Folding Bikes - Folder needed for a anal guy

I will be strait forward with this - I need a folder (travel bike), but I will not consider small wheel options. I am in Taiwan at the moment, the 7th time being overseas in a a year and I am going nuts, its been too long. Note I own 6 high end bikes - none I can travel with. Here is what I am considering at this point:
1) I have a steel road bike - 2004 specialized Allez steel - Columbus Foco - Thinking about SS couplings - the problem, I've got the bike at 17.5 lbs, may be a bit light for rougher roads and can't ride off road.
2) Dahon Flo - great reveiws, good spec, but not for on road - I can buy another set of tires.
3) Ritchey break away cross - covers everything, but starts getting a bit high on the price after a nice build.

Any other suggestions? More history: at one point in my life I raced MTB at a pro level, I have done a couple IM competitions, so I'm a bit anal about what I ride. So I need performance, and I don't want small wheels.
Thanks

If you want a folder that mimics everything your big bikes do order a custom Bike Friday. Mine was built to the same riding specifications as my 1974 Paramount. It does have small wheels (451s). Roger

I think you've done a fair job of listing the high end options for folding bikes with full-sized wheels. I understand that you're anal... but have you even test ridden a high end 20" wheel travel bike? Until you do give it a fair test tride... you shouldn't discount them out of hand.

--sam

Note I own 6 high end bikes - none I can travel with. Here is what I am considering at this point:
1) I have a steel road bike - 2004 specialized Allez steel - Columbus Foco - Thinking about SS couplings - the problem, I've got the bike at 17.5 lbs, may be a bit light for rougher roads and can't ride off road.
2) Dahon Flo - great reveiws, good spec, but not for on road - I can buy another set of tires.
3) Ritchey break away cross - covers everything, but starts getting a bit high on the price after a nice build.

Why not? Aren't all the airlines charging for regular luggage now? A folder with big wheels will surely also be oversized. What's the price difference going to be for flying with one of the breakaway options you mentioned as oversized luggage versus one of your regular bikes in a case/box? Can't be much compared to the overall cost of flying to the opposite side of the world.

Heck, if you're going 7 times per year your best option might be to simply leave a bike there (find a storage locker or something).

Check out AIRNIMAL (http://www.airnimal.com/Chameleon.php) bikes.. Here's my Chameleon .. the frame folds down to fit a carry-on bag .. the wheels (520's) can be packed with your other luggage.. Here's an ARTICLE (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/ives_to_take_on_all_three_grand_tours_article_196130.html) showing one use .. I also have a used Silver that is available if interested..


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/2449559634_c01f86caca.jpg

Nice bike, Bruce. I forgot about Airnimal.

--sam

True North and CoMotion both make bikes with couplers and regular sized wheels. True North were at the bike show in Toronto and I started yearning after them.

But I just bought a Friday, so I don't want to hurt her feelings.

Dahon Touronado is a cheaper Ritchey breakaway.

On many airlines, there's no difference in price between shipping a break-away or a regular bike. None of the full sized break-away bikes are small enough to escape oversize charges, and the fees are typically flat rate - once you're over ,you're over. And NONE of the 26" / 700c break-away bikes will be under.

Thus, there's often really no advantage to the break-away cost wise! Size wise, somewhat, yes. But normal bikes don't go over max size limits either, so unless you really need your bike in a suitcase, there's just not a lot of advantage between a break-away and a regular bike in a hard case. I'd check with the airlines you typically choose to fly on to work out what their size breakpoints and fees are, but its likely that your gains by going for a break-away will be minimal, or inexistent.

I mimic some of the notions of the other suggestions here. You're dismissing some of the high performance small wheel options like Bike Friday and Airnimal too easily. My BF Pocket Llama rides exactly like my Rocky Mountain Hammer, it's also lighter.

I am in Taiwan at the moment, the 7th time being overseas in a a year and I am going nuts, its been too long...

I sympathize, I know the feeling. Longest I've been away was 6 weeks straight alone which should've been a 2 week stay. On the 4th week, I was climbing the walls of my hotel room (just an expression) with cabin fever.

7th time in one year?!?? you poor bugga... must be a big R&D project you're working on...


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I sympathize, I know the feeling. Longest I've been away was 6 weeks straight alone which should've been a 2 week stay. On the 4th week, I was climbing the walls of my hotel room (just an expression) with cabin fever.

7th time in one year?!?? you poor bugga... must be a big R&D project you're working on...


.

I'm a commissioning guy - 7th time since last April to 7 different places. China (4 times), Greece, Egypt, and now Taiwan. Most trips are 3 weeks or under.

Check out AIRNIMAL (http://www.airnimal.com/Chameleon.php) bikes.. Here's my Chameleon .. the frame folds down to fit a carry-on bag .. the wheels (520's) can be packed with your other luggage.. Here's an ARTICLE (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/ives_to_take_on_all_three_grand_tours_article_196130.html) showing one use .. I also have a used Silver that is available if interested..


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3070/2449559634_c01f86caca.jpg

Where did you purchase you airnimal - I don't see any dealers in the states.

There are two American dealers... Calhoun Cycle in Minnesota and Mt. Airy Cycle in Maryland.

Every once in a while a few appear on eBay. One thing to note... I believe Airnimal bikes have 24" wheels. Don't know if that makes any difference to you.

--sam

There's the Airnimal Rhino - wait till you see the pics...
You could consider a Moulton TSR30 with break-apart frame - now there's a bike for an anal guy (I have an APB, early version of TSR). This bike is simply brilliant, and with a double set of wheels you'll be able to either race on-road or cyclocross or off-road.

My apoligies for suggesting small wheels but there are small-wheelers out there that really are brilliant.

Also check out some of the MTB-ing threads by member foldsinhalf.

I'm starting to re-think my original post. Traveling with a full size folder (even if I didn’t have to pay the oversize fare) would not be practical because of what I need to bring with me. I’m limited to 2 50# checked bags and one carry on. I typically travel with 3 bags. A backpack (as my carry on) and 2 checked bags.
1) In the small - about carry on size – bag - I'm an EE - so in this bag I carry the tools I need for the job - meters, a few hand tools, com cables for different devices, steel toe boots (most sites I go to are industrial), and drawings for the job. About 38 pounds
2) In a large bag - Clothes, running shoes, workout gear, protein powder (it's notable, because it's heavy), books, toiletries etc. about 45 pounds.
I figure, if I get past the ego issue of riding a small wheel bike, I can fit it in with what I carry now (but having 2 large bags), with a bit of redistribution, and stream lining what I carry on a trip.
Realistically, a full size bike would not work – I would be pushing size limits from the start – plus the hotels I stay in may not appreciate me wheeling a full size bike to and from my room – so I will need it to fold quickly.
The bike I will need would have to be similar to my Specialized Tri-cross. I use this as my commuter when I’m in town. I have done a century on it, ridden single track, mount studs on it in the winter – is a do all bike that performs well.
I have looked at the Dahon and Friday sites a bit – any specific suggestions?

I wouldn't consider a Dahon. They are very good bikes indeed for the money, but I don't think they would be good enough for the sort of punishment a strong rider would mete out to them. Possible exception may be the Jetstream. Foldsinhalf has a modded one with disc brakes.

I wouldn't consider a Dahon. They are very good bikes indeed for the money, but I don't think they would be good enough for the sort of punishment a strong rider would mete out to them. Possible exception may be the Jetstream. Foldsinhalf has a modded one with disc brakes.

After I looked at Foldsinhalf profile, that is the model I was considering - I sure would like to ride one before I buy.

Moulton? swift? alternatives ,20" wheels are fine on the right bike IMO.Downtubes NS frames are strong enough, fast and reasonable weight also if you go for a road setup. Never weighed mine ,but felt around 10-11 kgs,maybe less. Add some carbon forks and crank set maybe if you need even more weight savings.
Judging from other forum responses I would opt for the purpose built offering from bike friday,airnimal,or even an 18" birdie as main options.

The future solution? a folding carbon frame set ? http://www.carbonfibergear.com/cubes-carbon-fiber-collapsible-bicycle-concept/

I wouldn't consider a Dahon. They are very good bikes indeed for the money, but I don't think they would be good enough for the sort of punishment a strong rider would mete out to them. Possible exception may be the Jetstream. Foldsinhalf has a modded one with disc brakes.

I think the Dahon SpeedPro TT might also work for this case. I had an older model, and they're built solid, fast, with great gearing. Not for off road use, though. I can't tell if that's an important criteria for this case.

http://www.dahon.com/us/speedprott.htm

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/speedprott1.jpg

To the OP: I think you need to take a long, aggressive ride on a good small wheeled bike to eliminate your reluctance with them. I routinely ride my 20" wheeled bikes on my training rides (56% of my 986 miles so far this year). My rides are 30-70 miles usually, with a minimum of 2500 ft climbing (68,500 ft climbed so far this year).. I do centuries on them - going on one today on the Moulton TSR30. I'm not arguing that they're faster than my 17lb carbon roadie, but for training, you should have no reluctance to use them, especially in a travel situation.

Gratuitous photo of my TSR30 on the way up to Mt. Hamilton in San Jose (4,300 ft +):
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/sesamecrunch/IMG_3441.jpg

Moulton is a very high performance breakdown bike. They have been used for world speed records, time-trials, world tours and everyday commuting. The small wheels combined with proper full suspension make for a very comfortable ride in a lightweight package that can cope with any road conditions.

Moulton is a very high performance breakdown bike. They have been used for world speed records, time-trials, world tours and everyday commuting. The small wheels combined with proper full suspension make for a very comfortable ride in a lightweight package that can cope with any road conditions.

I agree with your assessment of the Moulton (as I have two of them) except to clarify that the lightweight reference is in regards to one's wallet after buying one..:D

I can't give any advice on high performance folders, as I ride a Dahon Curve (with a million upgrades), so I defer to my friends here on the forum, but I'm glad you are reconsidering small wheels. Once you get over the idea that these bikes are "weird," you can really enjoy what they bring to your riding experience.

Someone referred to me as capricious when I was questioning how they handle the strange looks and the attitude towards my clown bike. I wish I remembered who, because I'd thank them for setting me straight. I ride small wheel because I love it.

Think of it as adding to your resume of bike riding and owning experiences!

OP SScyco (like the avatar btw) I can relate. i've been annoying bike shops and trying loads of folding bikes, but in spite of what people on this sub forum say (they would wouldn't they) - nothing beats the gliding, in the zone, effortless feeling you get on a half decent 700c road bike. Here are some comments.

The Zootr Swift IMHO, rides better than other 20" wheeled bikes (including the rather porky TSR, and the expensive Airnimal), but still do not feel as fast as a 700c bike, even with decent high pressure rubber. Dahon make some full sized wheeled bikes but they either need to be dismantled, or are massive when folded. I was disappointed when I tried the Cadenza, when folded it is still massive with the bars sticking up and out. You have to get the tools out and remove the whole stem and bars, which then 'dangle' against the frame to get the same folded form as they show in the pictures.

I quite like the look of Pacific If bikes, the IF Cross (or IF Urban as they have re-named it, again) would seem to be the best bet for faster rides as well as fast folding - they are all 'roll when folded' bikes which is a plus. But they are still new and outside Taiwan few seem to stock them yet.

I've rejected the other 700c and 26" bikes from Ritchey and Dahon, as well as Airmimal and Swiss bike as they all need to be dismantled in some form to 'fold' them up, this would annoy me if I needed to say take a commuter train in bad weather, but this may be ok for the OP for travelling.

Where did you purchase you airnimal - I don't see any dealers in the states.

I got my Airnimal from the US distributor .. but, now that I've read that you're downsizing your wheel size needs, here's another bike to look at .. it is currently for sale and I will give a 10% discount to any B/F member who mentions that they saw the offer here.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/1099772913.html

When you mention your cross and mountain bike, and describe that you would like to ride off road,

The Airnimal Rhino and Bike Friday Pocket Llama are what come to mind for me. The Rhino is outfitted like a full sized + full suspension XC bike, while the Pocket Llama is a rigid but extremely durable bike like a good cross or MTB trekking bike.

Of the two, the Pocket Llama comes closest to the Ritchey break away cross - covers everything.

I would avoid the Dahons for high performance needs if you are going off road. They have a folding stem which makes them very convenient for quick and convenient folding, but it also means you'll risk damaging the hinge on the stem if you stand and hammer / stand while doing technical maneouvers.

Jim Langley gave the Airnimal an excellent review. I think his personal travel bike is a Pocket Rocket Pro--steel framed. The steel vs aluminum thing could be a factor-- I never know--as design totality seems more of a factor. He also has a good review on the web from 2006 on the Rocket Pro. You might email or call and ask his opinion.

My brother and his wife are serious cyclists--- they can keep up with the best--- they swear by their Pocket Rocket Pro for travel--- they've gone all over the world with the Rockets on grueling tours.
They are not inexpensive, though.

[QUOTE=SesameCrunch;8668649]I think the Dahon SpeedPro TT might also work for this case.
QUOTE]

Sorry, I forgotten the Dahon speed TT that inspired my Downtube mods!

I've only had my Bike Friday Pocket Sport out twice now, both 30 mile trips, but I'm convinced that it rides as well as any of my "full size" carbon bikes. I race so I understand the ego issue, but trust me, riding in a fast paceline on a properly geared folder is the quickest way to destroy the other riders ego.

Clearly the OP should give Bike Friday a call. Their entire business is centered on catering to people like him.

Why do we even accept queries on full sized wheeled bikes around here when everyone inevitably chooses the small wheels? :p

Clearly the OP should give Bike Friday a call. Their entire business is centered on catering to people like him.

Why do we even accept queries on full sized wheeled bikes around here when everyone inevitably chooses the small wheels? :p

yes some forum readers don't realise that "anything above a 20" wheel is unnessary","bike wheels are not round", and that "higher dimensions are filled with choppers and penny farthings!"

Seriously, are their not even more options in the preformance "packagable" bike market ?

I have had a look on the web, but could not find them again. But I have seen other expensive (£2000 or more) folders with dropped bars other than Bike Friday,moulton and Airnimal. I am not talking about prototypes.

I'm starting to re-think my original post. Traveling with a full size folder (even if I didn’t have to pay the oversize fare) would not be practical because of what I need to bring with me. I’m limited to 2 50# checked bags and one carry on. I typically travel with 3 bags. A backpack (as my carry on) and 2 checked bags.
1) In the small - about carry on size – bag - I'm an EE - so in this bag I carry the tools I need for the job - meters, a few hand tools, com cables for different devices, steel toe boots (most sites I go to are industrial), and drawings for the job. About 38 pounds
2) In a large bag - Clothes, running shoes, workout gear, protein powder (it's notable, because it's heavy), books, toiletries etc. about 45 pounds.
I figure, if I get past the ego issue of riding a small wheel bike, I can fit it in with what I carry now (but having 2 large bags), with a bit of redistribution, and stream lining what I carry on a trip.
Realistically, a full size bike would not work – I would be pushing size limits from the start – plus the hotels I stay in may not appreciate me wheeling a full size bike to and from my room – so I will need it to fold quickly.
The bike I will need would have to be similar to my Specialized Tri-cross. I use this as my commuter when I’m in town. I have done a century on it, ridden single track, mount studs on it in the winter – is a do all bike that performs well.
I have looked at the Dahon and Friday sites a bit – any specific suggestions?

I just received my Bike Friday Pocket Expedition. It is an off the shelf version of the Pocket Llama. Basically a rigid mountain bike with 20" inch wheels. I set it up aggressively with the handle bars about 4.25" below the saddle. I rode it for the 1st time on Saturday with a fast road group. It's an amazing ride. I doubt that I will be buying anything but 20" wheeled bikes again. Now I want a Pocket Rocket (road version with drop bars) with skinny tires.

A Rocket Llama (Pocket Llama with drop bars) or a Pocket Rocket would be equivalent to the Tri-cross depending upon how wide of tires you want to be able to use. The Pocket Rocket will take up to 1 3/8" or 35mm tires.

I really appritiate all the reponses. usualy the back end of my jobs get a little hectic, so I did not have much time to post. But I'm back at home now. I am thinking about a Friday, on their website they had a used fixed pocket rocket - minimal and small. I rode fixed many years ago - I figure that with a fatter punture resitant tire (armadillo type - in a 20) - front brake with a couple of free wheels (and a rear brake) and tire options. Are the bikes tough enough to hope curbs at speed, take small drops?

http://www.birdybike.com/

ever considered a Tikit?

So far many of you have suggested foldables with suspension. I have done research - I am willing to, possibly, take the leap into 20" bikes. However - suspension is probably out of the question. I have raced mtnbikes for years - Last year at the CCP 100, I was challenged to race a 6 and 6 bike, previously - many years ago I did it on a hard tail. I was told and sold on all the new technology that I would be faster on the new steed. This was a bit of a promotional deal, so I did not pay near retail for the bike (specialzed enduro pro carbon) - I have to say I am back to hard tail with a 4 to 5 inch fork for aggressive off-road. For full on downhill I will own and ride a FS bike, but probably not an option for a folder or anything else.

I really appritiate all the reponses. usualy the back end of my jobs get a little hectic, so I did not have much time to post. But I'm back at home now. I am thinking about a Friday, on their website they had a used fixed pocket rocket - minimal and small. I rode fixed many years ago - I figure that with a fatter punture resitant tire (armadillo type - in a 20) - front brake with a couple of free wheels (and a rear brake) and tire options. Are the bikes tough enough to hope curbs at speed, take small drops?

The Llama / Expedition, yes! I do bunny hopping and small drops on mine without issue. I'm currently jumping over all of the small streams that have sprung up around the area rather than riding through them, as i've not got fenders yet.

The lighter use bikes like the NWT and Rocket, I don't know. I would be skeptical of using the rocket in a rough manner for sure, its designed as a road bike. Won't be able to take real fat tires either.

I know you don't want suspension, but you should search for forum member FoldsinHalf. He's posted some great pics of his Dahon Jetstream during some great trail rides.

Are the bikes tough enough to hope curbs at speed, take small drops?

Yes. Not the Tikit so much: when I hop curbs on it, the latch disengages a little bit and then pops back into place. Not a big deal but it'll weird you out. But the bigger BF bikes can take a lot.

OK - I've narrowed it down. I rode a Tikit (finally) and was way impressed with the ride. Did some wheelies, stoppies and hopped a couple of curbs. Very nice ride.
The other bike bike I have been eyeing is the Xootr Swift. Unfortinatly I will not be able to ride one berfore the purchase. I hear many good things about the ride. Either bike I get will be heavily modified after the purchase. I am leaning towards the Swift at this point because of cost, rave reviews from people that seem like they ride a bunch, work with standard parts and the no questions asked return policy (for 30 days). I will be heading to Portland OR for a week - figured a good place to run it through its paces. Any thoughts.

Good luck, hope it works out. My folder has helped me keep my sanity on all my business trips. :thumb:

I am leaning towards the Swift at this point because of cost, rave reviews from people that seem like they ride a bunch, work with standard parts and the no questions asked return policy (for 30 days). I will be heading to Portland OR for a week - figured a good place to run it through its paces. Any thoughts.

Having never seen a Swift in my life, I have read that the Swift is efficient but a somewhat harsh ride which you may love or hate. The Swift also folds into a ... less than compact package (even by Tikit standards). Make certain that it will fit where you need it to. Otherwise I've heard plenty of good stuff about the bike.

I would not buy a bike without trying it first. My suggestion is that you purchase the Swift and compare directly against the Tikit you've been trying. If you like the Swift better (and/or can't afford the Tikit), keep it. Otherwise return it and get the Tikit. Either way I think you'll like your bike.

IMHO, the Swift really comes into it's own after modding it a bit.

I don't have a ton of experience with other folders, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But, once I swapped the tyres out for something a bit lighter (schwalbe kojaks), got rid of the horrible stock saddle, and swapped the bars out for bullhorns, the bike really came into it's own for me. The first couple of rides with it stock, I wasn't super impressed with it's performance. I could instantly tell it had "good bones" though. I'm not mentioning this to put you off the Swift. Far from it. I think it has the potential of being a good roadie machine. Just not out of the box.

The ride is a bit on the harsh side, but I don't find it unbearable by a long shot.

The forums are full of examples of people who have modded Swifts to do pretty much what you looking for.

sscyco (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=3152), you can use a regular full suspension bike 4 linkage and mount a quick release to the rear suspension. Take out the wheels and swing the rear in. See Nikolai Helios CC Travel (http://www.nicolai.net/products_de/e-frames/e-helius-cc-trv.html), but this works with many other frames too. To reduce folded packet size you can switch to 24" wheels.

Another option: Supercross Envy lightweight BMX frame (http://www.supercrossbmx.com/envydetail.html) plus Trigon 20" carbon fork. This does not fold but the disassembled package is quite long and thin so it has much better dimensions. Also this is the strongest and lightest option available, you can get this below 7kg as a singlespeed/fixie.

Another very good travel companion would be a Dahon Mu fixed gear, such as this mod (http://www.loro.co.jp/custom/2009/04/dahon-mu-uno-451custom.html).

See Nikolai Helios CC Travel
That is cool - However it would still be too big for me. Plus I figure the majority of the riding I will be doing will be point a to point b, road stuff. I am thinking about just ordering the swift frame and building it up as a SS/fixey, double brakes - possibly disk. Are there any thoughts on buying a good light aftermarket wheelset? I'm pretty sure I have the rest of the parts just lying around (less tires).

You should try and test ride a Moulton (http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/index.html) space frame to see how the suspension compares to your MTB experience. It is a totally different setup designed to get the best from small wheels.
Moultons are not high performance "for a small wheeled bike", they are just plain high performance holding several speed records. They have also built a reputation as capable global touring bikes.

That is cool - However it would still be too big for me. Plus I figure the majority of the riding I will be doing will be point a to point b, road stuff
It is the same dimension as the Airnimal Chameleon. MTB or road - only depends on your choice of components. You can outfit it with 24" wheels with Durano tires, drop bars and carbon fork, Dura Ace, etc. It'll fit in a suitcase.
Regarding Swift: bear in mind that you need to disassemble the frame to make the fold suitcase sized. Also it is relatively heavy (I think due to the steel fork).

The Swift can quite easily be built into a light version - see my sig linky for mine. Currently it is around 8.6kg (pedals and saddle included, but all else off). You can see from the parts I have on it that they aren't special in any way, except the seatpost which is a special carbon fibre 34mm one from PZ Racing bought from Speedmatrixdepot in Singapore.

The Swift can quite easily be built into a light version - see my sig linky for mine. Currently it is around 8.6kg (pedals and saddle included, but all else off). You can see from the parts I have on it that they aren't special in any way, except the seatpost which is a special carbon fibre 34mm one from PZ Racing bought from Speedmatrixdepot in Singapore.
Yes, but I guess the frame is >2kg, plus ~800g fork, plus stem riser this is >3kg.
Compared to a Supercross frame + Trigon fork this is approx twice as much weight.

Yes, but I guess the frame is >2kg, plus ~800g fork, plus stem riser this is >3kg.
Compared to a Supercross frame + Trigon fork this is approx twice as much weight.You drop much of that weight in the wheels.

... I will not consider small wheel options....

Any reason in particular? To my mind, the idea of "not considering" something is a little silly in any context, but in this context it makes no sense whatsoever. It's kinda like saying "I want a super light bike but will not consider aluminum, titanium, or carbon." Is your phobia informed by some experience with small wheels, or is it just a plain old prejudice?


...To the OP:... I think you need to take a long, aggressive ride on a good small wheeled bike to eliminate your reluctance with them. ...