Training & Nutrition - Another max heart rate question

I've always wanted to know EXACTLY how max HR should be measured for cyclists.

My main query is: should max HR be measured on the bike, or should it be an 'absolute maximum', which would be acheived doing another activity which uses more muscles, such as cross-country skiing, or running, or maybe one of those weird stepper machines that incorporates upper body resistance?

Let's face it, there's other aerobic activities that work the upper body more than cycling.

When you think about it, most very hard, sustained efforts are performed seated without much upper body work. So, does this mean that the max HR should be tested while seated without much arm use,
or, should the max HR be measured during an up hill sprint, working your arms and shoulders as much as possible?

I'll sum up (again): should the max HR we use as a training reference be a 'cycling maximum', or an 'absolute maximum'?

I always thought max heart rate was just that-max heart rate, no matter how you achieve it whether it is by cycling, running, rowing or any other activity. Might be easier to get there while you are moving your arms around but it is not too hard just by riding hard.

if you cycle take it on your bike, if you run take it running , if you swim take it swimming you will get differant max hrt for each sport.

Check out: http://www.cptips.com/maxhrsc.htm

Has anyone tried a stress test where they try to get you to achieve your true maximum heart rate? I know that the theoretical max heart rate formula is 220 less your age, but the actual max is different. In the stress test on the treadmill, they make you escalate your heart rate at three minute intervals by increasing the speed and incline. When I was in top shape I was only able to reach an actual max rate of 173 when in theory my max should have been 180. Could anyone share your experience?

Check out: http://www.cptips.com/maxhrsc.htm

If this is correct then my polar hrm is way off. I'm 43. According to this table my max rate is 175 or 176. However, on most every ride I hit 190 and sometimes 195. 5 years ago I could top 200.

This sounds right. This is from About.com (http://bicycling.about.com/library/weekly/aa012499.htm):

First, warm up by pedaling easily for 15-30 minutes. Now, increase resisitance to a level that you can still pedal without jumping on the pedals. At 60 second intervals, increase either the gear or the resistance a notch. Continue until exhaustion. Record the highest heart rate you attain. This is your MHR. Another way to find out your MHR is to note the highest heart rate on your monitor when climbing hard for several miles (Use your best judgment here. You're aiming for an all out effort) or riding an all out time-trial for 10 miles.

Moonshot: There are people that do not meet the norm and you apear to be one of them. I have read examples in some of the books I am reading.

It is my experience that it is very difficult to reach your max HR alone whether on a trainer or on a bike, and even more difficult on a trainer. I have reached max HR only in race situations where I thought my legs were on fire and I was goin to passout but I was not going to be beat. You will mentally think you are at this point unless you are in a competitive situation, ie you will give up if you are alone. Even when I was tested for VO2max and max HR, I did not reach the max HR that I had observed racing.

Thanks for the replies

It is my experience that it is very difficult to reach your max HR alone whether on a trainer or on a bike, and even more difficult on a trainer. I have reached max HR only in race situations where I thought my legs were on fire and I was goin to passout but I was not going to be beat. You will mentally think you are at this point unless you are in a competitive situation, ie you will give up if you are alone. Even when I was tested for VO2max and max HR, I did not reach the max HR that I had observed racing.


I agree; I saw my highest max HR whilst sprinting like a maniac to catch a truck driver who nearly killed me (didn't get him -- HR 204). This obviously presented a similar situation: lots of adrenalin.

Infact, I'm gunna start a new thread about training with or without adrenalin. I can't find anything specific on the net.

General formula for a "fit" person - 205 - 1/2 age. Can vary 10 - 20 beats, and some experts state (Edmund Burke, for one) that a person continuously fit may have no decrease in max heart rate with aging.

I go way above the 220-age on most every ride.

General formula for a "fit" person - 205 - 1/2 age. Can vary 10 - 20 beats, and some experts state (Edmund Burke, for one) that a person continuously fit may have no decrease in max heart rate with aging.

I go way above the 220-age on most every ride.

Having started out with 220-42=178 when I first started using my hrm, I eventually changed it each time I established a new max. It is currently set to the highest rate I have hit during a sustained effort. This is much closer to the 205-21=184.
A variance as high as 20 beats can be too much. This formula works for me though.
Now, if only I would only apply this info to the knowledge I would stop exceeding my max %s.

Another person mentioned about riding versus ??? versus standing, etc.
When I'm climbing a hill, after I stand and start hammering my heart rate goes flying high. Not sure if I just don't know how to climb (That's what I think it is), not breathing right (I catch myself not breathing large volumes), or my legs just aren't there.
If you want to know what your max is, this is what I've done. After a substantial warm up, ride a straight section of road for a couple of miles, slowly ramping up the heart rate, followed by a nice hill climb. Keep hammering, again ramping up as you hit the hill to the point where you're starting to shake rattle and roll. You will hit your max and not go more than a beat or two beyond it. Just my opinion.

Trouble: another method for numbers is 205-age-(weightx5%) That gives me theoritical of 179 (49), but my measuerd max on rides is 182 Averaging the 2 I use 181 and use these limits. Each body is different like Denver said. Go with your max and set your workout around this.

if you cycle take it on your bike, if you run take it running , if you swim take it swimming you will get differant max hrt for each sport.

Is it my imagination or does it also vary from day to and at various times of the day.
There are times after work when to reach a certain "max" is impossible.

In the morning when I feel great a "max" for me is 195.

But after work, in the evening there are days when climbing hard - I'm really dying - shaking legs, breath runs out, have to slow, and I look down at high 180's... at that's really it for that time. Seems to rise slower at those times too. (My age is 46).

...snip...In the morning when I feel great a "max" for me is 195. ...snip...(My age is 46).

Your age is 46 and you get a heart rate of 195!!! Yikes! Impressive.

I found it kind of odd that I hit 207 a few months ago going up the hill near my house... I'm 29 years old... I didn;t think it would be able to go up that high... kinda blows out the 220-age, or 200-1/2 age theory... maybe I am abnormal ? is this a good or bad thing ?

jeff

I found it kind of odd that I hit 207 a few months ago going up the hill near my house... I'm 29 years old... I didn;t think it would be able to go up that high... kinda blows out the 220-age, or 200-1/2 age theory... maybe I am abnormal ? is this a good or bad thing ?


Did your heart feel like it was beating 207 beats per minute? If not, it could have been a misreading. Misreadings can occur because of power lines, electrical interference, other HRMS, and other reasons.

Did your heart feel like it was beating 207 beats per minute? If not, it could have been a misreading. Misreadings can occur because of power lines, electrical interference, other HRMS, and other reasons.


it was pumpin pretty good.. the hill in question is 6-8% with a 10% kicker at the top... I was nearly at the top when I looked down and noticed the number... I was riding solo, so no other HRMs... I don;t believe there are any electrical lines on the road....

I also got up to 204 a couple times while running...

jeff

all these tests are baselines.. I have known Cat 2 riders that could not break 160 hr and others who would get up to 210...

My best test for my max heart rate is a short tough hill and go as fast as you can until you literally can't see straight or it feels like your heart is about to jump out of your chest... Take that max and add 5 beats.. That's your max.. To truly reach your max, you technically will pass out.. I have seen people pass out, not advised while riding on the road.. As your fitness progresses getting your HR up will take more effort..

My best test for my max heart rate is a short tough hill and go as fast as you can until you literally can't see straight or it feels like your heart is about to jump out of your chest... Take that max and add 5 beats.. That's your max.. To truly reach your max, you technically will pass out.

Hmmmm, i see. I haven't heard the "add 5 beats" thing -- good stuff.

Usually the point when someone hit's close to max and absolute (when they pass out is usually between 3-5 beats).. If you want to find your true max..

Have some friends over and get on your trainer indoors of course. Have 2 friends on both sides and when you hit about 90-95% of max effort have them start spewing insults at you that get you pissed off to push that final bit and then if you happen to pass out they are there to catch you..

socal, I can see me doing that :eek: Just get my old boss there in a PO mode.

I really cannot see doing that with out proper supervision, especailly at my age 49. In a race I came that close to passing out leading out my sprinter at end of the race. My max was suppose to be 184, I saw 192 on the d/l of the HR when I almost passed out due to 120% effort. :eek: Was not fun!!! :rolleyes: Wife chew my backsides out for that stunt, as I not looking to good when I crossed the finish line.

I picked up a HRM a few weeks ago. I have only had a chance to use it 3 times so far. I am 21 and get into the 190s pretty easily and so far have hit 202. I think that is a bit off as I felt I had a little bit left when I hit it, just ran out of space. When I have time I am going to get out and play around more and also test it running and doing other things. I am in pretty good shape right now, but I will be in a lot better shape when school lets out and I can ride more.

Your age is 46 and you get a heart rate of 195!!! Yikes! Impressive.

Actually I read somewhere (a Sally Edwards Book?) that the max heartrate is more an indication of physical size of the heart than anything else. In other words - a smaller heart has to pump more times for the same volume of blood that a larger heart would move with less beats. The % of max at a given time is the important number...

Anyway, my oddly high heart rates for my age only indicate that I have a small heart...

Don't tell my wife!... :eek: