Road Cycling - Help on wheels for a MTB

I couldn't talk my son into buying a road bike, and now he's suffering keeping up with me (So am I) on his MTB. Anybody have any suggestions on tires to buy for a Trek 4500ish MTB for easier touring?

Joat

Weight and rolling resistance.

Tires should be X tires, road, light offroad. Usually a raised center area middle of tire solid (road) treads on the sides, Thinner that mtb tires 1.75? (not really familiar)
Make shure the tires are inflated correct (high) for touring. (a little air out for offroad)

A rear wheel\hub is expensive- how about the front wheel? Factory heavy junk?
Swap out for used high end older light wheel.

The frame and weight. Like a 30 lbs bike? Whew! (my steel mtb is 20.)
First remove any locks or anchors on the frame-(locks in backbacks reduce bike weight.) Remove fenders extraneous holders (backpack). One bottle cage...light wieght reflectors. Don't load him with panniers ect, You can do that on your 20 lbs road bike.

Next check the weight of the seatpost\seat. any easy weight improvements to be made? Lightweigt MTB handlebars? Most factory builds have competent parts, not GREAT stuff- 2 year old used 'advanced' rider level of parts can be purchased and really upgrade a stock bike.

lbs off the build may really help w\ the tires change.
Don't spend big cash, hang out with your son @ bike part swapmeets and ride to lbs for doo-dads.

Don't blame the kid for the choice- a mtb is WAY more fun prob-more riding options.
And playing away from traffic isn't such a bad idea!

Have a great summer touring!
Jef.

Not sure how much effort/cash he wants to put into it. Are road tires common for MTB's? The shop I usually go to doesn't really deal with them much and I can't stand the local chains. Taking other weight off sounds like a good place to go as well. I think we will start with taking some of the accessories off, and changing out the front. And I WILL blame him :) I spent days trying to convince him that he would spend a lot more hours on road, than off... Almost as if he would rather ride with his friends than his dear old Dad, whats up with that?
I already purchased an additional pannier for his gear, so I have that one covered, although I was under the impression that the young guys were supposed to carry the load.

Thanks for the advice.
Joat

Not sure how much effort/cash he wants to put into it. Are road tires common for MTB's? The shop I usually go to doesn't really deal with them much and I can't stand the local chains. Taking other weight off sounds like a good place to go as well. I think we will start with taking some of the accessories off, and changing out the front. And I WILL blame him :) I spent days trying to convince him that he would spend a lot more hours on road, than off... Almost as if he would rather ride with his friends than his dear old Dad, whats up with that?
I already purchased an additional pannier for his gear, so I have that one covered, although I was under the impression that the young guys were supposed to carry the load.

Thanks for the advice.
Joat

I ride with Maxxis Hookworms. They are the best street tires you can get that will not flatten. I ride all over Manhattan and over glass, etc... Never a puncture and smooth as silk. They are a little heavy but it doesn't matter much when you have a 60lb tank. I also used Maxxis wormdrives but I got a flat in a day so I got rid of them. I also had goos luck with hutchinson python gold although they are more for trails.

I posted a pic so you can see what they look like.

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v214/CRSO57/IMG_0316.jpg

Kenda Kross plus 1.9 x 26inch, smooth in the middle with knobs on the sides. I've put 500 miles on mine and they show little wear, good traction on road, good enough off pavment except for mud and steep climbs. Very easy rolling, big improvment over my knobbies- pump them both to 65psi. $11 each at my LBS I couldn't afford a road bike so I went with these. Some urban mtb riders are using totally smooth tires for more traction when playing in parking garages, I couldn't say what brands though. And he may like the look of some knobs on the sides over no knobs or vise versa, but the straight line performance is the same.
Get some lightweight tubes and put half(2oz) the recomended(4oz) amount of Slime sealant in the tubes and squish it around by hand to make sure its well coated, if you try to gently squeeze the slime into the tube it will clog, you must give the bottle a sharp hard squeeze. My tires have held their pressure for 9 months since adding slime without topping off. Every ride I've ever gone on without useing either tough skins or slime I've had a flat, but have never had a flat when using either(over 15 years). And the weight isn't noticable, at half rate its 2oz/56g [light MTB tubes weigh around 125g, standards are about 150g, 'tuff' tubes are 200-300g]. All of the tires at this site look pretty good to me, most even have a higher pressure rating than mine but I would go with 1.5-2.0 width not the 1.3 or 1.4. A wider tire at the same pressure as a skinny tire will have greater load capacity and lower rolling resistance but pressure ratings tend to go down as tires get wider, in this catagory its a toss up so go med to wide for handling reasons. :)
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/slicks.htm
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/images/krosspolice.jpg

Yes they are common now, don't go slick though, a little tread helps a lot if you are turning and the tire is off the main contact patch.

I'm sure a member will post with brand recommendations (I ride the knobbied tires on everything, Dangerous urban traffic situation? Jump the curb, sidewalk, onto somebodies lawn and to safety!)

Mid priced tires should do-cheap tires are just that.
Try using the search forums control and use key words- You might find member preferences. Mtbreview...product reviews.

Order online if not available.

Hutchinson and Michelin are 2 mid-higher priced companys that are 'advanced rider' purchased.

Put more weight in the bags later after he gets used to the bike.

Peace.Jef

Not sure how much effort/cash he wants to put into it. Are road tires common for MTB's? The shop I usually go to doesn't really deal with them much and I can't stand the local chains. Taking other weight off sounds like a good place to go as well. I think we will start with taking some of the accessories off, and changing out the front. And I WILL blame him :) I spent days trying to convince him that he would spend a lot more hours on road, than off... Almost as if he would rather ride with his friends than his dear old Dad, whats up with that?
I already purchased an additional pannier for his gear, so I have that one covered, although I was under the impression that the young guys were supposed to carry the load.

Thanks for the advice.
Joat
Should have went with a cyclocross machine. :D
http://www.cyclocrossworld.com/Gallery/2003_worlds_u23/Images/410F1759.jpg

Yes they are common now, don't go slick though... (I ride the knobbied tires on everything, Dangerous urban traffic situation? Jump the curb, sidewalk, onto somebodies lawn and to safety!)
Peace.Jef

The Hookworms work fine and grip curbs, etc with no problem. If you ride in NYC, you cannot avoid a dangerous urban traffic situation. This city is the true test of urban street tires...

The Kenda Kross look good also.

Yes they are common now, don't go slick though, a little tread helps a lot if you are turning and the tire is off the main contact patch.

Peace.Jef

knobs only work on dirt as they are intended to bite in. Knobs actually reduce traction on pavment do to reduced contact area this is why race cars, and motorcycles have slicks. see this for more detail on bicycle traction http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#traction

knobs only work on dirt as they are intended to bite in. Knobs actually reduce traction on pavment do to reduced contact area this is why race cars, and motorcycles have slicks. see this for more detail on bicycle traction http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#traction

Exactly.

I ride with Maxxis Hookworms. They are the best street tires you can get that will not flatten. I ride all over Manhattan and over glass, etc... Never a puncture and smooth as silk. They are a little heavy but it doesn't matter much when you have a 60lb tank.

A single Hookworm weighs almost as much as my wheelset... so I think they would probably be the last tire on earth for road riding...

knobs only work on dirt as they are intended to bite in. Knobs actually reduce traction on pavment do to reduced contact area this is why race cars, and motorcycles have slicks. see this for more detail on bicycle traction http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#traction

-He may not always ride road or have wheels for switchouts. the Kenda Kross you posted is the tread type I was promoting. -Referred to me @ LBS as semi-slicks?
-IMO the tread edge is preferred and a life saver when you hit loose dirt, gravel on the roadside or do a little trail.
Yes the road contact info is all accurate- I feel IMO that its o.k to run X\XC type knobbed tires on road. O.K for road, not great.

Slicks offroad, loose gravel, wet leaves and you are cornering - you can wreck.-no-way except the Maxxis hook or rings. I'm adding these notes- So as the below post notes, these are frame specific type tires, trick urban, DJ etc.(Note the type frame they are on)
( I'm 38 and want to by my kid a Toy4, put the Maxxis on it, and if she lets me, take it to the local skatepark. I gotta grow-up, ride roadbikes. :D )

Knobbed offroad XC tires on the road, Safe to a certain degree, slow, but to the store,school or paved rds to the offroad area. Fine.
IMO, and I'm taking this offtopic a bit.
If you disagree, perhaps post a new thread so we don't mess the info line for these folks. ;)

Peace.jef

Maxxis Hookworm tires will not work on frames that will not accept a 2.5 wide tire. You can get from any LBS tires as thin as 1.25" IRC, and Tioga both makes street tires that thin. They make a wrold of difference rather than riding semi slick, or wide street tires. Semi Slicks are good if you enocounter varied terrain, but for street specific low roling resistance a 1.9 or bigger tire will be smoother but high resistance.

For road only, I would recommend Specialized Armadillos. They have no knobs at all, any are very flat resistant. I put them on my MTB and got 2-3 mph out of them. Then I saw the light.....well, LiteSpeed, that is.

Beyond that, he will be wasting money to try to keep up with road bikes.

I couldn't talk my son into buying a road bike, and now he's suffering keeping up with me (So am I) on his MTB. Anybody have any suggestions on tires to buy for a Trek 4500ish MTB for easier touring?

Joat

I run Ritchey Tom Slicks 26x1.4" on my MTB for commuting. The also do fine for gravel roads, hardpack, and grassy trails. My rims are pretty wide and 1.4" is about as narrow as I can go. Many MTB rims these days are narrower and can run 26x1.25" or even 26x1.0".

I have 26 x 1.5 slicks on my MTB. Pumped up to 85psi it goes ok. I have kept up with packs of road bikes but its hard work hence my road bike is on order:)

I would also get bar extensions as they help getting into a more aero position (relative of course).

Personally I am looking forward to pulling off the slicks and putting on some xc tyres and using my mountain bike for trails and trips to the shops and the road bike for training and longer rides.

Last July I bought my first bike in a long time. I bought it mainly for campus with the intention of some extra riding. Since then I have ridden about 2500 miles on it mostly on roads. The bike does just fine and is quite capable on roads. In February I bought a road bike which is generally more fun to ride on the roads, but the mountain bike is still more versatile. Last year I frequently managed 20mile rides at 18-20 mi/h on the mtb and did up to 45 miles at about 15mph. Don't be too mad at the kid....

My setup is a Specialized Hardrock which is similar in quality to the Trek. I have 1.5" Specialized Nimbus EX tires and a pair of bar ends. The tires made it more stable and a bit quicker. The bar ends are nice on long rides. These tires will do just fine on dry grass and dirt and stuff to. I wouldnt mountain bike on them, but they are good on the road. Not a single flat with them yet either.

I couldn't talk my son into buying a road bike, and now he's suffering keeping up with me (So am I) on his MTB. Anybody have any suggestions on tires to buy for a Trek 4500ish MTB for easier touring?

Joat

I have put many miles on 1.25" slicks on my commuter MTB. You can fairly cheap (price not quality) slicks from Performance bike on-line if you do not have a local shop. I think my last performance brand tires were $10 each. I also got a pair of IRC Metro clinchers (1.25") on sale from performance or nashbar for $10 each a couple of years ago. Tires that are true slicks have plenty of traction on the road, and if you are looking for road speed make sure you can run high pressure in the tires. I run 90-100 PSI in mine, and never have had a flat. Enjoy riding with your son.

A single Hookworm weighs almost as much as my wheelset... so I think they would probably be the last tire on earth for road riding...

So............................... don't buy them.

Looks like size- 1.4-5 - maybe go slicks- (Tom Ritchey,T.R.-top rated or tested repeatedly) that Gonzo Bob recommends are probably very nice. Old Tom's name is on the best designs (his).

The bar ends too, as he will be able to get more aerodynamic, and in position to use more muscles.

[QUOTE=CRSO]I posted a pic so you can see what they look like.[QUOTE]


that bike is sick!

[QUOTE=CRSO]I posted a pic so you can see what they look like.[QUOTE]


that bike is sick!

Why thank you sir.

The bar ends too, as he will be able to get more aerodynamic, and in position to use more muscles.

Bar ends I've found no use for, on the road. They used to make, maybe still do, bar extenders they called them. They are clamped on inboard of the grips/shifters rather than outboard like bar ends. Sort of like makeshift aerobars I guess. My old mtb has a fairly long and very low stem so I just use straight bars.

As far as the whole traction thing I just remembered a little anecdote. A year ago I was training somthing harcore for an endurance type mountainbike race with the kenda cross[shown way above] semi-slicks and they worked wonderfully for me on gravel and dirt roads as well as pavement(my technical skills were suficiant I just needed more conditioning). Anyway after 6 months of this training I put a michelin wildgripper XL 1.95 xc racing tire on the back and a maxxis Hyten 2.35 dual compound dart tread thing, from my old stash, on the front in preperation for the race.
I took this new combo for a spin around the block and wouldn't you know it, the old kenda kross setup had more traction then I thought, I was able to spin the michelin on every steep hill that I really cranked on at low speeds, these are dry warm paved hills mind you some asphalt some chipseal.
They don't make this exact tire anymore. The tread paddern is used but not on the super light weight carcass with the fancy green racing rubber with skin sidewalls.
http://www.bikecanada.com/catalog/images/tires17.jpg

Wow! Great advice and thoughts.
Thanks a lot folks. Think I will order up a pair of those Kenda Kross and have him give them a try. The Hookworms look great, but I think he wanted something a little less beefy. I like the idea of slick centers.
Thanks
Joat
p.s. Just received and tested my Arkel Briefcase. Awesome for Urban commute with laptop.

I couldn't talk my son into buying a road bike, and now he's suffering keeping up with me (So am I) on his MTB. Anybody have any suggestions on tires to buy for a Trek 4500ish MTB for easier touring?

Joat

I have GEAX Streetrunners, 26 X 1.25, 100psi on my Trek 4300. They made a world of difference for me riding on the roads. My average speed went up 4 - 5 mph.

I will take a look at those as well. I like the idea of high pressure tires.
Joat

Help me out here, he's got 26 by 1.95? right now.
Do these hybrid / road tires even come in sizes that will work on his wheels?

Help me out here, he's got 26 by 1.95? right now.
Do these hybrid / road tires even come in sizes that will work on his wheels?

They are road tires that are made for mountain bikes. Look for tires that 26"x whatever width you want (probably in between 1.25" and 2"). Tires made for road bikes are 700mm and will not fit.

They are road tires that are made for mountain bikes. Look for tires that 26"x whatever width you want (probably in between 1.25" and 2"). Tires made for road bikes are 700mm and will not fit.

just because I'm slow...
so even though his current tires are 26 x 1.95, he can use something between 1.25 and 2?

just because I'm slow...
so even though his current tires are 26 x 1.95, he can use something between 1.25 and 2?

Yep. He could actually use slightly narrower slicks if he wanted, but most people wouldnt recommend it. If he wanted knobby off-road tires he could go even wider.

I think 26"x1.4" or 26"x1.5" slicks would be a good choice.

Sweet. thanks!

Thanks for all the input folks. Ordered GEAX Streetrunners. Hope they come in soon :)
Actually, I have mixed feelings on this. Right now, if we do sprints, I can leave my son in the dust. With his new tires, I'm not so sure that will be true anymore...

Another thing I would recommend if he's trying to keep up with you is to order a new cassette with more of a road gearing ratio.

I had a few friends and we were all training on the road. We found some tires that were 1.25" wide and had a max p.s.i. at or near 100. Then we threw on some road cassettes and could easily keep pace with B & C group roadies. We couldn't hang with the "A" group guys, but 18-20 mph in a paceline was attainable. Granted, it was more work than the people on road bikes, but attainable.

L8R

Thanks for all the input folks. Ordered GEAX Streetrunners. Hope they come in soon :)
Actually, I have mixed feelings on this. Right now, if we do sprints, I can leave my son in the dust. With his new tires, I'm not so sure that will be true anymore...

My top speed is about the same using slicks and knobbies. Using slicks I feel a bit safer and more comfortable at it though. The main advantage to slicks is the more comfortable ride and the couple mi/hr average speed increase. I doubt the tires will chaneg things around that much, but they will help level the field a bit.

Another thing I would recommend if he's trying to keep up with you is to order a new cassette with more of a road gearing ratio.


If there is a new cassette in his future, he has to buy it!
I'm not spending even more money on his bike, just so he can make the old man look, well, old.

If there is a new cassette in his future, he has to buy it!
I'm not spending even more money on his bike, just so he can make the old man look, well, old.

I hope that was sarcasm. Sarcasm doesn't type well sometimes.


What was your original question?

You were asking for help on what you can do to your son's wheels/tires so you don't have to wait for him.

Solid advice given and you complain!

Jeez!

Not to start an argument, but then you complain that your kid wants to go have fun riding with his friends and NOT with you.

Sounds like you've got some interpersonal issues.

Cake and eating it....how's that go?

doh, forgot the tags
<sarcasm>
If there is a new cassette in his future, he has to buy it!
I'm not spending even more money on his bike, just so he can make the old man look, well, old.
</sarcasm>

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Sorry if you missed it. Thought it was more obvious than that.

My bad, I apologize. Must be having a bad day without knowing it.

Sorry for being rude. That's not like me!

L8R

nah, not rude.
If you missed the sarcasm, what I wrote could easily be misconstrued.
Ride on!

I'm using a pair of Panaracer T-serv 1.75" for my MTB :)