Road Cycling - How does carbon compare to steel?

I posted a thread this morning on what rides best, rides worst and doesn't ride at all. i've got quite a few answers, but most of the answers summed up that steel feels better than al. I just want some more info.

How does carbon feel? I've rode one bike (which was too small for my 6'3" 210 butt) and it felt noodly. Granted, the bike needs to fit the rider and when I am ready to drop the dough, it will be sized. However, I want to hear from those of you that RIDE carbon fiber.

Does it absorb vibration?

How long does it last?

If you are a large rider (over 180), does it flex much?

Is the bike finished if/when you crash and put a big gash in it?

Does it handle well?

I've summed up that Al is not for me. I like to take too long to ride what I do and comfort is a pretty big deal. I also know that with some effort, a good CF frame can be picked up.

Thanks for the help...

How does carbon feel?
[multiple questions snipped]


The short answer is that it all depends on the specific bike. Carbon fibre is a very versatile material... much more so than any of the others used to make bikes. The way the frame is designed, the layup of the mesh and epoxy, the type of CF used, the process used to form it, etc... all act to determine the actual feel, robustness and performance of the frame. There really is not much in the way of generalisations you can make about CF.

Stiffness seems to drop cosiderably in larger frame sizes, within any frame material. here is one of the better pages on touring frame materials http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html
And this one while from the same site is by another auther and deals more with frames he tested http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard_frametest.html

Here's a pointer to my contribution to another thread on frame materials (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=466242&postcount=4) which includes some information on CF from a material's standpoint.

1. How does carbon feel?
2. Does it absorb vibration?
3. How long does it last?
4. If you are a large rider (over 180), does it flex much?
5. Is the bike finished if/when you crash and put a big gash in it?
6. Does it handle well?

I feel qualified to respond as I own both carbon (Trek 5500) and steel (Lemond Maillot Jaune and Poprad)

1. Wonderful. Responsive and comfortable. Very light and fast.
2. Yes, much better than aluminum and on par with steel. Some days it feels better, some days not.
3. Tough to say, many people have had theirs for years.
4. Can't say, I'm 165.
5. Only if it compromises the structural integrity. Just like any frame.
6. Very well. See answer #1.

I think part of the hesitation for people over carbon is due to the fact it hasn't been great for very long. There isn't a hundred years of history to draw upon like steel. Bottom line, you can't go wrong with either and if you stick with it, you'll eventually end up with both and more. Maybe titanium?

If you're really undecided, take a test ride on the new '04 Lemonds - great combination of both steel and carbon.

55/Rad

leadbutt
for what it's worth; I struggled with the same delima months ago when looking for a new bike. I read so many articles on metalurgy, frame materials, lugs, tigs, stress, finite limits, glue bonds, stiffness, ratios, flex ect... Anyway I think you can go mad thinking about it. I determined for myself that I would go for the new technology vs the old. That was the only way I could proove what was what, not by reading opinions. My older bike was a steel lugged bike and was/is still a nice bike but I wanted a racing bike to race this year so I whent with a carbon/AL frame. The rear triangle is carbon as well as the fork, the rest is AL. It's an awesome bike that I can ride all day on just like my steel ride and yet it's so much more responsive to speed, cornering, climbing etc... Is it because of the materials? I don't know but it sure was worth the try to find out. btw I am 6'3'' and I was 200lbs now down to 185. My Steel frame is a 62cm but my new frame is a 60cm c-c. The seat tube and head tube stick out above the top tube so as to sort of make up to the 62cm fit. I guess the tighter triangle makes for a stiffer ride. The whole concept of stiffer ride was alien to me untill I got this bike. Now I can really tell that there is a stiffness in the system that I can use to my advantage on the road...

It doesn't make sense to choose a bike based on what it's made out of. Choose the bike based on how it rides. Get a good test, make sure the bike fits you and the tires are pumped to pressure, wring it out as much as the shop will let you.

Choose the bike that feels best to you for the kind of riding you do. (The only exception I might make would be to avoid ultra-lightweight unless you only plan on using the frame for a single season.)

The short answer is that it all depends on the specific bike. Carbon fibre is a very versatile material... much more so than any of the others used to make bikes. The way the frame is designed, the layup of the mesh and epoxy, the type of CF used, the process used to form it, etc... all act to determine the actual feel, robustness and performance of the frame. There really is not much in the way of generalisations you can make about CF.

And speaking of carbon fiber, I notice that your signature line has a Aro Svelte.
I'm considering buying one and am wondering it it's too sporty for a commuter bike.

How hard would it be to fit this bike with fenders and a rear rack? or would that be a crime?

And speaking of carbon fiber, I notice that your signature line has a Aro Svelte.
I'm considering buying one and am wondering it it's too sporty for a commuter bike.

How hard would it be to fit this bike with fenders and a rear rack? or would that be a crime?

I would not recommend using the Aro Svelte as a commuter. It doesn't have rack mounts or any provisions for mounting fenders although I suppose you could use those cheesy clip-on fenders. It's pretty much a straight-up performance race bike but can be used for fully supported tours. If you want to stick with Aegis, a better choice might be the Shaman. It's a cyclocross bike and while it still lacks eyelets for mounting stuff, it has more clearance for running wider tyres and you might be able to use MTB fenders (not sure though). I know someone who's used it successfully as a commuter. I note that you're in the Seattle area. If you ever want to meet up and take a look at my Aegis or just to do some rides, let me know either via email or PM. Also, if it's not a haul for you, stop by Bothell Ski and Bike. They're the ones who set me up with my Aegis. The store is family-owned/run and they're friendly helpful guys who have built up quite a few Aegis bikes over the years. Tell 'em Jake sent you. ;)

It doesn't make sense to choose a bike based on what it's made out of. Choose the bike based on how it rides. Get a good test, make sure the bike fits you and the tires are pumped to pressure, wring it out as much as the shop will let you.

Choose the bike that feels best to you for the kind of riding you do. (The only exception I might make would be to avoid ultra-lightweight unless you only plan on using the frame for a single season.)

I agree, choose a bike based on how it rides. I feel I have something to add here because I have a steel Ritchey and a carbon Kestrel. I really like the way both ride. Every time I ride one bike for a while, and then get on the other bike, I think, this is a great bike. But there are real differences in the material. Steel is going to weight almost a pound more and carbon is great for damping vibrations. How many steel bikes come with carbon forks? They say steel is real, but that carbon fork is priceless!

I know a guy that is big and he bought a trek. They have a lifetime warranty, but only if you don't crash it. He cracked his a few times and he got it replaced...trek sells so many that they take the chance that most people don't ride that hard. If you're a big guy, and want steel, don't just buy any steel bike, get one that really fits you. There are builders that specialize in building for big guys; zinn is one that comes to mind. :rolleyes:

If you are going to use a bike for commuting (or winter training in wet weather), it makes sense to chose one that works from the start, rather than hacking around with clip-on bits and pieces. Rack and fender mounts, and sufficient tyre clearance are a must. Most commuter bikes get a lot of abuse, including dropping against walls and onto the floor, so it doesn't make sense to ride your Sunday-best bike.

Many steel frames come with carbon forks. In fact these days it is very rare to find a quality steel frame that comes with a good steel fork. Touring bikes are really the last preserve of the custom steel fork.

Many steel frames come with carbon forks. In fact these days it is very rare to find a quality steel frame that comes with a good steel fork. Touring bikes are really the last preserve of the custom steel fork.

Agreed although there seems to be a pretty nice revival of high quality steel forks spurred on by the singlespeed crowd. I really like the Surly forks. The Steamroller and Pacer are quite luscious looking forks.

Agreed although there seems to be a pretty nice revival of high quality steel forks spurred on by the singlespeed crowd. I really like the Surly forks. The Steamroller and Pacer are quite luscious looking forks.

The weight-weanies won't like it. The lightest pair of steel forks I have are ~700g

Well after about one minute into the test ride of a Trek OCLV and it was instant love. I have a ti bike too and anymore on my way out the door I find myself reaching for the Trek instead. I take the ti bike downtown when I'm in a mood to play in heavy trafic because the frame geometry seems tighter on it and besides she gives me these sad neglected looks. As far as the Trek being carbon, I hope she DOES fall apart in a few years. I like buying bikes!! honest....... I wouldn't seem like such a frivolous idiot to my non ridding friends. Carbon is plush, stiff; responsive. I'd say there is tiny bit of flex but so what, I'm a strong ridder but only about 140#; so dont know what it's like for a heavy guy and flex issue. The ti is nice too but in a different way. Seems to have the carbon's qualties but to a less amount. Make sense? hard to describe....OCLV handles very solid (imo) and I really do push my bikes HARD (probably end up in the hospital!) in corners etc... just try an OCLV; you might like it.