Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Clydes mashing = problems?

Okay as a big rider who's used to the "hulk smash" mentality...do I need to be carefull about my gearing? I had a lighter aluminum bike previously (Jamis Sagres) and it was undersized and I ended up stripping the...(noob here) bottom bracket.

With my new LHT I want to avoid this...do I need to keep from mashing in general or does it not matter?

The knees will love you for not mashing too much. If you do tear apart another BB you will have a good excuse to upgrade to something stronger.

I agree with FFA. Your knees take the brunt of mashing, then your bike. If you have BB problems, an upgrade is in order.

Hmm, while I haven't hit any centuries yet, I've been playing rugby for 14 years with no knee problems so I think I've got thatcovered. I guess the question is does using leg strength vs speed tend to wear/break parts more often?
But true, looking to upgrade is always fun!

Spinning is easier on the body overall. I would guess that mashing can cause some problems with BB damage, but it could also be poor setup or just failed components. I owned a Jamis that the BB failed also and the owner of the LBS when looking at it and getting me the next best frame upgrade thought it looked like a bearing failure. I was not a masher, because I did some research before I bought my first bike in 20 years. I usually am over 90 cadence now, but there are times when I am in the lowest gear in the small front and hitting only 70, but those are hills. Other than that, I am trying to keep my cadence in the 95 range as that is starting to be my comfort zone, where 85-90 used to be my comfort zone.

Hmm, while I haven't hit any centuries yet, I've been playing rugby for 14 years with no knee problems so I think I've got thatcovered. I guess the question is does using leg strength vs speed tend to wear/break parts more often?
But true, looking to upgrade is always fun!

Do yourself a favor, friend. Learn to spin. Playing rugby is hard on the knees in a completely different way from cycling. The h3ll with the hardware, it's easier and cheaper to replace than your knees.

Hmm, while I haven't hit any centuries yet, I've been playing rugby for 14 years with no knee problems so I think I've got thatcovered. I guess the question is does using leg strength vs speed tend to wear/break parts more often?
But true, looking to upgrade is always fun!

Bike parts? Are you riding just to replace bike parts? :eek:

Seriously, I assume you ride to get in better shape. And, I might add, I'm no expert, but it seems to me spinning at the higher rpms is better for getting fit.

I see this one rider all the time (a Super-Clyde, for sure) pedaling at maybe 35 rpm and moving at maybe 6 mph. What's the point of that? :wtf:

If your goal is getting in shape, I suggest getting the R's up to 90 and then getting the speeds up to an avg of 15 mph. Hold that pace for a couple hours at a time. Now you're doing something? :giver:



BTW: You aint really ridden until you rode a century. :D

See: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=524164

Hmm, while I haven't hit any centuries yet, I've been playing rugby for 14 years with no knee problems so I think I've got thatcovered. I guess the question is does using leg strength vs speed tend to wear/break parts more often?
But true, looking to upgrade is always fun!It would be prudent to listen to everyone here: mashing + power = bad for your knees. You may not feel it now: perhaps your riding isn't sufficient to cause problems. But if you increase mileage or start hitting harder hills, it could come out to haunt you. And maybe not now, but down the road.

Also, yes, it does put unneccessary pressure on a couple parts of your bike: chain, pedals, gears (cogs in the back & front), and--although this is just conjecture/opinion on my part--the BB because the power would push your cranks into a strained angle relative to the axle, putting pressure on the bearings.

Mashing will have more wear and tear on your drive train. on my road bikes i have not had to replace the drive train and it has been 2 full seasons on my new road bike. my mountain bike where i spend ALOT of time mashing i have replaced the drive train twice including sprockets twice front and rear, freewheel twice plus a new rear hub with free wheel. chain twice, one bottom bracket and a set of cranks. all this in 2 and a half seasons. i spend over quadruple the time on my road bikes compared to the mountain bike. hopefully that give you the idea about wear and tear.

Learn to spin. Quit making excuses and learn to spin.

What BB did you have on your bike? Mine was junk after 13000 miles, including the crankset. I replaced it with an Ultegra outboard setup, much better and stiffer.

I try to spin as much as possible or I break chains. The last break bent my frame and took out my rd. Sad panda.

I try to spin as much as possible or I break chains. The last break bent my frame and took out my rd. Sad panda.

i forgot to mention that i broke one of those on a climb on my other mountain bike:lol: all i heard was Pa-ting followed by me slamming into the handle bars.

i forgot to mention that i broke one of those on a climb on my other mountain bike:lol: all i heard was Pa-ting followed by me slamming into the handle bars.

Ouch! :eek:

all i heard was Pa-ting followed by me slamming into the handle bars.

Yeah, sounds about right :D

Thanks for the advice all...I get the spinning part equating to fitness so, question was more mechanical in nature, thanks to those that answered. This helps in my mindset while out on the road and deciding when to shift.

"Quit making excuses and learn to spin."? Who's making excuses? Meet me on the pitch and we'll see who's making excuses :notamused:

Thanks for the advice all...I get the spinning part equating to fitness so, question was more mechanical in nature, thanks to those that answered. This helps in my mindset while out on the road and deciding when to shift.

"Quit making excuses and learn to spin."? Who's making excuses? Meet me on the pitch and we'll see who's making excuses :notamused:

it doesnt relate to fitness as much as it does to form. im horribly out of shape, but i can move the cranks @ 90rpm fairly easily, just with no force behind them. one can learn to spin without being fit, strong, more gooder...

i seriously doubt youre generating enough force to mess up your bb if it was installed correctly. this is not to say your weak, just that theyre fairly durable if kept clean and square it the shell. a defective product might be the culprit.

before i go off on an overly verbose answer, for a question you did not ask, exactly what part stripped?
did you strip the part where the crank meets the bb on the square taper axle...did you round out your aluminium crank? did you strip the threads on the shell?

rugby, yeah baby, yeah (austin powers accent)

Rugby is one of the roughest sports I've ever played. And, that's from a dude who played all 4 years of HS football, both sides of the ball + special teams.

I think the only thing requiring more gusto is trying to ride a p-d off bull while having a chunk of bone sticking out of your broken leg.

rugby is pretty nutty, but the players are the most fun after the game. im not small at 6'1" 250, but im not exactly large, fat yes, brian urlacher no. i was in a lot better shape back in the army @ 185lbs and my team leader wanted me to play some "pickup" rugby with the local samoan rugby team. he was a light 6'4" 285 and was an average sized player. i politely declined.

if im not mistaken, i once saw him lift up the back end of an m1abrams tank, so they could change the track.

he was the only guy ive ever met who could take 20 shots (real shot glass) of tequlia back to back and not have that shake him then, or an hour later. real nice guy, you just didnt want to puch him over the limit, or so i was told.

Yeah, I was talking about pick-up rugby too. We had some boys from jolly old England living in our dorm and they suggested it. I think we mustered up about 7 or 8 guys per side. No real rules, no real strategies.

Playing Rugby reminded me a lot of the game we used play as kids called "smear the queer" (no offense, intended), which basically was a game where everyone tried to cream the guy with the ball. Same idea, just doing it with two teams.

What I remember most about playing was that we just about killed each other.

Boy is there a lot of threads that end up being about big guys breaking stuff...

Too the original question: "do I need to keep from mashing in general or does it not matter"

Is mashing harder on components? Probably a bit but that really depends on the components, all of them not just one. The 180mm three piece cranks with chromoly axle and 5mm thick sprocket on my BMX race cruiser doesn't mind me mashing it at all as it is as stiff as all get out and the chain runs straight. The frame is also incredibly stiff so everything stays in line. However, the light cranks with regular road chainrings on my Kona Dew Deluxe commuter will protest like mad if I do the same thing, the crank arms will flex, the frame will flex, the chain will rub the front derailleur, all sorts of nasty noises will happen.

In my mind the question is really whether or not your bike and components are up to being mashed. A LHT is a chromoly frame with non-spectacular tubing and no additional gusseting or bracing to try to make it stiffer so it is reasonable to assume that it will have a fair bit of flex, which is a good thing from a ride quality standpoint. With a lot of power applied there will likely be a fair amount of flex in the bottom bracket area so even with stiff cranks you will likely see some side to side movement in your chainline. That cannot be a good thing from a wear standpoint.

Boy is there a lot of threads that end up being about big guys breaking stuff...

Too the original question: "do I need to keep from mashing in general or does it not matter"

Is mashing harder on components? Probably a bit but that really depends on the components, all of them not just one. The 180mm three piece cranks with chromoly axle and 5mm thick sprocket on my BMX race cruiser doesn't mind me mashing it at all as it is as stiff as all get out and the chain runs straight. The frame is also incredibly stiff so everything stays in line. However, the light cranks with regular road chainrings on my Kona Dew Deluxe commuter will protest like mad if I do the same thing, the crank arms will flex, the frame will flex, the chain will rub the front derailleur, all sorts of nasty noises will happen.

In my mind the question is really whether or not your bike and components are up to being mashed. A LHT is a chromoly frame with non-spectacular tubing and no additional gusseting or bracing to try to make it stiffer so it is reasonable to assume that it will have a fair bit of flex, which is a good thing from a ride quality standpoint. With a lot of power applied there will likely be a fair amount of flex in the bottom bracket area so even with stiff cranks you will likely see some side to side movement in your chainline. That cannot be a good thing from a wear standpoint.

Unless a frame is AL, there should be a bit of flex, it's one of the reasons people like steel frames. because they flex a little, you don't get as many problems like road buzz, and having you fillings knocked loose on some of the rougher road surfaces.

Mashing isn't good for bicycle components, no matter how good the components, but, as has been alluded to earlier, it's not good for engine components either, A guy who mashes when he is in his 20's may not notice any real problems, until the knees start showing that abuse when he is in his 40's, although modern medical technology means that they can replace those components, it's not a pleasant process, and the replacement components only last about 20 years, so it will need to be done again when your older:eek:.

Personally, I don't see a reason with modern 21+ speed bicycles to need to mash, one just needs to remember to shift properly. A simple way to remember it, is to use the front shifter for ranges of gears:

Low range (small chainring), up hill, moderate to steep grades.
Mid range (middle chainring), up hill slight grade, flats.
High range (large chainring), flats and down hill.

Use the rear shifter to select a proper gear to maintain a roughly 80 - 90 RPM at the pedals, if your not sure of the RPM get a bike computer with cadence, there are some as cheap as $20 now, a good idea for an inexperienced rider, who needs to learn to turn the pedals faster. To use a motoring term, 80-90RPM is your power band, it's where you get the highest performance for the least fuel, you want to stay in the power band as much as possible.

The question to me when I read this thread is that it always seems there's some hills I encounter where the only option is "mashing" to get up the hill without walking the bike. And even shifting down into the lower gear on front still doesn't matter - it's the same force involved it seems, and spinning almost equates to mashing. Of course, add to that the winds that seem to be prevalent this time of year where you have to spin down hills and it's just not easy.

The question to me when I read this thread is that it always seems there's some hills I encounter where the only option is "mashing" to get up the hill without walking the bike. And even shifting down into the lower gear on front still doesn't matter - it's the same force involved it seems, and spinning almost equates to mashing. Of course, add to that the winds that seem to be prevalent this time of year where you have to spin down hills and it's just not easy.

My first thought - you're doing it wrong :p

What speed bike do you have? If I put it in my smallest chainring in front and biggest in back when I "mash" I almost have to concentrate on not doing a wheelie. If anything going up really big hills in the smaller ring is tiring because every rotation doesn't get you very far. If you're on a double then I could see that but even at that gear you're not mashing - just pushing.

Mashing is more brute strength - extreme example having it in the biggest in front/smallest in back and try to sprint from a standstill. Smaller the gear in the back from a physics standpoint gives the most stress on everything. Smaller gear in the front is easiest on everything but doesn't get you very far ;)

Hi,
Maybe this has already been mentioned, anyway here are my comments. Do you use cycling shoes and clipless pedals like look time speedplay etc? If so then you can train your self to pedal in more of a circular motion- it won't be fully circular but you can start by really concentrating on pulling back and kicking over the top of the pedal stroke. This will really help in smoothing things out for you. I'd do this on solo rides, starting with maybe the distance between one or two telephone poles. You'll discover leg muscles you didm't know you had!!!

Now a comment on spinning up hills. ALL HILLS SUCK!!! But try the pedaling style I described at first on smaller hills, it should help you. As your pedal action smooths out there should be less equipment damage.

Ed (261max, now 222)

P.s To each his own but you may want to explore a steel frame for your next bike.

The question to me when I read this thread is that it always seems there's some hills I encounter where the only option is "mashing" to get up the hill without walking the bike. And even shifting down into the lower gear on front still doesn't matter - it's the same force involved it seems, and spinning almost equates to mashing. Of course, add to that the winds that seem to be prevalent this time of year where you have to spin down hills and it's just not easy.

If your bike has a double, it's possibly geared too high for you, find out how many teeth are in your each chainring, and in each rear sprocket. then go here (http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/index.html) plug in all the numbers. select gear inches, It will give you a chart of values.

Gear inches is how far you travel with one revolution of the crank, you want around 20 GI for your lowest gear, on mountain bikes 16 or 17 can sometimes be found. Some road bikes though only get down to around 25 or so.

Thanks all. My bike is steel (reason I got the Surly Long Haul) with it's stock components and I haven't yet gotten the cyclocomputer but that's next on my list to see what my cadence is. Haven't found clipless yet to fit me plus I am still figuring out by saddle/grip heights...they may come soon as well though since I also have a short commute I think I'll keep the dual style pedals like the Shimano M234's so I can vary.

Okay seems the consesus is, "Not great, do it less if you can for many reasons, though it should stand up to a lil pushing."

Oh, yes all the rumors of rugby players are true...I could tell you a few hundred stories. Though as a queer who prefers to smear the straights and then outdrink 'em...this is also why I need a sport that doesn't necessitate a dozen beers and a quart of whiskey to heal the cuts and bruises. Hey, I'm a clyde :D

Ride on!

Hats off to ya, Mr. Rugby Man. :thumb:

Back in the mid-90's, "in the Boston area" there was an amateur team whom had pro teams and national teams (All Blacks) from other parts of the world show up to play against them on a local highschool football field as an "exhibition." (It was rumored that these games were punishments for teams that didn't live up to expectations.)

Turns out, they're mostly semi-pro players gone harder and meaner: Irish terrorists and white South African war criminals hiding out on ill-gotten work visas. And one tough little black guy from Roxbury - professional computer network engineer, five-foot-nothing, built like a city fire hydrant, and was about as indestructable. He tried to recruit me at work, as they needed someone tall and nigh-indestrcutable. I was tall, but the team decided to test the nigh-indestructable part by inviting me out on a "Booze-Cruise" - a cruise around Boston Harbor, with local Ska bands playing on the top deck, with dollar drafts and dollar shots. I was the only one to walk off the boat under his own power, so I was in...

I never did find the time to join, too busy building the internets for phantom stock options. One of my keenest regrets.

Hm, I started life post-college playing in Boston late 90's with some of these fellows and been on a few of those cruises too. Topper is the one where a mate dove off the top deck way out wearing only boxers...they shut down Boston Harbor for the first time in 44 years looking for him.

Turns out he had swam back and was in a bar in Faneuil Hall. But I digress...

In case anyone thinks we oversell the Rugby toughness:

http://sportzfun.com/photos/albums/rugby/rugbyeyegouge2.jpg