Advocacy & Safety - Drunken bicyclists.

Polish court rules that drunken bicyclists may be jailed. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7994857.stm)

If only we had this problem!

Harsh...

I just read this (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6005270.ece)about France.

I've seen a report that said 21% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death and I've seen a report that said 24% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death.

Well, if we want to be respected as users of the road on an equal basis with cars and trucks, than we ought to be willing to accept the responsibilities and obligations thereof.

I've seen a report that said 21% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death and I've seen a report that said 24% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death.

Thats the thing with statistics... you can make them look however you want.

on any given day, what % of cyclists would you say were drunk? Thats a key factor. What time of day do most deaths occur? What is the % of drunk bikers at this time?

If 30% of cyclists are drunk yet they only make up 21% of the deaths... that would mean that being drunk while cycling saves lives!!!!

Im not an advocate of riding drunk.. im merely pointing out flaws in random statistics being thrown out there.

I've seen a report that said 21% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death and I've seen a report that said 24% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death.


Are you referring to this (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/study-links-alcohol-and-bike-deaths/) article? Says "detected alcohol"...

Is that different than "drunk" ?

Thats the thing with statistics... you can make them look however you want...


I'd say that chances of someone dying while riding a bike on car filled streets drunk, far exceeds their chances doing the same thing sober.

I'd say this is a people problem and wouldn't be surprised if there's comparable proportions of people drunk doing all kinds of things

Are you referring to this (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/study-links-alcohol-and-bike-deaths/) article? Says "detected alcohol"...

Is that different than "drunk" ?

I get your point. They may or may not be drunk. I'd think they may be, but to what degree, it's not clear.

According to the Fatality Analysis Reporting System, drunk bicyclists cause 24% of bicycle fatalities, and I also have a report (that I'll dig out) on fatalities to cyclists in my province where I was surprised to see just how many cyclists died while drunk. Couple that up with all the drunk drivers that kill cyclists and it's hard not to feel the impact being drunk on the road makes.

I'd say this is a people problem and wouldn't be surprised if there's comparable proportions of people drunk doing all kinds of things

Yeah, Some people like to get drunk and then post on the internet :p

Should the limit be different for cyclists than motorists?

For driving a car, there is a level of intoxication where one should not be driving, but one thinks one can; that level is much higher for a bike. On a bike, if one is still sober enough to balance on two wheels one is probably still sober enough to get home safely, provided one sticks to the back streets. Perhaps the law should recognize that fact.

not too mention the age old concept that protection of others as a higher priority over self-protection

Should the limit be different for cyclists than motorists?

For driving a car, there is a level of intoxication where one should not be driving, but one thinks one can; that level is much higher for a bike. On a bike, if one is still sober enough to balance on two wheels one is probably still sober enough to get home safely, provided one sticks to the back streets. Perhaps the law should recognize that fact.

agreed... and the fact that the only person a drunken biker usually harms is his/her self

With a car, you have the ability to kill many others, not so much on a bike. Unless you get creative

****in'-A, it's much safer to bike drunk than to drive drunk.

:beer:

who cares

who cares

All those cyclists who ride because too many DUIs have gotten their car privleges revoked?



I'd also say even as a non DUI cyclist its a good idea to pay attention to any new laws related to bicycles as you can get a picture of how lawmakers are percieving bikes and may get an idea of what to expect next...

That report I had was from the BC Coroners Office on the deaths to cyclists in BC.

In the appendix there were brief descriptions of the circumstances of what happened that led to the collisions that caused the deaths.

There were as many cyclists who were drunk as there were motorists who were drunk.

Does that make drinking while riding as dangerous to a cyclist as a drunk driver is to a cyclist?

Polish court rules that drunken bicyclists may be jailed. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7994857.stm)

If only we had this problem!


Good, I HATE drunks. No matter what they do. Useless human beings. And no, IMHO it's NOT a "disease". It's an addiction which IMHO isn't a disease.

Should the limit be different for cyclists than motorists?


Nope. A drunk cyclist can swerve into a car lane and hit a car or ped just like a car can. Many of these cases could lead to someone dying.

Fine and jail their asses I say.

It's an addiction which IMHO isn't a disease.

From where did you earn your medical degree?

Should the limit be different for cyclists than motorists?


In California law, it is illegal to bike under the influence but there is not specific blood alcohol percentage listed as qualifying as "under the influence" like there is for driving a car (.08%). So one can indeed argue that they were not too far under the influence to bike even if they were over the limit to drive a car. If convicted, the fine isn't all that high anyway and of course is not connected to one's driving record or insurance rates or any of that stuff.

Once we get all the cycling drunks off the road, let's go after all the drunk joggers, walkers, and sidlers.

Actually, perhaps we should simply set a curfew. That seems to be the real issue here. People really should be in bed. Like Tommyr.

Once we get all the cycling drunks off the road, let's go after all the drunk joggers, walkers, and sidlers.

Well, there are laws against "public intoxication" .

Good, I HATE drunks. No matter what they do. Useless human beings. And no, IMHO it's NOT a "disease". It's an addiction which IMHO isn't a disease.

Just to clarify, do you hate people who habitually get drunk, or do you hate people when they are drunk in general?

I've seen a report that said 24% of cyclists who died in a collision were drunk at the time of their death.

That means that 76% of cyclists killed in collisions were not drunk. Clearly, sober cyclists are the greater threat. :innocent:

Just to clarify, do you hate people who habitually get drunk, or do you hate people when they are drunk in general?

Both actually but alcoholics piss me off the most.

From where did you earn your medical degree?

I take it, as you haven't answered the question, that you don't have one. You seem to be just someone who likes to spout off opinions on subjects of which you are ignorant.

From where did you earn your medical degree?

Oh I'm not a doctor at all. Then again, an oncologist told my mom she'd live a long life ("the cancer is slow growing and we got it all!") and my mom died a year and a half later. Doctors are NOT the least bit trustworthy IMHO.....They are pieces of ****.

Well, if we want to be respected as users of the road on an equal basis with cars and trucks, than we ought to be willing to accept the responsibilities and obligations thereof.

Agreed.

Though some buddies and I want to get together and fill our Camelbacks with Golden Grain and Fruit Punch and then see who can ride some mountain bike trails the longest. We'd film the pain and suffering of course.

Oh I'm not a doctor at all. Then again, an oncologist told my mom she'd live a long life ("the cancer is slow growing and we got it all!") and my mom died a year and a half later. Doctors are NOT the least bit trustworthy IMHO.....They are pieces of ****.

Um... okay.

Sorry about your mother, but way to generalize.

fyi--
For the record, the legal blood alcohol limit in Poland is a draconian .02, ... What's more, 4x the legal limit in Poland translates to a measly .08, or the minimum level for Nick Nolte to function properly. (http://http://eternalremont.blogspot.com/2008/06/real-headline-another-drunk-baby-born.html)

If .02 is the legal limit, it makes this all seem more like a money making scheme, rather than any real protection.

Once we get all the cycling drunks off the road, let's go after all the drunk joggers, walkers, and sidlers.

Actually, perhaps we should simply set a curfew. That seems to be the real issue here. People really should be in bed. Like Tommyr.

:thumb::roflmao2:

I take it, as you haven't answered the question, that you don't have one. You seem to be just someone who likes to spout off opinions on subjects of which you are ignorant.

In his defense he did say IMHO or In My Honest Opinion. But he does sound like he could use a drink.

Doctors are peices of ****? Well you do realize that you don't have to see them if you don't want to. You can always go to The Church of Christ, Scientist. But poor saw bones probably went to 4 years of college, 4 of med school, internships, residencies, specialty training and keeps a $160 yearly subscription to the NEJM to be outsmarted by a bicyclist.

He sounds generally like a very angry, opinionated, and generally unpleasant person. I'm guessing that he has alienated everyone in his life, so the only place he has to vent his spleen is on the Internet.

Lets let him crawl back under his bridge while we go into the mountains and eat grass.

Prohibition failed, so it's likely that the "people problem" of alcohol will remain with us awhile. Personally I would hate to have to start being concerned that I might be pulled over on my bike after I've had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner someplace and the jails in California are already an overcrowded mess...

has there been any society in history that has not used some form of intoxicant?

fyi--
For the record, the legal blood alcohol limit in Poland is a draconian .02, ... What's more, 4x the legal limit in Poland translates to a measly .08, or the minimum level for Nick Nolte to function properly. (http://http://eternalremont.blogspot.com/2008/06/real-headline-another-drunk-baby-born.html)

If .02 is the legal limit, it makes this all seem more like a money making scheme, rather than any real protection.

Having been in Poland I don't think the 0.2 limit is enforced too much with bicyclists. Poland is a big place so there might be variations. But it can't be too good to crash into something being over 0.2 .

I think the problem is , people in a lot places people use beater bikes as their transportation when they go to bars or generally get drunk. So drunk isn't 0.2 but something like 2.0 . I have seen people who can barely walk go ride home on their(if it really is theirs) crappy bike. Imho this group causes the whole issue.

has there been any society in history that has not used some form of intoxicant?



Like it or not we're stuck with alcohol and everything that goes with it as our socially sanctioned drug of choice.

That means that 76% of cyclists killed in collisions were not drunk. Clearly, sober cyclists are the greater threat. :innocent:


OK...that's funny..:)

I'd say that chances of someone dying while riding a bike on car filled streets drunk, far exceeds their chances doing the same thing sober.

I'd say this is a people problem and wouldn't be surprised if there's comparable proportions of people drunk doing all kinds of things

Long ago I read that something like 80% of all rattlesnake bites involved males 18-25 (about) that had been drinking.

A fair percentage of drunks are stupid drunks.

Long ago I read that something like 80% of all rattlesnake bites involved males 18-25 (about) that had been drinking.

A fair percentage of drunks are stupid drunks.

And a fair percentage of people are stupid when they're stone cold sober.

And a fair percentage of people are stupid when they're stone cold sober.

and can you imagine what happens to them when they're drunk?

and can you imagine what happens to them when they're drunk?

Well for me:
Sober - Enjoys running at a high rate of speed down skinny trails surrounded by trees just a few inches away from you.

Drunk - Loves billiards

I've never gotten hurt drunk. I've nearly killed myself multiple times sober. I guess I should ride drunk.

I've never gotten hurt drunk. I've nearly killed myself multiple times sober. I guess I should ride drunk.

One of my college friends when drunk slipped and fell down a very long iron staircase and ended up with severe deep-tissue bruises. The ER doctor said that if he had slipped when sober he probably would have broken several bones; because he was drunk, as soon as he lost his footing he was like a ragdoll--had he been sober he would have thought about it and tried to save himself.

has there been any society in history that has not used some form of intoxicant?

The Inuit, as far as I know, are the only example. And that's just because plants don't grow above the arctic circle! Groups of young male elephants have been known to gorge themselves on fermented melons and rampage through towns.

The only thing scarier than drunken rampaging elephants, I think, is a drunken person in a 2000 lb hunk of steel moving a hundred miles as hour. A few months ago I was driving home (in a car, sober) and a pick-up passed me going at least twice the speed limit. The truck swerved back and forth before travelling across two oncoming lanes and tearing the front end right off a small sedan. Miraculously, the driver of the car was alright. The driver of the truck was drunk and took off running.
I'm convinced the only reason the fella in the car survived were all the fancy front and side airbags that deployed around him (I'm not kidding, the front end of the car was GONE). If it had been me on my bike (I usually cross that bridge several) I would have been a grease spot on the pavement, no question.

People, myself included, are going to drink, sometimes too much. I'd much rather see them wobble by on a bike than get in a car.

I'm convinced the only reason the fella in the car survived were all the fancy front and side airbags that deployed around him (I'm not kidding, the front end of the car was GONE).

It sounds more as if the fellow survived because the front end of the vehicle was torn off to the side, thereby pulling the engine and everything associated with it away from the driver's side of the passenger compartment.

No amount of so-called airbags or seatbelts would have prevented serious injury had that truck, as you described it, t-boned the vehicle a couple feet closer into the passenger compartment. For that matter, the results would have been equally as grim had the collision been head-on (say goodbye to your legroom, and your legs in the process, when that engine piles up under the dashboard.

-Kurt

Actually the crash was pretty much head on, I suppose I wasn't totally clear before. The car was fairly new, and the degree to which the front end absorbed the impact and crumpled (as well as parts of it flying all over the place) was impressive. I wouldn't say the victim escaped free of serious injury either. When we cut him out of the airbags he was totally unresponsive and bleeding pretty badly. By the time emergency response showed up, he was talking and he knew his own name, so I imagine things worked out better than they could have. Never found out if the cops caught the truck driver, but his friends (there were three other people in the truck) left in ambulances, so I don't imagine he got too far.

The take home message for me though, is that we can wear helmets, high vis stuff and blinky lights like crazy, as well as ride in an alert, defensive, responsible manner, and none of that will matter one bit in the face of a drunk twit in a lifted one ton. Zipping down the bridges in the middle of the night used to be one of my favorite things, now I stick to the enclosed ped walkway after dark.

Be safe pals.

The Inuit, as far as I know, are the only example. And that's just because plants don't grow above the arctic circle! Groups of young male elephants have been known to gorge themselves on fermented melons and rampage through towns.

In Norway a couple of years ago, they had an early frost and snow, then a mild spell in early winter. The plums and apples that were still on the trees got frozen off and covered with a layer of snow, where they fermented. During the mild spell, the moose came and ate them, so they had drunk moose staggering around.

Moose are like people, I guess, in that it affected individuals differently. Some got mean and aggressive, while others just became very mellow and sleepy.

There is a web site for the drunk cyclist.
http://drunkcyclist.com/

The Inuit, as far as I know, are the only example. And that's just because plants don't grow above the arctic circle!

Plants do grow north of the arctic circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_National_Wildlife_Refuge). Many present-day Inuit communities certainly have alcohol, but I'm not aware of any intoxicating substances having been available to them before Europeans came.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtPplZnPuMA