Living Car Free - 2007 auto avg. expense

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/914/great-cars-for-about-200-a-month

This article states that in 2007 a car took an avg. of $8220. to maintain and drive. Breaking that down to getting paid $20. an hour on your job it would of taken 411 hours of work or over 10 weeks to pay the expense. That doesn't even take taxes into the equation. Just think if you only made $10. an hour.

It just makes me wonder if people think before they commit to money matters.

Thanks for the data, I know some of us have been looking for that for a while!

$8220 is a bit steep for annual vehicle expenses, at least at our househould. Even half of that number would be a stretch for the one family member with the highest vehicle expense; loan payment, insurance, and fuel costs included.

$8220 is a bit steep for annual vehicle expenses, at least at our househould. Even half of that number would be a stretch for the one family member with the highest vehicle expense; loan payment, insurance, and fuel costs included.

What about depreciation?

Yea, I've spent less than that in 5 years, I don't now where they get their numbers (at work so I can't see any yahoo links, too much spyware).

Yea, I've spent less than that in 5 years, I don't now where they get their numbers (at work so I can't see any yahoo links, too much spyware).

Don't wory, Yahoo doesn't link to the source document of this "average expense" data. But who needs any source when the "numbers" meet the agenda? Just throw the stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

What about depreciation?

What about it? Unless you want to double up the cost (to make a misleading point) by including both monthly payments/lease costs AND depreciation.

I heard a blurb on the local news yesterday about annual AAA numbers. They said about $0.54 per mile factoring in all the normal stuff. Of course this is an average. Got me wondering about what it costs me per mile to ride my bike. Currently it's more that $0.54, but the longer I own/ride current bike the more that number will fall.

~

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/914/great-cars-for-about-200-a-month

This article states that in 2007 a car took an avg. of $8220. to maintain and drive. Breaking that down to getting paid $20. an hour on your job it would of taken 411 hours of work or over 10 weeks to pay the expense. That doesn't even take taxes into the equation. Just think if you only made $10. an hour.

It just makes me wonder if people think before they commit to money matters.

Another way to look at is that the 411 hours you're working for your car is about one-fifth of a full-time worker's hours on the job. In other words, you're working for your car one day a week!

My choice has been to work only four days a week, and still have the same standard of living (other than the car) that my colleagues enjoy. Works for me!

Don't wory, Yahoo doesn't link to the source document of this "average expense" data. But who needs any source when the "numbers" meet the agenda? Just throw the stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

These numbers are pretty close to the numbers given out by AAA - not an organization that I would consider to have an anti-car bias. You can look at them yourself: http://www.aaanewsroom.net/Assets/Files/200844921220.DrivingCosts2008.pdf

Assuming 15,000 miles a year: $6,320 for a small sedan, $9,769 for a large, $8,121 on average. $10,448 for a four wheel drive SUV.

I heard a blurb on the local news yesterday about annual AAA numbers. They said about $0.54 per mile factoring in all the normal stuff. Of course this is an average. Got me wondering about what it costs me per mile to ride my bike. Currently it's more that $0.54, but the longer I own/ride current bike the more that number will fall.
~

54 cents is the figure for a sedan. for somebody who drives 12,000 miles a year, this works out to $6,480 per year--a little less than the Yahoo estimate.

Don't wory, Yahoo doesn't link to the source document of this "average expense" data. But who needs any source when the "numbers" meet the agenda? Just throw the stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

As usual, you can't be bothered to supply any figures that are more reliable. Put up or shut up, ILTB.

I heard a blurb on the local news yesterday about annual AAA numbers. They said about $0.54 per mile factoring in all the normal stuff. Of course this is an average. Got me wondering about what it costs me per mile to ride my bike. Currently it's more that $0.54, but the longer I own/ride current bike the more that number will fall.

Cycling may in fact be more expensive per mile, but if you look at the total cost of ownership it's significantly lower - the average car free cyclist probably doesn't rack up 15,000 miles a year on their bike. Per mile is kind of an odd unit of measurement because you still have to own the car regardless of whether you drive 10 miles or 10,000. Of course the less you drive the lower your fuel and maintenance costs will be, but your fixed costs via car payment, insurance, registration, etc do not decrease.

Cycling may in fact be more expensive per mile, but if you look at the total cost of ownership it's significantly lower - the average car free cyclist probably doesn't rack up 15,000 miles a year on their bike. Per mile is kind of an odd unit of measurement because you still have to own the car regardless of whether you drive 10 miles or 10,000. Of course the less you drive the lower your fuel and maintenance costs will be, but your fixed costs via car payment, insurance, registration, etc do not decrease.

At times bike ownership can get a little pricey. But I ride $200 used bikes that usually don't require more than about $100 a year for maintenence. Parts like tires, lube, brake pads and tubes might run a couple hundred dollars. The extra food I eat to fuel the engine is probably another couple hundred. So let's say at most $700 a year. YMMV.

I think the biggest variable in car costs is the number of people being transported. If you almost always have four or five passengers, cars are probably the cheapest way to go. But this multiple occupancy situation situation is rare in most countries. Typically there are only one or two people per car, so it's a pretty expensive way to travel.

As usual, you can't be bothered to supply any figures that are more reliable. Put up or shut up, ILTB.
Put up what? The price of apples vice the cost of growing oranges? Car free zealots whining about the burden of of car ownership costs in comparison to their bicycling expense is just such an exercise in irrational thought.
Shifting the burden of proof might seem like a logical response for the statistically challenged ideologue who will grasp at any number or average tossed out, no matter what its source or validity, that meets the requirement to justify a course of action.

What about depreciation?

not a cost of ownership. You are counting that twice if you count the payment and depreciaiton. Look at it this way, you buy the car for $10,000 and park it. It depreciates $2,000 even though you don't touch it....simply cause its last years model now. Are you out another $2000? No...you are out your 10,000 cash and if you sold it, you would recoup $8,000. If the depreciation was actually a cost it would be $12,000 cost and recoup $8,000

If you want some #'s.
From 2/25/2005 to today:
Maintenance $1654.70. Thats 10 oil/filter changes changes, 5 tires, one wheel to make the spare match the rest, and one wheel bearing.
Fuel Record:
Total Miles 63,822
Total Gallons 3836.84
Avg. MPG 16.634
Total Cost $9,718.27
Total Hours 1,732
Gallons / Hour 2.22
Avg. MPH 36.847
Cost / Mile $0.15


add in registration once a year at around $89 * 4 years, I'm up to about 11k. for 4 years. This is higher than average though since its a full size 4x4 truck and since we moved in July we never go more than a couple miles from home unless its recreational use as everything we need is here but those .5 drives to work kill the gas mileage, my highest mpg is 21. So take your average sedan wher it gets 30mpg and averages say 20somehting you should be able to cut those costs by a third, then remember that car tires can be had much cheaper too, I bought truck rated 8 ply off road tires because I was tired of fixing flats on the farm.

I also added $934 in accessories from a truck cap to second battery and isolator as I'm setup like an RV for long days at the parks or camping on the farm.

At times bike ownership can get a little pricey. But I ride $200 used bikes that usually don't require more than about $100 a year for maintenence. Parts like tires, lube, brake pads and tubes might run a couple hundred dollars. The extra food I eat to fuel the engine is probably another couple hundred. So let's say at most $700 a year. YMMV.

I think the biggest variable in car costs is the number of people being transported. If you almost always have four or five passengers, cars are probably the cheapest way to go. But this multiple occupancy situation situation is rare in most countries. Typically there are only one or two people per car, so it's a pretty expensive way to travel.
I don't recall anyone ever saying they thought their transportation costs increased when they went car free. My transportation costs would have to increase dramatically to compensate for the fun and health and extra time benefits of car free living. How about it car-free people who mad the switch from car culture to car free? Are any of you willing to assert that your transportation costs have increased so much that you want to go back to car culture? Lets hear how it happened. Several people have posted that they thought they had more money in the bank after ditching a car.

thanks for the data, i know some of us have been looking for that for a while!

+1

Car free zealots whining about the burden of of car ownership costs in comparison to their bicycling expense is just such an exercise in irrational thought.


It isn't whining. It's gloating.

But I don't know what to call it when people like you seem to claim that it's cheaper to drive than ride a bike. "Tomfoolery" comes to mind.

IRS (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#en_US_publink100033935) says the deduction for cars is 58.5 cents per mile. This is remarkably close to the Yahoo figure, which is remarkably close to the AAA figure.

I suppose the obfuscators like ILTB will claim that the IRS and AAA are whiney bike culture advocates who are distorting the truth in order to make their ideological point. :rolleyes:

IRS (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#en_US_publink100033935) says the deduction for cars is 58.5 cents per mile. This is remarkably close to the Yahoo figure, which is remarkably close to the AAA figure.

I suppose the obfuscators like ILTB will claim that the IRS and AAA are whiney bike culture advocates who are distorting the truth in order to make their ideological point. :rolleyes:

Yay! My data for when I drove all the time was 59 cents a mile! I'm above average!

Seriously, though I'm not sure why anybody even responds to ILTB most of the time.

I don't recall anyone ever saying they thought their transportation costs increased when they went car free. My transportation costs would have to increase dramatically to compensate for the fun and health and extra time benefits of car free living. How about it car-free people who mad the switch from car culture to car free? Are any of you willing to assert that your transportation costs have increased so much that you want to go back to car culture? Lets hear how it happened. Several people have posted that they thought they had more money in the bank after ditching a car.

For me, it's quite simple. Our family has one car in the driveway nowadays. Prior to 2005 we kept 2, one of which I used for my personal transportation. The way we afforded to do this was to pay off one car, then buy another and pay it off. We always had a car payment.

Nowadays, I am car payment free. My last payment was $299 a month. Nowadays it's $0. My current wheels -- all two of them -- cost me $60 and I put another $60 into parts. I figure I won't put another $60 into it for a few more months.

So $60 every 3 months vs. $299 a month. All this ignoring gas, insurance, repairs....

Just who says their carfree transportation costs increased??

ILTB is actually just Roody and he likes to argue with himself in his free time!

Even at the top end numbers quoted here, operating a car would cost me about 306 hours of labor per year. But it'd save me more time than that compared to public transportation or cycling to work.

My own true reality is I probably only work about 50 hours to pay for my car costs each year because I drive a 40 year old car I maintain myself... But let's just say I had a brand new car and it was taking me 300 hours a year to pay for the car. Well, cycling to work would take me at least two hours round trip daily. Driving takes 30min round trip. So driving saves me 1.5 hours of time a day, or about 350 hours a year. Conclusion: it'd still be totally worth it to me to drive rather than bike because my time is valuable to me.

Yes, I spend some of that time riding my bike anyway, but I am now free to do so on whatever road or trail I want and not the boring, dangerous roads I'd be cycling on if I rode to work.

Here are some personal numbers. When I started grad school, my parents gave me a car to use, which I did until February, when it finally became unusable. They helped me buy a new car, and I've kept track of every dollar spent on it since then. It's pretty fun.

The car cost just shy of $2000 after taxes and registration. Since February, I've driven ~910 miles. I've filled the tank 5 times, 10 gallons each time, for a total of 50 gallons. I'm getting close to another top-up. That's roughly 18mpg, which is much nicer than the 10mpg the old car got. The total cost of gas has been $98. The total cost of the car, not counting insurance, is about $2066. Per mile, that comes down to $2.27. It will continue to decrease as I drive, of course.

In comparison, I bought one of my bikes (this one (http://www.target.com/Forge-1000-Road-Racing-Bike/dp/B000LWFG9C)) for about $395 in October. I also spent about $60 or so getting it tuned at the local store, but I'll leave that price off for the moment. Since then, I've put 332 miles on it. Per mile, that comes down to $1.19/mile. This doesn't include accessories like helmets, lights, and other paraphenelia. The number, like that of the car, will inevitably drop as I continue to ride. I'm looking forward to breaking the $1/mile barrier soon. The other bicycle I have cost $560 new in August, and I've got about 530 miles on it, so that's $1.06/mile before accessories and tuneups, but I haven't ridden it in months since I prefer the Forge, due to its drop bars and reduced weight.

What does this all prove? Well, for me, the bicycles are cheaper per mile than the car, but I could fulfill my responsibilities without them. I can't say that for the car. The numbers quoted in the original post clearly don't apply to drivers like me. If you can live with a used car and don't have to drive too far, too often, owning a car isn't necessarily a hyperexpensive affair. When I'm finally fully financially independent from my parents, I'll look for a more fuel-efficient car, but it will still be a used one. I've crunched the numbers with several cars I've seen on Craigslist and at used car merchants since buying my current car, and thousands of miles later, mine still comes out cheaper despite having the much lower mpg, due to having a much lower initial cost of purchase. From my calculations, I'm convinced this is the most important factor in the long-term cost of a vehicle.

Even at the top end numbers quoted here, operating a car would cost me about 306 hours of labor per year. But it'd save me more time than that compared to public transportation or cycling to work.

My own true reality is I probably only work about 50 hours to pay for my car costs each year because I drive a 40 year old car I maintain myself... But let's just say I had a brand new car and it was taking me 300 hours a year to pay for the car. Well, cycling to work would take me at least two hours round trip daily. Driving takes 30min round trip. So driving saves me 1.5 hours of time a day, or about 350 hours a year. Conclusion: it'd still be totally worth it to me to drive rather than bike because my time is valuable to me.

Yes, I spend some of that time riding my bike anyway, but I am now free to do so on whatever road or trail I want and not the boring, dangerous roads I'd be cycling on if I rode to work.

Yes but then after you drive home you would have to exercise for 2 hours to make the equation equal. How about the mental benefits of riding a bike vs driving. As I understand it driving a car has been shown to be stressful on the human mind while cycling is relaxing. Im just saying that the two hours on the bike are not "wasted" time. Hell do what ILTB does a listen to an audio book while you ride. Ditto goes for mass transit. If I drive to work and it take 30 mins instead of the 1 hour bus ride well then did I save an hour? No, because on the bus I can read, or pull out the laptop and get some work done, ect.

Here are some personal numbers. When I started grad school, my parents gave me a car to use, which I did until February, when it finally became unusable. They helped me buy a new car, and I've kept track of every dollar spent on it since then. It's pretty fun.

The car cost just shy of $2000 after taxes and registration. Since February, I've driven ~910 miles. I've filled the tank 5 times, 10 gallons each time, for a total of 50 gallons. I'm getting close to another top-up. That's roughly 18mpg, which is much nicer than the 10mpg the old car got. The total cost of gas has been $98. The total cost of the car, not counting insurance, is about $2066. Per mile, that comes down to $2.27. It will continue to decrease as I drive, of course.

In comparison, I bought one of my bikes (this one (http://www.target.com/Forge-1000-Road-Racing-Bike/dp/B000LWFG9C)) for about $395 in October. I also spent about $60 or so getting it tuned at the local store, but I'll leave that price off for the moment. Since then, I've put 332 miles on it. Per mile, that comes down to $1.19/mile. This doesn't include accessories like helmets, lights, and other paraphenelia. The number, like that of the car, will inevitably drop as I continue to ride. I'm looking forward to breaking the $1/mile barrier soon. The other bicycle I have cost $560 new in August, and I've got about 530 miles on it, so that's $1.06/mile before accessories and tuneups, but I haven't ridden it in months since I prefer the Forge, due to its drop bars and reduced weight.

What does this all prove? Well, for me, the bicycles are cheaper per mile than the car, but I could fulfill my responsibilities without them. I can't say that for the car. The numbers quoted in the original post clearly don't apply to drivers like me. If you can live with a used car and don't have to drive too far, too often, owning a car isn't necessarily a hyperexpensive affair. When I'm finally fully financially independent from my parents, I'll look for a more fuel-efficient car, but it will still be a used one. I've crunched the numbers with several cars I've seen on Craigslist and at used car merchants since buying my current car, and thousands of miles later, mine still comes out cheaper despite having the much lower mpg, due to having a much lower initial cost of purchase. From my calculations, I'm convinced this is the most important factor in the long-term cost of a vehicle.

These are all great points but I am not sure if the number for the old $2,000 car will continue to "decrease." As the car ages it will need more and more repairs. Yes as you drive it more and time goes on then you recoup the loss of the $2,000 investment to buy the car but one or two good size repairs like shocks, tires, brakes, head gasket, ect infinity, can easily add up to $2,000 or more. The bike will need repairs but are easier to do yourself and much cheaper.

These are all great points but I am not sure if the number for the old $2,000 car will continue to "decrease." As the car ages it will need more and more repairs. Yes as you drive it more and time goes on then you recoup the loss of the $2,000 investment to buy the car but one or two good size repairs like shocks, tires, brakes, head gasket, ect infinity, can easily add up to $2,000 or more. The bike will need repairs but are easier to do yourself and much cheaper.

That's a good point. It's true that eventual repairs may exceed the purchase price of the car itself. In such a case, I would be more inclined to buy another $2000 car rather than repair the current one. But barring such repairs, I don't think it will be too long before I break $1/mile with the car (perhaps by the fall). I'm closing in on 1000 miles and haven't had much trouble yet. It does steer a bit to the right, but I can manage that for now.

you also forget about the opportunity costs of driving to and from work. if you drive 1 hour each way thats 20hrs a week wasted. I realize biking will probably take a similar amount of time but for me it was fun so there is no real opportunity cost.

^ For me, both driving and cycling can be fun. Neither is a waste of time; that typically has more to do with where I'm going than how I get there.

I've been caught-up in the expensive bicycle mentality for a while. Two of my previous recumbents cost more than $2.00 per mile. This happened because I had to buy them without a test ride. I ended up selling them and the price per mile was high.

My last two bicycles were much cheaper because one is a comfort bicycle and the other is more conventional. Unfortunately I've learned that the newest one puts my back into a position that makes my arms and hands numb over time. This is worse than most people experience because of an upper back injury caused by a car wreck a long time ago. I'll need to stick to comfort bicycles and recumbent styles from now on.

When I sell my Dahon Smooth Hound it too will have cost me nearly $1.50 per mile. I'll miss the fast acceleration and overall coolness of the bicycle. The two recumbents that interest me cost plenty of money. Again there are no dealers anywhere nearby. I'll have to order one without a test ride. I just hope whichever one is ordered that it fits properly and is as good as the hyperbole associated with it.

Bicycle tires cost way more per mile (or miles per dollar) than car tires.

I've crunched the numbers with several cars I've seen on Craigslist and at used car merchants since buying my current car, and thousands of miles later, mine still comes out cheaper despite having the much lower mpg, due to having a much lower initial cost of purchase. From my calculations, I'm convinced this is the most important factor in the long-term cost of a vehicle.

Depends quite a bit on what you consider to be 'long-term.' I bought my current car new in '87 and it now has about 250,000 miles. Insurance to date has cost about as much as the initial purchase price and gasoline has cost twice as much despite being reasonably fuel efficient (33 mpg overall ave. to date). Maintenance has only been about a third of the purchase price. Overall cost has been about 14 cents/mile or $1600/yr.

My bikes haven't been all that much better. Tires and other maintenance items (chains, cassettes, etc.) dominate the long-term costs and amount to about 4 cents/mile. But fuel is the largest cost as I estimate it at about 6 cents/mile based on average grocery costs of about $2/1000 kcal - YMMV. So I get a total of about $.10/mile for bicycling vs. $.14/mile for driving.

I've been caught-up in the expensive bicycle mentality for a while. Two of my previous recumbents cost more than $2.00 per mile. This happened because I had to buy them without a test ride. I ended up selling them and the price per mile was high.

My last two bicycles were much cheaper because one is a comfort bicycle and the other is more conventional. Unfortunately I've learned that the newest one puts my back into a position that makes my arms and hands numb over time. This is worse than most people experience because of an upper back injury caused by a car wreck a long time ago. I'll need to stick to comfort bicycles and recumbent styles from now on.

When I sell my Dahon Smooth Hound it too will have cost me nearly $1.50 per mile. I'll miss the fast acceleration and overall coolness of the bicycle. The two recumbents that interest me cost plenty of money. Again there are no dealers anywhere nearby. I'll have to order one without a test ride. I just hope whichever one is ordered that it fits properly and is as good as the hyperbole associated with it.

Bicycle tires cost way more per mile than car tires per mile.

Not enough to make a huge difference to my wallet, my winter commuter averages 1500 miles on the rear tire and 3000 miles on the front. At $35 dollars a tire, that equates to 3.5 cents a mile for the bike, my SUV gets 30000 miles on a set of tires, and at $400 a set, that equates to 1.3 cents a mile for the SUV. Since my SUV uses 18 cents a mile of fuel, and my that negates the savings on tires by a large margin.

Depends quite a bit on what you consider to be 'long-term.' I bought my current car new in '87 and it now has about 250,000 miles. Insurance to date has cost about as much as the initial purchase price and gasoline has cost twice as much despite being reasonably fuel efficient (33 mpg overall ave. to date). Maintenance has only been about a third of the purchase price. Overall cost has been about 14 cents/mile or $1600/yr.

Either my numbers are off, or yours are. If your car cost X, insurance also cost X, gasoline cost 2X, and maintenance cost X/3 for a total of 35,000 (250000*.14), that comes out to a "new car cost" of 8077 when solving for X. Did your car originally cost $8077 brand new in 1987?

I agree that if you drive a car long enough before it needs full-scale servicing, fuel will top your expenses, but in the average length of ownership is 6 years, not 22. For virtually everyone else, the cost of the car when purchased will be the most expensive part of owning the car. Minimize that, and you come out ahead of...virtually everyone else.

Did your car originally cost $8077 brand new in 1987?

I agree that if you drive a car long enough before it needs full-scale servicing, fuel will top your expenses, but in the average length of ownership is 6 years, not 22. For virtually everyone else, the cost of the car when purchased will be the most expensive part of owning the car. Minimize that, and you come out ahead of...virtually everyone else.

Yes, that's about right, although with tax and license it came to almost $9000. (Obviously my factors of twice, a third, etc. were approximate rather than exact.).

And yes, fuel costs are the largest contribution to my overall costs for both car and bicycle operation.

Yes, that's about right, although with tax and license it came to almost $9000. (Obviously my factors of twice, a third, etc. were approximate rather than exact.).

Interesting. Today, it's virtually impossible to find a brand new '09 US car for under $9000. Here's a list (http://cars.about.com/od/helpforcarbuyers/tp/Cheapest_09.htm) of the cheapest models available today.

not a cost of ownership. You are counting that twice if you count the payment and depreciaiton. Look at it this way, you buy the car for $10,000 and park it. It depreciates $2,000 even though you don't touch it....simply cause its last years model now. Are you out another $2000? No...you are out your 10,000 cash and if you sold it, you would recoup $8,000. If the depreciation was actually a cost it would be $12,000 cost and recoup $8,000

Actually, depreciation is a cost. If you buy a car for $10,000 and sell it the next year for $8,000, you're losing $2,000. It's $2,000 you'd have in your pocket right now had you not bought the car in the first place; that's clearly a loss. If you're making car payments at the same time, you're losing even more, because then you also have to pay interest. (Well, maybe not right now, because car makers in their desperation are offering virtually interest-free loans.)

If you want some #'s.
From 2/25/2005 to today:
Maintenance $1654.70. Thats 10 oil/filter changes changes, 5 tires, one wheel to make the spare match the rest, and one wheel bearing.
Fuel Record:
Total Miles 63,822
Total Gallons 3836.84
Avg. MPG 16.634
Total Cost $9,718.27
Total Hours 1,732
Gallons / Hour 2.22
Avg. MPH 36.847
Cost / Mile $0.15


add in registration once a year at around $89 * 4 years, I'm up to about 11k. for 4 years. This is higher than average though since its a full size 4x4 truck and since we moved in July we never go more than a couple miles from home unless its recreational use as everything we need is here but those .5 drives to work kill the gas mileage, my highest mpg is 21. So take your average sedan wher it gets 30mpg and averages say 20somehting you should be able to cut those costs by a third, then remember that car tires can be had much cheaper too, I bought truck rated 8 ply off road tires because I was tired of fixing flats on the farm.

I also added $934 in accessories from a truck cap to second battery and isolator as I'm setup like an RV for long days at the parks or camping on the farm.


Was this vehicle free and do you not have to insure it?

I-Like-To-Bike: You are more than welcome to your opinion, but if you're not going to add anything to the conversation why do you even bother posting? So you can feel good about how "moderate" you are by calling others "car-free zealots"? First you complain about some kind of bias and agenda when Yahoo does not provide sources to back up the cited statistics, and then when data from a reputable source is provided you cry about how "irrational" the comparison is anyway.

You know what, you are right. Although it can be fun to see how much money we are "saving" by not owning a car, there are important differences between the two and they are not universally interchangeable. Obviously you can't reasonably commute 40 miles each way by bike where as it's perfectly possible with an automobile. If that's the point you want to make, then make it. Otherwise go back under your bridge and stop being an obnoxious troll.

I have a really hard time believing that the costs of being car-free even approaches the costs of owning a car. The AAA estimate of about $8000.00/year is probably based on actual data, given the price of many new cars, but let's assume most car purchasers don't buy high-end new cars. Let's assume you're like me. The last time I purchased a motor vehicle, it was a recent-year used small pickup. It cost me $12,000. I paid a large chunk up front, but even so, my payments were $175/mo. My insurance was $75/mo. Fuel and maintenance was about $240/mo. Not including depreciation, my monthly expenses were $490/mo for the truck. Not including my down payment, it cost me $5900/ year to own the vehicle. If you don't have to make car payments, the cost is much less, but it still runs into the thousands-of-dollars range.

In comparison, last year, I bought a new $1200 bike, including the cost of fenders and a rack. I spent an additional $75 on a light and cycle computer, $100 on pedals, and $130 on a tune-up and a couple of sets of brake pads. That adds up to about $1500 per year, a year in which I splurged on bike stuff, including a new bike. If I buy a new bike every year, my yearly car-free transportation expenses are about $4400 less than they would be if I had a car. If I hold on to my bike for many years, which is very likely, the savings are closer to $5600.

For those who factor food consumption into their calculations, I don't think it's a valid variable. Drivers eat as much, if not more, than bicyclists. In my case, before I went car-free, I ran five miles/day. Now I walk and ride everywhere I go, and don't run. I consume the same number of calories as before, maybe even less. My friends who do not bicycle consistently eat as much or more than I do. It's a huge stretch to imagine that a bicyclist eats like a horse, while his car-driving counterpart, understanding the limited energy needs of his sedentary lifestyle, settles for a salad and a small crust of bread.

i have a really hard time believing that the costs of being car-free even approaches the costs of owning a car. The aaa estimate of about $8000.00/year is probably based on actual data, given the price of many new cars, but let's assume most car purchasers don't buy high-end new cars. Let's assume you're like me. The last time i purchased a motor vehicle, it was a recent-year used small pickup. It cost me $12,000. I paid a large chunk up front, but even so, my payments were $175/mo. My insurance was $75/mo. Fuel and maintenance was about $240/mo. Not including depreciation, my monthly expenses were $490/mo for the truck. Not including my down payment, it cost me $5900/ year to own the vehicle. If you don't have to make car payments, the cost is much less, but it still runs into the thousands-of-dollars range.

In comparison, last year, i bought a new $1200 bike, including the cost of fenders and a rack. I spent an additional $75 on a light and cycle computer, $100 on pedals, and $130 on a tune-up and a couple of sets of brake pads. That adds up to about $1500 per year, a year in which i splurged on bike stuff, including a new bike. If i buy a new bike every year, my yearly car-free transportation expenses are about $4400 less than they would be if i had a car. If i hold on to my bike for many years, which is very likely, the savings are closer to $5600.

For those who factor food consumption into their calculations, i don't think it's a valid variable. Drivers eat as much, if not more, than bicyclists. In my case, before i went car-free, i ran five miles/day. Now i walk and ride everywhere i go, and don't run. I consume the same number of calories as before, maybe even less. My friends who do not bicycle consistently eat as much or more than i do. It's a huge stretch to imagine that a bicyclist eats like a horse, while his car-driving counterpart, understanding the limited energy needs of his sedentary lifestyle, settles for a salad and a small crust of bread.

+1

That's way more than we pay. We bought the car three years ago for 3200 euro, put about 150 euro in repairs and oil/filter changes a year, insurance is 85 euro a year, and we fill up about five times a year at about 30 euro a pop.

So lets see how much that really is......it's about 1450 euro a year ($1900), which of course will go down with longer ownership of the car. It's well worth it.

That's way more than we pay. We bought the car three years ago for 3200 euro, put about 150 euro in repairs and oil/filter changes a year, insurance is 85 euro a year, and we fill up about five times a year at about 30 euro a pop.

So lets see how much that really is......it's about 1450 euro a year ($1900), which of course will go down with longer ownership of the car. It's well worth it.

What Latvian cars last forever and dont cost anything to repair?

What Latvian cars last forever and dont cost anything to repair?

Do you have a specific question or are you only trolling?

I paid £7000 for my last car, brand new, plus £350 for a three year maintenance plan, and £600 interest on the finance. I drove it 14,000 miles in two years, costing about £1200 in fuel. Insurance was £165 a year, tax was £35. I sold it for £3500 after two years, so the total cost over that time was £9550 - £3500 = £6050, or £3025 a year. That's the first time I've worked it out, I didn't realise it was so much, even though it's less than the average American pays - this was a small European car, getting 60mpg.

In the year, nearly, that I've been car free, I spent £1600 on three(!) new bikes, and another £400 or so on accessories. This is an exceptional year, I won't be spending that much again for a long time. Now I see how I was able to afford a new flat screen TV and a PS3...

I have a really hard time believing that the costs of being car-free even approaches the costs of owning a car. The AAA estimate of about $8000.00/year is probably based on actual data, given the price of many new cars, but let's assume most car purchasers don't buy high-end new cars. Let's assume you're like me. The last time I purchased a motor vehicle, it was a recent-year used small pickup. It cost me $12,000. I paid a large chunk up front, but even so, my payments were $175/mo. My insurance was $75/mo. Fuel and maintenance was about $240/mo. Not including depreciation, my monthly expenses were $490/mo for the truck. Not including my down payment, it cost me $5900/ year to own the vehicle. If you don't have to make car payments, the cost is much less, but it still runs into the thousands-of-dollars range.

In comparison, last year, I bought a new $1200 bike, including the cost of fenders and a rack. I spent an additional $75 on a light and cycle computer, $100 on pedals, and $130 on a tune-up and a couple of sets of brake pads. That adds up to about $1500 per year, a year in which I splurged on bike stuff, including a new bike. If I buy a new bike every year, my yearly car-free transportation expenses are about $4400 less than they would be if I had a car. If I hold on to my bike for many years, which is very likely, the savings are closer to $5600.

For those who factor food consumption into their calculations, I don't think it's a valid variable. Drivers eat as much, if not more, than bicyclists. In my case, before I went car-free, I ran five miles/day. Now I walk and ride everywhere I go, and don't run. I consume the same number of calories as before, maybe even less. My friends who do not bicycle consistently eat as much or more than I do. It's a huge stretch to imagine that a bicyclist eats like a horse, while his car-driving counterpart, understanding the limited energy needs of his sedentary lifestyle, settles for a salad and a small crust of bread.

bragi, $240 a month for fuel and maintenance is a considerable expense, and so is the $75 a month insurance. My average annual expense for my SUV is now under $500, with fuel, licensing, and insurance included. Last year's expenses were higher by an extra $400 for a new set of tires after 10 years of sun checking.(Still had a legal amount of tread)

Don't wory, Yahoo doesn't link to the source document of this "average expense" data. But who needs any source when the "numbers" meet the agenda? Just throw the stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

It looks like the number quoted is about the same as what is quoted as the annual cost to own and operate a car by the American Automobile Association. I've cited their figures a few times before.

I have a really hard time believing that the costs of being car-free even approaches the costs of owning a car.

As others have shown, it depends on a number of factors. Owning a car doesn't have to be expensive; just buy used and drive as little as possible.

Actually, depreciation is a cost. If you buy a car for $10,000 and sell it the next year for $8,000, you're losing $2,000. It's $2,000 you'd have in your pocket right now had you not bought the car in the first place; that's clearly a loss. If you're making car payments at the same time, you're losing even more, because then you also have to pay interest. (Well, maybe not right now, because car makers in their desperation are offering virtually interest-free loans.)

you paid 10,000...if you use up the car, you are out 10,000.....depeciation is a non cash expense.

How detailed do you want me to get with it?

I don't think it is right to add depreciation to the cost of owning a car. That money is counted as soon as it leaves your bank account to buy the car. Cars are not investments. They are tools. Tools wear out and must be replaced. One can divide the purchase price by the number of years of ownership and calculate the average annual cost of the car (plus the other expenses). If the car is sold and some money is recouped then that amount can be subtracted from the purchase price to calculate the total cost of owning it. Purchase price and depreciation can't be added together in the calculation.