General Cycling Discussion - Has cycling made me a road raging driver ?

So I am out running errands all over town with the wife over the weekend. And keep getting behind A-holes who can't drive. Or in the very least don't drive very well. I get behind one guy that proceeds to slam his brakes in the middle of a road, trying to decide which way to turn. I honk my horn, yell out some expletives in his direction (he can't hear me. It's really for my own enjoyment), and eventually he pulls his head out and turns left (of course, with no signal... who knows what that little lever does)

My wife proceeds to tell me, "Ya know, the more time you spend on your bike, the less tolerant you are with other drivers. Your're gonna freak out one day and go all road-rage on one of these guys."

And ya know what... I think she may have something. I think Cycling has made me a better driver. I am more aware of where people are and what they are doing. But, on the slip side of this, I have almost no tolerance for people and the ignorant ways they drive. They never signal, they tailgate me because I am only going 70 mph on the highway (when they wanna fly past me, and get to their destination 2 minutes ahead of me, therefore wasting gas), these people just irritate me. And I have concluded that the more expensive a car you drive, the more ignorant, and stupid you are. I live in an area where Mercedes, BMW's, Range Rovers, and the like are regular occurences. So now you know the amount of A-holes I deal with on a regular basis...

I'm glad I don;t own a gun, or have a push bar on my pickup... :D

Sorry for the rant... people just bug

jeff

I think it has a lot to do with the general decline in driving etiquette, and an increase in the number of people on the road.

There was a time when, if you missed a turn you went around the block to correct the mistake. Now most people just stop and U-turn it or cut across multiple lanes of traffic.

It also has a lot to do with the evil that is the modern cheap cell-phone. Ten years ago, a cell was bulky to carry around and exspensive to use. Now the first thing people do when they hop in the car is get on the phone and call up someone to yak with, diverting their precious few brain cells from the task of operating the car. One of the kids that works here is on the phone EVERYDAY as he gets into his car. I have never seen him behind the wheel and not on his phone.

Sipper,

Every thing you said applies to me, also. My wife has concluded the same thing about me that your wife has about you. Obviously, being closer (and sometimes too intimate) to traffic on a daily basis due to my bike commuting has eroded my patience and tolerance to zero.

I am gratefull I don't have grenades with me on my commutes...although I do have some handy pockets for them in my jersey. Maybe a gift opportunity for me someday...

Sucking on someone's rear wheel in group rides over the years has turned me into an impatient tailgating driver. Not good....

wow.....now I understand why my partner now tells me to calm down when I am driving. I didn't notice it, but all this is true! I am now so impatient with poor drivers!

they tailgate me because I am only going 70 mph on the highway


Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.

Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.
Say what? Nobody deserves their lives being endangered by a tailgater in any situation. If you're in the left lane and travelling at the speed limit or with the flow of traffic, there's no reason for a speeding motorist to give you any grief.

I hope you were being sarcastic and just forgot to let us know...

Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.


I was doing it today in the left lane on a road where the speed limit is 50... I was driving 70... this A-hole in a big Chevy truck kept swerving between the 2 lanes (no signal) trying to find a way to get by.. I was already going 20 over the limit, and so was the guy in the lane next to me... I didn;t want to go any faster, and if I slowed down his guy woulda slammed me... screw him

jeff

I've always been annoyed with the general driving population. I'm not sure if it's because I've been a cyclist far longer than I've been a driver (started cycling around age 5 or so and driving at 16). However, I really think the thing that shaped my attitude towards drivers is flight training. Anyone who has gone through even the basics of learning how to fly appreciates the level of discipline, professionalism and training that's required and should be required to operate any kind of vehicle. These seem rather lacking from the general automotive public.

Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.

Reality check: in much of the US the volume of traffic demands that all lanes are in continuous use. Many areas don't have the privelege of reserving the left lane for passing only. Not to mention the fact that you can be passing the right lane traffic at a 20MPH differential and still get a nasty tailgater on your ass. You're talking ideal fantasy senarios, not reality.

Say what? Nobody deserves their lives being endangered by a tailgater in any situation. If you're in the left lane and travelling at the speed limit or with the flow of traffic, there's no reason for a speeding motorist to give you any grief.


You might want to check your local highway code on that one.

Irregardless of traffic speed slower traffic must move right. And don't think because you're at or above the speed limit that it's OK to hold up other drivers... it's the job of the police to enforce speed limits... not you.

You might want to check your local highway code on that one.

Irregardless of traffic speed slower traffic must move right. And don't think because you're at or above the speed limit that it's OK to hold up other drivers... it's the job of the police to enforce speed limits... not you.

Still... tailgating creates a dangerous situation. And it's equally wrong for the tailgater to try to enforce a "slower traffic keep right" rule by promoting/engaging in a dangerous activity.

Around here we have so many curves with double yellow lines..Can't count how many times a week someone passes without knowing what is coming in the other lane.. That is my major worry... On a couple ocassions, I needed hit the brakes to lit the creep in or else there would have been a head on.
Ditto to everyone else's comments...I know cycling has made me less patient with the idiots.
And to think that co-workers attack cycling as being unsafe..I do my best to set them straight.

Driving is an art. And it surely is not a right.

I autocross, and if I'm able to hustle a 1994 Mazda Protege to a class-win, and only 3 seconds behind a Dodge Viper ACR, then I must be doing something right.

(BTW: The Viper was driven by an elderly man who had JUST bought it, but I still have the benefit of saying that, right?!) :)

You might want to check your local highway code on that one.

Irregardless of traffic speed slower traffic must move right. And don't think because you're at or above the speed limit that it's OK to hold up other drivers... it's the job of the police to enforce speed limits... not you.

Exactly. Of course there are a million exceptions (like when you are in a steady stream of traffic, left lane exit ahead,etc.).

But what speed you are going is no excuse to be there. If you don't want to go any faster than the person next to you on the right and no one is holding you up from passing, then you should slow down and get behind the person next to you on the right.

It's a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp since it seems counterintuitive to speed limit laws. But make no mistake, in most states that have left lane passing laws you will get a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing even if both of you are going above the speed limit (even if neither of you get a speeding ticket).

Why? Because it's a safety issue. Studies have shown that traffic moves safer when it flows well. Speeding causes a slight increase in danger for driving, blocks in the traffic flow cause a huge increase in danger. Legislators and police departments have recognized that and are trying to make the roads safer.

And beyond that it's a courtesy issue. Why hold someone up for no reason? You are not there to enforce speed limit laws. You are there to obey the left lane passing laws. Nearly Everyone speeds and everyone has a different idea of what how much above the speed limit it is ok to speed at. Don't enforce your opinon on everyone else.

You might want to check your local highway code on that one.

Irregardless of traffic speed slower traffic must move right. And don't think because you're at or above the speed limit that it's OK to hold up other drivers... it's the job of the police to enforce speed limits... not you.
A very contentious point...

I said "travelling at the speed limit or with the flow of traffic".

So, if you're with the flow of traffic and in the left hand lane, you can't very well break a law about impeding the normal flow of traffic, can you?

As to 'at the speed limit': the traffic codes of most states and coutries word these laws as 'no vehicle can drive at such a speed as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic', or something along those lines. Since every section of the traffic code is pursuant to all other sections of the code, then even in perfect conditions traffic flow is surely at an unreasonable speed if above the speed limit. I'd highly doubt that a ticket given for impeding traffic flow for driving at or above the speed limit in the left hand lane would actually hold up in court. That isn't the intent of the law.

The comment I was responding was "Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.". Irregardless of the intent of the impeding traffic laws, it most definitely isn't the job of speeding drivers to put others at risk through tailgating and intimidation, and nowhere in the traffic code will you find a law that says you can.

Exactly. Of course there are a million exceptions (like when you are in a steady stream of traffic, left lane exit ahead,etc.).

But what speed you are going is no excuse to be there. If you don't want to go any faster than the person next to you on the right and no one is holding you up from passing, then you should slow down and get behind the person next to you on the right.

It's a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp since it seems counterintuitive to speed limit laws. But make no mistake, in most states that have left lane passing laws you will get a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing even if both of you are going above the speed limit (even if neither of you get a speeding ticket).

Why? Because it's a safety issue. Studies have shown that traffic moves safer when it flows well. Speeding causes a slight increase in danger for driving, blocks in the traffic flow cause a huge increase in danger. Legislators and police departments have recognized that and are trying to make the roads safer.

And beyond that it's a courtesy issue. Why hold someone up for no reason? You are not there to enforce speed limit laws. You are there to obey the left lane passing laws. Nearly Everyone speeds and everyone has a different idea of what how much above the speed limit it is ok to speed at. Don't enforce your opinon on everyone else.
For the most part, I do actually agree with you. From a courtesy standpoint, you shouldn't be in the lane if you're not overtaking, which is exactly what I always do. From a legal standpoint, it is a grey area. Just because you get a ticket does not mean it will hold up, though.

More importantly, tailgating is never legal and is never deserved.

More importantly, tailgating is never legal and is never deserved.

True.

But I have to admit I'll push closer than normal (probably not quite "tailgating" but that depends on your definition) to someone blocking the left lane to try to communicate to them that they should be moving. I think 95% of the people that are doing it are just not paying attention (usually proven out by the fact that when the rest of the cars finally find a way around him he'll speed up ten miles per hour).

Of course, there are a ton of just plain jerks out there and it sounds like this guy was one of them.

I think Cycling has made me a better driver. I am more aware of where people are and what they are doing.

I think by the lack of insulation and diversions of comfort that motorists have, cycling makes you more aware of traffic and a safer road user.

Just keep that temper in check, think clearly, and keep away from the bad drivers. There will always be bad drivers and it's up to the police to get them and up to us if the police do not get them, to get the police to do their jobs.

Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you're doing it in the left lane and you're not passing, you will get tailgated and deserve it.


I do not agree with this. While slower moving traffic should stay to the right as a courtesy, I think it is fine to use the left lane, especially on the interstate as a travelling lane. I do it all the time while driving from Sioux City to Des Moines, about a 200 mile trip. The reasons I do are simple. The right lane, typically the most traveled on is not as smooth of a ride then the left & at night, especially in the winter time if I go off the road due to snow & ice, I want to be seen in the center ditch rather then have people try to find me in the one on the right which can be in a pretty deep ravine at times.

So for me it is a matter of comfort & safety. Now I generally drive at speeds 70 to 75 mph on the interstate, about 5 to 10 over the limit. If someone comes up behind me at a higher speed I move to the right to let them pass, then move back to the left. Or I speed up if there is traffic in the right lane and I can't get over right away. But if they tail gate me to closely I start tapping my brakes & I slow down until they back off, then when I can, I get over. I do this to teach them a lesson & to piss them off.

I hate tailgaters. One of these days I'm just going to slam on my brakes and let them rear end me. It'll be their fault they were to close & I had to stop all of a sudden.

True.

But I have to admit I'll push closer than normal (probably not quite "tailgating" but that depends on your definition) to someone blocking the left lane to try to communicate to them that they should be moving. I think 95% of the people that are doing it are just not paying attention (usually proven out by the fact that when the rest of the cars finally find a way around him he'll speed up ten miles per hour).

Of course, there are a ton of just plain jerks out there and it sounds like this guy was one of them.

Like I said if you are to close to me until I can get over I'm the kind of driver who will start tapping the brakes & slowing down to get you to back off until I can move to the right. If it is clear to the right I'll get over right away. But if you try to pass me before I'm in completely in the right lane I'll move back into the left lane & make you back off again. You want me out of the way, fine. But let it happen safely. Don't try to take off the rear corner of my vehicle while I'm trying to change lanes. This happens all to often by morons who are in to big of a freaking hurry. I'll start changing lanes & all of a sudden the idiot will start passing me before I am entirely in the right lane.

But if they tail gate me to closely I start tapping my brakes & I slow down until they back off, then when I can, I get over. I do this to teach them a lesson & to piss them off.

That'd be passive road rage... ;)

I used to think that sounded like a great thing to do to tailgaters, or even better don't worry about the brakes and just start slowing down naturally. Funny thing is, it's a bit of a 'once an arsehole, always an arsehole' situation. By doing this, you don't end up teaching them a lesson at all. A friend of mine who is a serial tailgater hasn't even learned his lesson after three rear-ending accidents. They were all his fault, but of course he doesn't believe that - to him it's always the fault of the stupid moron in front of him!

Yup... all you end up doing by slowing down is pissing them off...

Exactly. Of course there are a million exceptions (like when you are in a steady stream of traffic, left lane exit ahead,etc.).

But what speed you are going is no excuse to be there. If you don't want to go any faster than the person next to you on the right and no one is holding you up from passing, then you should slow down and get behind the person next to you on the right.

It's a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp since it seems counterintuitive to speed limit laws. But make no mistake, in most states that have left lane passing laws you will get a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing even if both of you are going above the speed limit (even if neither of you get a speeding ticket).

Why? Because it's a safety issue. Studies have shown that traffic moves safer when it flows well. Speeding causes a slight increase in danger for driving, blocks in the traffic flow cause a huge increase in danger. Legislators and police departments have recognized that and are trying to make the roads safer.

And beyond that it's a courtesy issue. Why hold someone up for no reason? You are not there to enforce speed limit laws. You are there to obey the left lane passing laws. Nearly Everyone speeds and everyone has a different idea of what how much above the speed limit it is ok to speed at. Don't enforce your opinon on everyone else.


I agree 100%. Too bad more people don't think like this.

I do not agree with this. While slower moving traffic should stay to the right as a courtesy, I think it is fine to use the left lane, especially on the interstate as a travelling lane. I do it all the time while driving from Sioux City to Des Moines, about a 200 mile trip. The reasons I do are simple. The right lane, typically the most traveled on is not as smooth of a ride then the left & at night, especially in the winter time if I go off the road due to snow & ice, I want to be seen in the center ditch rather then have people try to find me in the one on the right which can be in a pretty deep ravine at times.

So for me it is a matter of comfort & safety. Now I generally drive at speeds 70 to 75 mph on the interstate, about 5 to 10 over the limit. If someone comes up behind me at a higher speed I move to the right to let them pass, then move back to the left. Or I speed up if there is traffic in the right lane and I can't get over right away. But if they tail gate me to closely I start tapping my brakes & I slow down until they back off, then when I can, I get over. I do this to teach them a lesson & to piss them off.

I hate tailgaters. One of these days I'm just going to slam on my brakes and let them rear end me. It'll be their fault they were to close & I had to stop all of a sudden.


That will all be well and good...provided the guy behind you that you were holding up doesn't get out and beat the **** out of you for being an @$$! You had better think about your actions before putting them into play, their are alot of crazy, and explosive people on the road these days.

As to 'at the speed limit': the traffic codes of most states and coutries word these laws as 'no vehicle can drive at such a speed as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic', or something along those lines. Since every section of the traffic code is pursuant to all other sections of the code, then even in perfect conditions traffic flow is surely at an unreasonable speed if above the speed limit. I'd highly doubt that a ticket given for impeding traffic flow for driving at or above the speed limit in the left hand lane would actually hold up in court. That isn't the intent of the law.

And evidence of this can be seen here: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=45674

An Ohio driver was ticketed and convicted for impeding traffic, but an appellate court overturned the original decision.

It is amazing how many people can't really handle an automobile. Having a drivers license has nothing to do with it. I agree that getting a drivers license should be a lot more like getting a pilots license. Oh, you don't understand basic physics? Sorry, no license for you. You don't know how to recover from a skid, and can't prove it? No license. Can't change a tire? No. Under-steer, over-steer, trailing throttle over-steer, threshold braking???? NO. Go study, come back later.

If you are in the left lane AT ANY SPEED and a car comes up behind you, you should, and are legally required to, move into the right lane. If you do not understand that, you need to read your state drivers manual.

Here is a good one. I am in an exit lane. The car just ahead to my left puts her turn signal on. I slow down to let them in. There was now more than enough room (2 car lengths) for about 3-4 seconds. She then hits the brakes and does the little "I'm confused" left and right swerve. Now she is beside me. I hit the gas to get out of her way. The passenger gives me the full blown out the window finger. He flipped me off because his wife couldn't drive. GREAT.

Here is a good one. I am in an exit lane. The car just ahead to my left puts her turn signal on. I slow down to let them in. There was now more than enough room (2 car lengths) for about 3-4 seconds. She then hits the brakes and does the little "I'm confused" left and right swerve. Now she is beside me. I hit the gas to get out of her way. The passenger gives me the full blown out the window finger. He flipped me off because his wife couldn't drive. GREAT.

heheh been there, done that... I get it every day on I-5 coming thru irvine... Some guy will throw his turn signal on, I give them PLENTY of room to come over.. the don't, the signal stays on for 20-30 seconds... I start to speed up (to my original speed) then, as soon as I do, the guy will fly into my lane and cut me off, I lay on the horn, he flips me off... damn uncourteous drivers.

Another one I liek is the double turn lane off the freeway... there are 2 lanes turning right off the freeway onto the surface street. I always get in the farthest to the left, meaning I should turn into the second lane. Well wouldn;t you know... the A-hole next to me, thinks he can turn into any lane, and proceeds to turn into mine, cutting me off, and nearly taking the front of my car off... and this happens nearly EVERY day...

jeff

I've always just been an agry driver. I've mellowed recently, I just have high standards for people driving. My car had the "f*** you. die." sticker on it and lots of other fun ones. I think my big change now is if I see a cyclist I'll do some blocking for him and get behind him till all the idiots have passed. I still flick people off and honk, but I'm no longer actually angry. I just don't care, but I know it bugs the **** out of some of these people to get called on being stupid. Eh, skrew it.

It is amazing how many people can't really handle an automobile. Having a drivers license has nothing to do with it. I agree that getting a drivers license should be a lot more like getting a pilots license. Oh, you don't understand basic physics? Sorry, no license for you. You don't know how to recover from a skid, and can't prove it? No license. Can't change a tire? No. Under-steer, over-steer, trailing throttle over-steer, threshold braking???? NO. Go study, come back later.

If you are in the left lane AT ANY SPEED and a car comes up behind you, you should, and are legally required to, move into the right lane. If you do not understand that, you need to read your state drivers manual.


First of all not everyone can control a car very well in a skid situation. Why? Every skid situation is differant. Plus those that can actually do it in a testing enviroment where there are no other cars on the road may not be able to do it when it happens for real. Not only that there are many reasons for a vehicle skidding, from rain to oil to ice. I don't care what you say or think, but no one can control a vehicle on 100% ice covered roads, no matter how much training or testing they have done.

Not everyone is physically able to change a tire. The lug nuts hold a wheel on a vehicle very tightly for a good reason. Hell I sometimes can't break them loose. So are you saying if a pregnant woman has a flat and needs a tire change, but knows she can't do it should not have a license?

What the hell is trailing throttle over steer anyway? Never heard of it. I'm guessing you're a truck driver. Not that there is anything wrong with that, my father is an OTR driver. I'm proud of him & he's proud to work in that proffession.

I think your comment on people driving in the left lane having to change lanes because it is the law may be somewhat incorrect. Not all states have the so-called lane change laws.

One final question. Do your knuckles drag on the ground when you walk? I ask this because you seem to want to limit peoples ability to drive only if they meet your specifications. Even though you didn't specicially state it I took some of your comments to be against women.

Granted more needs to be done to teach people better driving skills. But let's be reasonable about it. Let's not make it so damn hard that only a select few are able to do it like you want to.

I think riding has altered my driving style, but it really varries quite a bit. Sometimes I'm as mellow as can be, not really giving a care if drivers don't signal, drive under the limit, etc. Other times I'm downright edgy. 5 under the limit and I start cursing them out. But around here, we definitely have some horrid drivers (paired with one of the worst traffic signal configurations I've ever driven in) that are a danger to both cars and pedestrians alike.

I think what avalanche said is right. people need to understand the basic physics of a car. Its a 3000lbs machine and in some cases when people dont full understand how to drive it could be a weapon. I dont think his post was directed at women. He simply stated a story about how a driver didnt know what he/she was doing and it happend to be a woman. Just because someone isnt physical able to change a tire doesnt mean they shouldnt know how. He didnt say anything about being physical able, he just said to "know how"...what are the basic steps. Changing a tire is a pretty basic ordeal on a car but if you cant do that then do you full understand how the car works and thus performs under any such condition. I think there DEFINETLY need to be some qualifications to driving a automobile. testing testing testing. Driving is NOT a right, its a priviledge. Also i think after a certain age, older people need to get retested. I cant COUNT how many times i have almost been hit by an older person driving.

Bottom line...driving is a PRIVILEGE!!! Also, I have given it up for a better lifestyle.

Why do I hate motorist/auto culture most of the time..They are selfish, homicidal nutcases...No respect for the rights of others. At least a goodly enough percentage to tarnish the rest.
Example...Yesterday, while commuting to work...I cross a busy intersection that share an on ramp with a interstate..A very busy one..I do not expect it possible at that hour to merge to a lane where a bike can procede through the intersection..
So I get off my bike..Hit the button to cross the pedestrian crossway..
One time out..Think they would stop for the cross sign for pedestrians to cross. One full cycle . NO...I press it again...
They have a red light...I have the white lite to cross the pedestrian crossway. Some stop when I exert my hand..THEY HAVE A RED LIGHt..Of course most states have right turn on red...
Some stop..TWo lanes allowed to have access to freeway..I hold out my hand for them to stop...Second lane, I hear screaching of brakes..Right in front of me..
I cross...SOme A$$ ho$$ yells get out of the way @@@...I give him the one finger solute.. SOmething should be done about these jerks...
I read pedestrains up in Los ANgeles have a similiar problem at regular cross walks..
Many pedestrians are killed each year, because motorists think right turn on red, means they NEVER have to stop...Ever...
I think that jerk deserved the salute...He came real close.
Other examples of their excesses..Watch a green arrow change to red for a left hand turn at an intersection...It might take 30 seconds for them to stop turning left on red. I see it every day..Where are the police when you need them.

Wow, you got some nutbars out there. We don't have anything close to that back here, even in NY City. Maybe you should move back East.

Brillig...I cross that intersection every time I commute. This is a rarity....Most often at that freeway interchange, their excess is they continue to move a long time after they get the red light...
Maybe the ceter right turn lane, can't see a pedestrain..But, I doubt it.
Exceeding length of green arrow. That happens all the time..I notice motorists get fumed, fearing they might miss their green light.

If you are in the left lane AT ANY SPEED and a car comes up behind you, you should, and are legally required to, move into the right lane. If you do not understand that, you need to read your state drivers manual.


This is the law in parts of Europe. I think it is called something like "Drive Right". I do believe that it is just a matter of courtesy on Interstate Highways here. There are exceptions to this like exits on the left and such.

On surface streets no such rules apply, in fact because of the way boulevards are layed out here in Michigan, slower traffic making a left turn is forced to move through the intersection and then from right to left to complete a left turn. These are commonly know as "Michigan Lefts" here.

If you are traveling in one of the rightmost lanes and still being tailgated, the best solution is to modulate your speed slowly between the speed limit and about 5-10mph below the limit. Rather than constantly adjust their speed, most tailgaters will pass you on the left.

Dan

If you are in the left lane AT ANY SPEED and a car comes up behind you, you should, and are legally required to, move into the right lane. If you do not understand that, you need to read your state drivers manual.

If a driver going 65 in the left lane is blocking drivers who want to speed, both the blocker and the speeders are in the wrong. A cop has the right to pull either or both over. But the speeders don't have the right to gripe.

You don't have the right to complain that somebody else's lawbreaking stops you from lawbreaking.

There are also laws against tailgaiting...


Exactly. Of course there



are a million exceptions (like when you are in a steady stream of traffic, left lane exit ahead,etc.).

But what speed you are going is no excuse to be there. If you don't want to go any faster than the person next to you on the right and no one is holding you up from passing, then you should slow down and get behind the person next to you on the right.

It's a hard concept for a lot of people to grasp since it seems counterintuitive to speed limit laws. But make no mistake, in most states that have left lane passing laws you will get a ticket for being in the left lane and not passing even if both of you are going above the speed limit (even if neither of you get a speeding ticket).

Why? Because it's a safety issue. Studies have shown that traffic moves safer when it flows well. Speeding causes a slight increase in danger for driving, blocks in the traffic flow cause a huge increase in danger. Legislators and police departments have recognized that and are trying to make the roads safer.

And beyond that it's a courtesy issue. Why hold someone up for no reason? You are not there to enforce speed limit laws. You are there to obey the left lane passing laws. Nearly Everyone speeds and everyone has a different idea of what how much above the speed limit it is ok to speed at. Don't enforce your opinon on everyone else.

There are also laws against tailgaiting...

Yes.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=53067&page=1&pp=20#post482951

If a driver going 65 in the left lane is blocking drivers who want to speed, both the blocker and the speeders are in the wrong. A cop has the right to pull either or both over. But the speeders don't have the right to gripe.

You don't have the right to complain that somebody else's lawbreaking stops you from lawbreaking.


Since when is it your job to try to force laws on the people that want to go by you and get somewhere? If you are not a cop (and I don't feel they have any right to tell me what to do either) you have no business holding others up. You need to move right and get out of the way or stay off the road.

Too many laws and too many idiots trying to tell people what to do and how to live their life. More people should worry about themselves and leave the rest of the world alone. If I get a ticket, that's my problem don't you worry about it. Once again I say people should take responsibility for their OWN actions and leave the rest be. :)

Could be splitting hairs here..You are blocking a lane and already going somewhat over the legal speed limit..Somebody wants to pass at really obsessively speeds..Not sure where my sympathies are.

Since when is it your job to try to force laws on the people that want to go by you and get somewhere? If you are not a cop (and I don't feel they have any right to tell me what to do either) you have no business holding others up. You need to move right and get out of the way or stay off the road.

Too many laws and too many idiots trying to tell people what to do and how to live their life. More people should worry about themselves and leave the rest of the world alone. If I get a ticket, that's my problem don't you worry about it. Once again I say people should take responsibility for their OWN actions and leave the rest be. :)

Then we agree. Both the speeder and the blocker "should take responsibility for their OWN actions and leave the rest be":

The blocker should get out of the way. The speeder should slow down.

The person blocking the left lane has no right to complain about the honking speeder. The speeder doesn't have the right to whine about the blocker.

The blocker shouldn't be a cop by intentionally blocking the left lane. The speeder shouldn't be a cop by honking at or tailgating the blocker.

Blockers should look at how blocking traffic increases the risk to all. Speeders should look at how to make their own behavior safer (i.e., slow down) instead of whining about the faults of others.

I get people comming up behind me all the time and flashing their lights at me wanting me to move over. Trouble is, I'm in the carpool lane. Crossing the line is a minimum $271 fine. (I don't know where they came up with that figure) I just continue at the same speed. That really ticks them off.

I get people comming up behind me all the time and flashing their lights at me wanting me to move over. Trouble is, I'm in the carpool lane. Crossing the line is a minimum $271 fine. (I don't know where they came up with that figure) I just continue at the same speed. That really ticks them off.

The carpool lane should not be treated as another left lane. It is a limited access lane and it is not intended to be used for passing nor is it a "high speed lane". It is essentially a reward for vehicles filled to a greater capacity than just the sole driver. You should feel no compulsion to have to move over and let someone pass and you're right in that it may actually be illegal to do so. As far as the fine goes, I believe they start with some base round number and then add random fees to it. At some point, someone figured out (your tax dollars at work) that the cost to type up some form in some clerk's office cost something like $11 or something odd and as things get serially added along, you end up with a goofy numerical value for the fine.

I see it every day..Where are the police when you need them.

Well all I can say about this last statement is: It will take some pretty intrepid people to become volunteer "cadets" who take down license plate numbers of violators who clearly disrespect the rules of the roads because of their selfishness toward others. Of course, it will take quite some doing to get the cities to agree to such legislation. Also, there are now many major intersections here in Garden Grove that have cameras pointed strategically in order to capture images of vehicles speeding through them after a red light has appeared thus automatically proving the violation.

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated