Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Advice needed for Soma Smoothie ES vs. Soma Double Cross

I’ve done the searches on BF, but am looking for advice from the experienced long distance folks. I’m an ex-recreational-roadie, but a current commuter and utility cyclist looking to get into long distance cycling. I’d like to build a steel bike for recreational and long distance riding.

I have a Orbea Marmolada size 51 (aluminum and carbon fiber) which fits me fine -- I’m stretched out just a little, but I like to error towards that position on a bike. My seat is 1½ inches above the bars. My Orbea's geometry is as follows:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/3411259678_330781226b_o.jpg



I've looked at several bikes, but have settled on Soma (http://www.somafab.com/frames_main.html). Based mostly on the “Effective” Top Tube lengths, I’ve settled on either a Soma Smoothie ES size 50cm or Soma Double Cross size 46cm. Their geometries are as follows:


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/3410437183_f8676ba8a8_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3328/3411247716_39824a2278_o.jpg



Where I need advice:

I’m 5’ 7”, 160 pounds, with an inseam of 29¾ inches (inseam used to measure for a bike). My Orbea size 51 Effective Top Tube length is 535mm and fits me fine, but as mentioned, my seat is 1½ inches above the bars and I’m stretched out just a touch.

The Soma Smoothie ES size 50cm has a 524mm Effective TT and the Soma Double Cross size 46cm has a 531mm Effective TT. (Figure going shorter with the top tube is better, as I can simply use a longer stem if needed.) Head tube length is 110mm on both, though bottom bracket drop is 70mm for the Smoothie ES and 66mm for the Double Cross.

My inseam will just be maxed out with the Smoothie ES size 50cm, but all other measurements seem to be okay. I’ll be under my inseam with the Double Cross size 46cm, and the other measurements seem fine, but it’s a cross bike with a higher bottom bracket.

I assume if it's close, inseam isn’t a big deal, but I know some folks say “Don’t get a cross bike unless you’re riding cross…” Though, we’re talking a 4mm difference here in bottom brackets.

Of course, riding a frame is the best test, but with the information given, which would be the best for long distance riding? The road sport oriented Soma Smoothie ES size 50cm or the Soma Double Cross size 46cm?

Thanks for any help.

Raise the stem on your Orbea and ride your butt off.

Raise the stem on your Orbea and ride your butt off.

I would agree with this advice. Start riding long distance on your current bike and find out what works for you and what doesn't and what you'd like to have different about your bike. Many people on the Long Distance forum are randonneurs, a noncompetitive sport where people ride very long distances over long periods of time, but have to maintain an overall minimum pace. So they learn a lot about what works well in all sorts of weather and road conditions. People come to different conclusions about what works for them, so no matter how much advice you get, the only way you'll find out for sure is by going out there and learning.

For me ... I like carrying a fair amount of the load in a handlebar bag, so if I were buying a new bike I'd lean heavily toward getting a Kogswell Porteur/Randonneur ($600) which is designed for front loads. Handlebar bag is extremely convenient! Running bigger tires (like 700x32) helps a lot with hand-numbness or foot-numbness issues, as the tires absorb so much more of the road shock. I like Panaracer Paselas ($14) or Grand Bois Cypres (700x30). Fenders are a big plus.

Nick

I'd lean heavily toward getting a Kogswell Porteur/Randonneur ($600)

I'm going to sell my Orbea, though randonneuring is what I had in mind and that Kogswell (http://www.kogswell.com/) P/R looks great. Thanks.

I use a 2008 Soma Double Cross bike and it’s been great.

Based on the info provided, I would go with the Double Cross in the 48cm size and use the same stem length as your road bike but use a zero offset seatpost to position the seat correctly.

I worked with the bike fitters at Get-a-Grip in Chicago. After considering the Smoothie ES, we went with the Double cross with a short stem and an zero offset seat post on a oversized frame. Details are here: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=470912

I wanted the fit dialed in for long distance comfort and a size 60 was selected with a 110 size stem. I'm only 6'0" and a 34.3" inseam.

See here: http://getagripcycles.com/page.cfm?pageID=93

The goal during the fitting was check the angles of the ankles, knees, hips, shoulders elbows & wrists as I rode upon a test bike. These were measured both while I was stationary and also by camera while pedaling.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/adam_fit.jpg

After measuring my physical dimensions and range of motion, Adam was confident that fitting me to a bike would not be problematic. It was explained that the rider is positioned on the bike at three points, the pedals, the seat and the handlebars. Position those points correctly and the rider is comfortable, efficient and fast.

The Soma Double Cross in either a 58 or 60 frames size could be made to fit, but the 60 was closer to ideal. The fitting revealed that the 58 size would have required a well extended seatpost with rearward offset, this would have put my hips rearward of the ideal position to drive the crank. The solution was the 60cm frame size. The seatpost selected would have a zero offset to put the hips in the right place over the BB. The handlebars would be positioned by a 110mm stem positioned at a normal height above the tall Soma headtube.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/Somasilver020.jpg

I use a 2008 Soma Double Cross bike and it’s been great.

Based on the info provided, I would go with the Double Cross in the 48cm size and use the same stem length as your road bike but use a zero offset seatpost to position the seat correctly.

I worked with the bike fitters at Get-a-Grip in Chicago. After considering the Smoothie ES, we went with the Double cross with a short stem and an offset seat post on a oversized frame. Details are here: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=470912

I wanted the fit dialed in for long distance comfort and a size 60 was selected with a 110 size stem. I'm only 6'0" and a 34.3" inseam.

See here: http://getagripcycles.com/page.cfm?pageID=93 ...


Many thanks for your post and links! Lots of great information that will be helpful. I appreciate it. Great to see somebody dialing a Double Cross for long distance comfort.

Many thanks for your post and links! Lots of great information that will be helpful. I appreciate it. Great to see somebody dialing a Double Cross for long distance comfort.

Just a few more details. The 700x28 (or smaller) tires will improve standover clearance. The zero offset seatpost can effectively shorten the reach, "shortening" the top tube.

I purchased a doner bike to keep costs low. Buying a new bike complete and parting it out was cheaper than sourcing everything on eBay, and takes less time.

Michael

I don't think you can go wrong either way. That said:

I use a cross bike as well (Surly Cross Check). Works out fine, but the main thing to keep in mind is your planned usage. Non-racing cross frames like the Soma DC are more of an "all-around" setup, so they're versatile -- commuting, touring, long distance, packed dirt or non-technical off-road and so forth. The ride is very similar to a typical road bike, but the slightly higher BB does change the character of the ride to a small degree.

The hitch is that the bike doesn't necessarily excel at any one particular task, except maybe commuting. E.g. a true touring bike will be better for touring, a standard road frame is a little better for fast club rides, an MTB frame is better for off-road, and so forth.

So I'd say if you're going to use the bike for multiple purposes, or just want to be ready for any kind of surface, go Cross. If all you plan to do with that specific bike is LD, Smoothie ES may be better.

So I'd say if you're going to use the bike for multiple purposes, or just want to be ready for any kind of surface, go Cross. If all you plan to do with that specific bike is LD, Smoothie ES may be better.

I have to concur. I wanted a bike that would fit almost any size tire and feel unbreakable. I am on pavement 99% of the time, but the potholes and broken glass in Chicago are bad enough to require the tough wheels and tires currently installed. I'm going to add a faster set of wheels and tires for suburban summer riding.

Another feature, besides the tire clearance was the disc brake flange. This is another potential future upgrade.

Having said that, I will possibly add a light touring bike at some point. But for one bike that can do-it-all, the Double Cross is great.

Michael

Raise the stem on your Orbea and ride your butt off.

I would agree with this advice. Start riding long distance on your current bike and find out what works for you and what doesn't and what you'd like to have different about your bike...

I think this is great advice. If you haven't already, I'd suggest getting a few brevets under your belt on any bike so you can find out does and doesn't work for you.

I'm two brevets into my first season and that tiny bit of experience has already significantly changed my ideas about what makes a good long distance/Randonneuring bike.

Barrettscv: How many 600K's or 1200K's have you finished on that bike? While there are some randonneurs who could ride the long rides on a bike set up like that, I think they'd be few and far between. For randonneuring, the handlebars are unusually low relative to the saddle -- you'd be courting Shermer's Neck and numb hands in a big way. For racing, that position works fine because the counterrotating torque generated by your legs transmits through your back muscles to keep the weight off your hands. And they're only out there for a few hours so Shermer's neck isn't a problem. But for rando, three days into a grand randonnee you are not generating much counterrotating torque so all your upper body weight is on your hands. And holding your head up at 90 degrees does not work well.

That's why the first response to this thread said "Raise the stem ..."

Maybe your fitter was not trying to get you fitted for long distance. But I've always been hesitant to go to a fitter because nearly all of them in my area are wannabe-racer kids (i.e. anyone under about 35 from my perspective) who have never ridden serious long distance (i.e. more than a double century in a day). They have no idea what they're doing when it comes to setting up a rider for the serious miles. Fortunately, one of the randonneurs in our club spent many years working as a fitter (but has since changed careers), and since he also rides LD he knows what he is doing and was kind enough to arrange a fit session for my wife when she started randonneuring. I'm in my fifth year of rando, and basically figured out the right fit on my own based on articles on fit, comments from friends, and avoidance of injuries. My buddy said it looks like I'm already fit properly, so no need for a fit session for me.

The basic tradeoff is between being aero by being stretched out, and being comfortable by having the handlebars higher. You only find the optimum by riding long miles. Changes in bar height affect to some extent where your saddle fore-aft position and angle need to be so that you are balanced when you take your hands off the bars.

Nick

Barrettscv: How many 600K's or 1200K's have you finished on that bike? While there are some randonneurs who could ride the long rides on a bike set up like that, I think they'd be few and far between. For randonneuring, the handlebars are unusually low relative to the saddle -- you'd be courting Shermer's Neck and numb hands in a big way. For racing, that position works fine because the counterrotating torque generated by your legs transmits through your back muscles to keep the weight off your hands. And they're only out there for a few hours so Shermer's neck isn't a problem. But for rando, three days into a grand randonnee you are not generating much counterrotating torque so all your upper body weight is on your hands. And holding your head up at 90 degrees does not work well.

That's why the first response to this thread said "Raise the stem ..."

Maybe your fitter was not trying to get you fitted for long distance. But I've always been hesitant to go to a fitter because nearly all of them in my area are wannabe-racer kids (i.e. anyone under about 35 from my perspective) who have never ridden serious long distance (i.e. more than a double century in a day). They have no idea what they're doing when it comes to setting up a rider for the serious miles. Fortunately, one of the randonneurs in our club spent many years working as a fitter (but has since changed careers), and since he also rides LD he knows what he is doing and was kind enough to arrange a fit session for my wife when she started randonneuring. I'm in my fifth year of rando, and basically figured out the right fit on my own based on articles on fit, comments from friends, and avoidance of injuries. My buddy said it looks like I'm already fit properly, so no need for a fit session for me.

The basic tradeoff is between being aero by being stretched out, and being comfortable by having the handlebars higher. You only find the optimum by riding long miles. Changes in bar height affect to some extent where your saddle fore-aft position and angle need to be so that you are balanced when you take your hands off the bars.

Nick

At least I can offer my experience with Soma bikes.

The OP wants an all purpose bike that can also do longer rides, read the original post. It also sounds like the Orbea bike is no longer an option. Most riders who do ultra long rides should use a special purpose bike, I agree as stated.

Cheers,

Michael

At least I can offer my experience with Soma bikes.

The OP wants an all purpose bike that can also do longer rides, read the original post. It also sounds like the Orbea bike is no longer an option. Most riders who do ultra long rides should use a special purpose bike, I agree as stated.

Cheers,

Michael

No criticism of you was intended, by the way. But since you were implicitly recommending your fitter, I wanted to know whether he was intending to set the bike up for LD or whether you had ridden LD on it.

The SOMA bikes/frames seem really nice. I was "that much" away from buying a Smoothie ES when someone sold me their used Rambouillet for just about the same price--a deal that couldn't be refused. The ES would be very nice for randonneuring. Don't know about riding a cross bike since I've never tried. I'd say "how much difference could a cm or less of BB height make" except that I know that in other dimensions, changing by a mm can easily be felt. Anyway, others seem to ride cross bikes for rando with success. As your fitter points out, what is required is that the hands/butt/feet interface be set correctly. I've ridden about a dozen different bicycles on brevets, and they were all fine to ride, given that the hands/butt/feet were set identically.

Best,

Nick