Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Another bike that does not fit- Nishiki Professional

I picked up another bike that doesn’t fit me. A 63cm Nishiki Professional. At least think it is professional, it is hard to read. The serial number on the bike is KA 14543. I have no idea what year it might be.

The bike is light, but does not have stickers indicating what tubing it might have been. The one downside is that there are a considerable number of rust spots on the frame. Some look pretty bad.

The front derailleur, cranks, and shifters all say campagnolo on them. The hubs say campagnolo record, the front rim is araya, and the rear rim is mavic. The brakes and brake levers are campagnolo.

The stem and bars are both cinelli. The saddle is a s.marco supercorsa. The pedals are shimano PD-M515.

The one thing that does not seem to fit is a rear derailleur - it is a suntour cyclone 7000. The rear is a six speed.

There are several problems with the bike. First, is that the front derailleur does not shift. It was on the small chain ring when I got it, and it shifted to the large, but it won’t shift back. Can anyone tell me how to adjust it? Or at least ID the front derailleur so I can do a search.

The second problem is that “arm” on the rear derailleur hits the spokes when it is moved to the largest chain ring in the back. I looked at it, and it appears as though the “arm” might be bent. Or maybe the whole thing is just not on straight. Any ideas as what to do?

Third question—are those pedals possibly still any good? I have never used clipless pedals, but I am thinking about trying it. If I could get cleats for those pedals I might try it.

Fourth—what should I do about all the rust?

Finally—what might this thing be worth? I paid 20 bucks for it at goodwill. Keep in mind that frame has many large (quarter size) rust spots. I am going to try and get it working ok, and then loan it to my tall friend for use in our upcoming sprint triathlon at the end of May. He was otherwise going to use his wife’s beach cruiser (he is a cheap *****). I figure I will flip it after that, or sell it to him if he likes it. But I want to have an idea what it might be worth before I do that.

Thanks again for helping a newbie

Jared

It doesn't fit you.... I'm assuming it's too big of a frame?

I'd tear it all apart and use the Campy stuff for another build, or sell it off piece meal.

How come I can't find anything like that around here? You got a super score with that. The parts alone are worth a few hundred bucks easily on Ebay. All of the Campagnolo parts I see all seem to be Nuovo Record. It was the top of the line stuff in the early 70's and then "second best" after Super Record came out.

The front derailleur problem could be as simple as some lube and/or a new cable. The cable needs to move freely through the housing. Disconnect the cable for the front derailleur and turn the cranks. If it is the cable it should drop down to the small chainring. If it doesn't the front derailleur is probably a little rusty and not moving like it should. Hit it with some bike lube and by hand move the cage back and forth (like the cable would). This should fix the problem.

As for the rear derailleur you first need to make sure the derailleur hanger isn't bet. There is a tool to see that. Check when in the smallest cog in the rear. does the cage of the derailleur looked angled when viewed from the rear? If it is the hanger could be bent and so could the cage of the derailleur. If you don't have the know how and/or tools for the job you might want to take it to a LBS and have them look over the rear derailleur. If the hanger is bent it can be straightened easily. If the cage is bent usually that can be fixed by bending it back as well.

P.S. Nice Warn 8274 winch on the front of the 'Yota.

It doesn't fit you.... I'm assuming it's too big of a frame?

I'd tear it all apart and use the Campy stuff for another build, or sell it off piece meal.

Yeah, it is too big for me. In fact, I already have a 61cm Schwinn Circuit, the subject of another thread, that is really too big for me. But I am trying to make that one work.

I don't know if I have the know how to part it out.

Jared

I suggest you read a lot of sheldon brown before you attempt any more work on the bike.

How come I can't find anything like that around here? You got a super score with that. The parts alone are worth a few hundred bucks easily on Ebay. All of the Campagnolo parts I see all seem to be Nuovo Record. It was the top of the line stuff in the early 70's and then "second best" after Super Record came out.

Wow, I did not expect that.


The front derailleur problem could be as simple as some lube and/or a new cable. The cable needs to move freely through the housing. Disconnect the cable for the front derailleur and turn the cranks. If it is the cable it should drop down to the small chainring. If it doesn't the front derailleur is probably a little rusty and not moving like it should. Hit it with some bike lube and by hand move the cage back and forth (like the cable would). This should fix the problem.

There is no cable housing for the front derailleur. It is bare all the way from the shifters to the derailleur. There are some guides on the frame for it.



As for the rear derailleur you first need to make sure the derailleur hanger isn't bet. There is a tool to see that. Check when in the smallest cog in the rear. does the cage of the derailleur looked angled when viewed from the rear? If it is the hanger could be bent and so could the cage of the derailleur. If you don't have the know how and/or tools for the job you might want to take it to a LBS and have them look over the rear derailleur. If the hanger is bent it can be straightened easily. If the cage is bent usually that can be fixed by bending it back as well.

I took a look at this. There is something funky. At first I thought the hanger was bent. But after looking at closer it looks like the derailleur is not fitting flush up against the hanger. I am not sure why. I tried to snug it down, but it was already tight. Can I just take off the derailleur and see if something is keeping it from snugging down flush with the hanger?



P.S. Nice Warn 8274 winch on the front of the 'Yota.

Yes, an 8274 Warn on a 80 series landcruiser. Both are two of the best ever. IMHO.

Jared

I don't know if I have the know how to part it out.
Chain breaker & some allen wrenches should get most of it, if not all of it.
It's really easy to tear one apart. Putting one back together (correctly)... not so much! :thumb:

You're in Mesa??? I'm in Tempe. You can come over to my house and I can help you out.

Chain breaker & some allen wrenches should get most of it, if not all of it.
It's really easy to tear one apart. Putting one back together (correctly)... not so much! :thumb:

It is not so much the taking it apart, as the correctly identifying and characterizing all the parts. I would probably get in trouble selling something that didn't work right or wasn't quite what I said it was. If I sell, I would rather just sell the whole bike to someone local who could check it out in person. Let someone with more knowledge piece it out.

But first I really want to make it work well enough for my cheap ***** friend to use it in one 15 mile sprint tri.

Jared

Still, you can bring it over and I'll show you what to do to get it running right. I'm happy to help.

You're in Mesa??? I'm in Tempe. You can come over to my house and I can help you out.

Yeah I am Mesa. Thanks for the offer-- if and when I get over my head I might just take you up on that.

You know there is a bike swap meet on Sunday in Tempe? I was planning on going, but only to get rid of some parts I have lying around.

Jared

It is not so much the taking it apart, as the correctly identifying and characterizing all the parts. I would probably get in trouble selling something that didn't work right or wasn't quite what I said it was. If I sell, I would rather just sell the whole bike to someone local who could check it out in person. Let someone with more knowledge piece it out.

But first I really want to make it work well enough for my cheap ***** friend to use it in one 15 mile sprint tri.

Jared

If you do piece it out, just take a lot of pictures, making sure that any engravings/labels on the parts are readable. Ebay buyers will figure it out and ask you any questions if there is any doubt, it is a very efficient marketplace. I've had a lot of things go for a lot more money than I ever expected because some collector community out there immediately recognized the part I was selling.

OK, I loosened the mounting bolt the derailleur and tightened it back up. And the derailleur arm no longer hits the spokes. But it is still close to the spokes, and it still doesn't look straight, so I doubt I really fixed it. There seems to be a lot of the play in the whole derailleur even with the mounting bolt snugged up tight. Play that lets it move back and forth (toward and away from the wheel). I am not sure if that is really normal. I will compare to the other bikes sitting in garage.

Jared

I suggest you read a lot of sheldon brown before you attempt any more work on the bike.

Excellent advice. I went to his site, and found the instructions for adjusting the front derailleur. After figuring out that the my cable was to adjusted to be short, and following his instructions on the high and low limit stops, the front derailleur works great.

But now my rear derailleur is in the spokes again when on biggest gear.:mad:

Jared

But now my rear derailleur is in the spokes again when on biggest gear.
This can be fixed. :thumb:

I suggest you read a lot of sheldon brown before you attempt any more work on the bike.

While I'm sure you mean well here, if you're going to come down on someone new like that it would be kind to supply a little more guidance re: what it is you think they should study. Maybe with some actual hyperlinks. That was a little harsh.

EDIT:

On the other hand....



Excellent advice. I went to his site, and found the instructions for adjusting the front derailleur. After figuring out that the my cable was to adjusted to be short, and following his instructions on the high and low limit stops, the front derailleur works great.


maybe a little harshness is effective.

From the pics, I suspected a bent dropout hanger, not a bent cage, as the whole body appears twisted. From your description, the Suntour RD's mounting bolt is loose in the upper body. The bolt should have a corresponding slotted 'nut' that can be adjusted to tune out any play. This 'nut' butts up against the hanger once installed. There should also be a small screw to trim the angle of the RD in relation to the angle of the freewheel cogs.

Of course, the Suntour could have been damaged sometime in its past.

Looks like you have a Campy Super Record FD. Sweet!

If those SPD pedals spin smooth and have no slop in the axles, you're good to go, just buy some replacement cleats.
515's were entry level pedals, if they have signs of wear, toss them. To disassemble the axles requires a special Shimano spline tool.


You gotta tell me about this Goodwill shop. :D

problem is that even with pictures, talking somebody through a procedure with text takes a LOT longer than just showing somebody in person, plus they get their hands dirty and develop a feel for things you have to "feel" to get right, so it's priceless. In other words: you will learn more and get it done faster and better if you take the bike to somebody skilled and patient with teaching (let's assume that describes frpax) than you will by back-n-forth postings to this forum, no matter how good our members are at this (and they ARE good). Sheldon is the next-best option if you don't have a frpax in the neighborhood.
Oh, BTW, for $20 you STOLE that bike, great find!

That could be a Nishiki Ultimate. Mine is a 1981 (maybe 1982) according to the components. If the dropouts are Campag, that would clinch it. My s/n is KA 14364.

http://www.execulink.com/%7Ejohnb2/pix/ultimate1.jpg
http://www.execulink.com/%7Ejohnb2/pix/ultimate2.jpg

maybe a little harshness is effective.

It certainly worked

Jared

That could be a Nishiki Ultimate. Mine is a 1981 (maybe 1982) according to the components. If the dropouts are Campag, that would clinch it. My s/n is KA 14364.

http://www.execulink.com/%7Ejohnb2/pix/ultimate1.jpg
http://www.execulink.com/%7Ejohnb2/pix/ultimate2.jpg

That looks just like this bike. The colors are identical. The wording on the top tube is "profes" (the rest of the letters cannot read), so maybe they just switched the names around. Although from my serial number this one is an 81 as well.

And the dropouts are campy on this bike.

What else do you know about the frame?

Jared

From the pics, I suspected a bent dropout hanger, not a bent cage, as the whole body appears twisted. From your description, the Suntour RD's mounting bolt is loose in the upper body.


Yeah, that describes it pretty well.



The bolt should have a corresponding slotted 'nut' that can be adjusted to tune out any play. This 'nut' butts up against the hanger once installed. There should also be a small screw to trim the angle of the RD in relation to the angle of the freewheel cogs.


I will look into this.



You gotta tell me about this Goodwill shop. :D

Main and Stapley in Mesa.

Jared

That looks just like this bike. The colors are identical. The wording on the top tube is "profes" (the rest of the letters cannot read), so maybe they just switched the names around. Although from my serial number this one is an 81 as well.

And the dropouts are campy on this bike.

What else do you know about the frame?

Jared
I bought this bike new at the LBS back around 1982 or so. It never appeared in the Nishiki catalogue. Around that time Nishiki had another undocumented high end bike with the frame made by Colnago called the Maxima (I saw a frame at the LBS) and one other one that starts with a "C" I believe.

As you can see, the angles on mine are relatively slack, probably because it's a 21". Don't know the tubing, other than it's double butted chrome moly and the bike weighs 20.5 pounds.

http://www.execulink.com/%7Ejohnb2/pix/ultimate3.jpg

Holy cow, great find! I will give you 40.00...double your money :innocent:

Since the frame doesn't fit keep the nice campy parts and sell the frame. It shouldn't be hard to find a frame in your size, you can use the money you make from the nishiki.

I would take the offer of help, the more I learn the more I catch my own mistakes. The stuff you have is valuable on the market so I wouldn't risk it.

If you part it out I'll take the front derailleur.

If you decide to part it out, how much would you want to sell the frame for? I'd be very interested if the price is right. I used to have a 63 cm Nishiki and it fit me perfectly.

I messed around with rear derailleur some more and got it out of the spokes. I still think the hanger might be a tad bent, or the derailleur might be a little loose in the housing, but it is working just fine now.

I appreciate all the interest in the parts, but it will be a few months before I get to the point. Like I said, I am going to offer it to a friend to use in our little sprint tri

But I want to do a little more rust prevention before I loan it out.

I have seen some threads on this-- that recommend some sort of oxalic acid to remove rust.

On my old landcruiser I used a product called "metal ready"-- made by a company called Por-15. I understand that Metal Ready was a type of acid. It turned rust black and slowed it down considerably. I wonder if that is the same as the oxalic acid I have seen discussed on this forum?

The good news is that the rust is just at the surface. So even though it appears to have a lot (from an arizona perspective), I think it is still in decent shape.

Jared

PS: I don't know why they moved this thread since it seems to 90% tech, and 10% value. Did I break some sort of rules here?

I messed around with rear derailleur some more and got it out of the spokes. I still think the hanger might be a tad bent, or the derailleur might be a little loose in the housing, but it is working just fine now.

I appreciate all the interest in the parts, but it will be a few months before I get to the point. Like I said, I am going to offer it to a friend to use in our little sprint tri

But I want to do a little more rust prevention before I loan it out.

I have seen some threads on this-- that recommend some sort of oxalic acid to remove rust.

On my old landcruiser I used a product called "metal ready"-- made by a company called Por-15. I understand that Metal Ready was a type of acid. It turned rust black and slowed it down considerably. I wonder if that is the same as the oxalic acid I have seen discussed on this forum?

The good news is that the rust is just at the surface. So even though it appears to have a lot (from an arizona perspective), I think it is still in decent shape.

Jared

PS: I don't know why they moved this thread since it seems to 90% tech, and 10% value. Did I break some sort of rules here?

Oxalic is not the same. The Metal Ready product is phosphoric acid based (I think). You can buy a similar product at Walmart for about $6 in the auto paint area. Does nothing about removing rust, it converts it. Oxalic is great for chrome areas, as well as internal rust and larger rust areas. The rust converter products are good for treating small external areas that will then be painted. I use both, depending on the bike, the amount of rust, etc.

I appreciate all the interest in the parts, but it will be a few months before I get to the point.

That's okay.

I'll wait.



http://www.haryana-online.com/images/Birds/Szabolcs/Red-headed_vulture.jpg

Ok, I need to resurrect this old thread. We completed our little sprint tri, and we are going to do another one. My friend used the old nishiki and likes it. He was pretty dang fast the bike.

But my wife won't let me give it away. And I have to pay off my other bike debts to the bank account.

I paid 20 bucks for the bike. I put 50 dollars worth of new tires and tubes on it. Is 200 bucks a fair "friend" price for the complete bike? It actually seems a little high, given the condition of the frame. 150?

My other option is to strip the campy components, sell those seperately, and sell my friend the frame for cheap. What is a good price for the frame? And I wonder how much I could get for the rest?

I am actually fighting the urge to strip and down and have it repainted, and find a matching campy rear derailler. I must fight that urge to restore a bike that is 5cm too big for me.

Jared

Can I resurrect a long dead thread?

To make a long story short, I offered this great, but ugly bike to my friend for a 100 bucks. And he turned it down. Keep in mind that it had 50 bucks in brand new conti tires and tubes on it. He is a bit of a chowder head.

So I am likely going to sell it. In fact, I have someone that is expressing interest in buying it. He says it is worth restoring. I agree. But I really don't know what to ask for it.

Here are the details again.

It is a Nishiki professional. The serial number on the bike is KA 14543. From the serial number I think it is a 1981 bike.

At one time, I thought it was an "ONP" Nishki, but it does not have the cutout K in the bottom bracket that ONP bikes have, but it has a W stamped into the bottom bracket. And it has Campy dropouts. I saw where some said this was better than the ONP frames, but that may be debatable.

The front derailleur, cranks, and shifters all say campagnolo on them. The brakes and brake levers are campagnolo.

The stem and bars are both cinelli. The saddle is a s.marco supercorsa.

The rear derailleur is a suntour cyclone 7000. I don't think it is original. The rear is a six speed.

The hubs say campagnolo record, the front rim is araya, and the rear rim is mavic. They are clinchers, so I don't think they are original. I think it should have had tubulars, but I don't know for sure.

The Frame is in rough shape it is a bunch of significant rust spots. See the pictures at my photobucket site:

http://s624.photobucket.com/albums/t...0Professional/

Now I know that if I wanted to maximize dollars I should probably just part it out and sell the individual components on ebay. But I really don't want that.

Instead, the guy I am likely going to sell it to says he will repair the frame and restore it. I want to sell it a fair price so they guy can afford to fix it up right. And I understand that if a bike needs 400 bucks in labor to make it worth 500, it is isn't worth 500 today.

But I don't want to give it away. After all, in its current state is a perfectly functional road bike.

And to make it really annoying, I can't find any of these things for sale or being sold. They must not be that common. I can't find much info on them at all.

So I am looking for real specific advice? What should I ask for it?

Jared

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0335Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0363Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0362Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0353Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0352Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0348Large.jpg

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/DSC_0345Large.jpg

I have a similar Nishiki, same year, but it's called an ULTIMATE. Serial number KA 14364. I bought it new and it originally came with Campagnolo clincher rims, but I had those swapped out for Nisi tubular rims. The RD is Nouvo Record, which is what your's probably should have been. Your aero brake levers are also probably not original. The missing pedals should also be Campag. Unfortunately, these Nishikis don't have a cult following like Colnagos or Masis of similar vintage and quality, so a $500 paint job would be a waste of money if you're going to flip it, unless you can do all the work yourself.

http://www.execulink.com/~johnb2/pix/ultimate2.jpg

I have a similar Nishiki, same year, but it's called an ULTIMATE. Serial number KA 14364. I bought it new and it originally came with Campagnolo clincher rims, but I had those swapped out for Nisi tubular rims. The RD is Nouvo Record, which is what your's probably should have been. Your aero brake levers are also probably not original. The missing pedals should also be Campag. Unfortunately, these Nishikis don't have a cult following like Colnagos or Masis of similar vintage and quality, so a $500 paint job would be a waste of money if you're going to flip it, unless you can do all the work yourself.



Our serial numbers are really close. I still wonder why the different names, when they are otherwise clearly very similar.

I have searched the web as best I can, and these are just about the only two bikes I can find like that. I find references that implied "Dave Ross" has a 81 Nishiki Professional, but the site wooljersey is down and I can't find pictures of it. I found only a couple of references to Nishiki Ultimate either-- other than yours.

Truly disturbing.

Jared

Dave's Professional (at least the one I know about) is much earlier, I had a similar one to his back when they were new...actually I think your later Nishikis are better bikes. (but don't tell Dave ;)) He may have a later one, too, since he's a bit of a Nishiki collector.
Jared: it's a tough call since your frame is so chipped and rusty, but it IS a diamond in the rough for somebody who wants to invest time and elbow grease (and $$) to polish it up...and the components are nothing to sneeze at.
But your potential market will be small, so...ask $250 and see what your buyer says.
you could easily get that (more) if you strip it and sell off piecemeal, but you'll put in a lot of hours and pay a lot of little fees that eat away your profit, too.

Dave's Professional (at least the one I know about) is much earlier, I had a similar one to his back when they were new...actually I think your later Nishikis are better bikes. (but don't tell Dave ;)) He may have a later one, too, since he's a bit of a Nishiki collector.
Jared: it's a tough call since your frame is so chipped and rusty, but it IS a diamond in the rough for somebody who wants to invest time and elbow grease (and $$) to polish it up...and the components are nothing to sneeze at.
But your potential market will be small, so...ask $250 and see what your buyer says.
you could easily get that (more) if you strip it and sell off piecemeal, but you'll put in a lot of hours and pay a lot of little fees that eat away your profit, too.

Thanks for the info. I actually got a hold of Dave, and he does have a 81 professional. It has been repainted, but is otherwise just like this bike. He sent me a few pictures. He also sent me this catalog page. The catalog page says the professional was the top of the line. It also confirms that the brake levers on my bike were not original.

Jared

http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt327/oldarizona/Nishiki%20Professional/NishikiProfessionalLarge.jpg

Jared, it looks like Nishiki sold the same bike as the Professional and the Ultimate in different markets. It was the Ultimate in Canada. That looks just like mine, all Campag with a 3TTT stem. Mine weighs 20.5 lbs. I would be very interested to see any other pages in the catalogue pertaining to this model.

[edit] I just noticed that the Professional in the picture has clamp on cable guides, while ours are braze-ons.

Ok, I need to resurrect this old thread. We completed our little sprint tri, and we are going to do another one.

I paid 20 bucks for the bike. I put 50 dollars worth of new tires and tubes on it. Is 200 bucks a fair "friend" price for the complete bike? It actually seems a little high, given the condition of the frame. 150?


Jared Great job on the sprint tri. They are fun. As a bike nerd and former runner, I can also vouch for the Olympic distance, except for that darned swim. The longer bike leg really lets you have fun, and the 10k, well, it's long, but I used to run, so it's fun.

On the bike, I say yes, because that's a lot less than it's worth, more than you have in it, and the happy medium. If you would sell it to a complete stranger for $300, then $150-200 to a friend is fair.

sipitts, your freind blew off a really good deal. I think Robbie is right. That bike is easily worth more than $100. Nice, higher end Nishikis are becoming harder to find. In addition, if that's his frame size, its not easy to find a high quality steel frame in that size. I know, I have a freind and fellow BF member who I have sold several large framed bikes to when I find them. Large frames are out there, but not that many of them are higher end frames. Sell it to someone who can't wait to get there hands on a good quality, large frame and has been looking for several months.

+1 Your friend blew it. $200 for this bike would be cheap.

I have exactly the bicycle in pictured in the catalogue!!

Soon after getting it, I changed from red tape and cables to black--so the picture brought back memories of the first weeks.

It got heavy use for several years, original parts were replaced correctly with Campy Record, when needed.

It is ready for a tune up (needs new tires, etc.). Seeing the picture, I am tempted to return to red tape and cables--but I still don't like that look.

So I will need to think on that issue. With the catalogue photo, value would likely be higher with original colors.

Anyone have a guess as to value--it is about 52cm size.

The model year in the catalogue (mine) had a Japanese frame, and Campy Nuvo Record components. I recall a later year (next?) had an Italian frame, and Shimano top line components (Dura Ace?).