Electric Bikes - Schwinn Continental (changes) and also Rayos

1) Continental Changes Am I seeing things, it would seem that the Schwinn Continental website has been downgraded from 60 miles range to 20-25 miles range. Look here:

http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Bikes/Continental.aspx

2) Help picking a bike: In any case, what are your thoughts on these 2 bikes (the Schwinn Continental and the Rayos). I'm on the market for an ebike what with my tax refund coming in shortly. This is my situation:

My situation
-15 mile commute each way to work through northern virginia (mostly on paths)
-250lbs (though aiming to get back down to my idea weight of 200-210lbs through the help of biking)
-6'2"
-38 years old
-free use of bike rack in the garage of the building I work in, able to plug in at my office.
-bottom line is I want something reliable that gets me to/from work with 50% assistance from me
-Can afford about $1k or so for a bike, and am willing to spend more if it's TRULY worth it
-Don't want to deal with building a bike. Perhaps my next bike will be a kit-based e-bike. Not this time though.

Looking at following bikes:
Schwinn Electric Bikes (Continental preferred)
250 watt motor
Lithium based battery (I like)
Claimed 60 mile range, BUT now the Schwinn web site says 25 miles?
No indication on the top speed
I like how stealthy it is (with cables and motor all hidden)
Have heard it may not be reliable, but I do like that it is backed by Schwinn.

Question: the 250watt Schwinn motor sounds anemic. Does anyone have any thoughts on this (especially for my size).

Rayos
600 watt motor
SLA battery
claimed 20 miles range
18 mph speed
I like that it has been chosen by some police departments as their bike of choice.

Question about Rayos: My main thought on Rayos is that I see few reviews about it compared to other e-bikes. Does anyone here have experience with it? I've seen a few reviews from bike stores owners saying it's the best bike for your money. However what are you thoughts? I realize with my current weight, the range and top speed will be compromised, but nonetheless what are people's thoughts on Rayos reliability and performance, and if possible, with the reliability and performance of the Continental (and other Schwinn bikes).

Thanks.

Hi Pavers,

Wanting an all-weather, low-maintenace ebike for commuting I went ahead and built something similar to the Schwinn Continental using a Dynamic Bikes Crossroad 8 ( http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/buy/Bikes.php?prodid=63 ) and an Ezee front hub set up from ebikes.ca ( http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_ezee.php ).
Clearly I was inspired by the Schwinn Continental. ;)
The 250 watt motor on the Schwinn does seem a little anemic to me. I'm 6'3" 210 lbs (down from 247!). I'm sure it'd be fine as long you're peddling. I'd like to know who manufactures Schwinn's hub motor as that could tell a lot about it's reliability. It is a fine clean looking bike though.

Don't know anything about the Rayos though SLA batteries are a deal breaker for me.

One thing about owning a shaft drive bike though: be sure to buy a grease gun and give the bottom bracket gears for the drive shaft (there's probably a zerk fitting) a couple squirts before your first ride and maybe a squirt a week as you break it in.
So far the combo has performed admirably well though I'm still working on a permanent placement for the battery pack.

I have the Rayos. You can figure a 15 mph and 11 mile range is more like it. If I had that money to spend over, I'd go with a Crystalyte or Bionx 350 kit and install it on a store bought bike.

Let's start out with the Schwinn:

This is definitely a nice bike. You can't argue with the quality or reputation of Schwinn. They've been building bikes for decades and you'll find all the same high quality parts and components on their standard bicycles - on their electric bike models. But in my opinion, these bikes are highly over-priced. Over $2000 for a 24V / 10AH battery? You can put together a powerful electric bike kit with top-of-the-line LiFePo4 batteries for half the cost. Plus, you can pick any bike you want (even a Schwinn).

Or, if electric bike kits aren't your thing, you choose from a wide variety of IZIP electric bike models (http://www.eco-wheelz.com/catalog/izip-electric-bikes-c-1_7.php) with many of the same features and high quality components as the Schwinn - but for hundreds of dollars less.

The old specs provided by Schwinn were highly over-stated. I'm sure that's why the website was recently changed. And I've also heard about random issues with their electric drive system. Although Schwinn has been doing standard bikes for years, e-bikes are still relatively new for them (in comparison to Currie / IZIP / EZIP - in business for 12 years).

Now for the Rayos:

I know looks aren't everything... but this is one scary looking bike! But let's put asthetics aside and consider that you're paying over $1000 for a bike with a low-quality lead acid (SLA) battery. You can buy an EZIP at Wal-Mart for $399 and get almost all the same features! Or, if you'd like something a little nicer (with a lighter-weight aluminum frame) you can choose an IZIP for $699. Plus, the EZIP / IZIP bikes will allow you to carry an extra battery and double your range.

To answer your other questions...

Almost any electric bike will handle 15 miles if you plan on pedalling. And if you can charge at work, almost any bike will get you back as well. Although 250lbs is well above the "average rider weight" used to calculate most e-bike ratings, pedalling will significantly increase your range and reduce stress on the motor. I would say any bike rated between 25-30 miles should get you 15 miles if the terrain is flat. And obviously... as your weight comes down... you can expect this number to increase...

Thanks El D. Your set-up sounds interesting. I guess part of not wanting a kit is not knowing if a particular bike and a particular kit go well together. It's nice to have an example to go by.

1) Can you add more batteries at a later date, if you were so inclined?
2) Also - what if, for 30 seconds, you want to *not* pedal at all. Is that okay? Will your set-up afford you that luxury? As I look at the Schwinn's I realize that it seems one literally has to pedal at all times. The nice thing about Rayos is that you have a choice (pedal, pedal+motor, motor only)

Thanks.

Hi EcoWheelz thanks. Do the izip bikes let you take the batteries out and charge them in your office if you want to? I was watching a video of the izip on youtube and noticed that you plug the electrical chord right into the bike. Is there an option to just pull the battery out yourself?

Thanks again.

Thanks for the advice blipo. It's good to know what the real world numbers are on the bike. Will take a look at the kit info. I saw another post in here from last October where a user was talking about Rayos coming out with a lithium battery sometime in 2009.

Hi EcoWheelz thanks. Do the izip bikes let you take the batteries out and charge them in your office if you want to? I was watching a video of the izip on youtube and noticed that you plug the electrical chord right into the bike. Is there an option to just pull the battery out yourself?


There are several different options with IZIP - and the battery type depends on the model. The IZIP "Enlightened" models have a built-in battery pack inside the frame. This is probably what you saw on Youtube since the charger port is built right into the bike. You can remove the battery on these models, but it can't be charged outside the bike (unless you make some alterations)...

Most of the other IZIP models have a removable battery pack mounted on the rear rack. It can be easily removed and charged in your home, at work, or anywhere you choose. There are several different "RMB" (rack mounted battery) models - and they also allow you to carry a 2nd battery pack to double your range. Although these models use lead acid (SLA) batteries, IZIP is offering a Li-Ion upgrade pack for these bikes later this month. This means you can upgrade one of these models later on without have to purchase a brand new bike. To see a list of the different IZIP models, visit:

http://www.eco-wheelz.com/catalog/izip-electric-bikes-c-1_7.php

Thanks El D. Your set-up sounds interesting. I guess part of not wanting a kit is not knowing if a particular bike and a particular kit go well together. It's nice to have an example to go by.

1) Can you add more batteries at a later date, if you were so inclined?
2) Also - what if, for 30 seconds, you want to *not* pedal at all. Is that okay? Will your set-up afford you that luxury? As I look at the Schwinn's I realize that it seems one literally has to pedal at all times. The nice thing about Rayos is that you have a choice (pedal, pedal+motor, motor only)

Thanks.

Hi Pavers,
In reply to your questions:
1) The eZee kit comes with 36v Lithium batteries. If I remember correctly the controller/motor will handle up to 48v.
2) The eZee kit also comes with a pedal sensor of sorts. Its nothing like the pedal assist setup that BionX has. As it has been explained to me (and my explanation will likely be an over simplification, but... ) it works somewhat like a throttle simply sensing rotation (via magnets) and applying power to the motor. I opted for a thumb throttle instead. If I don't want to pedal then I don't I just ride the throttle, as it were, and for as long as I want to. But that isn't often. Most of the time I find myself naturally using pedal/throttle combo as I need (or want) it or simply pedaling alone.

Any "kit" ebike, BionX, Crystalite, eZee, can be set up more or less to your own specs to do what you want how you want it. BionX is a closed system and the least customizable of the lot but it's still a great setup. Throw a PL350 on a your bike of choice (so long as its chain drive and externally geared) and it'll make you feel like a superhero.

Hi Pavers,

You have a high performance bike company in your back yard - E+ Bikes.

http://www.epluselectricbike.com/

Next to the Optibike, I think they are the best all around bike that you can buy, IMO.

http://www.optibike.com/altcat/altfrntpgvideo2.html

Dan

Next to the Optibike, I think they are the best all around bike that you can buy, IMO.

http://www.optibike.com/altcat/altfrntpgvideo2.html



Looked over the Optibike. I was floored that the extended warranty was $995!!!! You get 1 year on the bike and 3 years on the battery. The extended warranty adds 2 years to the bike, so that you then have 3 on both. Frankly that kind of price makes me very worried that the bike parts are not of very good quality. As why would one need to charge an extra thousand dollars to cover reliable parts?

Consider that even if the average repair is $1500, if only 10% of your customers needed a repair, that's an average cost per bike of just $150. Even if 25% had repairs, that's still just $375 per bike. And a 25% repair rate would be terrible reliability.

Bear in mind that we aren't even talking about battery failures in this rate, because those are already covered in the original price.

To get up to an average of $995 per bike, you're talking about a repair rate in the 70% to 80% range, with the average non-battery-related repair running at around $1200-$1400.