A baffling incident

[krysoul]

OK, so I'm cruising around Bear Creek Lake Park here in Colorado, its a nice wide open expanse of land with lots of great paths, quiet roads, etc, and anyways I ride past this guy riding in a cool sit-down bike. He wasnt pedaling with his feet though, he was pumping it with his arms. Hes sitting about 1 foot off the ground, comfortably in a seat, he was going probably 7 MPH, and yet he was wearing a helmet! Im sorry but after I (safely, mind you) went around him I kind of chuckled to myself, cause the first thing I thought of was 'its the new walking helmet!' i wonder when our government, or the pro-helmet fearmonglers here will start lobbying for the walking helmet. anyways, i would just like some insight from helmet wearers as to why that guy was wearing one, i mean its one thing for some crazy downhill cliff jumping mtn biker to wear one, but like i said, he was on a quiet path, sitting nicely 1 foot off the ground, going about 7 MPH! please, am i not the only one who found that ridiculous?

[roadfix]

No, I can bet you you're the only person who found it to be ridiculous.

[slvoid]

Was it like a 'bent?

Helmets are for protection, simple as that. You don't have to be going 20mph to need a helmet. If he's as low as I think he is, all the more reason for him to wear one, especially if he decides to get on the road.

[Allister]

Was it like a 'bent?

Helmets are for protection, simple as that. You don't have to be going 20mph to need a helmet. If he's as low as I think he is, all the more reason for him to wear one, especially if he decides to get on the road.

So I take it you wear a walking helmet then?

[slvoid]

So I take it you wear a walking helmet then?

This would be easier if you stop putting words in my mouth and tell me what a walking helmet is.

[The Rob]

A helmet at 7 mph will not likely be necessary. A helmet while riding in conditions that offer the risk of another vehicle smacking you at a considerably higher velocity: quite possibly very necessary.

I don't wear my helmet simply because I think I might injure myself, see?

[catatonic]

You sure he wasn't a paraplegic?

I know there are recumbent and 3 or 4 wheeled bikes for those who can't use their legs that are arm powered.

[ngateguy]

You sure he wasn't a paraplegic?

Probably was I pass one on my commute, btw this guy goes faster than 7mph.

My old roommate once had a bike mishap without a helmet required 20 stitches and got a concussion. He fell off his bike at a stop sign going 0mph. it doesn't mater how fast its how hard you fall.

[LittleBigMan]

Man, these guys on arm-powered bikes have to be strong. The human leg is so much stronger that the arm, it's ridiculous.

What was the question?

:p

[Chris L]

So I take it you wear a walking helmet then?

I'm waiting for someone to market one. Geez, it can't be that hard! A few vents to keep the temperature down, and something to keep the sun off should just about do it.

[slvoid]

You sure he wasn't a paraplegic?

I know there are recumbent and 3 or 4 wheeled bikes for those who can't use their legs that are arm powered.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry if it turns out that this whole thread started because some guy decided to make fun of a paraplegic...

[DnvrFox]

OK, so I'm cruising around Bear Creek Lake Park here in Colorado, its a nice wide open expanse of land with lots of great paths, quiet roads, etc, and anyways I ride past this guy riding in a cool sit-down bike. He wasnt pedaling with his feet though, he was pumping it with his arms. Hes sitting about 1 foot off the ground, comfortably in a seat, he was going probably 7 MPH, and yet he was wearing a helmet! Im sorry but after I (safely, mind you) went around him I kind of chuckled to myself, cause the first thing I thought of was 'its the new walking helmet!' i wonder when our government, or the pro-helmet fearmonglers here will start lobbying for the walking helmet. anyways, i would just like some insight from helmet wearers as to why that guy was wearing one, i mean its one thing for some crazy downhill cliff jumping mtn biker to wear one, but like i said, he was on a quiet path, sitting nicely 1 foot off the ground, going about 7 MPH! please, am i not the only one who found that ridiculous?

1. Bear Creek Lake Park has a couple of pretty good hills and you can get going pretty fast going over Mt. Carbon. It is a winding trail with sharp grades.

2. There are many riders that come zooming down and go fast and dangerously around other folks. I wear a helmet partially to protect myself from wild bike riders that DON'T go around someone safely.

You really need to find something else to occupy your time, instead of picking on and complaining about someone who decided to wear a helmet for whatever reason. Why do you care and why does it upset you enough to post on a bike forum about it? Get a life.

[jfmckenna]

OK, so I'm cruising around Bear Creek Lake Park here in Colorado, its a nice wide open expanse of land with lots of great paths, quiet roads, etc, and anyways I ride past this guy riding in a cool sit-down bike. He wasnt pedaling with his feet though, he was pumping it with his arms. Hes sitting about 1 foot off the ground, comfortably in a seat, he was going probably 7 MPH, and yet he was wearing a helmet! Im sorry but after I (safely, mind you) went around him I kind of chuckled to myself, cause the first thing I thought of was 'its the new walking helmet!' i wonder when our government, or the pro-helmet fearmonglers here will start lobbying for the walking helmet. anyways, i would just like some insight from helmet wearers as to why that guy was wearing one, i mean its one thing for some crazy downhill cliff jumping mtn biker to wear one, but like i said, he was on a quiet path, sitting nicely 1 foot off the ground, going about 7 MPH! please, am i not the only one who found that ridiculous?

ummmmm What?

your either a troll, young stupid fool or a calous slug, come on fess up.
You may find life less troubling if you mind your own friggin business.

[Grampy™]

Sorry krysoul, but you are acting kinda like a jerk. It's called a hand cycle, used by paraplegics. What do you expect him to do? Sit home and suffer out of your view? Evidently he feels his brain is more important than you do......

[Gus Riley]

Man, these guys on arm-powered bikes have to be strong. The human leg is so much stronger that the arm, it's ridiculous.

What was the question?

:p

I see several of these bikes being ridden every year (that I have ridden) at Iowa's RAGBRAI, Wisconsin's GRABAAWR, North Dakota's CANDISC, and North Carolina's CNC. These people go the distance too. Impressive!

[greaper007]

Not to mention that if someone's a paraplegic they probably value the mobility they still have more than your unlimited mobility.

[krysoul]

i dont know how any got the impression that i was 'picking on', or 'making fun' of the guy, sorry if you think like that. and no, im not a troll, but thanks for the stupid comment. look i was impressed with the guy, i just thought it was stretching it a bit TOO far. helmets are not necessary in every situation and i feel bad for the person that thinks they are. apparently the guy wouldnt be comfortable w/o a helmet, so good for him. he can do whatever he wants. its funny, you guys bash me for thinking that wearing a helmet at 7 MPH is stretching it, but when this same guy is driving 70 on a busy highway, oh its all good! sorry but a lot of the people here come off as arrogant, saying stupid stuff like 'he values his brain more than you!' and 'youre a troll!' i value my brain as much as you do, thanks. maybe one of the reasons i havent owned a car in 3 years (im 20) and almost never even ride in cars anymore (instead i bike, of course!) is because i value my safety. were all friends here i just think that the 'im so much smarter and better than you are because IM wearing a helmet!' act is so weak.

[Dutchy]

What are the laws in your area? Are cyclist's required to wear a helmet?

CHEERS.

Mark

[jfmckenna]

i just thought it was stretching it a bit TOO far. helmets are not necessary in every situation and i feel bad for the person that thinks they are.

Like I said mind your own friggin busines. If the guy wants to wear a helmet or a tutu what do you care.

i just think that the 'im so much smarter and better than you are because IM wearing a helmet!' act is so weak.

sure but I think that the "im so much smarter and better than you are because I think that other people think that, 'im so much smarter and better than you are because IM wearing a helmet!' " act is even more absurd.

[slvoid]

Put it this way, if he is indeed disabled, I'm sure he wants to preserve whatever function he has plus the fact that he's a lot lower than a regular bike and has less visibility. Plus it's probably the law.
When I go cruising around the neighborhood at 7mph, I wear a helmet. Here, let me top it off, at night, I will have full blinkers front and rear and a helmet with reflective tape all over it and I will go at 7mph if I want to. It's for my safety and it's the law.
It's like saying, well he's only driving to the grocery store, why wear seat belts, hell why even close the door completely.

[Merriwether]

It's for my safety and it's the law.


The law requires that adults wear bicycle helmets in NYCity? Are you sure?

It's not a state law in New York, and the pathetic bhsi doesn't list any special NYCity law on its site.

I'm curious, so if you have more information I would be interested to hear it.

It's still unusual for adults to be required to wear a bicycle helmet in various jurisdictions in the U.S. This is sensible. Unlike driving without wearing a seatbelt, it's not very risky to ride a bicycle without a helmet. A helmet isn't necessary for reasonably safe operation of a bicycle-- certainly not by adults. Though the pro-helmet groups make wildly exaggerated claims about the benefits of helmets, a law requiring helmets would probably be counterproductive in that it would discourage many adult cyclists from riding. That would likely be much worse than many people riding with no helmet from a public health standpoint.

[DanFromDetroit]

What you describe sounds like a "hand-cycle". He was probably wearing a helmet for the same reason anyone does. Hand-cycles can go quite fast (I'm not really sure how fast though). I don't think 7mph is anywhere near the top speed on one of these.

These cycles are very low to the ground and less visible than an ordinary cycle on the road; so as RobCat pointed out, a collision with someone in another vehicle is a real possibiilty.

Dan

[slvoid]

The law requires that adults wear bicycle helmets in NYCity? Are you sure?

It's not a state law in New York, and the pathetic bhsi doesn't list any special NYCity law on its site.

I'm curious, so if you have more information I would be interested to hear it.

It's still unusual for adults to be required to wear a bicycle helmet in various jurisdictions in the U.S. This is sensible. Unlike driving without wearing a seatbelt, it's not very risky to ride a bicycle without a helmet. A helmet isn't necessary for reasonably safe operation of a bicycle-- certainly not by adults. Though the pro-helmet groups make wildly exaggerated claims about the benefits of helmets, a law requiring helmets would probably be counterproductive in that it would discourage many adult cyclists from riding. That would likely be much worse than many people riding with no helmet from a public health standpoint.

Oh wait, you're right, that's only for kids under 14.
Regardless, I still wear a helmet. Despite what you may think, I actually have been in two accidents in the past year where without a helmet, I would've suffered significant trauma. First was when I endo'ed and landed on the side of my head. The second was last week when I slid out at 20 going around a corner and in the process of sliding along the pavement slammed my head against the ground in a tumble.

Then there are accidents completely out of your control, like what if you were to get bumped in a paceline and end up landing and cracking your skull on a curb?

Next time you get into an accident where your head makes unintentional contact with the ground at high speed and assuming you survive, you might want to re-evaluate just how much difference a little piece of foam on your head can make. If however, you don't think you'll ever get into an accident or you have lightning quick catwoman like reflexes to make sure you always tumble with your head away from said ground, more power to you.

No, I will not now nor ever advocate mandatory helmet usage. Nor do I want seatbelts to be mandatory. I am strongly pro-darwin and if people don't think they need seatbelts or helmets, they shouldn't have to use them. I will however, continue nagging the hell out of those I care about to use them.

[Joat]

I can't stand helmets, and so far, still don't use one. Even though I insist that my kids wear theirs for safety. Not just because it's a law. Ahhh, the dichotomy of parenting!

I am actually considering getting a helmet, but my squash is huge, and so far have not found a helmet that is even remotely comfortable. Any other Great Pumpkins out there that can recommend a helmet?

[ngateguy]

I can't stand helmets, and so far, still don't use one. Even though I insist that my kids wear theirs for safety. Not just because it's a law. Ahhh, the dichotomy of parenting!

I am actually considering getting a helmet, but my squash is huge, and so far have not found a helmet that is even remotely comfortable. Any other Great Pumpkins out there that can recommend a helmet?

I too have a big head I wear a Bell Ghisallo

[Stubacca]

I wear a helmet when I'm stopped on the bike. I wear a helmet when I'm just cruising along under 10mph. I wear a helmet at a 23mph spin on the flats. I wear a helmet descending at 35mph plus.

This usually all happens on the same ride.

All arguments about when to wear a helmet aside, do you seriously think this guy was riding at 7mph for his whole ride?

[MKRG]

I wear my helmet on my head in the grocery store when I ride my bike there. Cleats are nice and slippery on those floors and the people there driving the grocery carts are crazy :D My head actually is a nice place to stow my helmet for short forays into shops and whatnot. Whether it looks silly or not doesn't bother me. I think it may however show other adults that it is entirely possible and healthy to use a bike for short trips and small loads.

[DnvrFox]

I wear a helmet when I'm stopped on the bike. I wear a helmet when I'm just cruising along under 10mph. I wear a helmet at a 23mph spin on the flats. I wear a helmet descending at 35mph plus.

This usually all happens on the same ride.

All arguments about when to wear a helmet aside, do you seriously think this guy was riding at 7mph for his whole ride?

I am pretty sure I have ridden by this guy when at Bear Lake Park, and have seen him on the steep trail up and over Mt. Carbon.

It would seem sort of silly to have to take your helmet off (as Krysoul might suggest) when you are going just seven miles per hour, and then put it on when you are cruising down the 6-8% grades on Mt. Carbon. Where would you put it when you were going seven miles per hour? And, Krysoul, is seven the magic number? Would you suggest wearing the helmet at 8 miles per hour? Or nine? or ten? Just when is it worthwhile, in your seemingly expert opinion, to place it on your head?

Goodness, we need a new bolt-on for our bikes - a helmet carrier for when we are going under a cetain speed (i.e., 7 mph)!

Maybe I will market one and call it the "Krysoul" attachment!

[madpogue]

i dont know how any got the impression that i was 'picking on', or 'making fun' of the guy, sorry if you think like that. and no, im not a troll, but thanks for the stupid comment. look i was impressed with the guy, i just thought it was stretching it a bit TOO far. helmets are not necessary in every situation and i feel bad for the person that thinks they are. apparently the guy wouldnt be comfortable w/o a helmet, so good for him. he can do whatever he wants. its funny, you guys bash me for thinking that wearing a helmet at 7 MPH is stretching it, but when this same guy is driving 70 on a busy highway, oh its all good! sorry but a lot of the people here come off as arrogant, saying stupid stuff like 'he values his brain more than you!' and 'youre a troll!' i value my brain as much as you do, thanks. maybe one of the reasons i havent owned a car in 3 years (im 20) and almost never even ride in cars anymore (instead i bike, of course!) is because i value my safety. were all friends here i just think that the 'im so much smarter and better than you are because IM wearing a helmet!' act is so weak. There's an old expression (excuse the now-unacceptable nomenclature): "All Indians walk in single file. At least the one I saw did." The fallacy, of course, is in generalizing on one observation. You committed this same fallacy in two distinct ways:

(1) Assuming that this guy rides at 7 MPH all (or even most) of the time. Apparently it didn't occur to you that he might ride much faster at times. Should he remove his helmet when he slows down, to satisfy your preconceptions? Should we all?

(2) Assuming that he only rides on the paths. What if he rode a street to get to the park? If you're riding on the street, your speed is irrelevant to the need for a helmet. Why? Because if you get hit from behind by a car going, say, 20 MPH, it doesn't much matter how fast you're going. You're gonna hurtle forward at something close to 20 MPH, and eventually hit the ground. For that matter, this could happen on the path, with a bicyclist going 20 MPH colliding with another cyclist going 7 MPH.

Presuming that the guy you observed did not, at some time during his ride that day, find himself in a circumstance that calls for a helmet is what really constitutes "stretching it".

[digger]

OK, so I'm cruising around Bear Creek Lake Park here in Colorado, its a nice wide open expanse of land with lots of great paths, quiet roads, etc, and anyways I ride past this guy riding in a cool sit-down bike. He wasnt pedaling with his feet though, he was pumping it with his arms. Hes sitting about 1 foot off the ground, comfortably in a seat, he was going probably 7 MPH, and yet he was wearing a helmet! Im sorry but after I (safely, mind you) went around him I kind of chuckled to myself, cause the first thing I thought of was 'its the new walking helmet!' i wonder when our government, or the pro-helmet fearmonglers here will start lobbying for the walking helmet. anyways, i would just like some insight from helmet wearers as to why that guy was wearing one, i mean its one thing for some crazy downhill cliff jumping mtn biker to wear one, but like i said, he was on a quiet path, sitting nicely 1 foot off the ground, going about 7 MPH! please, am i not the only one who found that ridiculous?


If he wants to wear a helmet, so what? Not hurtin you any.

Digger

[NCNC]

YOu know, Too be honest, 7km per hour, for someone like me, whos totally new, 7km can feel pretty fast. I clocked in by a speed montoring sign thing at 10km and it felt pretty fast. If I had fllen off my bike at that point, I know I could have smashed my head in if it had hit the pavement.
Also, I'e seen those bikes, and too be quite honest, that guy had to have gotten to that apth somehow, and even though he may have been going what you may have perceived to be slow, on a soft and empty trail, why would he have taken his helmet off once he got to the paths...anyways....
Just wantd to throw in that 7km, isnt THAT slow, ep.s for newbies like me

[madpogue]

YOu know, Too be honest, 7km per hour, for someone like me, whos totally new, 7km can feel pretty fast. I clocked in by a speed montoring sign thing at 10km and it felt pretty fast. If I had fllen off my bike at that point, I know I could have smashed my head in if it had hit the pavement.Actually, he was going 7 MPH, which is just a hair faster than the 10 km/h that you were going when you were clocked.

[bentbaggerlen]

Its a rowbike,(http://www.rowbike.com/) Great for a upper body workout. They are at Interbike almost every year. There are others that build them as well as Rowbike. You want to work the abs? get yourself one.

[Trevor98]

It is amazing just how far the pro helmet lobby has gone.

Here are the statistics the BHSI provides (http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm)

There are 85 million bicycle riders in the US and about 800 bicyclists die in the US every year (odds 1:106,250).
About 540,000 bicyclists visit emergency rooms with injuries every year (odds 1:157). Of those, about 67,000 have head injuries (odds 1:1268). What defines a "head injury"? A broken jaw is a head injury? (67K:540K= 1:8 injuries are to the head)
Two-thirds of the deaths here are from traumatic brain injury. (2/3 X 800 = 533.33).
Many years of potential life are lost because about half of the deaths are children under 15 years old. (1/2 X 800 = 400).
Helmets are cheap. The typical discount store price has risen from under $10 to about $15, but there are still models available for under $10 at major retailers. ($15 X 85,000,000 =$1,275,000,000 potential market).

As an adult I have about a 1 in 318,750 chance (85,000,000/((800/2)*2/3)) of dying of a head injury on a bike. .Given all this inf: sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes I don't. I found a statistic that most injuries happen in your own driveway (akin to the car "most accidents happen with in 5 miles of home) so I don't ride in my driveway ;) .

What's missing: Statistics of how many of the ~533 head injury deaths were properly wearing a helmets or would have been helped by a helmet (your head gets run over by a semi no helmet is going to save you).
How many of the 67,000 injuries to the head would have been prevented by helmets by people not wearing helmets? How have mandatory helmet laws for minors effected death/injury statistics?
How many people see the helmet campaign as a sign that bikes are dangerous and avoid the activity while blissfully ignorant that pedestrians or car passengers are more likely to be hurt/killed than cyclists? (thereby changing the statistics)

As an adult I have about a 1 in 318,750 chance (85,000,000/((800/2)*2/3)) of dying of a head injury on a bike. .Given all this inf: sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes I don't. I found a statistic that most injuries happen in your own driveway (akin to the car "most accidents happen with in 5 miles of home) so I don't ride in my driveway ;) .

I think the best statistic I have run across is that if only female adults rode bikes virtually no one would die from bike accidents (~50 adult women die per year) :) .

[ngateguy]

Whats also missing is how many of those head injuries were without helmets not a very good study also you odo wonders with numbers but they don't really mean anything.

[Chris L]

Whats also missing is how many of those head injuries were without helmets not a very good study also you odo wonders with numbers but they don't really mean anything.

What's also also missing is the number of people who have helmets yet don't use them properly. What about those morons who tie their helmets to the handlebars rather than actually wearing them (something common out here where we have mandatory helmet laws), then claiming to have "been wearing it all along" if anybody asks. How are they reflected in the statistics?

[slvoid]

It is amazing just how far the pro helmet lobby has gone.


Lobby my ass. Maybe I'm amazingly lucky against all odds because in the last year along, I've had 2 situations where without a helmet, I would've either been horribly injured or killed. I wear a helmet because of experience, because I value my life, and because unlike the poster, I don't find it excessive. Full body armor? no. Simple helmet? yes.
Everyone else, I'm assuming, is smart enough to set their own limits.

[N_C]

OK, so I'm cruising around Bear Creek Lake Park here in Colorado, its a nice wide open expanse of land with lots of great paths, quiet roads, etc, and anyways I ride past this guy riding in a cool sit-down bike. He wasnt pedaling with his feet though, he was pumping it with his arms. Hes sitting about 1 foot off the ground, comfortably in a seat, he was going probably 7 MPH, and yet he was wearing a helmet! Im sorry but after I (safely, mind you) went around him I kind of chuckled to myself, cause the first thing I thought of was 'its the new walking helmet!' i wonder when our government, or the pro-helmet fearmonglers here will start lobbying for the walking helmet. anyways, i would just like some insight from helmet wearers as to why that guy was wearing one, i mean its one thing for some crazy downhill cliff jumping mtn biker to wear one, but like i said, he was on a quiet path, sitting nicely 1 foot off the ground, going about 7 MPH! please, am i not the only one who found that ridiculous?

Hey krysoul, don't you know that all it takes to end your life with an impact to your head is a speed of 5 mph and impacting an object no larger then 2 square inches with only 6 inches of travel distance from your head to what ever you impact with it? Obviously not! The 5 mph speed is the speed at which your head is travelling at, it does not include the speed you are going on a bicycle. Like in this instance the guy you saw was going 7 mph on his bike. And most objects our heads would come in contact with during an impact are a hell of a lot larger then 2 square inches. Plus this guy was 1 foot above the ground. I'm guessing that is his butt, so his head was probably another 8" to 12" higher.

So no this is not ridiculous! And shame on you for thinking so!

It does sound like he was riding a hand pedal recumbent trike. I've seen lots of them and I commend the people who ride them.

Tell you what krysoul, why don't you not wear your helmet anymore, or if you don't wear one, never start. That way when you crash and impact your head none of us here will have to worry about you breeding a new generation of ignorant darwin award winners.

If it is one thing I can't freaking stand is people like you who have a problem with disabled people doing things like the guy you saw was. Tell me do you think they should ne locked away in a room, out of public sight & mind? Do your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk?

[juciluci]

Tell you what krysoul, why don't you not wear your helmet anymore, or if you don't wear one, never start. That way when you crash and impact your head none of us here will have to worry about you breeding a new generation of ignorant darwin award winners.

If it is one thing I can't freaking stand is people like you who have a problem with disabled people doing things like the guy you saw was. Tell me do you think they should ne locked away in a room, out of public sight & mind? Do your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk?

you know John... there is a way to voice your opinions and then stopping.. those last two paragraphs were completely unwarranted. this is what instilled anger in other forums you attended before. please, think before you write. you can make more friends that way. just some friendly advice.


> as for my take on this thread- you have to wear a helmet even when in the transition zone during a duathalon/ triathalon... rules help keep ppl safe. i personally do not like helmets but i wear one BEFORE i even get on the bike.. yes even to do my grocery shopping- jk. :)

[p38karl]

I have ridden 53 mph on a bike and later ridden 7 mph or less on the same bike. I ride a handcycle and you feel quite vulnerable at that height, also sometimes I ride it in relaxed mode and later ride faster. I flipped it at 25 mph on a downhill last fall.

[this_is_me]

:fight: you know John... there is a way to voice your opinions and then stopping.. those last two paragraphs were completely unwarranted. this is what instilled anger in other forums you attended before. please, think before you write. you can make more friends that way. just some friendly advice.


> as for my take on this thread- you have to wear a helmet even when in the transition zone during a duathalon/ triathalon... rules help keep ppl safe. i personally do not like helmets but i wear one BEFORE i even get on the bike.. yes even to do my grocery shopping- jk. :)

tsk! tsk! tsk!

[Chris L]

Tell you what krysoul, why don't you not wear your helmet anymore, or if you don't wear one, never start. That way when you crash and impact your head none of us here will have to worry about you breeding a new generation of ignorant darwin award winners.

If it is one thing I can't freaking stand is people like you who have a problem with disabled people doing things like the guy you saw was. Tell me do you think they should ne locked away in a room, out of public sight & mind? Do your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk?

Nobody, certainly not Krysoul, was criticising disabled people. Krysoul was merely making an observation about helmets, and giving an opinion on whether one was necessary in a particular situation -- an opinion that others in this thread have also subscribed to, even if I don't personally agree with it.

I have to ask you something, however. Everytime a post appears on this forum that you might consider a little offensive, you have no hesitation in reporting it. However, it appears from this post that you have no problem using the same tactics to "win" an argument (if it can be called that). There is an old saying about people who live in glass houses, and I suggest you might be advised to read up on it.

[hollow]

It is amazing just how far the pro helmet lobby has gone.

Here are the statistics the BHSI provides (http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm)

There are 85 million bicycle riders in the US and about 800 bicyclists die in the US every year (odds 1:106,250).
About 540,000 bicyclists visit emergency rooms with injuries every year (odds 1:157). Of those, about 67,000 have head injuries (odds 1:1268). What defines a "head injury"? A broken jaw is a head injury? (67K:540K= 1:8 injuries are to the head)
Two-thirds of the deaths here are from traumatic brain injury. (2/3 X 800 = 533.33).
Many years of potential life are lost because about half of the deaths are children under 15 years old. (1/2 X 800 = 400).
Helmets are cheap. The typical discount store price has risen from under $10 to about $15, but there are still models available for under $10 at major retailers. ($15 X 85,000,000 =$1,275,000,000 potential market).

As an adult I have about a 1 in 318,750 chance (85,000,000/((800/2)*2/3)) of dying of a head injury on a bike. .Given all this inf: sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes I don't. I found a statistic that most injuries happen in your own driveway (akin to the car "most accidents happen with in 5 miles of home) so I don't ride in my driveway ;) .

What's missing: Statistics of how many of the ~533 head injury deaths were properly wearing a helmets or would have been helped by a helmet (your head gets run over by a semi no helmet is going to save you).
How many of the 67,000 injuries to the head would have been prevented by helmets by people not wearing helmets? How have mandatory helmet laws for minors effected death/injury statistics?
How many people see the helmet campaign as a sign that bikes are dangerous and avoid the activity while blissfully ignorant that pedestrians or car passengers are more likely to be hurt/killed than cyclists? (thereby changing the statistics)

As an adult I have about a 1 in 318,750 chance (85,000,000/((800/2)*2/3)) of dying of a head injury on a bike. .Given all this inf: sometimes I wear a helmet, sometimes I don't. I found a statistic that most injuries happen in your own driveway (akin to the car "most accidents happen with in 5 miles of home) so I don't ride in my driveway ;) .

I think the best statistic I have run across is that if only female adults rode bikes virtually no one would die from bike accidents (~50 adult women die per year) :) .


Statistics be damned, I'll just go with personal experience. One friend had a car pull out in front of him and he went over the car. He was totally blind for over two years and the brain damage totally changed his personality. Very sad. A second friend was hit by a car and had a broken pelvis, some more minor injuries and a helmet that split in two. He had no brain damage, not even a concussion. The third case was me: I went straight over the handlebars and landed on the top of my helmet and rolled over. I didn't even get a headache. Statistics can prove whatever anyone wants, but I'll just continue to use common sense. And for those who insist on not wearing helmets, will you at least do me a favor? Please make sure you have good medical insurance so I don't have to support you in your vegitative state for the rest of your life through my tax dollars.

And I don't know what the pro helmet lobby is, but as someone who works in politics I would love to be lobbied by them. I could really use some free bike gear. :)

[Pat]

Whats also missing is how many of those head injuries were without helmets not a very good study also you odo wonders with numbers but they don't really mean anything.


I agree here but the people who keep the statistics have no idea of what kind of world cyclists exist in.

For example, almost 50% of the 800 or so annual fatalities occur at night. Now I frequently ride predawn. I often see cyclists out there sans lighting systems or even reflectors :eek: . I suspect that virtually all of the nighttime cyclist fatalities were people riding without active lighting systems. Also I suspect that of the total miles ridden by cyclists, a very small percentage of the mileage is ridden at night. So if you do not ride at night or if you use a lighting system, you are probably halving your risk right there.

As to the cyclist riding on a bike path at 7 mph with a helmet, his view of risk may well be different. Many people feel "safe" on paths because they believe cars are our only hazard. In my own personal experience, bike paths are far more hazardous then roads because the pedestrians, joggers, inline skaters, pram pushers, urchins, etc have no inkling at all of right of way and they will do dern near anything without warning. It is a bit like riding a bike in a supermarket. I was riding on a path and came over a little rise (which made for a "blind corner" if you will) and there was a lady lying stunned on the path beside her bike. She had crested the rise and hit a dog that hopped out of the bushes in front of her (the dog was not on a leash). She went over the bars and landed on her head and she did not have a helmet on because, I guess, she felt safe. In our local club, the only fatality that we have had that I can recall was one of our riders riding on a bike path presumably for a fast errand without a helmet. He fell and hit his head and that was it. Another of our members fell and broke his neck (broke a couple of cervical vertibrae) forunately he is recovering well. When I ride on bike paths, I usually ride fairly slowly and assume that the various users of the path are out to inadvertantly kill me.

As for helmets, the safety benefits are probably a bit over blown. Sure most cycling fatalities involve serious head injuries. But I suspect that a fair percentage of those people would have died from all the other injuries they sustained. However, I did do an endo into pavement at 26 mph once and it shattered my helmet and I did not have so much as a bump on the head.

[ajay677]

all it takes to end your life with an impact to your head is a speed of 5 mph and impacting an object no larger then 2 square inches with only 6 inches of travel distance from your head to what ever you impact with it? Obviously not! The 5 mph speed is the speed at which your head is travelling at, it does not include the speed you are going on a bicycle.

It doesn't take much to inflict a fatal head injury. A guy I went to high school with fell off the back of a just starting off motorcycle, at a stop sign. He was the passenger. He struck the back of his head on the asphalt. Lights out.

[DnvrFox]

When I ride on bike paths, I usually ride fairly slowly and assume that the various users of the path are out to inadvertantly kill me.



When I ride on the street, I assume that the various drivers on the road are out to inadvertently kill me.

All the statistics show that

1. More accidents per unit to bicyclists occur on bike paths.

2. More FATAL and critical injuries to bicyclists occur by far on the streets and highways.

I researched this pretty carefully about a year or two ago. I don't have the stats available readily, but they are likely available with a search, unless I posted prior to all the posts being lost when we had the major computer break down and file loss some time back.

[erraticrider]

I recently saw a kid's helmet with a half inch round hole in it just above the ear. When the kid fell over, he broke his fall with his hands and shoulder, yet his head hit the pavement. The hole was caused by a half inch sized stone.

Point is when you fall and your head hits the pavement, you have no control over whether all of the remaining force will be spread out over four to five square inches or focused on a half-inch or inch-sized circle where there is a stone. Based on the way that stone cut right through the helmet, it would have done the same with the kid's skull probably causing bleeding on the brain.

[Portis]

I can't stand helmets, and so far, still don't use one. Even though I insist that my kids wear theirs for safety. Not just because it's a law. Ahhh, the dichotomy of parenting!

I am actually considering getting a helmet, but my squash is huge, and so far have not found a helmet that is even remotely comfortable. Any other Great Pumpkins out there that can recommend a helmet?

Another fine example of, "do as i say, not as I do." It is interesting the way people resist things that are good for them. A co-worker used to always ask the smokers as they huddled out in the cold if they would still go out their to do something healthy. Would they go out there to eat a carrot? :rolleyes:


What is the big deal about a helmet? I wear mine all of the time. It is especially helpul in bed when slamming against the headboard.

[abc]

I'm surprised you even noticed they were wearing a helmet, that's the sort of thing I would only notice if they WEREN'T wearing one.

Assuming that they never exceeded 7mph and never rode anywhere dangerous like on a road, I still think it would be stupid not to wear a helmet. You might not crack your head open from crashing at those speeds, but it's still quite likely you'll injure yourself.

I've only ever once ridden a bike without a helmet once and that was just a quick 15 second test ride down the street. The whole 15 seconds didn't feel right and I haven't been out without one since. It's not that I'm scared I'm going to crash while not wearing one, it just doesn't feel right. Sort of like driving down the street without a seatbelt on, it's extremely unlikely you'll crash but it just doesn't feel right anyway.

[Seanholio]

I like my brain. I rather like it the way it is now: slightly bent, humorous, and pretty good at getting me through my day.

To me, a helmet very much like insurance. I buy it because I prefer to keep my gambling limited to tables covered in green felt. I buy it because I prefer to limit my risks. If I can purchase a helmet which gives me protection, adequate ventilation, and is brightly colored, therefore hopefully increasing the chances of my being seen by the driver of an automobile, I don't mind spending the money.

I also wear one as an example to my son; were he to be injured further in an accident due to the lack of a helmet, I'd be devestated. Right now, he is young enough that if Daddy does it, he does it, because Daddy is still Cool. I'm going to be heartbroken when that changes.