Living Car Free - A rant... isn't there more than one solution to carefree?

This is really more of a rant than anything else that was brought on my some recent posts. I just don’t understand a couple things.

I always see posts along the lines of “well, just get out of the suburbs, move to the city center and ride your bike to work, the store etc..” blah blah blah.

I love this section of the fora, I really do and other than the touring page I don’t look too much at the rest. But honestly what gives? Is there no middle ground? I get the feeling now and then around here that if you are bike free one must stick to this urban, very hip, democratic, socialist, what ever label. But I see so many here that are not that. Why is this the only answer for a lot of people?

I live in the suburbs of DC. I don’t want to live in the city. Yep, I work in the city. I have a 20.3 mile one way trip in and yep I am car free. There a few like me that I see on the trails, and roads year round. Some ever travel much further in distance. I am not left nor right in my politics (If I could create a party I would call it the Common sense party) I have to dress nice for work (i.e. suits, ties etc.)

I suppose I am bothered by some of my fellow care free posters as they seem to preach change for this and that but they can’t get it out of there heads that there are thousands of ways to approach a topic.

Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)

Bless those that do the urban city thing. In DC there are great areas for living well. But why can’t some of us understand that most of these suburban areas were actually outlaying villages that got swallowed up in the sprawl and have some stuff to offer also?


Sorry so long and I will back to the shadows again now

Some good points.

Although someone doesn't *have to* live in a downtown to be car-free, (I sure don't), for most people contemplating a car-free lifestyle, it probably makes things a lot more convenient, walkable, & bikeable in an urban setting. But, there are many neighborhoods of large, medium, small, towns, (and even some suburban areas) which could support car-free living. Looks like you've found yourself a good little location.

Though there is an "image" that in order for one to be car free, one must be vegan/vegitarian, live in a run down area in a large city, be single w/o dependents, and have a large amount of descretionary income, there are a lot of us (including myself) who do not fit this stereotype.

You also have that nice rails-to-trails path and the not so nice I-66 mitigation path to ride into downtown. Without those your commute would stink wouldn't it? I had my recumbent serviced at bikes at vienna a year or so ago, the guys at the shop offered to pick me up at the metro, when I told them I'm car free. The local bike shop guys thought the few mile ride from the metro was too annoying for a car free cyclist. You might have a mis impression. It seems to me people on lcf advise people who complain about their location to be proactive and move to a better location. Do you think we advise people who enjoy being car free, to move? But, I agree that just because some one perceives their location to be bad for car-free living doesn't make it so. Especially if they hadn't gotten out and tried it. I perceive Vienna to be bad for car-free because when I cycle on Maple ave. or get too far from the trail it sucks. The bike shop guys apparently think so too. But, I haven't tried living out there without a car. Next time I ride out there I might explore a bit more thanks to your post.

I'm working more and more toward car free and I live in the 'burbs. I'm within 1.5 miles of the grocery store, my daughter goes to school about three or four blocks from our house, and I ride the bus to my job downtown three days out of the week.

It is possible to be car free where I'm at, but most people I know couldn't even imagine it. One of those people is my wife, so perhaps I'll get to car-lite someday.

I think people with the most insulated view are those without children. I would be happy to move to downtown if I didn't care about my daughter being able to attend college someday.

There are many possible ways to live carfree. Many of them just require creative solutions and tenacity.

Gee, and I thought the stereo-type I had was bum or DUI at least according to the roadies and commuters, as I carry my shopping bags on my bars and don't use a helmet. Also I ride vintage bikes that are cheap and plentiful and I would never spend the kind of money the commuters spend on their fred mobiles, like the guy at the coffee shop with a Surly that must have cost well over a grand with a seat post over a foot long and me with a Raleigh sports that cost me $45. I have lived car free all my life, no license to drive ever. I'm not a vegan or an anarchist or a hipster. I think if you like bikes and can live where you want who cares. I'm not out to win the green sweepstakes and I respect your right to live your life in the "burbs". I live in a small city but I could manage living farther out if I wanted.

I'm a Libertarian and environmentalist. At this time in humanity's evolution those two don't really fit. There are too many people willing to pollute the world while making a profit.

All of the solutions to the problems of suburban living and commuting already exist. It is just that government and most people aren't willing to create mass transit systems that are comprehensive. Until that time, it is up to each individual to create their own transportation solution and lead by example.

Keep spreading the good word that there are transportation alternatives to owning cars and eventually there will be enough people willing to vote for better mass transit systems. Unfortunately that won't happen for another decade or two unless there is some nation wide catastrophe that forces the change upon us. Right now all of us can vote with our dollars by not buying cars. If one does have a car it won't need to be replaced as often in time if one just rides a bicycle or uses mass transit for some transportation needs.

I completely agree with the OP. While car-free, I am not evangelical about it and don't believe that it would work for all individuals in all settings. I think you should do what works for you. I basically do it for economic reasons -- I am cheap. I also don't align myself with the left-wing political bias of this subforum, although I don't consider myself "right-wing" or conservative either.

This is really more of a rant than anything else that was brought on my some recent posts. I just don’t understand a couple things.

I always see posts along the lines of “well, just get out of the suburbs, move to the city center and ride your bike to work, the store etc..” blah blah blah.

I love this section of the fora, I really do and other than the touring page I don’t look too much at the rest. But honestly what gives? Is there no middle ground? I get the feeling now and then around here that if you are bike free one must stick to this urban, very hip, democratic, socialist, what ever label. But I see so many here that are not that. Why is this the only answer for a lot of people?

You are probably refer to the "other side of the coin" of the lifestyles people elect to live. This side is one where the extreme opposite of the gas-guzzling, Hummer/SUV driving, wasteful population resides. These people believe that we all must recycle all the time and all circumstances right down to the bones of our cremated loved ones. A more realistic approach is to be balanced in living our lives to the fullest.



I live in the suburbs of DC. I don’t want to live in the city. Yep, I work in the city. I have a 20.3 mile one way trip in and yep I am car free. There a few like me that I see on the trails, and roads year round. Some ever travel much further in distance. I am not left nor right in my politics (If I could create a party I would call it the Common sense party) I have to dress nice for work (i.e. suits, ties etc.)

I suppose I am bothered by some of my fellow care free posters as they seem to preach change for this and that but they can’t get it out of there heads that there are thousands of ways to approach a topic.


In your own case, this means to keep on living in the suburbs if that is a good choice for you at present and in the forseeable future. If you can afford to live there without going into so extreme debt that you cannot put food on the table or clothes on your back to impress the neighbors, then you are living a sane, balanced life indeed. If you are happy and content, screw other people's opinion.



Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)

Bless those that do the urban city thing. In DC there are great areas for living well. But why can’t some of us understand that most of these suburban areas were actually outlaying villages that got swallowed up in the sprawl and have some stuff to offer also?


Sorry so long and I will back to the shadows again now


Your community sounds like a sane and rather happy place to live. The worries of urban living (crime, stores moving away, gang violence, etc.) does not touch you there. Stay there.

I live in the suburbs of DC. I don’t want to live in the city. Yep, I work in the city. I have a 20.3 mile one way trip in and yep I am car free.

Some folks can do that. For me, it's not viable. I've had arthritis since I was 16. Some situations will literally cause me to collapse in pain... like dismounting a diamond frame bike. There are some real hard and fast limits on what I can do. We've stayed car free due to careful planning.

If someone is thinking about car free, it's very important that they be realistic about what their limits are. A mom with 3 kids under six will have very different limits than a single guy... and in a lot of situations, her limits will be more forgiving than mine. In others, I win because there's just me, and I am not a two year old :D. 90% of the time, the single guy will have even more flex than us women... being able to haul 70 lbs in a backpack is a real advantage! Machka or Rowan will make the average single guy look bad, mostly due to experience and many thousands of miles in the legs.

My hope is that everyone who edges into using cars less makes changes that they stick with :). Even if the first step is small... once you make that first step, it's easy to see another one you could make. That's why I try to make it clear that the choices we've made are based around my limits. If an arthritic 30something can do it, most anyone can.

(so far, I've converted a sister and have two friends experimenting to learn what they can do with their bikes...)

Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)

The key to having any success with ditching the car is to live in a "neighborhood". You need to have a grocery store that is easily accessible by bicycle and of course it helps to have an LBS, a library, and video , hardware stores.

For cycling this neighbourhood needs to have some reasonable streets, best laid out in a grid shape so that not all traffic (99% cars...) have to crowd onto major thoroughfares to go anywhere.

I think we all admit that this is often found in city centers, but there are many city centers that have no easy access to groceries... a major problem. On the other hand, there are many suburbs and exurbs that absolutely require a car to get even a loaf of bread. You couldn't survive on a bicycle-only diet.

I always see posts along the lines of “well, just get out of the suburbs, move to the city center and ride your bike to work, the store etc..” blah blah blah.

I love this section of the fora, I really do and other than the touring page I don’t look too much at the rest. But honestly what gives? Is there no middle ground? I get the feeling now and then around here that if you are bike free one must stick to this urban, very hip, democratic, socialist, what ever label. But I see so many here that are not that. Why is this the only answer for a lot of people?

so long and I will back to the shadows again now

Me very hip? I don't see these posts telling people they have to be hip or whatever label. I've seen posts by car culture apologists trying to label car free people but not car free people telling others that they have to be urban hipsters. When you ride into DC don't you see all the geeky policy wonks on their hybrids or the immigrants on their cheapo bikes?

Why stay in the shadows? Why not post about how when you go on vacation you find secure bike parking at Dulles airport and stuff like that? Maybe other car free people would accept jobs out in Vienna and build up a car free community there. I'd like to know how to get to Dulles and park my bike, I usually take the super shuttle or bike to National when I fly. Also tips on biking to the mall at Tysons would be helpful, every time I bike there it's scary. Tips on biking in that environment would carry over on a national level. I've thought of biking on the median, does that work?

Of course you don't have to live in the middle of the city to be car-ownership-free. I would hate living in the middle of the city.

When I was car-ownership-free, I lived right on the outskirts of Winnipeg. A 5-minute ride, and I was outside the city and in the country. I had a grocery store 1 km from where I lived, and that's where I walked to get my groceries a couple times a week. My church was about 3 km away ... a nice walk on a Sunday morning. My Dr was also about 3 km away. I had two malls within easy bussing distance. My physiotherapist was about 200 metres away, my suntan place was about 500 metres away. And my job was 6.7 km away ... a very easy cycling distance.

If I had to go further, than my neighborhood, I would either cycle the distance ... a park I liked cycling in was only 50 km away ... made for a great weekend century. Or I would ride the bus if I needed to. Simple!!

And also ...

My husband, Rowan lived for years in a suburb near the outskirts of Hobart, and was car-ownership-free. He worked a fair distance from his home, and cycled there. Otherwise, most of the places he needed to go (shopping etc.) were all in his neighborhood.

More recently, Rowan moved to the country. He's been living in the country for about the past 3-4 years. And up till very recently, he had been cycling to work about 8 km away, and cycling to do his shopping about 25 km away.

So not only do you not have to live in the downtown of a city in order to be car-ownership-free, you can live in the country.

There has to be trade offs somewhere, you can;t have it all.


Besides, density alone will not foster an easier car free lifestyle. You need walkability, density, and other factors like zoning, etc. An ideal place would be a place whee there is mixed-use zoning(that is, retail and residential are side by side, if not occupying the same space) with grid street patterns(natural traffic calming effects, many alternative routes) as opposed to the big box retail zoning and arterial road setup.

These places usually surround the downtown area and used to be considered as suburbs before WWII, when the contemporary suburbs began growing everywhere.

There has to be trade offs somewhere, you can;t have it all.


Why can't you have it all? Read my post above.

Near my metropolis, there are several rings of suburbs. There are people that commute via bike here from another state (~15-20mi in). There are people that commute in via bike from the outer 'burbs. There are people that have chosen to live closer to the downtown area or the city neighborhoods. I think there are a variety of situations where being car-free or car-lite is entirely feasible. There is no one answer.

In my city you couldn't live car free in the center of the city, there is almost nothing there anymore. I was a few miles out and there was nothing but houses and houses and houses. It wasn't until I moved to the suburbs that I could actually reach a grocery store or resturaunt or work within a mile of home. Some cities are deisgned poorly, over the last few years I saw our downtown turn into a ghost town after 5pm when all the big office buildings would empty out.
Our city put out this big report on how "green" it is too, highlighted all the bike paths, but if you overlay those onto a map you will see all the bike pathes are in suburb land, the actual city doesn't have any, they were all paid for and built by the suburbs.

Car-free simply means without a car.

Everything else is simply personal preference for the many techniques of implementing that.

Don't confuse the two.

No one says you have have to move, or ride a bike. Those are things some of us have done, but no one says you have to do these things in order to be car-free. Living car-free means only that--living without a car. Whether, how and where you do it is up to you.

Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)


I am on the opposite end of town (so the nearest Metro station is ~5 miles away - the Dulles extension will change that though), but I would say that this town has grown on me in the time I have been here. I haven't gone car-free yet, but you serve as an example to the rest of us..

In my city, downtown isn't the best choice to be carfree (although it is feasible to live there without a car, of course). There are like 30 restaurants in downtown Lansing, 28 of which close by 3:00 PM. There's no grocery, hardware or even bookstore. There are a tiny drugstore and an LBS.

Some suburbs (Holt, Okemos, even E. Lansing) would be good here, others (Delhi, Haslett) have lousy density and trafic patterns for bikes. All are feasible for carfree cycling, and almost all have bus service.

I think a small town is another good location for carfree cycling. The caveat is that you would probably have to work (or go to school) in the same town you live in. Bus or train service to a city and an airport would also be very desirable in a small town, IMO.

the point is, there are many places where one can live a good carfree life. some imagination and flexbility may be required to make it work for you. I believe that there are a small number of places, especially in North America, where carfree cycling would be a difficult choice. Rural areas come to mind, and exurbs where there is no mass transit and locations are very distant.

Why can't you have it all? Read my post above.

Well, one thing you're lacking is a car.

In my city you couldn't live car free in the center of the city, there is almost nothing there anymore. I was a few miles out and there was nothing but houses and houses and houses. It wasn't until I moved to the suburbs that I could actually reach a grocery store or resturaunt or work within a mile of home. Some cities are deisgned poorly, over the last few years I saw our downtown turn into a ghost town after 5pm when all the big office buildings would empty out.
Our city put out this big report on how "green" it is too, highlighted all the bike paths, but if you overlay those onto a map you will see all the bike pathes are in suburb land, the actual city doesn't have any, they were all paid for and built by the suburbs.

Where is this?

Well, one thing you're lacking is a car.

Yes! :D No hassles, no money pit ...

That's like saying a person is lacking migraine headaches.

In order for a car-free or car-light lifestyle to work, one needs a few basic conditions.

1. Reasonably close access to work, shopping, entertainment and the like OR a good public transportation network to such places. (A rural farm or cabin 100 kilometres from the nearest services is probably not a suitable place for car-free living.)

2. A job that does not require a car. (Travelling medical or technical support services, some sales positions, various jobs in journalism, musical entertainment and other jobs will require a car for a number of reasons.)

3. A level of physical health good enough to allow for cycling and walking on a daily basis. (There are a number of chronic conditions which impede movement.)

4. An attitude that accepts and embraces a car-free or car-light lifestyle. (Even if all other conditions are in place to allow car-free or car-light living, some simply can't grasp the concept of such a way of living.)

The key to having any success with ditching the car is to live in a "neighborhood". You need to have a grocery store that is easily accessible by bicycle and of course it helps to have an LBS, a library, and video , hardware stores.

For cycling this neighbourhood needs to have some reasonable streets, best laid out in a grid shape so that not all traffic (99% cars...) have to crowd onto major thoroughfares to go anywhere.

I think we all admit that this is often found in city centers, but there are many city centers that have no easy access to groceries... a major problem. On the other hand, there are many suburbs and exurbs that absolutely require a car to get even a loaf of bread. You couldn't survive on a bicycle-only diet.




I think people with the most insulated view are those without children. I would be happy to move to downtown if I didn't care about my daughter being able to attend college someday.


Some parents are finding that location of residence comes into play even when they are renting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/realestate/05Cov.html

Of course the idea that people may rationally choose a residence based on considerations other than bicycling opportunities but rather family oriented issues such as desirable school districts never seems to enters the mind of some of the more provincial car free zealots.

Right now all of us can vote with our dollars by not buying cars.

Actually it appears we can't because when we do the gub'ment hands over the money anyway.

That's gotta irk your libertarian/environmentalist ideals (I know it does mine).

Some parents are finding that location of residence comes into play even when they are renting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/realestate/05Cov.html

Of course the idea that people may rationally choose a residence based on considerations other than bicycling opportunities but rather family oriented issues such as desirable school districts never seems to enters the mind of some of the more provincial car free zealots.
Of course your choice of residence has to be decided in consideration of many factors. Single people probably have fewer of these factors... but they are not immune to some either... like proximity to family, job, services. For families with children, there are a few more factors... schools, safe places to play.

I know that we sometimes read posts here where folks will say "Hey... I'm moving to Portland so I can be carfree."

I suspect that even in those cases we are seeing only one of the decision factors. It's probably the case that these people are young, no children, not tied to a particular career or job... they may also be hoping to get away from their family and find new friends.

The carfree aspect is naturally just one considerration, even for the most provincial carfree zealot. Of course you read about it here... because here's where we talk about the carfree decision factors. If you want to read about schools or family or whatever, you'd head over to some other forum.

No?

Of course your choice of residence has to be decided in consideration of many factors. Single people probably have fewer of these factors... but they are not immune to some either... like proximity to family, job, services. For families with children, there are a few more factors... schools, safe places to play.

I know that we sometimes read posts here where folks will say "Hey... I'm moving to Portland so I can be carfree."

I suspect that even in those cases we are seeing only one of the decision factors. It's probably the case that these people are young, no children, not tied to a particular career or job... they may also be hoping to get away from their family and find new friends.

The carfree aspect is naturally just one considerration, even for the most provincial carfree zealot. Of course you read about it here... because here's where we talk about the carfree decision factors. If you want to read about schools or family or whatever, you'd head over to some other forum.

No?

Yes; but - this list is also the place where some posters post messages about how easy it would be for almost everybody else to either go car free, or just pick up and move to a place where they could/should be car free, like the happy go lucky zealots/ideologues posting such provincial observations.

Yes; but - this list is also the place where some posters post messages about how easy it would be for almost everybody else to either go car free, or just pick up and move to a place where they could/should be car free, like the happy go lucky zealots/ideologues posting such provincial observations.
I suppose this does happen.

I guess we should have a sign right over the front door. "All posts IMHO". I know I take almost every thing I read on BF (for that matter, everything I read on the Internet...) with a grain of salt. For LCF or any other forum you can get a good idea of "best practices" or good ideas by getting a consensus from many, many posts.

But you also need to compare that consensus with what you experience in your personal life. For example, if I read 10 posters telling me I should pick and head for Portland, I nod, but I don't pack my bags. Not that it wouldn't be a good idea for many folks who visit LCF, but maybe not for me. I assume the same for everyone else here.

This is really more of a rant than anything else that was brought on my some recent posts. I just don’t understand a couple things.

I always see posts along the lines of “well, just get out of the suburbs, move to the city center and ride your bike to work, the store etc..” blah blah blah.

I love this section of the fora, I really do and other than the touring page I don’t look too much at the rest. But honestly what gives? Is there no middle ground? I get the feeling now and then around here that if you are bike free one must stick to this urban, very hip, democratic, socialist, what ever label. But I see so many here that are not that. Why is this the only answer for a lot of people?

I live in the suburbs of DC. I don’t want to live in the city. Yep, I work in the city. I have a 20.3 mile one way trip in and yep I am car free. There a few like me that I see on the trails, and roads year round. Some ever travel much further in distance. I am not left nor right in my politics (If I could create a party I would call it the Common sense party) I have to dress nice for work (i.e. suits, ties etc.)

I suppose I am bothered by some of my fellow care free posters as they seem to preach change for this and that but they can’t get it out of there heads that there are thousands of ways to approach a topic.

Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)

Bless those that do the urban city thing. In DC there are great areas for living well. But why can’t some of us understand that most of these suburban areas were actually outlaying villages that got swallowed up in the sprawl and have some stuff to offer also?


Sorry so long and I will back to the shadows again now

multi modal transport is pretty darn cool
trains in particular
i think its great to ride your bike to the train station and tour all over.
i've never been to Europe, etc.. so i can only imagine what thats like.

work in the city
and live in the suburbs
with a 20 mile one way trip
SoCal is totally crazy
i'd be amazed if you could get out of Los Angeles in 20 miles. (other than going to Catalina)
the biggest greenest spot in LA is Forest Lawn Cemetery (maybe I'm wrong) but it sure looks like it.

personally I don't like cities
much less megacities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megacity)... (based on my experience with cities, which is mostly Ca cities, mega cities, LA, and maybe SF falls into this category, not sure of the pop of SF)
the topic of MegaCities alone is amazing!

Arcata, Ca is awesome. i really dig it there, too bad the job scene is so bleak.
Santa Cruz, Ca is also awesome
Santa Barbara? a little bit too LA for me, but it does have Amtrak that goes right into LA
Ventura, Ca? i grew up there, its a nice "beach town" (i guess), but its way too crowded for my liking. the houses begin to look like barracks to me, complete with a duty schedule, etc...

so i guess, it kind of comes down to the Community.
I would imagine there is a mega city somewhere, that is full of "villages" where it may be nice to live... maybe.

for me personally, I've done a fair amount of researching that "perfect blend" of climate, bicycle facility, natural settings, jobs, crime rate, local clubs, the racing scene, and what the locals are like.

in fact, actually, i know it sounds crazy, but quality of Bicycle Life, is the primary factor in my life. I actually go somewhere, on the train, bus, with my bike, and check it out. see what its like to look at jobs, where the stores are at, the housing, the crime rates, and what it is actually like to ride my bike there, and actually run around town acting as if I'd be living there, going to work, etc... check out the bike shops, get with the local club, and go for group rides.

another place i think would be pretty cool, is Hawaii...maybe.

in the SoCal sense, the sprawl, and absorbing small towns/villages along the way...
well...
so like what? West Lake Village? Simi Valley? Chatsworth? Morepark, Van Nuys, Woodland Hills, Malibu, Santa Monica, Brentwood?

SoCal is huge. i think 80% of California lives south of Santa Barbara.
my siblings live Fairfax/Melrose area in LA, and I know my feeling is that its a major bummer!

NorCal is a little different. SF has BART, CalTrain, and in particular, Livermore, Pleasanton... but really, in my view, its still communities developing under sprawl, secondary to 680 and 580...

but i'm spoiled that way.
i prefer small towns like Monterey, Santa Cruz, Arcata

if there are nice suburbs, and viable mass transit, (i guess rail) I think its great!

Some parents are finding that location of residence comes into play even when they are renting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/realestate/05Cov.html

Of course the idea that people may rationally choose a residence based on considerations other than bicycling opportunities but rather family oriented issues such as desirable school districts never seems to enters the mind of some of the more provincial car free zealots.
I've never moved to a town or city because of the cycling culture, but I haven't yet lived in a place hostile to cycling. Any community can work for cycling.

I'm quite interested in a number of quality of life issues and if those are not met, I'd quickly reject a community. I'll consider factors such as the size of a community, the distance from work, church, shopping and recreation and the culture or character of a place. If I had children, proximity to schools and the quality of education would be a prime factor. If I was near retirement, I'd look for a vibrant population of seniors.

These factors all make for a community where car-free or car-light living can work, but that's just a bonus, not the main reason for choosing a place to live.

I don't think anybody would point to my city as the perfect place to be carfree and dependant on bicycles. But I'm living proof that it can be done here, and done happily. I think that most communities can suport a bicycle dependance if you're smart enough to make it work.

There are some exceptions, however. If you live in the esceptions you might want to do what you can to change things. Encourage good public transit and work to get them to improve the pavement infrastructure so that you can cycle more efficiently.

I've been car free since 2004 and I live in a town of about 120,000 people in Iowa. I move around a bit but I tend to live on the edge of town. This can complicate things when it comes to grocery shopping or doing laundry but I've always got by just fine. I have also lived in a town of about 1200 people in the middle of no where and didn't have a car. I did however ride along with someone in to the nearest town to shop about once a month, the 120mi round trip wouldn't have been very good with a months groceries and other items.

Over all being able to live car free is more about the person than the location. I think being in the middle of an urban area could be nicer at times, but I think I would rather live in a town about this size or a decent sized suburb of a larger city.

Over all being able to live car free is more about the person than the location. I think being in the middle of an urban area could be nicer at times, but I think I would rather live in a town about this size or a decent sized suburb of a larger city.

As long as you don't have to cycle 40 miles for groceries, I guess a suburb could be OK. To me, it seems like it would be very isolating.

As long as you don't have to cycle 40 miles for groceries, I guess a suburb could be OK. To me, it seems like it would be very isolating.

What's wrong with cycling 40 miles for groceries?

What's wrong with cycling 40 miles for groceries?

The ice cream and popsicles melt. ;)

The ice cream and popsicles melt. ;)

I only shop for ice cream and popsicles in the winter. Unless I'm going to eat them right away.

As long as you don't have to cycle 40 miles for groceries, I guess a suburb could be OK. To me, it seems like it would be very isolating.

Where do you get this info from. We moved to the suburbs because beng inside the city everything was too far away. Now I have 5 grocery stores witin 2 miles of home.

Where do you get this info from. We moved to the suburbs because beng inside the city everything was too far away. Now I have 5 grocery stores witin 2 miles of home.

Maybe the source of such information is the same that reports that people have to be rich or millionaires to afford the cost of automobile ownership and maintenance, or would be millionaires if they only they remain wise enough to never have any transportation costs that involve a privately owned motor vehicles.

Over all being able to live car free is more about the person than the location.

:thumb:

very well said. This could be the motto of the forum.



Where do you get this info from. We moved to the suburbs because beng inside the city everything was too far away. Now I have 5 grocery stores witin 2 miles of home.

This depends on the area. You really can't generalize or stereotype locations. I believe there is only one large supermarket in the entire city of Detroit, for example, but many stores in the suburbs. OTOH, I live near downtown Lansing and there's a Kroger only a half-mile from my house, and several other big supermarkets within 4 miles.

I think it's a good idea to research an area carefully in person and on your bike before you move--especially if you're carfree.

In my town, the suburbs do sometimes have various necessary stores within a couple of miles. The problem is, most of the roads have no bike lanes or shoulders, and since everyone drives (like maniacs, of course) then it would be extremely dangerous to actually try to bike to those stores from the neighborhoods. And, being designed the way they are, those stores are almost never accessible by anything but major roads, where all the worst traffic is. All of the quiet side streets go nowhere. In the older parts of towns, there are countless grocery stores, hardware stores, department stores, restaurants, schools, a library, doctor's offices, and...well...everything you could need and almost everything you could want. The traffic is still insane, but at least a cyclist can take side streets or the MUP and get nearly anywhere in town without having to deal with much traffic. One thing I don't like about my town is that it's not very walkable. Even in town a lot of things are still spread out a bit too much to comfortably walk everywhere. A bicycle is pretty much a necessity in most locations here. Oh, and in town we also have a bus system, although it's practically useless to most people. :rolleyes:


Yes; but - this list is also the place where some posters post messages about how easy it would be for almost everybody else to either go car free, or just pick up and move to a place where they could/should be car free, like the happy go lucky zealots/ideologues posting such provincial observations.

I think a lot of people are over-zealous when they first discover they can get around by bike. I'll admit, when I first started I thought, "Wow, this is great. Why doesn't everyone do this?" But of course, when you actually stop to think about you can see that many people could not for all sorts of reasons.

i think a lot of people are over-zealous when they first discover they can get around by bike. I'll admit, when i first started i thought, "wow, this is great. Why doesn't everyone do this?" but of course, when you actually stop to think about you can see that many people could not for all sorts of reasons.

+1.

I think a lot of people are over-zealous when they first discover they can get around by bike. I'll admit, when I first started I thought, "Wow, this is great. Why doesn't everyone do this?" But of course, when you actually stop to think about you can see that many people could not for all sorts of reasons. However, many more indeed could, just don't wanna.

However, many more indeed could, just don't wanna.

Sure many could, but don't wanna. Many more could also attend regular religous services or go fishing but don't because they don't wanna. So what?

I think a lot of people ... when they first discover they can get around by bike [think] "Wow, this is great. Why doesn't everyone do this?"

Its almost 9 years since I sold the car and I still think that way as I pedal around doing errands. I don't really analyze peoples excuses because I don't usually solicit them. But, lately, just yesterday in fact, the bike parking at the grocery store was full up. I took the last slot. Now I'm thinking- "I'm glad everyone doesn't do this. I'd have no where to park."

I think a lot of people are over-zealous when they first discover they can get around by bike. I'll admit, when I first started I thought, "Wow, this is great. Why doesn't everyone do this?" But of course, when you actually stop to think about you can see that many people could not for all sorts of reasons.

A lot of car drivers are "over-zealous" when they first get their licenses/cars too. In-fact a lot of them stay that way for the rest of their lives. :innocent:

But, lately, just yesterday in fact, the bike parking at the grocery store was full up. I took the last slot. Now I'm thinking- "I'm glad everyone doesn't do this. I'd have no where to park."

If it happens more than once, let them know. The grocery store out back used to have just one wheelbender rack, and it was often full. Now they have 4 (2 wheelbenders, 2 waves), and don't seem to get full (despite more bikes being parked). They have a small parking lot, and there's no good way to fit in more cars... but they could easily fit another 15 bike spots if they need to.

They're a lot busier since they added the extra racks, and it's not the nicest grocery store to bike to by a long shot.

A lot of car drivers are "over-zealous" when they first get their licenses/cars too. In-fact a lot of them stay that way for the rest of their lives. :innocent:

Yes, I've noticed that as well. :o

There's definitely more than one solution for carefree. 1 million, 2 million, 3 million.....:)

However, many more indeed could, just don't wanna.

I love driving. I love doing a double-clutched, rev-matched downshift into second before flooring it away from a slow corner. You can have my steering wheel when you pry it from my cold dead hands. However, I do not like being dependent on a car, and am eager to get moved to Boulder so that I can have a cheap, old, unreliable toy car and not be out of sorts when it breaks.

This is really more of a rant than anything else that was brought on my some recent posts. I just don’t understand a couple things.

I always see posts along the lines of “well, just get out of the suburbs, move to the city center and ride your bike to work, the store etc..” blah blah blah.

I live in the suburbs of DC. I don’t want to live in the city. Yep, I work in the city. I have a 20.3 mile one way trip in and yep I am car free. .

Why do I like my little slice of suburbia? Easy, I have three grocery centers within a mile, the metro station is 1.1 miles for those lazy two days I give myself for commuting a month. There are three bike shops within two miles and one of which my brother is the manager. I have everything I need and on top of that. I have at my long term rental, an acre of land to grow my veggies and do with as I like: I can let my pup-pup run free and to just sit under the trees (my own little park)



It sounds like you have a pretty unique and enviable situation. You live in an urban town with everything you need very close at hand. You are physically capable of a daily 40+ mile commute AND you have public transportation within a mile of your home that brings you righto your city.

Most of us would have to ask someone to pinch us everyday just to make sure we weren't dreaming if we lived like that.

The reason you feel alone on the car-free forum is that very few people have that kind of opportunity. For most, you either live in the city, or you live outside of the city with poor roads, long distances, and limited conveniences. For most, truly living car free means living close enough to work and shopping that it is possible to live car free.