General Cycling Discussion - Some reason from London's mayor

Mayor Ken Slams 'Idiot' Parents

By Gavin Cordon, Whitehall Editor, PA News

Parents who use four-wheel drive vehicles to take their children to city schools were tonight branded “idiots” by London Mayor Ken Livingstone.

In an interview to be broadcast on GMTV’s Sunday programme, he said that such vehicles had no place in the capital.

“When I see a farmer, going over rugged terrain in their four-wheel drive, I think that’s a reasonable decision to have made,” he said.

“When you see someone trying to manoeuvre it round the school gates, you have to think ‘You are a complete idiot’.

“These are not cars which people should be using in London. They’re bad for London and they’re totally unnecessary. They’re largely a status symbol. If you’ve got that much money to spend, you could spend it on a better holiday. I would.”

Can't argue with that.

owch.. he'd hate america..

Maybe he'd put in the conjestion tax to travel in conjested areas just like in central London if he were in America.

I like this guy.

I like what they do in Singapore...You drive into the congested central business district..They meter the time you are there, and you pay for each minute in that given area..

I like what they do in Singapore...You drive into the congested central business district..They meter the time you are there, and you pay for each minute in that given area..

I think they do that in London, too. You know, I used to commute past a school, and occasionally I'd do it at the times people were picking up their children. All I can say is, forget the type of vehicle they drive, the biggest problem there is idiots generally!!! I lost count of the number of examples of driving that blatantly endangered the lives of children that I saw, and this driving came from parents! What I'd like to see done is for schools to be given the power to suspend (or even ban outright) certain people from parking within 200 metres of the school grounds on account of the fact that these people are just basic morons!

I like what he said he wouldn't last 2 seconds as a mayor in any American city and that is too bad.

I still disagree with your helmet position (not starting anything) I have to give you points on this one closet. FWIW You're off my ignore list.

I still disagree with your helmet position (not starting anything) I have to give you points on this one closet. FWIW You're off my ignore list.

If it's any consolation, even though our reasoning disagrees in an area of concern for both of us, I just got to say, I'm pleased Tampa's in the final.

IS it still the case..I read that the new mayor of Paris, France...He is green oriented.
He has actually taken some lanes away from the cities' expressways or major thorough fares and turned them into bike lanes..The guy is a fanatic cyclist.. He says cars from the suburbs is destroying his town and he will not tolerate it.
I like the sound of that guy.

I like what he said he wouldn't last 2 seconds as a mayor in any American city and that is too bad.

Seriously, for that politically incorrect statement, he would be impeached in the states. I mean, could you imagine the misplaced outrage that soccer moms would throw his way? Moreover, the oil, and auto industy would certainly pile on also.

he would be impeached in the states, the oil, and auto industy would certainly pile on also.

Goes to show who runs the show in the States. Oil, not people.

Goes to show who runs the show in the States. Oil, not people.
Don't forget the others of the ruling class...Wall Street financiers and Insurance/finance companies.

I think they do that in London, too. You know, I used to commute past a school, and occasionally I'd do it at the times people were picking up their children. All I can say is, forget the type of vehicle they drive, the biggest problem there is idiots generally!!! I lost count of the number of examples of driving that blatantly endangered the lives of children that I saw, and this driving came from parents! What I'd like to see done is for schools to be given the power to suspend (or even ban outright) certain people from parking within 200 metres of the school grounds on account of the fact that these people are just basic morons!

I've said many times that I'd rather ride past a bar at 2:05am than an elementary school at 7:45am.

I've said many times that I'd rather ride past a bar at 2:05am than an elementary school at 7:45am.

I'll second that sentiment.

I dislike the fact that most politicians here feels the need to tread lightly on anything oil-related. They can't speak out against oversized and unjustifiable SUVs for fear of offending the gas-guzzling electorate. The overriding sentiment of entitlement in the United States is sickening. The whole idea that we are the greatest nation in the world, are fundamentally superior, and are thus entitled to anything we damn well want, including consuming half the world's resources, producing 2/3 of its waste, and driving a Hummer H2 through Manhattan.

I'll second that sentiment.

I dislike the fact that most politicians here feels the need to tread lightly on anything oil-related. They can't speak out against oversized and unjustifiable SUVs for fear of offending the gas-guzzling electorate. The overriding sentiment of entitlement in the United States is sickening. The whole idea that we are the greatest nation in the world, are fundamentally superior, and are thus entitled to anything we damn well want, including consuming half the world's resources, producing 2/3 of its waste, and driving a Hummer H2 through Manhattan.


Don't forget, it's that garish sense of entitlement and superiority that motivate the great minds of the world. The people who design and create new gas-guzzling SUV's, appliances, methodologies ... bicycles :o do so because they know it will afford them any luxury they want, not because they feel some altruistic sense of duty to provide you with all the luxuries you enjoy.

There's nothing wrong with working hard to that end. The problem is the general public concensus that Americans, as a whole, somehow deserve better than anyone else, regardless of what they do or accomplish on a personal level.

Oh I couldn't agree more. No one is entitled to something they haven't worked for ... and most Americans don't want to work for anything.

There's a particularly invidious strain of this regarding parents: it's the Mommy Industrial Complex. They're out to get you to buy the most ridiculous products because "Don't you want the best for your precious child?" If it can be marketed as somehow safer or more comfortable for your child, they'll do it.

The car companies are particularly good at this kind of marketing.

As I look at Hummers...I like to think different strokes for different folks..Let everyone live with their own choices.
But a question..Say you are stuck on a desert island with a 375 pound food devouring glutton..Would you give up a part of your limited ration of food( limited supply) because this person needs more food than you.??
I think limited supplies of gasoline applies to Hummers..They are hungrier..The make the supply more scarce and raise prices for you...Make you feel any better, since they can afford the luxury of a vehicle that conumes eight times the gas per mile.
It is your allotment the gluttons are demanding.

I'll second that sentiment.

I dislike the fact that most politicians here feels the need to tread lightly on anything oil-related. They can't speak out against oversized and unjustifiable SUVs for fear of offending the gas-guzzling electorate. The overriding sentiment of entitlement in the United States is sickening. The whole idea that we are the greatest nation in the world, are fundamentally superior, and are thus entitled to anything we damn well want, including consuming half the world's resources, producing 2/3 of its waste, and driving a Hummer H2 through Manhattan.

I heard something on the radio this morning suggesting that a number of countries (including, but certainly not limited to, the US) were calling on the oil producing nations to increase their output/reduce their prices. I always thought in a capitalist state, the idea was that people were free to make as much money as they possibly can? Yet here were the same people who preach the capitalist gospel trying to apply a communist principle. Am I the only one who can see the double-standard?

Mayor Ken for President! Oh wait! Nevermind, if we allow mayor ken to run then we would have to allow Arnold to run too. There's always a downside...<sigh>

I Am I the only one who can see the double-standard?

No. Being in Canada, I wasn't too keen on the free trade agreement when it was being worked out in the 80's and after it passed I thought it was even worse when the US slapped huge traiffs on our BC wood because, the US wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

I recently read, "From Free Trade to Forced Trade" and the premise was that, despite the retoric surrounding "free" trade, the reality is, arrangements will always be made throughout the economy to encourage certain industries and endenvors. Most industries require and receive help in the early stages of development to be healthy, and believe it or not, the WTO actually keeps industries and countries in line by forcing them to follow a set of rules even if it doesn't benefit the strongest intrests (like when Canada won a ruling on the US tariffs being unfair)

** Just a reminder - these are the books lessons - I'm no economist, and I don't pretend to be one (in life or on TV)**

I heard something on the radio this morning suggesting that a number of countries (including, but certainly not limited to, the US) were calling on the oil producing nations to increase their output/reduce their prices. I always thought in a capitalist state, the idea was that people were free to make as much money as they possibly can? Yet here were the same people who preach the capitalist gospel trying to apply a communist principle. Am I the only one who can see the double-standard?
The question here...As I see it...Fair prices are based on a competitive market..Did we not face this question when we supposedly inacted anti-trust laws as a result of the racketering era..
So if production is not subject to competition, do we have true capitalism?

No. Being in Canada, I wasn't too keen on the free trade agreement when it was being worked out in the 80's and after it passed I thought it was even worse when the US slapped huge traiffs on our BC wood because, the US wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

(like when Canada won a ruling on the US tariffs being unfair)


Has that actually affected anything. As far as I heard "yes the states are breaking the rules but still don't bother to follow them". Is that still true or did my boycot of the news make me miss something actually news worthy?

Has that actually affected anything.

You bet!

A large part of the BC economy is forestry and the tariffs on the shake and single industry (ruled illegal by the WTO) has put thousands of BCers out of work and kept jobs alive in the southern states.

A similar situation occurred when the states decided to put a tarriff on Prince Edward Island potatos (which was also ruled illegal by the WTO)

if production is not subject to competition, do we have true capitalism?

Of course not. We only have a version of it. A version intrests lobby for. Like a TOO BIG automotive transport system.

You bet!

A large part of the BC economy is forestry and the tariffs on the shake and single industry (ruled illegal by the WTO) has put thousands of BCers out of work and kept jobs alive in the southern states.

A similar situation occurred when the states decided to put a tarriff on Prince Edward Island potatos (which was also ruled illegal by the WTO)

Sorry you misunderstood..I realize the effects of the tarrif. What I was asking was has the ruling actually changed anything. Last I heard the usa in all their glory were still ignoring the law regarding this even with 2 rulings against them.

You bet!

A large part of the BC economy is forestry and the tariffs on the shake and single industry (ruled illegal by the WTO) has put thousands of BCers out of work and kept jobs alive in the southern states

The lumber industry down here is in a world of hurt people are losing jobs that are never coming back.

BTW, how are all our car manufacturing jobs doing? You don't want us then send those back down here.

I like what they do in Singapore...You drive into the congested central business district..They meter the time you are there, and you pay for each minute in that given area..
The system is called Electronic Road Pricing or ERP for short.
The fee is deducted from a cash-card wireless reader when you pass through a gantry.

It's turned on during peak hours (morning rush hour) and (after-work peak hour), and it's normally at those roads that get congested easily.

For the Central Business District (CBD) area, the gantry is on only at certain times.

:)

BTW, how are all our car manufacturing jobs doing? You don't want us then send those back down here.
As a former Michiganian, I speak of the breakfast cereal industry..Last I read, Battle Creek is no longer the Cereal city...Unless, you are an executive...Corporate only...
Kellogg's corn flakes now comes from Saskatchewan and Mexico..Is Saskatchewan that cheap for labor ?.... Guess, they have lots of corn.

The lumber industry down here is in a world of hurt people are losing jobs that are never coming back.

BTW, how are all our car manufacturing jobs doing? You don't want us then send those back down here.

The Auto Pact is a great example of how policy can benefit everyone. It absolutely is not free trade, but an arranged agreement between parties, and it manages to be good for all concerned.

Sort of like good public transit helps the majority by freeing up the roads and no public transit leaves gridlock from too many cars.

Goes back to London's mayor saying those trips to pick up / drop off school kids are idiotic.

Sorry you misunderstood..I realize the effects of the tarrif. What I was asking was has the ruling actually changed anything. Last I heard the usa in all their glory were still ignoring the law regarding this even with 2 rulings against them.

The US will still roll along doing what it likes and take years before it finally does change anything, but they eventually will, and most likely, end up doing something else wrong starting the circle again.

If it's any consolation, even though our reasoning disagrees in an area of concern for both of us, I just got to say, I'm pleased Tampa's in the final.

And not Philly? Now you're on MY ignore list :)

As for the article - why is there no one of any political authority like this guy in the U.S.? He speaks his mind against constituents' behavior like nothing you'd ever see in this country. I'm almost jealous.

The US will still roll along doing what it likes and take years before it finally does change anything, but they eventually will, and most likely, end up doing something else wrong starting the circle again.

I don't know about the rulings but those tariffs were imposed on Canada when they were dumping their products at a cheap market value to corner the market. That tactic lost many of our workers their jobs. WWhy don't you come down here sometime and see just how strong our lumber industry is.

So it is good when it provides you with jobs but bad when we try to protect our jobs. It seems like the cool thing now is to attack America.

I don't know about the rulings

You can read the WTO's ruling if you want to know about those rulings. They ruled there was no dumping, that what was produced was a result of an effecient industry producing superior product for less money and sold in a fair manner.


So it is good when it provides you with jobs but bad when we try to protect our jobs. It seems like the cool thing now is to attack America.

Not attacking here, just pointing out sometimes free trade rules aren't followed and maybe good social policy (like over use of personal transportation - aka - using huge SUV's to pick up kids at school - could be changed to something more beneficial to everyone - cleaner air, clearer roads, lower costs of oil due to less demand) could have a place to make the world a better place.

Like I said, I'm no economist just passing along a little of what I've read.

And not Philly? Now you're on MY ignore list :)

Loved Clarke as a player, (I was in the house during the 72 summit series) hate him as a GM.

Quebec (Colorado) loved him as a GM, he practically handed them the Stanley Cup with the Lindro's trade.

I like that a new team and a low paid, underdog team are in the final.

Go Flames!!!

Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to the finals. Tampa has looked really strong throughout the playoffs and Calgary does indeed have finances stacked against them. It'll be some good sport.

You can read the WTO's ruling if you want to know about those rulings. They ruled there was no dumping, that what was produced was a result of an effecient industry producing superior product for less money and sold in a fair manner.



Not attacking here, just pointing out sometimes free trade rules aren't followed and maybe good social policy (like over use of personal transportation - aka - using huge SUV's to pick up kids at school - could be changed to something more beneficial to everyone - cleaner air, clearer roads, lower costs of oil due to less demand) could have a place to make the world a better place.

Like I said, I'm no economist just passing along a little of what I've read.

Cleaner water like maybe when Victoria stops pumping raw sewage inot our mutual water ways. That social policy needs to transend borders as well; as the trade policies Canada is no pure saint in either case.

Cleaner water like maybe when Victoria stops pumping raw sewage inot our mutual water ways. That social policy needs to transend borders as well; as the trade policies Canada is no pure saint in either case.

Look, what are you trying to do? Pick a fight? Are you trying to say Canada is the source of the US's woes? I'm not interested here. Go to the political forum for that. Or better yet send me a private email.

Let's try to stay on the topic about the mayor's comments and how it relates to cycling as Chris L. did pointing out some problems with oil production and it's effect on the mayors comments on people using oil wastefully.

You bet!

A large part of the BC economy is forestry and the tariffs on the shake and single industry (ruled illegal by the WTO) has put thousands of BCers out of work and kept jobs alive in the southern states.

A similar situation occurred when the states decided to put a tarriff on Prince Edward Island potatos (which was also ruled illegal by the WTO)

I started by answering this post are you trying to start a fight? You brought up the forest tariffs I brought up the fact that they started because the Canadian Lumber industry started dumping their products in our market. You seem to be trying to say that all the woes with your country started here.

I don't think I need to say a thing.

Your logic speaks for itself.

...Go Flames!!!

Not trying to start anything but... AMEN TO THAT. Go Kipper!!

--J

Goes to show who runs the show in the States. Oil, not people.

And you think the people are any more enlightened than oil? Most people are terribly, terribly impressed with big SUVs and/or big 4x4 pickups or else they would not be so eager to buy them. Hence the success of cheaper rigs like the Hyundai Santa Fe and Jeep Liberty. People just eat these up, the world be damned.

Coincidentally, the CBS evening news did a story this week on gas, uh petrol, prices in London. If I recall correctly, Londoners pay the equivalent of $5.50 per gallon. And what effect have these prices had on driving and car-buying habits?

Zero.

I heard something on the radio this morning suggesting that a number of countries (including, but certainly not limited to, the US) were calling on the oil producing nations to increase their output/reduce their prices. I always thought in a capitalist state, the idea was that people were free to make as much money as they possibly can? Yet here were the same people who preach the capitalist gospel trying to apply a communist principle. Am I the only one who can see the double-standard?
The oil market is not a free market; the price of oil is fixed by a cartel of countries (OPEC) who carefully manage output, and thus manage the price. There's not enough capacity outside of OPEC to move the price very much -- if OPEC wants oil to be $40 a barrel, that's what it will be.

Ken Livingstone is up for re-election soon in the forthcoming vote...

It will be ver`i interesting to see if he is returned.....

"The oil market is not a free market; the price of oil is fixed by a cartel of countries (OPEC) who carefully manage output, and thus manage the price. "

In essence this is correct; but most of the excess oil production in the world is controlled by the Saudis. The Saudi Oil Minisitry is very careful about regualting the price of oil through their production; if it goes too high they worry it could start a world recession. They tend to open the taps when oil prices get too high. In addition, Saudi crude is a very fine grade and easily refined, unlike, say Venezualan crude, which is harder to refine.

Most of the countries in OPEC actually wind up ignoring OPEC quotas and pump more than their quota. But it's really the Saudis who control world oil prices more than anything else. However, if demand outstrips supply, it won't matter in the slightest what the Saudi Oil Ministry wants the price to be-- it will go up.

Ken Livingstone is up for re-election soon in the forthcoming vote...
It will be ver`i interesting to see if he is returned.....

I hope old "Red Ken" does get it. He started off with the congestion charge, that everybody and his dog ranted about being totally unworkable. They whinged and panted about how much disruption it would cause and how futile it would be. Now it's been proven a success and all the loud-mouthed self-interest groups have gone quiet.

The guy is my kind of left-wing nutbar. For once somebody who cares more about doing the right thing than lining his wallet or getting re-elected. Proof of that being his subsequent comments about SUVs. Finally a prominent politician has come out and said what so many of us are thinking, without the fear of focus groups.

Maybe, one day, he might even have enough support to enact the kind of "wacko" changes they've done here in Paris. I've been here 2 yrs so don't know what it was like before the changes, but I can tell you I LOVE IT! Cycling in Paris, even with the (too true) stereotypes of mad French drivers, is wonderful! All these spanking wide boulevards with bus lanes I can use, and all the cycle paths on the main roads.. I LOVE IT! I never feel unsafe or scared or closed in. Kudos to the mayor of Paris.

I just get so frustrated that whenever a politician even voices the thought of doing something like this all the soccer moms and car companies and big business and rightwing press go mental proclaiming what stupid, unworkable ideas they are... and then... surprise surprise THEY WORK!

Maybe one day Red Ken will have the power to actually do something about SUVs. Until then, I can at least be glad he's come out and said what's on a lot of our minds.