Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - 2011 PBP Qualification

Ivo Miesen recently posted an item on "Yet Another Cycling Forum" about qualifying for 2011 PBP.

"In short, for 2011 there will be national quota based on the number of participants in PBP 2007 and the development of participation in local BRM's. Those who have done a BRM 400 in 2010 will be allowed to register earlier as those who have completed shorter BRM's in 2010. Those who have done no BRM's in 2010 will only be allowed to register their participation towards the end."

Full thread at http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17236.0

This suggests that prospective PBPers should complete up to a 400 brevet in 2010, for the best chance of getting their entry accepted in 2011.

wow, so it's official, eh?

i guess this is better than cutting down on finishing times..

Most all of the randonneurs I know do at least one, maybe two, full series each year anyhow. Sounds like this change will only serve to exclude newer riders.

Is this true, or is this an April Fool's joke among the Randonneuring crowd? I'm almost inclined to think it's a joke based on the timing. If you're going to announce something serious, you don't announce it right at the beginning of April.


And as for cutting finishing times, I think that was just idle speculation by the racerboys in the crowd. I highly doubt they'd actually do that ... if anything extending the times would make much more sense.

Machka, you've been riding brevets long enough to know who Ivo is. You are welcome to find the original posting on the French forum, it doesn't take long.

Extending the time limits somewhat contradicts the entire tradition of brevets, 200 km between sunrise and sunset and all that. PBP time limits have only ever been reduced, originally 10 days (in the early days of the race) to 96 hours (for the early ACP brevets) to 90 hours with options for more restricted time limits.

Machka, you've been riding brevets long enough to know who Ivo is. You are welcome to find the original posting on the French forum, it doesn't take long.

Extending the time limits somewhat contradicts the entire tradition of brevets, 200 km between sunrise and sunset and all that. PBP time limits have only ever been reduced, originally 10 days (in the early days of the race) to 96 hours (for the early ACP brevets) to 90 hours with options for more restricted time limits.

10 days? Wow.
Sounds like a fun way to tour the French countryside.

My wife (who, for irony, runs marathons) would love to do a long long ride... but not in 90 hours. She'd rather tour along and enjoy the sites, stopping at every town for a bite to eat and a photograph. She does not understand why we need to 'finish' in 90 hours. Oddly, I don't understand why someone would want to run 26 miles (much less 10...).

If they're going to suck the fun out of the event, I may have to reconsider if I want to attempt it.

If they're going to suck the fun out of the event, I may have to reconsider if I want to attempt it. The event itself is tremendous fun. I think the discussion is about ensuring that the event isn't overloaded by people who want to share in the fun.

Riding through the French countryside, being feted like a superstar by eager teenagers, getting lovely cakes served to you by noble grandmothers, laughing along with an international cast of tough, friendly and worthy cyclists, pillaging cafes between Paris and Brittany, giving a thumbs up to pretty girls cheering you on. That's all fun.

Sharing toilet facilities with 5000 other sweaty, dirty athletes. Competing for inadequate bed space when you're hoping to get at least 90 minutes of sleep in the next 36 hours. Queueing at interminable lines in overcrowded cafeterias at the controle. That's a little less fun.

"They" as in the ACP are not sucking the fun out of the event. Ruining the fun is being taken care of by "us."

The event itself is tremendous fun. I think the discussion is about ensuring that the event isn't overloaded by people who want to share in the fun.

Riding through the French countryside, being feted like a superstar by eager teenagers, getting lovely cakes served to you by noble grandmothers, laughing along with an international cast of tough, friendly and worthy cyclists, pillaging cafes between Paris and Brittany, giving a thumbs up to pretty girls cheering you on. That's all fun.

Sharing toilet facilities with 5000 other sweaty, dirty athletes. Competing for inadequate bed space when you're hoping to get at least 90 minutes of sleep in the next 36 hours. Queueing at interminable lines in overcrowded cafeterias at the controle. That's a little less fun.

"They" as in the ACP are not sucking the fun out of the event. Ruining the fun is being taken care of by "us."

It helps to have perspective. I was more referring to the possibility of them reducing the allowed time for completion. I'm hoping they don't turn it into an event that precludes the participation of the "fit, but not so fast".

Sharing toilet facilities with 5000 other sweaty, dirty athletes. Competing for inadequate bed space when you're hoping to get at least 90 minutes of sleep in the next 36 hours. Queueing at interminable lines in overcrowded cafeterias at the controle.

Sounds like "they" are trying to keep PBP from becoming another STP.

STP is only a double (or back-to-back) and the rider cap is rumoured to be 10,000 this year. Not a typo: Ten Thousand Riders.
I worked out the math on this once before. Assuming 7000 evenly spaced riders (not counting the 1-day finishers who leave 1 hour earlier) leaving over a 2 hour period so the fastest ones are 40mi ahead. That's 1 rider every 30 feet, for 40 solid miles.
Someone told me the wait for the port-o-johns at the first rest stop was 25 minutes, and there was a line of about 30 of the things!

I don't have plans for PBP in my future, but I'd prefer not to hear of it becoming an insane mess like STP has evolved into.

It helps to have perspective. I was more referring to the possibility of them reducing the allowed time for completion. I'm hoping they don't turn it into an event that precludes the participation of the "fit, but not so fast".

yeah, I think between the R60/80/90 talk last month and the scuttlebutt around PBP qualification changes recently, there's a lot of sentiment in US circles at least about focusing on faster riders for the sake of maintaining the challenge of randonneuring, but I think that there's a pretty healthy push back against that from folks who view randonneuring as a fast tour.

I think it's inescapable how randonneuring will always sit at this balance point between the tourists and racers. It's part of the sport's strength and appeal, but I only hope that it never changes such that it favors one side at the cost of the other.

yeah, I think between the R60/80/90 talk last month and the scuttlebutt around PBP qualification changes recently, there's a lot of sentiment in US circles at least about focusing on faster riders for the sake of maintaining the challenge of randonneuring, but I think that there's a pretty healthy push back against that from folks who view randonneuring as a fast tour.

I think it's inescapable how randonneuring will always sit at this balance point between the tourists and racers. It's part of the sport's strength and appeal, but I only hope that it never changes such that it favors one side at the cost of the other.


There is a lot of push back against reducing the times ... and I'm definitely one of the ones pushing against it. If they reduce the times ... I drop out of randonneuring all together. There are other aspects of cycling I enjoy that don't involve the hassle of struggling to meet a time requirement ... like 24-hour TTs, and tours. But in the past, the time dropped because of things like paved roads and better bicycles, but there's really no reason for it to drop again now.

That idea was proposed by a few racerboys as a way to reduce the number of DNFs on the PBP ... based on the info from the 2007 PBP. Well ... there were DNFs from the fast rider crowd, from the slow rider crowd, and from everything in between. Why? Because the weather was particularly bad. Reducing the qualifying times wouldn't have made any difference at all. I was one of the DNFs on the 2007 PBP ... not because of a time factor, but rather because I was having some personal issues out there, and also just wasn't enjoying myself anymore ... and Rowan and I had two more weeks of touring planned for after the PBP which we did want to enjoy.

However, I can see the idea behind encouraging people to ride at least one brevet in 2010, and then the whole series in 2011, because it gives people more experience wirh riding long distances.

I can even see the idea of encouraging people to start their 400Ks at night. In Manitoba, our 400Ks always started at 4 am, and even though I'm not a morning person, I liked that. I like starting my rides in the dark and seeing the sun come up.

And I love the 10 pm starts of the RM1200 and the PBP ... that's when I'm the most awake and energetic, and I can usually maintain that energy until near sun-up. And then ... it's a wonderful feeling to see the sun come up, to look down at your computer, and to realize that you've already covered 140 or 150 kms of the event. :)

so there's talk in this thread of shortening qualifying times, but is there any official talk of that?

i got the impression they're doing this two-stage/early reg thing instead of lowering finishing times..

so there's talk in this thread of shortening qualifying times, but is there any official talk of that?



No.

But like I said, the day they do is the day I'm out of randonneuring. Shortening the times any more than they already are makes the event a race, and if I want to race, I'll do a 24-hour TT.

Fortunately there are a large number of French people involved and the French ride the PBP like a rolling picnic. They've got the right attitude about it all. :D I can't see them being enthusiastic about turning it into a race ... having to ride fast would eat into the mid-ride restaurant and wine time!

Audax Australia recently received more information from the ACP (also
circulated to the other members of LRM) regarding 2011 PBP
qualification. You can read it in French and English at
http://audax.org.au/public/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=363&Itemid=333%3E%20&task=view&id=363&Itemid=333

Shortening the times any more than they already are makes the event a race, and if I want to race, I'll do a 24-hour TT.


Not so, there are plenty of people in the 80 and 84 hour start that are just aiming to finish. Check out the 'lump' of people finishing PBP in the last 5 hours for each start time, it looks very similar. I did the 84 hour start in 2007, versus 90 hour in '99 and '03. I may pick the 80 or 84 hour start next time and I won't be racing.

Sounds like "they" are trying to keep PBP from becoming another STP.

Someone told me the wait for the port-o-johns at the first rest stop was 25 minutes, and there was a line of about 30 of the things!


No danger of that. The Europeans don't need no Porta Potties. They just whip it out on the side of the road, in plain view of traffic, and often without getting off of their bikes. It's a cultural thing.
During the PBP, on the outskirts of any town, you'd see hundreds of pizzlers. During the last PBP, portapotties and restrooms were mostly occupied by bikers wrapped in space blankets or plastic trying to warm up and get some sleep.

Not so, there are plenty of people in the 80 and 84 hour start that are just aiming to finish. Check out the 'lump' of people finishing PBP in the last 5 hours for each start time, it looks very similar. I did the 84 hour start in 2007, versus 90 hour in '99 and '03. I may pick the 80 or 84 hour start next time and I won't be racing.

If I'm not mistaken the biggest group of riders is the 90 hour group ... and many of them would be racing to finish in 84 hours or less. Just because some people are speed demons doesn't mean all of us are ... or want to be.

If I'm not mistaken the biggest group of riders is the 90 hour group ... and many of them would be racing to finish in 84 hours or less. Just because some people are speed demons doesn't mean all of us are ... or want to be.

A faster PBP still would not be a race, just a more difficult brevet - like the Endless Mountains 1200 is a more difficult brevet than PBP because of the greater elevation gain.

A faster PBP still would not be a race, just a more difficult brevet - like the Endless Mountains 1200 is a more difficult brevet than PBP because of the greater elevation gain.

Well so far reducing the time limits isn't in the official discussion, and hopefully people like me can keep it out of the official discussion. Hopefully the voice of the slower riders .. the riders who want to keep randonneuring as a happy medium between racing and touring, will be heard. :)

Well so far reducing the time limits isn't in the official discussion, and hopefully people like me can keep it out of the official discussion. Hopefully the voice of the slower riders .. the riders who want to keep randonneuring as a happy medium between racing and touring, will be heard. :)

Don't be surprised that many of the faster riders also enjoy randonnees as the happy medium between racing and touring. ;)

Hopefully the voice of the slower riders .. the riders who want to keep randonneuring as a happy medium between racing and touring, will be heard. :)

Not that I have any plans for a 1200 lined up in my immediate future, but as a proud member of the DFL club and having eeked out a finish by just 1 minute on the clock during my first event this year, I'll speak up. I don't have plans of joining the R60 crew. Hell, I can't even imagine myself ever riding that fast. I like riding at a slow to moderate pace and enjoying the scenery. I like sitting at a park bench under the full moon for 15 minutes and eating a sandwich when a "ride-by" would have worked just as well for the info control. I'm sure I'm not the only one, because there were still riders coming in after me last Saturday. Maybe they're the ones working their way up to riding PBP, and I'm sure that lowering the qualifying times would hurt their (or someone's) chances.

Audax Australia recently received more information from the ACP (also
circulated to the other members of LRM) regarding 2011 PBP
qualification. You can read it in French and English at
http://audax.org.au/public/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=363&Itemid=333%3E%20&task=view&id=363&Itemid=333

basically, to summarize the additional info -- two key takeways are


1. if you finish at least a 400k in 2010, then you qualify for early registration -- given the number of riders who were first-timers in 2007, who may have just started training that year, riding a 200, 300 and 400k in 2010 almost guarantees that you'll have a spot in PBP 2011.

2. if you identify with a nation that sent more than 50 riders in 2007 (France, US, Germany, Italy, UK, Spain, Denmark, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden) then your country will have a quota assigned to their participation and that quota will be determined by the proportion of riders that your country sent to PBP in 2007 and adjusted by the number of kilometers of finished brevets in your country between 2006 and 2010.

So, if you want to maximize your chances of getting to PBP - the message is simple: finish a 400k in 2010 and finish as many brevets as you can in your home country starting now, also encourage as many people as possible to finish brevets in your home country. Nothing fancy or flashy. The focus is just on participation and on finished brevets.

... either that or move to Poland ...

hoping to get at least 90 minutes of sleep in the next 36 hours

It never occurred to me that being the father of twins could prepare me for long-distance cycling events.

basically, to summarize the additional info -- two key takeways are


1. if you finish at least a 400k in 2010, then you qualify for early registration -- given the number of riders who were first-timers in 2007, who may have just started training that year, riding a 200, 300 and 400k in 2010 almost guarantees that you'll have a spot in PBP 2011.

2. if you identify with a nation that sent more than 50 riders in 2007 (France, US, Germany, Italy, UK, Spain, Denmark, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden) then your country will have a quota assigned to their participation and that quota will be determined by the proportion of riders that your country sent to PBP in 2007 and adjusted by the number of kilometers of finished brevets in your country between 2006 and 2010.

So, if you want to maximize your chances of getting to PBP - the message is simple: finish a 400k in 2010 and finish as many brevets as you can in your home country starting now, also encourage as many people as possible to finish brevets in your home country. Nothing fancy or flashy. The focus is just on participation and on finished brevets.

... either that or move to Poland ...


Actually, the information we've been given here in Canada is that it only applies to the clubs here that have more than 50 members. Each individual club in Canada is at the level of RUSA, Audax UK, Audax Australia, etc. So we're guessing the ruling only applies to the BC Randonneurs and maybe the Ontario Randonneurs. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia only sent a small handful of members to the 2007 PBP, so it might not apply to them.

Not that I have any plans for a 1200 lined up in my immediate future, but as a proud member of the DFL club and having eeked out a finish by just 1 minute on the clock during my first event this year, I'll speak up. I don't have plans of joining the R60 crew. Hell, I can't even imagine myself ever riding that fast. I like riding at a slow to moderate pace and enjoying the scenery. I like sitting at a park bench under the full moon for 15 minutes and eating a sandwich when a "ride-by" would have worked just as well for the info control. I'm sure I'm not the only one, because there were still riders coming in after me last Saturday. Maybe they're the ones working their way up to riding PBP, and I'm sure that lowering the qualifying times would hurt their (or someone's) chances.

+1

And on the 2003 PBP, I rolled across the line at about 89 hours, and then hung around for the next two hours while riders came in ... in a steady stream. Hundreds of riders were behind me, and I was cutting it close.

There are lots of cyclists who can do the distance but either don't want to ride fast, or simply can't. We've happy with our own abilities and love the fact that there is are events we can do ... like randonneuring.

Since the decision about riding brevets in 2010 has been made, I doubt any more of the silly talk about lowering the qualifying times will come up again ... hopefully ever, but not likely till 2012 at the earliest.

Actually, the information we've been given here in Canada is that it only applies to the clubs here that have more than 50 members. Each individual club in Canada is at the level of RUSA, Audax UK, Audax Australia, etc. So we're guessing the ruling only applies to the BC Randonneurs and maybe the Ontario Randonneurs. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Nova Scotia only sent a small handful of members to the 2007 PBP, so it might not apply to them.

original French release on the Audax AU site:


L’avantage de cette méthode est de pouvoir communiquer sur le calcul immédiatement et de fournir des chiffres dès le mois de janvier 2011. Elle favorise les pays en forte progression mais laisse de la place aux nouveaux venus car le calcul du quota se fait uniquement sur les pays ayant inscrits plus de 50 personnes en 2007.

translation:

The advantage of this method is that it allows prompt calculation and communication of figures for January 2011. It favors countries that exhibit strong progress but gives opportunities for newer areas since the calculation of the quota is only made for countries that sent more than 50 people in 2007.

The language specifically focuses on countries rather than clubs. You'll also notice that the formula included in the release specifically indicates that 13 countries will be affected by quotas, and that is the same as the number of countries that sent 50+ cyclists to PBP 2007, including Canada. So, unless they're treating British Columbia as a separate nation from Canada ... which, personally, I wouldn't object to ;) I think that this contradicts the information that you have.

However, I agree that it deserves to be clarified for countries that do not have a umbrella national organization, like Canada, since, if the number of Canadians petitioning to ride in PBP exceed their national quota, the unenviable task of deciding who stays and who goes should be decided by the clubs jointly rather than separately.

However, I agree that it deserves to be clarified for countries that do not have a umbrella national organization, like Canada, since, if the number of Canadians petitioning to ride in PBP exceed their national quota, the unenviable task of deciding who stays and who goes should be decided by the clubs jointly rather than separately.


I'm not sure that a country will have to actually sit down and make a decision. I think it will be that if "X" number of people have done the 400K, those people can apply for a spot on the PBP by a certain day. If the country's quota is full at that point ... then no one else should bother to apply. However if there is still some room, then those who have done the 300K can apply, and if that fills up the quota, then that's it. But if there is still some room, then those who have done the 200K can apply ... and if there is still some room after that, then those who did not do any brevets in 2010 can apply.

IMO it is not a bad thing to encourage potential PBP participants to do a 400K in the previous year ... it gives them more experience. Before I went to the PBP, I did a full SR series in 2001, then a full SR series and the RM1200 in 2002 ... and then I did a full SR series and the 2003 PBP. I was very glad I had the experience of the previous two years before I tackled the PBP. I would not have wanted that one to do that 1200K in my first year.

The other thing encouraging riders to do a 400K in the previous year does is to weed out the people who are out to attempt the PBP as a lark because they've got nothing better to do on those days.

I was so annoyed when I overheard one woman tell a friend, at the 2003 PBP, that she had absolutely no intention of finishing the PBP but that she wanted to ride along to the first control to be able to take in the atmosphere. The PBP officials didn't have a cap on the riders that year (I heard of people being accepted on the day before the event) but if they did have a cap and she was accepted, and someone else who really wanted to do the whole event was rejected, that would be horrible.

So encouraging people to participate in randonneuring for 2 years running like this might weed out the sightseers, the people who just want to ride along to the first control to take in the atmosphere.

It never occurred to me that being the father of twins could prepare me for long-distance cycling events.

I'm way ahead on my sleep deprivation training for this years fleche and eventual 1200k. Its the rest of the training I'm struggling with.

Lately I've been getting 3-4 hours uninterrupted. Up from about an hour 2 months ago... :thumb:
And we only have 1.

Lately I've been getting 3-4 hours uninterrupted. Up from about an hour 2 months ago... :thumb:
And we only have 1.

I'll do the war story comparisons in PM so they don't take over this interesting thread--but yeah.

I'm not sure that a country will have to actually sit down and make a decision. I think it will be that if "X" number of people have done the 400K, those people can apply for a spot on the PBP by a certain day. If the country's quota is full at that point ... then no one else should bother to apply. However if there is still some room, then those who have done the 300K can apply, and if that fills up the quota, then that's it. But if there is still some room, then those who have done the 200K can apply ... and if there is still some room after that, then those who did not do any brevets in 2010 can apply.


That approach guarantees that the organisation will have to make a decision about who goes and who misses out. The quota will get filled at some point with more people still wanting to enter PBP, somebody will have to shut the gate. How do you suggest which entries received on the last day the quota is not filled gets accepted and which ones arrived too late? It is likely that most people will enter on the first possible day they can, so it won't be just one or two entries each day and they will all have reached the same minimum qualification standard.

Given that the earliest PBP entry dates are well before the northern latitudes have completed their longer brevets, do people who have ridden a 400 brevet in 2010 enter on the earliest possible date, planning to do their longer qualification rides sometime before the end of June? If so, will there be a waiting list of 2011 SR people outside the PBP quota to fill the places of those who entered earlier but did not actually succeed in qualifying?

An earlier application date is meaningless otherwise. Few riders in the far North will have completed a SR by April, most are ridden in late May or June. No problem for those south of the Equator, though I suspect that early qualifiers run the risk of losing long-distance fitness in the long months up to the start of PBP.

I was so annoyed when I overheard one woman tell a friend, at the 2003 PBP, that she had absolutely no intention of finishing the PBP but that she wanted to ride along to the first control to be able to take in the atmosphere. The PBP officials didn't have a cap on the riders that year (I heard of people being accepted on the day before the event) but if they did have a cap and she was accepted, and someone else who really wanted to do the whole event was rejected, that would be horrible.

So encouraging people to participate in randonneuring for 2 years running like this might weed out the sightseers, the people who just want to ride along to the first control to take in the atmosphere.

I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately the stories of riders going from 100 km/day touring to PBP within a year will become much rarer though.

Given that the earliest PBP entry dates are well before the northern latitudes have completed their longer brevets, do people who have ridden a 400 brevet in 2010 enter on the earliest possible date, planning to do their longer qualification rides sometime before the end of June?

We usually finish our 600K in early June here in Canada on the PBP year.

We usually finish our 600K in early June here in Canada on the PBP year.

So if you have to complete a SR before you can enter 2011 PBP, you will be at the back of the line, even behind those who haven't completed an ACP brevet in 2010.

So if you have to complete a SR before you can enter 2011 PBP, you will be at the back of the line, even behind those who haven't completed an ACP brevet in 2010.

I don't read it that way.

"For randonneurs, pre-registration via the Internet will allow people who made BRM in 2010 to reserve their participation for Paris-Brest-Paris. Longer is the homologated BRM distance and earlier they will be able to pre-register. For example:
· With a BRM 400 km in 2010, they may register from 15 April 2011.
· With a BRM 300 km in 2010, they may register from 01 May 2011.
· With a BRM 200 km in 2010, they may register from 15 May 2011.
· by not realizing a BRM in 2010, they could not register until June 01, 2011.
These dates are still to be defined and will be communicated early 2011."

In other words, if I were going to be living in Canada in 2010 and 2011, I would ride a 400 km in 2010, and then on 15 April 2011 I would pre-register via the Internet to reserve my participation in the PBP.

Then I would ride my SR series in 2011 as usual.

I agree with you, you can pre-register for PBP prior to completing a SR. A PBP standby list is guaranteed to form. Who selects the people on the standby list and when? If you are on a standby list, can you arrange flights, accommodation, leave from work and so on at comparatively short notice and probably at higher cost?

I agree with you, you can pre-register for PBP prior to completing a SR. A PBP standby list is guaranteed to form. Who selects the people on the standby list and when? If you are on a standby list, can you arrange flights, accommodation, leave from work and so on at comparatively short notice and probably at higher cost?

The final list is probably not complete until the end of June ... much like any other year. And much like any other year we will wait till the final confirmation is received around the end of June/beginning of July to book things. I don't see anything changing in that regard from any other year.

BTW - waiting to arrange flights until about 6-9 weeks before you travel is the way to go! I've gotten some great deals doing that.

BTW - waiting to arrange flights until about 6-9 weeks before you travel is the way to go! I've gotten some great deals doing that.

Rarely in this part of the world.

Rarely in this part of the world.

Actually, Rowan just got a great deal on my flight in 9 weeks time.


But if you're worried, just book your flight early, and if you don't get accepted into the PBP, no big deal, just do a tour instead.

I was so annoyed when I overheard one woman tell a friend, at the 2003 PBP, that she had absolutely no intention of finishing the PBP but that she wanted to ride along to the first control to be able to take in the atmosphere. The PBP officials didn't have a cap on the riders that year (I heard of people being accepted on the day before the event) but if they did have a cap and she was accepted, and someone else who really wanted to do the whole event was rejected, that would be horrible.
.

Didn't you DNF 2007 because you weren't having fun, and because you had 2 more weeks of touring to do?

While I would also be upset over hearing this conversation, we all ride for different reasons... and we all stop an event for personal reasons.

Yes, it would suck to be bumped because this person got in and I didn't - but this DNF will play into the national percentages... likely to have some consequences down the road.

Didn't you DNF 2007 because you weren't having fun, and because you had 2 more weeks of touring to do?

While I would also be upset over hearing this conversation, we all ride for different reasons... and we all stop an event for personal reasons.

Yes, it would suck to be bumped because this person got in and I didn't - but this DNF will play into the national percentages... likely to have some consequences down the road.


It's one thing to start a ride with every intention of finishing it and then to DNF partway through a ride for various reasons ... it's another thing to start a ride planning to DNF ... and especially planning to DNF at the first control because that's when the "atmosphere" diminishes. If that person wanted "atmosphere", she should have just volunteered.

Hopefully this will explained a little more by ACP. I plan on doing PBP again in 2011, and I can't do last minute travel plans. My wife would kill me. :eek:

What I'd like to see is a requirement where everybody has to do a full SR in 2010 in addition to 2011. That will weed out some people. I don't want to see the finishing times changed. The current times seem to fit the randonneuring type.

But going by that study that was done after 2007's event, who did or didn't finish wasn't obvious to have predicted.

Actually, Rowan just got a great deal on my flight in 9 weeks time.


Good luck with getting a last-minute cheap deal flying Australia to Europe in August.

What I'd like to see is a requirement where everybody has to do a full SR in 2010 in addition to 2011.

As per ACP requirements, a 400 brevet in 2010 is enough to get the earliest available pre-registration.

Doing a 2010 SR would help a rookie's confidence but is not required and doesn't appear to greatly assist their chance of finishing. All it would do is to entirely remove the possibility of somebody riding PBP without having at least 2 years history in riding randonnees, not an entirely good thing IMHO. There is a lot to be said for the wide-eyed enthusiasm and terror of somebody completely fresh to both PBP and brevets.

It's one thing to start a ride with every intention of finishing it and then to DNF partway through a ride for various reasons ... it's another thing to start a ride planning to DNF ... and especially planning to DNF at the first control because that's when the "atmosphere" diminishes. If that person wanted "atmosphere", she should have just volunteered.

She obviously went through the trouble of qualifying, so it was her ride to throw away - to finish, or not. She's a masochist if she rode a SR series to qualify, pay the entry, travel, etc... just to dump after the first control. Crazy, for sure - just as crazy as anything else we do on two wheels.

Again, this would probably have upset me as well - but if you are allowed to ride they way you want to, other people should be given the same respect. I seem to remember reading somewhere that not everyone comes to this side of the sport with the same expectations, ideals, philosophies, goals, etc.

As per ACP requirements, a 400 brevet in 2010 is enough to get the earliest available pre-registration.

Doing a 2010 SR would help a rookie's confidence but is not required and doesn't appear to greatly assist their chance of finishing. All it would do is to entirely remove the possibility of somebody riding PBP without having at least 2 years history in riding randonnees, not an entirely good thing IMHO. There is a lot to be said for the wide-eyed enthusiasm and terror of somebody completely fresh to both PBP and brevets.

No, I like the idea of having at least 2 years history before doing PBP. Maybe you like wide-eyed terror more than I do. ;)

That 400k in 2010 requirement just about takes care of my concerns.

No, I like the idea of having at least 2 years history before doing PBP. Maybe you like wide-eyed terror more than I do. ;)


Maybe I just like seeing it in others' eyes. :)