Mountain Biking - Just can't decide - clipless or not

I have spent hours (days) reading and researching pedals, both clipless and platform, but I simply can not decide which way to go. I am new to "real" MTB riding but like most people I have been riding bikes on and off since before I can remember.

I ride XC and singletracks and I am not sure if clipless pedals will help me or make me more dangerous out there (to myself that is). I have trouble keeping my feet in a good riding position because I have crap platforms pedals at the moment, and I am happy to buy either clipless or better platform pedals (downhill style) with better traction.

I wonder if at present I am riding knowing that I can put a foot down if I need to, meaning maybe I am preparing for this rather than concentrating on keeping both feet on the bike at all times? However, I like to get a little air off anything on a track that looks like fun, so having my feet clipped in might not be such a hot idea (my aerial skills need a little work).

I'm interested in everyone's opinion and hopefully they will help me make my final decision, because I really am sick of thinking about it :mad: (I'd much rather be riding :D or dreaming about riding at least :p ).

Cheers,
Cadnams

I'd wait. You should really get so comfortable on your bike and with your ability that your feet coming off the pedals shouldn't happen.

O.k., unless your pedal hits a root and the pedal stops, your foot keeps going and then the pedal gashes the back of your leg. (happened last weekend)

Really though, you should master a bunny-hop and jumping with platforms before you switch to clipless. It'll make you a better rider.

There are things that I can do on my bike that I learned from my BMX days. I take friends riding and their bike handling skills are horrible. I attribute it to knowing how to shift my weight around and use a lot of body english. Switching to clipless too soon could inhibit this technique.

L8R

I would get them they were the best thing I ever bought for my bike. I would practice trackstands that way you get used to unclipping at slow speeds. Most of my crashes have been form trying to unclip at a standstill. Now that I've mastered the trackstand that doesn't happen any more.

Clipless is way more scary when you're sitting behind the computer THINKING about how you might possibly crash. The worst crashes I had when I was new to clipless involved trackstands and flopping over on my side in my driveway.

:roflmao:

I agree with the importance of balance and the problem of falling when at a standstill.
I started using clipless in January, and it's been a love-hate thing.

The biggest advantages for me have been improved power and speed (because you aren't just mashing, you can use your legs on the up and down stroke) and better hopping. The disadvantages are there as well- I can't take tight corners as well now because I can't shift my weight by rotating my feet on the platform. More importantly, my crashes have become much more frequent and severe. The best riders rarely fall, so it's a non-issue for them. But for me, it's been a painful challenge.

Compared to cages, you cannot get out of clips as quickly if falling sideways, which makes going through rough areas a bit scary, true (btw- I don't feel that I accidentally slipped out of my cages, when pedals were properly sharp and cages set right, more than I do with clipless). The flipside is that you'll have a tendency to take a "do or die" attitude, and therefore you are forced to improve faster.

In a nutshell, I don't feel that clipless (v. cages) has improved my technical ability that much, but has allowed me to produce more speed and power, resulting in becoming an overall better rider. But my body is suffering from the falls...

I say go flats. For me mtb is about the skill and speed not just speed. I find clipless riders, while they may look impressive, can't actually do much on their bikes a lot of the time. (unless they come from a flat pedal background). The only technique they have perfected is perfect spinning (which as hans mentioned is impossible on flats)...

I say ride flats, learn to hop properly and learn proper balance then move to clipless.

NOTE: so I don't get flamed. I don't consider riders with clipless without talent. Some of the best would still be the best with or without. I just think beginners should learn on flats.

I wonder if at present I am riding knowing that I can put a foot down if I need to...


Once you get used to clipless (ie, unclipping becomes intuitive), you can put your foot down any time you want just as quickly as you can with platforms. It just takes a little time to develop the muscle memory to twist your heel rather than lift your foot. The clipless learning curve _will_ involve a couple mishaps, but chances are they'll involve tipping over at 1 mph or less in front of your friends. :)

I agree with a2psyklnut that it is good to develop your skills before going clipless, but the increased efficiency of clipless (and perhaps more importantly the cycling shoes required for riding with them) will make your rides more enjoyable.

I say go for it. Happy riding.

I say go flat. I have clipless for my mtb and only use them for long distance XC. I ride tons of miles on a road bike that is obviously clipless, so learning to use clipless is not an issue. I find it much more fun to ride flat and there is no worries about falling off a skinny still clipped in. If you just want to go fast, clipless, if you want to have fun go flat.

Ya I went clipless with my new bike the other day (I already had the pedals) but first I used some platform pedals off my GT flatland bike to get used to riding it before I made the switch...

but in my opinion clipless is a huge advantage when alot of climbing is involved because you can use both you up and down "push and Pull" on the cranks...

Later
Jake

off topic but: wen doing a trackstand, how long should you be able to hold it for?
i can do like 3 seconds.

I can go for a couple of minutes...it varries. How long SHOULD you be able to go for...I don't know if there is a set time but I usually push for indefinate..

I prefer half-clips myself. They give you some of that "locked-in" feeling, but are far easier to get out of as well as allowing for regular shoes to be used, so no cleat/shoe compatibility issues here.

Only real downside to half-clips is how they are sometimes hard to get into, especially if your pedal has some serious grip on it before addng the half-clips.

Aren't they just called clips ;)

Aren't they just called clips ;)

They've got those weird little clips that aren't designed for straps. That's what I envision when he says "half-clips".

Me, I use clips and straps, but I'm not a very technical rider.

yeah platform would be best as a beginner you wouldn't want really embrassing crashes

5 bikes, all have clipless pedals. Need I say more?

Also, they won't chew-up your shins like flats will. If you get in a hairy situation, simply "un-clip", you still have a platform to put your shoe on....

5 bikes, all have clipless pedals. Need I say more?

Also, they won't chew-up your shins like flats will. If you get in a hairy situation, simply "un-clip", you still have a platform to put your shoe on....

4 bikes and a bmx and not a clipless to be found...need I say more... ;)

I run both depending on the bike and the type of riding I'm planning. On my FR oriented bike, and my DJ bike, I run platforms. On my SS, I run SPD's. On my road bike I run Speedplay's. On my BMX cruiser, platforms. I have a pair of Time A.T.A.C's that I use when I hit some mostly XC type trails.

I was riding some elevated trails with my plats and had no problems. Same bike about 2 weeks later, I was running SPD's. I busted my butt riding SPD's because I couldn't unclip in time, and was too "locked in" to get proper balance.

However, if your riding is mostly XC singletrack or doubletrack with a lot of climbs, Clipless is the way to go. My favorite pedal bar none are the TIME's.

L8R

I run Time ATACs as well... great for sticky Florida mud which jams SPD pedals with a quickness.

Aren't they just called clips ;)

nah, clips have the strap and are designed to lock you in.

These don't actually lock you in, they are just a very rigid open sided cup for your toes to sit in, allowing for a partial gain when compared to full-clips. It's just far easier to use, and possibly cheaper too.


EDIT: linkage, this set is very similar to mine, except mine has massive bracing ridges on the front and top, and has no tread on the inside. http://www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk/public/index.php/product/toeclips//TC1284.html



EDIT AGAIN: Here is the exact set I own. http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?productId=573176&storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1

I didn't realize there was so many options. Thank god I prefer flats.

Thanks everyone. Some great points made and you have helped me make up my mind. I am going to go with some good flats until I perfect some of my skills, then I will make the switch. I ride purely to have some aggressive fun and the extra speed/power on climbs is not a big enough carrot for me just yet.

Wohoo....finally another flat rider. :D ;)

Thanks everyone. Some great points made and you have helped me make up my mind. I am going to go with some good flats until I perfect some of my skills, then I will make the switch. I ride purely to have some aggressive fun and the extra speed/power on climbs is not a big enough carrot for me just yet.

Good choice. Then after you convert to clipless for the trail, you'll still have a good set of plats for DJ/Street. :)

Check out Power Grips. http://www.nashbar.com/index.cfm
I recently switched to Power Grips when single-speed commuting. I can now spin and crank and shift my weight around a lot more efficiently than when riding clipless or with clips. So I plan to add Power Grips to the Big Masher pedals on my Marin Eldridge Grade and Jamis Exile.

:roflmao: :roflmao:

I just bought the Crank Brothers Mallet C's so I can do both. I hope it works out...

Can you remove the cage from Mallet C pedals? If so, does it leave you with a standard Eggbeater C pedal?

Can you remove the cage from Mallet C pedals? If so, does it leave you with a standard Eggbeater C pedal?


no you can't. so they arent for the weight concious.

Wohoo....finally another flat rider.
No wories malestrom i' a flat rider as well!

Check out Power Grips. http://www.nashbar.com/index.cfm
I recently switched to Power Grips when single-speed commuting. I can now spin and crank and shift my weight around a lot more efficiently than when riding clipless or with clips. So I plan to add Power Grips to the Big Masher pedals on my Marin Eldridge Grade and Jamis Exile.



Hey Leo and Catatonic,

I'm curious how your clips and Power Grips work on fast, bumpy downhills? For my riding, I'd think that my feet would bounce out a lot. I also am curious whether you can get your feet out of the PG fast. Also, how much power do you lose from not having full use of spin (as you do with clipless)?

Always looking for an alternative to clipless,
Scott

I havent done anyhting too rough yet (all my trail riding was rather log and large rock free), but i found out when i got my front tire stuck in one of the light rail tracks in town (downtown SJ I often ride on the light rail track since it's smooth pavement in the middle and the traffic lane is only 1 wide...it's a mix of not being on the sidewalk yet not on the road...but I digress). What happened was i was crossing over to turn down a sidepath i often stop at to get a morning bagel...well I cut across the track at too shallow an angle, and my fornt tire just sunk right into the track.

What happened when i got stuck was suddenly I found my feet out of the pedals...this was what I wanted from these....to have the ability to have a closer to 360degree power stroke than i can get fomr using platform pedals, but not be locked in inevent of something stupid happening like what happened this morning. Basically if I was locked in I'm sure I would have endoed right there...and yes...it was around a bunch of rather good looking girls too....fortunately it was jsut a loud tire squeal and me looking like some sort of village idiot....which I don't mind near as much as looking like a total klutz. :p

As far as fast downhills, they work great, and for bumpy riding they work great...but are rather unforgiving on my hardtail bike...those things do hold you rather vigorously. On the other hand, I can get out of them with incredible ease.

I haven't used clipless yet, so i can't fully compare to them. I just didn't like having to twist my foot out of them (actually being "locked-in"), and didn't like having to wear special (and often expensive) footwear with the (again often expensive) pedals. As far as my own guesstimate, I would say they are probably about 50-60pct of the clipless system's efficiency...considering platform pedals are what 30-40pct of the efficiency of clipless? I have however managed to obtain a perfect spin with these a few times...but it often involved somewhat high cadences as well.

I say just give the half-clips a try. At about $6 a set, just use an old set of platforms you have laying around and give it a go...worst thing is you might be out of $6 if you don't like em...no biggie. I recently swapped out my old crappy pyramid pedals for a set of lightweight wellgo pedals...so far I like the wellgo pedals more, and those were only $25/set a my lbs.

For a rank beginner, what kind of flats are recommended to maintain good traction?

Go to your LBS and ask for a BMX type platform pedal. Go to www.danscomp.com and click to "bike parts" then "pedals" and you'll see a bunch! The Poverty Hustler's are a decent pedal for not a lot of money!

L8R

someone else might have already said this(too lazy to read this entire thread) but just get some clipless pedals with the platforms around the outside if you cant decide.

I had a set of Look SR-2's that I used when I 1st started out riding. They were DH pedals & allowed you to "un-clip" if desired, and still keep your foot on the big pedal platform.

I have power grips. But I got an issue with them The are so hard to get in, its like they are too small to fit my sneakers in. Its at the very end of the strap length.. and I have very average sized feet, 10.5 US is all, who are powergrips made for anyway, little kids???

I have to wrestle them on, but when I DO get them on, theyre awesome and easy to get OUT of. I just wish they made the straps longer and let us cut off what we dont need. seems too logic, no?

In your situation i can agree with your decision to run flats. There were valid points brought up, of using body english in technical skills you get with time and varied effort. But just to play devils advocate here, i ride with people who blow me away as far as having professional to expert skills and most all of em run clipless pedals. i'm running flats right now because i broke my leg, but once i get 100% i'll be back on clipless myself. Fundamentals are fine and dandy but chunking down a gnarl chute with roots/rocks and having your feet stay put is a great feeling. Pedal efficiency is increased as well and going uphill or on flat doesn't have a total monopoly on needing to pedal to increase your speed. :)
Just remember that if and when you decide to try clipless, take some time to learn and be prepared to fall a bunch. Go ride somewhere where the dirt is soft.

Anybody tried the Time 'Z' or 'Z Control' (basically an ATAC with an integrated platform)? How do they compare to ATAC's?

check out the crank bros. mallet c's too. thats what im running and i think theyre great. veryyyyyyyy sturdy pedal. and theyre rebuildable for those muddy days. :)

The Control's have the same engagement mechanism. The difference is the pedal body!

The Control's have the same engagement mechanism. The difference is the pedal body!

Thanks! Exactly what is different about the body besides the color between the Time Z (black) and Time Z Control (silver)? The spec's show the same weight and materials.

When trying clipless pedals for the first time I would reccomend using an spd compatible pedal and use the shimano multi-release cleat. This gives you the benefit of clipless pedals but allows a very easy exit from the pedal. With the multi release cleat you don't have to twist your foot to release from the pedal. You might occasionally come unclipped when you don't want to, but I would prefer that as opposed to not unclipping when you want.

while I love my ATACS I agree flats are the way to go. with flats you buy pedals. with clipless you have pedals and shoes to deal with. Primo Tenderizer(or supertenderizer) is an excellent choice but they tend to get covered with muck in bad conditions which may give less traction. its not a biggie for the most part other than a distraction trying to get grip.a minimalist platform may be better for muddy riding.my confidence has risen greatly since switching (whatever dont kill ya makes ya stronger is a good analogy for switching) even though my strawberry count has increased also. A2 Im surprised to hear about the lack of foot movement. I have not had that problem yet.(probably change tomorrowLOL)

Okay, what is a trackstand? I am assuming it is balancing on your pedals in a stationary postion, like at a stoplight? Is this correct?

Okay, what is a trackstand? I am assuming it is balancing on your pedals in a stationary postion, like at a stoplight? Is this correct?

Correct.

Okay, what is a trackstand? I am assuming it is balancing on your pedals in a stationary postion, like at a stoplight? Is this correct?

Well, technically you should be balancing on your wheels, but I would never split hairs like that. ;)

Well, technically you should be balancing on your wheels, but I would never split hairs like that. ;)

EXCELLENT!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: