Tandem Cycling - Different lube for idle chain?

Another newbie question.

Does everyone use the same lube for both chains on your tandem? I was getting acquainted with our new tandem last night and noticed that the factory chain lube was kind of greasy-sticky rather than the oily stuff I've been using on our singles. This got me to thinking about a less "transferable" lube on the idle chain to cut down on the greasy gear tattoos on my calf (I know, for some it's a badge of honor).

On a related note, I suppose I should clean the factory gunk off an apply a fresh "base" lube, right?

Same lubricants for all road bike chains...

Factory stuff is very viscous but is also very good at reducing friction.

As for what to do, there are a couple things:

1. Best protection for your chain = put some solvent on a rag and simply wipe down the outer chain plates and exposed roller surfaces of your new chain.


The lubricant that protect your chain from excess wear resides between the pins and rollers where you can't see it. Therefore, if you make a habit of wiping down your sync and drive chains after each ride you'll keep the outer surfaces of your chain from becoming a grimey mess while allowing that good lube to do it's thing until it really needs to be replaced. Assuming you're starting with a chain that has had the excess grease wiped off the chain, subsequent wipe downs take about 30 seconds: just grab the chains with a terry cloth shop rag in one hand and then back pedal the drive train with your other. That'll take most of the day's gunk off.

2. If you're going to use some other type of lubricant for any other reason, you must get all of the original lubricant off the chain and that requires solvents. If you don't get off a wet lube before applying a dry lube, or visa-versa, you contaminate the new lubricants and end up with a mess. Wet and dry lubes just don't play well together and even some wet-wet and dry-dry combinations don't get along. In either case, the post ride wipe down will still be your best bet for keeping chain crud at bay.

3. What ever you use, don't use too much but be sure it's getting in between the pins and rollers. And whatever you use, just remember to wipe the chains down after each ride. You'll have to gauge how often to clean your chain rings and cassettes based on how much gunk collects on the teeth. However, wiping down the out plates of a chain will help to cut down on excessive gunk build up on those other parts as well.

I have started to use the the teflon grease that comes with S&S couplers as a chain lube, put on a pair of goves and work it in. Seems to be working well and does not pick up a lot of dirt.

I use a Finish Line dry chain lube on my timing chain and good old Tri-Flow on my drivetrain chain. I use the dry lube on the timing chain because it doesn't disperse like wet lube does. When I used triflow on my timing chain - even after wiping it down - I had some get on my rear disc rotor and ruin a set of brake pads. I don't have to worry about this with the dry lube.

My neighbor bought me some chain lude, so he said, for my birthday... I think he was pulling my leg, I had never heard of the brand: K-Y, is this a good choice?

Alright alright... tough day at work... I would like to respectfully recall that last post!

I have started to use the the teflon grease that comes with S&S couplers as a chain lube, put on a pair of goves and work it in. Seems to be working well and does not pick up a lot of dirt.

Let me guess: you light your Fuente Opus X cigars with $10 bills...:thumb:

Seriously though, if you're referring to the Dupont Teflon Bearing Grease that comes packaged in a small 18g white syringe with blue lettering I've got to ask if you've checked on the cost and availability of that stuff. When I last checked it was anywhere from $16 - $30

More info here: http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_greas.htm

Sheldon Brown's website shows that to lube your chain properly it should be taken apart completely then different lubes for pins, plates and rollers. I think the posting was in early April.

As usual Tandemgeek is spot on. However try not to go overboard on the cleaning as my chain got a bit of surface rust when I overdid it. Best to leave a bit of protective oilyness on it.

Regarding cleaning and oiling chains, there are as many approaches as there are political parties, all with similar strengths of feeling. In my experience there is no best way. If you live in London where it's damp and cool then a wettish oil plus the Park Tool cleaning kit works. Purple extreme seems the racer's oil of choice at the moment although I have not yet tried it. If you live in dry hot and dusty Arizona like Zonatandem (Rudy) then boiling the chain in a secret mix of beeswax, parafin wax, graphite, teflon and other secret ingredients seems to work.

There are also lots of schemes to extend cassette life and other stuff, e.g. by rotating 3 different chains. However I have reached the point in life where I have a bit less riding time than I would like so don't ride mega miles on the tandem and have given up worrying. Easiest to just keep it the chain reasonably clean, well oiled and replace if necessary.

I am currently trying out this stuff: http://www.chain-l.com/

However try not to go overboard on the cleaning as my chain got a bit of surface rust when I overdid it. Best to leave a bit of protective oilyness on it.

+1

To be clear, only use the solvent for that initial surface cleaning of the chain. For the subsequent post ride wipe downs just use a dry terry cloth shop rag as that will leave the all important film of grease that helps to keep surface rust at bay. And, no worries about having enough grease left on the chain to create that film residue as the chain will leach excess grease out of the pins and rollers for at least the first few hundred miles which is wny those early post ride wipe downs are so important IF you want to keep the crud at bay.

Alright alright... tough day at work... I would like to respectfully recall that last post!You realized it was for TOAST right?;)

Our way for keeping chains clean/lubricated (and avoiding tattoo) is the parafin wax method.
Been using it for 30+ years and works great for us.
Remove chains and clean in favorite solvent/degreaser. Wipe 'em down and let dry.
We use a one burner electric hotplate (outside, not in the house). In a large metal coffee can on the burner plate we drop in a couple chunks of canning wax (parafin). Some folks add other stuff like a bit if powdered graphite. Let the wax melt. Slowly/carefully drop in one chain and let it sit in the melted wax for several minutes. Remove chain with long handled pliers; avoid getting splashed by the liquid wax and don't touch the chain. Hang chain to dry.
Repeat with the next chain.
After chain is cooled off we wipe it with a rag and that'll get some of the excess wax off chain plates. Re-install chains.
For the next couple days you may see some blackish flakes (dried wax) on the chainstay. Just wipe it off.
Don't throw out the wax in the coffee can; it can be re-used several times before it needs to be replaced. Cheap and efficient.
With the wax method you get the lubricant where it needs to be: around the pins in chain. When chains cools, wax solidifies and makes for nice greaseless chain. No chain tattoos.
In a super dry climate like in the Sonoroan desert in Arizona, we can easily get around 3,000 miles off chain before re-waxing. In wetter climates you may need to re-wax a bit more often. If you hear the slightest squeak . . . re-wax chain.
It may not be as hi-tech and pricey as some of these magic lubes, but it does the job extremely well.
It worked well for us when we lived in cold/wet Michigan and even better in warm/dry Arizona.
Just our experience.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

White lightning is just parafin suspended in a solvent that evaporates leaving behind just the wax according to my friend with a PHD in chemistry.
Used it for a few years before switching to Prolink.
Didn't like the wax buildup on the cassette but it did leave a fairly clean chain.

Let me guess: you light your Fuente Opus X cigars with $10 bills...:thumb:

Seriously though, if you're referring to the Dupont Teflon Bearing Grease that comes packaged in a small 18g white syringe with blue lettering I've got to ask if you've checked on the cost and availability of that stuff. When I last checked it was anywhere from $16 - $30

More info here: http://www.sandsmachine.com/ac_greas.htm

I have to agree agree with you this could become an expensive habit which could put a serious dent in my cigar lighting budget. I was using some pool o'ring grease this weekend and noticed the main ingrediant in it is the same as that in the S&S lube. I will give that a go next time. I like the idea that this stuff has some body to it, does not seam to pick up much dirt, doesn't leave a black mark on everything it contacts and eliminates the new concern of lube flying onto disc brakes. Weather it actually works or not remains to be seen, working it into the rollers is somewhat questionable.

Back to cigar time

Sheldon Brown's website shows that to lube your chain properly it should be taken apart completely then different lubes for pins, plates and rollers.

That comes from Sheldon's bicycle humor pages which are a must read. Rather than the like to just the "ShelBroCo Chain Cleaning System" page, here's a link to his entire bicycle humor index.
http://sheldonbrown.com/humor/index.html

RIP, Sheldon.

Cheap and inexperienced, but... Sounds like the recurring theme in this thread is:

Lubricate your chains regularly. Method or product is not as critical as the fact you actually lubricate your chains.

Yup,lubrication is key.
Orignal question was about lube that did not leave 'tattoo'.

Yup,lubrication is key.
Orignal question was about lube that did not leave 'tattoo'.

Thanks for the clarification, I did read that, but then got all wrapped up in the discussion. It was good to read the thread though, so much civility and no one bashing anyone's techniques.

Maybe I'm just messy, but if I don't get some grime from the tandem riding, standing, loading, unloading, I'm just not trying hard enough.

Our way for keeping chains clean/lubricated (and avoiding tattoo) is the parafin wax method.
Been using it for 30+ years and works great for us.
Remove chains and clean in favorite solvent/degreaser. Wipe 'em down and let dry.
We use a one burner electric hotplate (outside, not in the house). In a large metal coffee can on the burner plate we drop in a couple chunks of canning wax (parafin). Some folks add other stuff like a bit if powdered graphite. Let the wax melt. Slowly/carefully drop in one chain and let it sit in the melted wax for several minutes. Remove chain with long handled pliers; avoid getting splashed by the liquid wax and don't touch the chain. Hang chain to dry.
Repeat with the next chain.
After chain is cooled off we wipe it with a rag and that'll get some of the excess wax off chain plates. Re-install chains.
For the next couple days you may see some blackish flakes (dried wax) on the chainstay. Just wipe it off.
Don't throw out the wax in the coffee can; it can be re-used several times before it needs to be replaced. Cheap and efficient.
With the wax method you get the lubricant where it needs to be: around the pins in chain. When chains cools, wax solidifies and makes for nice greaseless chain. No chain tattoos.
In a super dry climate like in the Sonoroan desert in Arizona, we can easily get around 3,000 miles off chain before re-waxing. In wetter climates you may need to re-wax a bit more often. If you hear the slightest squeak . . . re-wax chain.
It may not be as hi-tech and pricey as some of these magic lubes, but it does the job extremely well.
It worked well for us when we lived in cold/wet Michigan and even better in warm/dry Arizona.
Just our experience.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Is there an incantation that goes with that?

Is there an incantation that goes with that?

Yes...

Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble. Fillet of a fenny snake, In the caldron boil and bake; Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,— For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

http://www.thetandemlink.com/pictures/frydaddy.jpg

Or, when not vexing demons: lots of gulf wax, a dollop of petrolatum, a splash of mineral oil then season with bees wax, powdered Teflon or graphite to taste.

http://www.thetandemlink.com/pictures/frydaddy2.jpg

I want to say that my 'brew' (see here plucked from the caldron) was last refreshed about 4 years ago. I just scrape off the bottom of the block every once and a while to remove the sediments that settle to the bottom before the wax cools.

I'm hijacking my own thread with another newbie question, this time about cleaning the sync chain.

I've always used one of those "clean chain while on bike" cleaning things on the singles with pretty good results (I'm not looking to start a "which is better discussion"), but last night I relized that there probably isn't enough slack in the sync chain to use the contraption. Other than taking the chain off and using the Sheldon Brown bottle shake method has anyone devised a way to clean the sync chain while still on the bike?

DCwom

...has anyone devised a way to clean the sync chain while still on the bike?

No, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

With just the right amount of slack in the sync chain and a little practice you can by-pass the normal sync chain removal process and derail it by hand, albeit taking care not to grind your fingers between the chain and timing rings.

This first YouTube video shows the chain being removed / reinstalled on our '98 Erickson with that little extra slack: we use 34t timing rings. The rough sounding turn of the cranks was caused by the chain running across the rear hub's cassette carrier as there was no cassette installed on this tandem when I did the quick and dirty demo. Note that I keep my hand far back and away from the timing ring during the process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJbDQnt6S4

This second YouTube video shows the chain being removed / reinstalled on our '07 Calfee without that little extra slack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tOUGf9LT0c

Again, 34t timing rings and that little 'pop' you hear is the extent of the binding that occurs when you don't use the little extra slack in the sync chain. The worst thing I've ever seen as a result of 'ripping off' a chain this way even on a somewhat tight sync chain is a nicked timing ring tooth which had no ill effects and was eventually filed flat.

Please don't take this as encouragement to step beyond your comfort zone when working on your tandem. I just wanted to take this opportunity to demonstrate what several of us have mentioned as a 'technique' that is useful for field repair, experimenting with In-Phase / Out-of-Phase settings mid-ride, and for the lazy and slovenly home mechanic, a way to remove the chain for cleaning or other bike maintenance.

Pulling the crank by fitting self extracting bolts takes about a 10 seconds once you have the wrench in your hand: they're a must have on all of our tandems, travel or not.

Loosening the an eccentric doesn't usually take too much time once you have it down either.

Yes...

Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble. Fillet of a fenny snake, In the caldron boil and bake; Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and owlet's wing,— For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

http://www.thetandemlink.com/pictures/frydaddy.jpg

Or, when not vexing demons: lots of gulf wax, a dollop of petrolatum, a splash of mineral oil then season with bees wax, powdered Teflon or graphite to taste.

http://www.thetandemlink.com/pictures/frydaddy2.jpg

I want to say that my 'brew' (see here plucked from the caldron) was last refreshed about 4 years ago. I just scrape off the bottom of the block every once and a while to remove the sediments that settle to the bottom before the wax cools.

Oh wow! That is old school! I used to do that back in the 1980's. :D

O
We use a one burner electric hotplate (outside, not in the house).

This is a key instruction when dealing with wax. In my younger days while working with soil samples, we would seal tubes with wax for transport. I can't count the number of times that we sent melting pots 50 feet into the air like rockets. :D

No, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

With just the right amount of slack in the sync chain and a little practice you can by-pass the normal sync chain removal process and derail it by hand...

Yowza, if a picture is worth a 1000 words then a video is worth 10,000. I've always been concerned about chain stretch or other damage. I have to say seeing it done on a Calfee makes it seem a lot less scary

Oh wow! That is old school! I used to do that back in the 1980's. :D

I started in the 70's so, yeah.... old school to be sure.

In fact, some may recall when you could buy pre-packaged 'Chain Wax" in a nifty little blue and white or black can. I almost bought up the rights to that stuff but opted to pass as products like White Lightning were just starting to come on the market. In retrospect, I probably should have bought the rights and changed the business model to low-volume / high price given how much folks spend on all of these fancy lubricants, cleaning devices and what not. Cest la vie.

No incantation needed . . .
But you can sing "Daisy, Daisy . . . "
Thanx TandemGeek for the photos so folks can get a visual and not think we are halucinating all this stuff.
Had a German friend back in the early 70s that actually did his chains in Crisco (a vegetable based
white solid) for frying/baking.
Curious: has anyone used Crisco Canola oil???? It's even cholesterol free!

My mom would help me melt the gulf wax on the stove.
If i remember correctly it did a great job. My wife would probably have a cow if i did that today.
Also, using a chain tool was not the No No it is today.