Northeast - NYC Gypsy cabs. Anyone else ready for war?

Here's a new one... had a knife pulled on me on my ride home today. Sweet! :thumb:

While riding home on my commute from work today (up in Inwood), a gypsy cab pulled into the bike lane and cut me off. I say cut me off, but the driver actually swerved and ran into me with the side of his car. Luckily I was able to swerve, brake, and lower my shoulder so that I didn't get hurt. At the time of the incident, it was still light out and I had lots of lights and reflectors on my bike. The driver wasn't making a turn (not an intersection), and he wasn't picking up or dropping off any clients. For all I can tell, he did it just to **** with me.

Naturally I stopped, yelled, and smacked the side of his car, at which point he got out of the car brandishing a gravity knife and yelling threats at me. He got about five feet away from me, which was close enough for me to start thinking about how I was going to defend myself, but also too close for me to turn my back and immediately bolt. All I could do was slowly back away while telling him what a crazy **** he was. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to memorize his plate number while also keeping an eye on the insane ******* holding a knife at the same time. In the end, I was able to get far enough away to hop on my bike again and bounce.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit scared at the time, but mostly I was in survival mode. Now that I'm home and safe, I'm just PISSED beyond belief. I called the police and had two officers come out to take a report, but since I didn't have a plate number and there are hundreds upon hundreds of black Lincoln cabs around, they had very little hope of anything happening. This was an extreme incident of course, but it is just the last in a loooooooong list of times I've had problems with gypsy cab driver's. My commute isn't very long- only 12 minutes and about 40 blocks- and yet if I can get to work or back without one of these *******s cutting me off or passing me within a foot of my side, I consider it to be a rare and lucky ride. It's like screwing with bikers is their hobby or something.

So is anyone else having problems with gypsy cab drivers on a regular basis? Anyone have any advice on how to handle this stuff? I'm definitely going to start carrying some pepper spray with me on my commutes. I'm not seeking conflict, but it would seem that (like today) conflict might come looking for me.

Next time, get the plates and don't escalate by smacking the car or yelling. It might be emotionally satisfying, but as you can plainly see, it gives the other person an excuse to take things to the next level.

It's pretty typical for cars of all sorts to ignore bike lanes, that's just life in the big city. Either look for a less congested route, or just exercise a little more caution. Unfortunately, the only real fix IMO is to get more cyclists on the road, as that will essentially force drivers to be more cognizant of the need to share the road.

I don't see how pepper spray will help much, by the way. I've lived in the NYC area for a long time, and in some nasty neighborhoods in other cities, and have always gotten along just fine without a weapon.

Next time, get the plates and don't escalate by smacking the car or yelling. It might be emotionally satisfying, but as you can plainly see, it gives the other person an excuse to take things to the next level.

You must be a Buddhist? Who else could remain so calm after being side-swiped by a car and then have the tranquility of mind to remember an 8 digit number while a knife is pointed at you. I'm not sure if you meant to sound preachy, or maybe I'm just a bit high strung right now from having my life threatened, but your post is not helpful in any way.

Gee, you asked for suggestions, and then started throwing rocks ------------------

Put yourself in my shoes for a second. How'd you like to have this happen to you and then have someone imply that it's somehow your fault.

I posted this because I wanted to get a little support from the biking community who would understand the trials of commuting in a big city- not to give people an excuse to get on their soap box. I don't mind constructive criticism, but Bacci's comments show no empathy at all. No, I didn't handle the situation perfectly, but how do you react when you get side-swiped while in a marked bike lane for no apparent reason what so ever? You don't know til you've been there.

They are the worst, I generally have more problems with them than any other drivers on the road. They will jump right in front of you and stop or turn right in front of you and yes I've also banged the **** out of the side of their car, they could care less if you run right into them. Pepper spray isn't really a weapon, it's not like carrying a knife or a gun, it would just be to stun them, wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to bring along with you.
They get their license through NYC right? I talked to a lawyer once about this, if you get hurt even if you don't get their plate license you can still go after the city for it. I would think in turn they would take it harder on the cabs (in general) for starting trouble and making them lose money.

I've been there.

A guy driving a black limo did just what you said - though he was grabbing a parking spot. I panic stopped and it had just started raining, so the street was very slick. The bike literally flew out from under me and I landed on my hands and knees...big gouges of skin, lotsa blood.

I was furious, got up and basically rode in circles around him for about 5 mins screaming. He never got out. he must have known he was in the wrong.


Another time a limo guy ran a red light and hit me. Thank god, very slowly. He messed up my back wheel (brand new, naturally). But he was very nice, gave me his card, told me to give him the price of repair, which I did , and he paid immediately. So they're not all bad eggs.

Bottom line - no matter where you ride you must ride defensively. A car that weighs many thousands of pounds will always win. I have smacked cars (including yellow cabs) and seen others do it - it's natural to get angry. But this is definitely not the best reaction. And no motorist wants you touching their car, no matter what. I don't blame them for that. If you have ever paid for a vehicle you will understand.

There is a certain level of awful driving behavior you must realistically expect to encounter, on a bike or while walking, driving, etc. If you cannot accept this, for your own safety, you should honestly rethink riding in traffic. Meanwhile, I suggest you take some of your well-founded rage and justified anger and put that energy to good use by joining local activist organizations like TA or Times Up and volunteer to make your voice heard in constructive ways. More bike Lanes, stricter reinforcement of laws that protect cyclists and so forth are possible, but like anything else you must be proactive and go through appropriate channels. Simply rolling out your door and expecting proper etiquette from drivers and then reacting violently to isolated incidents will not accomplish much in the long run - with the possible exception, as we saw here, of getting us killed.:eek:

I'd personally much rather see you live and help make cycling more practical and enjoyable for us all.:)

I'm not saying it's your fault the guy nearly ran you over and pulled a knife. I am strictly saying that from a practical perspective, yelling and punching the car escalated the situation, and those actions significantly increased the odds of a violent result.

I would also say the odds of a driver intentionally lurching at a cyclist and stopping his vehicle are actually pretty small. There are a few thousand reasons for a car to stop without noticing the presence of a bike lane, a cyclist, a moving pedestrian, another car etc.

I have had things like this happen on occasion, and yes I maintain my cool as best I can. It's very easy to misinterpret intentions, to assume that cars see you when they should (and don't), and very hard to stay calm. But as a result, I don't wind up facing off with knife-wielding maniacs and wishing I had pepper spray.

I suggest you take some time to read Bob Mionske's article about cycling and road rage. (http://www.velonews.com/article/83093/legally-speaking-with-bob-mionske---more-rage) You may find it helpful in handling these kinds of situations.

So is anyone else having problems with gypsy cab drivers on a regular basis? Anyone have any advice on how to handle this stuff? I'm definitely going to start carrying some pepper spray with me on my commutes. I'm not seeking conflict, but it would seem that (like today) conflict might come looking for me.

This part of your post certainly looked like you were "open" to suggestions and advice! It even seemed like you were asking for it!

If you were just looking for someone to hold your hand and whisper just what you wanted to hear - you probably should have left this out.

I think the advice you were given was valid for consideration - not just to be blown off with prejudice.....the advisor was being nice, while you attacked him/her.

The OP was reacting off of the natural instinct to protect himself (and his bike) when he was clearly "attacked" by the cab. You can't fault him for that. He wasn't out biking looking for trouble. Trouble came looking for him, unfortunately.

As far as "escalating"? Sure, he could have handled it a little better but the crazy cab driver might have still pulled a knife on him even if the cyclist was cool about the whole incident. (I've seen this happen!)

I was nearly run down by a yellow cab driver this past Friday. He tried to side swipe me but he was coming up from my rear! He saw me. He just didn't give a hoot. He nearly ran over my left leg and ankle but I was quick, hopped off my bike to the right all the while yelling "HEY! HEY! HEY!!!!" and dragging my bike with me so he didn't run it over too. I wanted to slap some sense into him but he sped off too quickly. :mad:

I'm thinking about saving my pennies to buy a helmet or bike mounted camera. I'll just run it every time I'm on the road so if something like this happens again, I've got everything on tape and can just hand it over to the cops.

Oh, and is pepper spray legal to carry and use in NYC? (I'd love to get some and mount it to my handlebars.)

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/24/cycling-news-photographer-catches-drivers-in-the-act/#comments

And no. Pepper Spray is NOT legal in NYC.

The OP was reacting off of the natural instinct to protect himself (and his bike) when he was clearly "attacked" by the cab. You can't fault him for that.
Re-read my posts. I am not "faulting" him. I am pointing out that, as a purely practical matter, that kind of behavior significantly increases the chance of a violent confrontation and is therefore highly unsafe and counterproductive.

I might add that violently confronting someone is highly unlikely to change their behavior. Even if the driver was 100% in the wrong, it puts their back up and builds resentment and hostility towards other cyclists.



As far as "escalating"? Sure, he could have handled it a little better but the crazy cab driver might have still pulled a knife on him even if the cyclist was cool about the whole incident.
Maybe, but such speculation is at best a Rorschach test. There's no way to know what the driver would have done if the OP rode off and called the cops later.

Along the same lines, you really don't know what the driver did or didn't see, can or can't see, or what his/her intentions were. You can guess, but in many cases you're going to be biased by the raw and unpleasant fact that you were very nearly injured by the event. In some cases the driver might be at fault anyway (e.g talking on a cell phone), but the reality is that many drivers just don't notice cyclists at all. (It seems rather unlikely a driver will hear you yelling though, especially if they have the radio on.)

And let's face it, if a driver wants to take you down, you're going down and there's almost nothing you can do about it. Another reason why it seem rather unlikely to me that drivers are merely oblivious, rather than intentionally trying to harm cyclists.

If you want to punish a driver for dangerous behavior, don't yell or smack the car; if possible, get the plates and call the cops. It's not easy, but it is simple.

Ok, after a day to mellow out, I would like to apologize to Bacci for reacting a bit strongly to your original post. Although I disagree with your assessment of the situation, I'm sure you didn't mean to come off as accusatory. Thanks for posting the link your the second post.

What I struggle with the most is wanting to be calm and to give (most) motorists the benefit of the doubt, but also feeling the need to stand up for myself (and bikers in general). Which causes more damage in the end- Letting things slide, and letting motorists feel like they can get away with screwing with bikers because we don't matter, or standing up for ourselves and fighting back? Just because I am on a bike, and it weighs less than a car, I don't think I should have to roll over and take it in the @ss eerytime some impatient slob wants to put my life at risk.

And for the record, pepper spray IS legal in NYC, but you must buy it from an authorized dealer and have it registered in your name- kind of like a gun. And also for the record, if I had some on me yesterday, the guy would be in jail right now- I guarantee it.

If you were just looking for someone to hold your hand and whisper just what you wanted to hear - you probably should have left this out.

Who's throwing rocks now Wanderer?

And no. Pepper Spray is NOT legal in NYC.

Actually, it is.

Actually, it is.

Do you know of any place in NYC that would legally sell it and with some sort of handlebar mount? Thanks in advance. :)

Actually, it is.

Oh apparently Pataki changed the law some time back. Of course just because you can buy it doesn't mean you can use it. I'd imagine you could wind up getting charged with assault.

Do you know of any place in NYC that would legally sell it and with some sort of handlebar mount? Thanks in advance. :)

I don't know about the handlebar mount, but it shouldn't be difficult to come up with something. I'd imagine the firearms shops that carry it will have some ideas--just google "firearms in nyc."

Actually, I'm not throwing rocks - just making an observation, based on what I read.

I'm all for pulling a .44 MAG, and blowing the scum away!!!!! At the very least, kill the car!

But, I tend to think the authorities would take a rather dim view.

I don't know about the handlebar mount, but it shouldn't be difficult to come up with something. I'd imagine the firearms shops that carry it will have some ideas--just google "firearms in nyc."

Apparently it's also now legal to ship bear spray to NYC.

http://www.amazon.com/Guard-Alaska™-Bear-Defense-Spray/dp/B0002ONGIC

p.s. based on the size of the can, Nashbar has a neat little clip to hold HALT ! cans on your bars. I have two. Only 99 cents, the next time you place an order. Holds tight, easy out, very handy.

I bought pepper spray from an army/navy store in the Bx a few months ago. I'm pretty sure it's legal. I bring it with me when I go to the gym in the mornings since it's still dark at 5am. Stun guns aren't legal. I checked. I'd rather carry a stun gun than pepper spray...

I'd rather carry a stun gun than pepper spray...

I vote for a Rottweiler in a Burley trailer.

...no motorist wants you touching their car, no matter what...

I will vouch for that. The only times I've been physically threatened by the driver - as in they got out of the car and came after me with their fists cocked - was when I touched their car. I've never hit a car hard enough to do damage, mostly slapping on windows or the hood just to make sure the *******s (it's almost always a male driver) know they almost KILLED me by not paying attention.

Regardless of why and how you touch their car, drivers will go ape**** crazy on you.

Most of the time they have threatened to run me over...again. :rolleyes: I tell them to go ahead and do it because then I could sue, take their money, take their car, and have their drivers license taken away and send them to JAIL. I then yell their license plate numbers very loudly. At that point I usually take out my cell phone telling them I would be calling 911 at that very moment.

By doing that, every offender I've encountered has returned to their SUVs (almost always an SUV) and cursed me out while speeding away. I like to read their license plate out loud again as they leave.

Anyway I've been lucky none of the drivers have come after me with a knife or gun. I also don't usually mind the confrontation, but if you want to avoid the risk, do NOT touch the offending driver's car. Regardless of fault, they WILL go into a blind rage **** fit and threaten your life. :rolleyes:

they used to sell novelty plates that said,
You toucha my car, I breaka your face.
I never understood why touching a car would lead to a beat down. I mean the car is in the elements
and a pothole would ruin a car more than a palm slap.

I never understood why touching a car would lead to a beat down.

Can't speak for all, but my neighborhood is filled with punk, machismo, thug wannabe, Dominicans. That pretty much explains it right there. Of course, very few of them would ever have the huevos to start a fair fight. They need crutches like weapons or four of their friends for back-up to ever start stuff.

I'd rather carry a stun gun than pepper spray...

Just out of curiosity, why? Personally, I'd rather have the 6-8 ft buffer zone and just spray the jerk.

But then, where will you put the kids?

:)


I vote for a Rottweiler in a Burley trailer.

is a helmet camera an option for you? either that or carry a bigger knife :)

But then, where will you put the kids?

Good point. Kids in trailer, Rottweiler on Trail-A-Bike.

they used to sell novelty plates that said,
You toucha my car, I breaka your face.
I never understood why touching a car would lead to a beat down. I mean the car is in the elements
and a pothole would ruin a car more than a palm slap.

There is a weird pride of ownership that goes with a car for many people. Possibly because of the cost.

I recall reading something by a messenger once that said they were at a red light and leaned on a car, right by the driver's open window. The driver slapped their hand away - like "get off my car". The messenger got off their bike and punched the man in the face through the open window, breaking his glasses.

In most cases I'm on the cyclist's side. Not here. The cyclist was treating the car as if it were a building or a light pole. Some one paid for the car, maybe just waxed it. I have owned cars and never cared all that much about how shiny they were but I still didn't want someone else messing it up for me. I also wasn't crazy about someone hanging around the car in traffic like that when they could get seriously hurt.

Nothing would please me more than seeing every motorist in the world trading some cager time for two wheels, but since cars aren't going to be gone during our lifetime, we need to learn to get along. That means a lot of concessions that need to be made on the car set's part, but we need to be mindful of their perspective as well, if we expect to get any respect.

What I don't understand is why anyone thinks its OK to touch somebody else's car. It's no different from somebody coming up and grabbing your bike, or your clothes, or your hat.

It's not yours. Keep your hands off it. Why is this hard to understand?

What I don't understand is why anyone thinks its OK to touch somebody else's car. It's no different from somebody coming up and grabbing your bike, or your clothes, or your hat.

It's not yours. Keep your hands off it. Why is this hard to understand?

Precisely.

There is a whole culture of cars and motorcycles which many of us cyclists may laugh at (the bumper stickers mentioned above, the joke about the Harley dude who has an accident and checks the bike before seeing if his gf who was on the back is okay first, etc etc). But that is irrelevant.

Give respect, get respect - it's as simple as that.

The OP of course, has several valid points about getting angry in his situation. But realistically - we're never gonna wipe out road rage, the automobile or maniacal knife wielding drivers. Let's focus on staying alive and campaigning for better conditions.

There are more bike lanes and signs and so forth now than there were 10 years ago in the city. idk about anyone else but I feel a lot safer now than I used to, primarily because, between the increased lanes, media attention and number of riders out on the roads, cars simply expect to see us out there now more than they ever have before. It's a beautiful thing!:thumb:

Yeah.

Just to clarify, before I get accused of hypocrisy: I'll whack a fender if I want to get a reckless driver's attention. But it's precisely the violation of their space that does get their attention, and I'll only do it in response to a dangerous violation of my own space.

You just don't sit on, lean on, caress, fondle, or lick someone else's car. It's bad form, rude behavior, and if you do it, you're the jerk in this story.

Yeah.

Just to clarify, before I get accused of hypocrisy: I'll whack a fender if I want to get a reckless driver's attention. But it's precisely the violation of their space that does get their attention, and I'll only do it in response to a dangerous violation of my own space.

You just don't sit on, lean on, caress, fondle, or lick someone else's car. It's bad form, rude behavior, and if you do it, you're the jerk in this story.

100% agreed.

I find it ironic that, after saving them the trouble of dents and splattered blood and guts all over their cars due to my quick reflexes, offending drivers threaten to do it anyway after I slap their fender to get them off their cell phones to pay attention to the road.

Because, you know, that slap on the fender totally messes up their cars while running over people does not! :thumb:

I'll admit I've slapped and knocked occasionally. Also used my hand to balance whilst squeezing through a tight spot - sorta like dabbing wth a foot.....when angered enough, I've also pursued with intent to kill - good thing I am so slow:o

Gypsy cab drivers are some of the biggest d-bags on the road in this city. They WILL take you out and keep going without so much as a second thought - I've nearly been hit by them many, many times on my way down to the Greenway. Inwood is the mother lode for car services so I always make sure I have a thousand eyes when I'm in the vicinity of Seaman Ave and Dyckman St.

I will agree that car service folks are horrible drivers and rather aggressive. Yellow cabs and cyclists seem to have a certain rapport but these guys are generally just a-holes. I stay far, far away from them.

that's probably because of the machismo car ownership mentality.
many black car driver own their car. Cabbies probably lease their cab.
but whatever, pigeon poop would do more damage to a car's finish.

that's probably because of the machismo car ownership mentality.
many black car driver own their car. Cabbies probably lease their cab.
but whatever, pigeon poop would do more damage to a car's finish.

Right, unlike the macho bike ownership mentality that says you should be able to do anything you want to someone else's car.

Excellent point. I think I'm just afraid the pepper spray wouldn't work and they'd still be chasing me like HAHA!! I eat pepper for breakfast!!! I'm thinking even if I have to get up close with a stun gun, at least I'll know he's down for the count! And clearly I've thought about this WAY too much.

Right, unlike the macho bike ownership mentality that says you should be able to do anything you want to someone else's car.

I don't wan't to get into a pissing match.
because it will be fruitless to go back and forth.
is it wrong for me to be less materialistic? it's just stuff, and that's all it is.
however, what's this macho bike ownership mentality? I mean this is a sport that wears lycra.
lycra, a fabric used to make bras.

however, what's this macho bike ownership mentality? I mean this is a sport that wears lycra.
lycra, a fabric used to make bras.

Not me. All my biking gear is made from burlap, leather, and broken glass.

I love my bike, but in the long run I couldn't give a **** if it gets scratched, dinged up, or otherwise molested. It's when my own body is put in danger that I get pissed and react.

is it wrong for me to be less materialistic? it's just stuff, and that's all it is.

It's easy to be less materialistic when you're talking about other people's material.

What part of "It's not yours" is hard to understand?

It's easy to be less materialistic when you're talking about other people's material.

What part of "It's not yours" is hard to understand?

I don't care about yours why should you care about mine's?
it's just a material object and that's the thing. it's just a thing
sorry you feel the way you do.

I don't care about yours why should you care about mine's?
it's just a material object and that's the thing. it's just a thing
sorry you feel the way you do.

No you're not. You feel enlightened in your self-centeredness and conveniently claim that people who understand and respect the difference between yours and mine are materialistic. In fact, those people are considerate. Another word for them might be grownups.

In consideration of your material rights, I won't steal your bike or burn your books. Sound good?

No you're not. You feel enlightened in your self-centeredness and conveniently claim that people who understand and respect the difference between yours and mine are materialistic. In fact, those people are considerate. Another word for them might be grownups.

In consideration of your material rights, I won't steal your bike or burn your books. Sound good?

I'm hardly enlightened, privileged, entitled. and I do respect property but I don't understand
the underlying violence that may accompany it. especially in the car culture.
is that wrong of me? am I stupid or dense? maybe not grown up?
why would you steal my bike or burn my books? It's not like I would do same to yours?

What I struggle with the most is wanting to be calm and to give (most) motorists the benefit of the doubt, but also feeling the need to stand up for myself (and bikers in general). Which causes more damage in the end- Letting things slide, and letting motorists feel like they can get away with screwing with bikers because we don't matter, or standing up for ourselves and fighting back? Just because I am on a bike, and it weighs less than a car, I don't think I should have to roll over and take it in the @ss eerytime some impatient slob wants to put my life at risk.

On-the-spot education (i.e., "confrontation") never works when the other party doesn't want to listen. They've already shown that they don't care about your well-being. What they do care about is keeping their job, and if you can get rid of their license to work, you'll win. You can't do that with pepper spray or a crowbar, but you can (theoretically, anyway) do that by reporting them.

I remember when I wanted to beat up a PITA kid who lived by my grandma's house. He said a phrase that I had never heard before: "My parents will sue you!" Suddenly, breaking his face didn't seem worth it.

lycra, a fabric used to make bras.

Umm, I prefer my bras made of lace. Thank you. :)

And I'm still looking for a place in NYC that legally sells pepper spray with a handlebar mount...

why would you steal my bike or burn my books? It's not like I would do same to yours?

Then why would you feel free to tell me what you can do with my car?