing I didn't know is that you aren't supposed to draft a person that is not riding the brevet.

Interesting question - and what about cyclists riding brevets in their own respective riding areas.

Can randonneurs stash lights, clothing, snacks etc... along a route in advance of a Brevet?

We are debating UPSing a care package to our overnight stop on the NE Fleche. Not sure if we'll need it - but if weather looks iffy we might send off some warm (and dry) clothes to the shop we plan on sleeping at... a modern day drop bag?

I think that part of the condition for support between controls (ie. stopping at shops or business along the way and other examples of 'living off the land') is that the support should be generally available to all randonneurs on the ride, so as not to provide an improper advantage to just one rider.

For this reason, cacheing supplies along the route, as Richard suggests is generally frowned upon. You can choose to stop on the route to go to your house, but you probably should also allow and invite the rest of your club to come in, use your bathroom and refill their water bottles ... again, to be fair to your fellow riders ... and, of course, you should return to the route at the point of departure.

I debated this on the Boston 600k when I lived in southern VT. I lived about 4 miles from where the route turned onto East-West Road. Debated using it as a layover or supply point - but didn't feel like adding 8 more miles to the already challenging route.

Can randonneurs stash lights, clothing, snacks etc... along a route in advance of a Brevet?

Yes. It's commonly done ... especially on the brevets up here where everything closes down at 7 pm and doesn't open again till 7 am.

And I plan my 600K route so that it returns to my town at about the 400 km point. Because we don't specify certain restaurants or whatever as a control ... we only specify the town name ... riders can go wherever they want in the town, as long as they return to the route through the town where they left the route.

So if an out-of-town rider on my 600K opted to take a hotel in my town (which makes sense and is advised), the rider could ride over to the hotel when they get here, at the 400 km point, to pick up supplies, shower, nap, etc. And I could ride to my home to do the same thing. If the rider did not opt to take a hotel in my town, the rider could go elsewhere - a 24-hour convenience store, a bar, a restaurant, or whatever was open.

We don't offer bag drops on our brevets ... most prairie brevets here don't ... so this 400 km option on this particular route is kind of like a bag drop.

E-mail SIR. They will give the the official ruling.

for me, a brevet coming close to home would be an all-too-easy way to bail. i'm not strong enough to pass up my warm apt and keept going!

more power to ya if you can withstand quitting at that point, i say.

btw there was a letter in the last RUSA mag about support, and i think it comes down to you can't have planned support outside of controls. but i could be totally wrong on that. contacting SIR is probably the way to go, i'd be interested in the "official" answer.

btw there was a letter in the last RUSA mag about support, and i think it comes down to you can't have planned support outside of controls. but i could be totally wrong on that. contacting SIR is probably the way to go, i'd be interested in the "official" answer.

"Official" for RUSA, or "official" for the rest of the world? They are two different "officials", I've discovered.

RUSA has it's own set of rules which the US riders have to adhere to in order to have their events qualify. Other clubs have different rules. In the UK, the governing body is Audax UK. In Australia it's Audax Australia. In Canada, each individual provincial club is at the same level as RUSA, Audax UK, Audax Australia, etc. because Canadian Randonneurs do not have one central governing body. So up here, if my club decides it's OK to provide support outside of a control, in a certain location, because of the remoteness of our routes or whatever, then that's the "official" rule for our club.

Which brings up the point ... if you're travelling to another place to do a brevet, it is a good idea to find out what the "official" rules for that place are. If the west coast crowd headed up to BC to do a brevet, for example, one of BC's "official rules", which is unique to them, is that riders have to be out of the control by the control closing time. They don't care if you're sleeping on the lawn outside of the control, just as long as you're out. They are the only club I've come across with that rule ... all the others just care about the time you arrive. They don't care when you leave. But other clubs have other "odd" rules.

I'll e-mail SIR, and get back with the verdict.

They don't care if you're sleeping on the lawn outside of the control, just as long as you're out. They are the only club I've come across with that rule ... all the others just care about the time you arrive. They don't care when you leave. But other clubs have other "odd" rules.

Might be to keep the volunteers free to close up and get out...

Here are the Official rules for brevets/randonnees 200K to 1000K:

http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/ ... look under Organisations > BRM Worldwide > Rules

http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/ACP/EN/index.php?showpage=322

I'll e-mail SIR, and get back with the verdict.

Was there a verdict on this? (And how did your ride go?)

I'd always interpreted the RUSA rules to permit you to drop anything you wanted to at a control point at any time before or during the event. Drop bags are allowed, regardless of who drops them or when they're dropped. The key is that it's at a control. But a drop bag cannot be dropped outside a control, by you or anyone else -- not if it is to remain "yours." If you wanted to cache something outside a control known and equally available to everyone, then that ought to be permitted under the rules -- that's receiving neutral support outside a control, which is permitted.

But I wouldn't want to be the guy arguing to an official that I left my bag hidden someplace outside a control and that anyone could have found it and used it if they wanted to.... I think you'd lose that argument for the same reason you'd lose the argument that your crew which serviced you outside a control would have serviced any other rider, had those other riders only asked for help.

The Last Chance 1200K presents one of these self-caching opportunities. If you don't stop at the 700K point and instead opt to make 1000K by the second night, then you face a 110-mile stretch of road in with no services at all. This is a bit daunting for most folks. One solution is to buy supplies at the store in Cope, Colorado on the way out and then leave them there for yourself on the return trip, which splits that long segment nicely in two. The Cope store will be closed when you get to it, but your goodies are there, safely stashed behind the store. (And for other rule aficionados, Cope is a control both directions, even though the store is closed when some riders might arrive there.)

Anyway, that’s my reading, but curious to hear what SIR thought....

Was there a verdict on this? (And how did your ride go?)

I'd always interpreted the RUSA rules to permit you to drop anything you wanted to at a control point at any time before or during the event. Drop bags are allowed, regardless of who drops them or when they're dropped. The key is that it's at a control. But a drop bag cannot be dropped outside a control, by you or anyone else -- not if it is to remain "yours." If you wanted to cache something outside a control known and equally available to everyone, then that ought to be permitted under the rules -- that's receiving neutral support outside a control, which is permitted.

But I wouldn't want to be the guy arguing to an official that I left my bag hidden someplace outside a control and that anyone could have found it and used it if they wanted to.... I think you'd lose that argument for the same reason you'd lose the argument that your crew which serviced you outside a control would have serviced any other rider, had those other riders only asked for help.

The Last Chance 1200K presents one of these self-caching opportunities. If you don't stop at the 700K point and instead opt to make 1000K by the second night, then you face a 110-mile stretch of road in with no services at all. This is a bit daunting for most folks. One solution is to buy supplies at the store in Cope, Colorado on the way out and then leave them there for yourself on the return trip, which splits that long segment nicely in two. The Cope store will be closed when you get to it, but your goodies are there, safely stashed behind the store. (And for other rule aficionados, Cope is a control both directions, even though the store is closed when some riders might arrive there.)

Anyway, that’s my reading, but curious to hear what SIR thought....

We are planning to UPS some goodies to our 2 hour 'sleep' (ha!) stop on the NE Fleche. The control is a bike shop - so we probably won't need worry about bike supplies - but most of us are thinking about clean jerseys / shorts and maybe some magic potion go go energy food that we don't want to lug across VT. I'll watch this space but probably email the RBA, just to be sure.

Was there a verdict on this?

there was no official ruling, but here's part of one of the responses:


I'd be inclined to say that stopping at your house when it isn't a control constitutes personal support. You would be doing us a big favor by not putting us in the position of having to make a formal ruling on it. You can stop at Fairhaven Park to fill your water bottles or use the restroom (I did on the pre-ride).

there was no official ruling, but here's part of one of the responses. . . .

I think I agree with that interpretation. Though I also think that if you announced to everyone that your kids would be staffing a lemonade (and Powerade, and HEED, and Perpetuum...) stand on the route during the ride and that anyone who needed to would be welcome to use your bathroom (and feed your cat and check the mail...) then that would probably be kosher under the RUSA rules. Though I can imagine that some RBAs might not like a rider arranging for neutral services on their route (1) for fear of having to police it to make sure it really is neutral and (2) because it might take away from what they think is a certain character or difficulty of the ride.

I'd think that what bmike's fleche team has in mind would be permitted. If that bike shop is a control on his fleche, then shipping his team stuff there is no different than dropping a bag there. Both should be permitted.

Sorry in being a long time getting back about this. I have been sick for two weeks, which has meant a) no riding, b) no 300k, c) little interest in bikeforums.

Matt summed it up pretty well.

At this point, I have never ridden more than 200k, so with the lost training and 300k, my plans for the spring series are being scrapped. It is very frustrating, but I will keep training and attempt the series either this summer or next spring. I was really looking forward to that 400k route, too.