Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Advice please re distance training program

My apologies. I realize there is already a great deal of discussion on this general subject. However, I would appreciate some specific advice. And sorry for the long post. I guess I'm seeking a diagnosis.

I started out as a competitive distance runner during the Prefontaine / Shorter era when LSD was the regime of the day and we pounded absolutely brutal mileage, often six to seven days a week (my "worst" week was 140 plus miles).

At the age of 35 (I'm now 53), the trainers told me my knees hurt all of the time because I was wearing the pads away. So, I immediately stopped running and switched to cycling and speedskating (5 wheel). My cycling and skating workouts mimicked my earlier running workouts -- a rigorous pace for 45 - 90 minutes. In other words, not much fooling around.

After a move and a cycling hiatus, about 18 months ago, I jumped back on the bike and have been riding with new enthusiasm. I am riding 150-200 miles per week. About four days a week I ride 20-35 miles, again at a rigorous workout pace. I usually incorporate informal intervals, hills, and, sometimes, hill repeats. Ten fast (for me) climbs up the hill to Taliesin West will usually do me in and leave me weakly spinning for the rest of the ride. Then, two-three days a week I ride a singlespeed on a 10-15 mile round trip to the gym for weight room workouts.

Reading this forum has gotten me interested in kicking it up a bit and riding distance, i.e. centuries. I know in order to do that, I need to change how I workout and incorporate longer rides, but I still need to work for a living, so time is always an issue.

So, what can I do to better train for longer rides?

Also, with longer training, when do the on-the-road nutritional demands kick in?

Many Thanks

RFC

In terms of nutrition: The general rule of thumb is about 250 calories (mostly carbs) per hour of riding, 500-750ml of liquid per hour, and obviously you need your electrolytes. It helps to learn how to eat while staying on the bike, so gels (if you can stand them) and energy drinks are a plus.

You may want to get more precise with your liquid intake as follows:
• weigh yourself prior to the ride
• keep track of solid food consumption during the ride
• keep track of liquid consumption during the ride, and convert the ml to lbs
• weigh yourself at the end of the ride
• subtract weight of food consumed

If you've lost weight, then you didn't drink enough. Convert lbs to ml to figure out how much more liquid you need.

The big problem with food is if you've been on the bike long enough (e.g. 8+ hours), you may lose your appetite and/or get tired of all the energy bar / energy drink crap. That takes a bit of trial and error.

I've done pretty well with this book (http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Long-Distance-Cycling-Confidence/dp/1579541992) as an overall starting point for LD tips. The Ultracycling web site (http://www.ultracycling.com/) also has some decent tips, of varying degrees of depth.

Chances are pretty good you'll end up with a typical program of 1 intense day per week, several days at "pace," and a couple of rest days. You'll need an HRM or, if you really want to get technical and money is not an issue, go for a power meter.

Have fun....

I've found that on rides less than two hours I need no food. Over two hours I need food. This isn't a hard limit as there are a lot of variables but two hours is my time generally. You'll find a time for your own metabolism as you experiment.

Later,
HB

Thanks to you both. I tend to agree with the two hour guideline. At the end of two hours of riding, I am very hungry, but haven't bonked.

You only have to bonk once to know to avoid it. For me, it was as a scout leader in my son's troop about seven years ago on a 13 day backpacking trip through Philmont. About half way through, I was so sick of the packaged starchy breakfasts that I, like an idiot, thought I'd skip breakfast to clean out a little. I paid the price about three hours of hiking later as we climbed a steep set of switchbacks.

Reading this forum has gotten me interested in kicking it up a bit and riding distance, i.e. centuries. I know in order to do that, I need to change how I workout and incorporate longer rides, but I still need to work for a living, so time is always an issue. So, what can I do to better train for longer rides?Its difficult to accurately advise anyone about improving their training in general. Its nearly impossible to accurately advise someone to improve their training efficiency.

From the fitness history supplied, I would gather that you understand the necessity of the large volume of exercise necessary to establish and maintain aerobic capacity. And certainly, if you have ever managed several weeks or months of running 100 mile weeks -then you understand the nature of nutrition, rest and recovery.

So putting all that aside, you need to find meaningful parallel training methods between running and cycling in an effort to maximize your potential cycling performance for a given allotment of training volume as dictated by your time constraints.

What's missing here - is any mention of just what kind of performance or "kick it up a notch" you are asking about. Without specifying a goal. Advising you is ridiculous.

In absence of any critical evaluation of your strengths and weaknesses all I can offer is a reminder of the general principles surrounding training volume and performance. In your case, you need to review your performance goals, with respect to your personal evaluation of your aerobic-to-anaerobic capacities.

When you successfully self-evaluate - you can decide where and how to adjust your training volume, either through intensity, or through specific technique drills to achieve your desired goals.

Most likely you're fearing your time spent at sub-maximal levels isn't a "good enough" return on your training investment. But erring on the side of too much intensity over base work will assure staleness and ultimately future injury.

Good luck.

You can ride a century tomorrow, or on any given day. Don't worry about it. Just do it. It's easier than you think. If you go too hard to start with, you'll just dial it back as your legs quit working, but you'll still make it and learn from the experience. Your biggest challenges may be not eating enough in the first two hours and a saddle that isn't as comfortable as you thought. Your training is fine, except that one day a week you might want to ride long. I ride 50-60 miles one day/week all winter, then 70-75 in April, 80-85 miles in May, and then start long rides in June. Except that some years I'll do early season brevets in March/April/May. But 150-200 is enough distance to train you for brevet riding.

So, what can I do to better train for longer rides?

sounds like you have a decent base, but as you up the mileage, remember to keep the pace reasonable.

mentally it takes getting used to not hammering all through a ride, at least for me. practice that by doing 50-60 miles at (what you consider to be) an easy pace.

This is all good advice. And you are right that one of my challenges will be to keep the pace under control.

As a *very* rough analogy, think of a century as being like a marathon. It's not exact, but it should get you thinking in the right ballpark.

As a *very* rough analogy, think of a century as being like a marathon. It's not exact, but it should get you thinking in the right ballpark.

not really.
a double is more like a marathon, having discussed this with several marathoners and cyclists.
the wear and tear on the body is not nearly as dramatic with cycling...

most 'cyclists' should be able to ride a century.
it might take all day and there will be plenty of stops... but most regular riders should be able to complete a flattish course.

keep doing your 1-2 interval or fast sessions per week, since you are already there.
get out for longer rides on the weekend - 60-80 milers. you can work in some good terrain - just don't race over it - its hard to train for long and hard at the same time. a solid base of long steady distance is great for early season. the bigger the base, the higher the peak. when the intensity kicks up, the time should go down. you can certainly do long(ish) rides - maybe 10 miles out to your favorite climb at a touring pace for warm up, then hammer for whatever reps you feel you need, then that 10 mile touring pace back home.

i saw my biggest gains after i had a brevet seasons worth of 'base'. then ramped up 2-3 days a week of hill work and intervals. it set me up for a fast and hilly century and a great fall of shorter rides.

and be sure to work in some rest days, or recovery ride days. i use my fg for errands and recovery rides. i leave the 'bike outfit' in the closet and just spin in street clothes. your body can't rebuild from the hard work it is doing if it doesn't have a chance to rest...

My apologies. I realize there is already a great deal of discussion on this general subject. However, I would appreciate some specific advice. And sorry for the long post. I guess I'm seeking a diagnosis.

I started out as a competitive distance runner during the Prefontaine / Shorter era when LSD was the regime of the day and we pounded absolutely brutal mileage, often six to seven days a week (my "worst" week was 140 plus miles).

At the age of 35 (I'm now 53), the trainers told me my knees hurt all of the time because I was wearing the pads away. So, I immediately stopped running and switched to cycling and speedskating (5 wheel). My cycling and skating workouts mimicked my earlier running workouts -- a rigorous pace for 45 - 90 minutes. In other words, not much fooling around.

After a move and a cycling hiatus, about 18 months ago, I jumped back on the bike and have been riding with new enthusiasm. I am riding 150-200 miles per week. About four days a week I ride 20-35 miles, again at a rigorous workout pace. I usually incorporate informal intervals, hills, and, sometimes, hill repeats. Ten fast (for me) climbs up the hill to Taliesin West will usually do me in and leave me weakly spinning for the rest of the ride. Then, two-three days a week I ride a singlespeed on a 10-15 mile round trip to the gym for weight room workouts.

Reading this forum has gotten me interested in kicking it up a bit and riding distance, i.e. centuries. I know in order to do that, I need to change how I workout and incorporate longer rides, but I still need to work for a living, so time is always an issue.

So, what can I do to better train for longer rides?

Also, with longer training, when do the on-the-road nutritional demands kick in?

Many Thanks

RFC

I think people can generally ride their weekly mileage in a day, subject to decent nutrition and hydration.

The simple answer for you is "ride longer and slower". I'm also somewhat concerned that you are riding hard too many days. You will do better with a bit more rest so that you can work extra hard on your hard days.

Many people get by on rides of 2-3 hours without eating anything, but I don't see much reason for that. I take a hydration drink with me on all my rides, though I don't really go out for less than a couple of hours. If you practice eating/drinking on the short rides, you'll figure out what your stomach can tolerate well, and that will serve you well.

Finally, with your background and current level of fitness, I suggest finding some other riders in your area. I think you'll find that group rides can be lots of fun.

This is all gracious and astute advice.

Many Thanks