Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - "Super compact" double gearing?

Hi all,

Does anyone know if you can get a chainring smaller than 34 teeth onto a (currently available) double crankset?

I'm thinking of getting a Salsa Casseroll built up as a compact double and would like low gears. If I could get it to work, I was thinking of something like 48-32 or 46-30 with 11-28 at the back. Yes I could go 11-34 at the back, but would prefer the smaller chainrings and closer gear ratios. 50 or 53 and 12-25 is too high for me, I get bad chainlines and also end up shifting at the front a lot.

The other option is a triple, which I'll do if I can't get a double to work... but I'd really like a "super-compact" double...

it looks like Velo Orange will soon be importing a new model Sugino wide range double crank to the USA. http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2009/03/taipei-cycle-show-update-3.html
Otherwise, you could use TA chainrings on a current MTB crankset (not 110/74) to get the same gearing.
http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/composants_gb.htm

For what it's worth: If you want the narrower spacing and really want to go low, I say go for the triple.

If it helps, I find that bar-end shifters work pretty well with triples. It's a little less fussy than STI, very rugged, and you have the option to use friction shifting if the indexing goes off and you don't have the time to fix it.

fwiw on my Casseroll I have a 'double' with 26 and 38 teeth using STI (11-27 cassette). I like to be able to ride up really steep streets, and there are plenty here in SF. I made it out of a triple with a bash gaurd in place of the large chainring. I adjusted the set screw in the FD to limit shifting past the middle 38 ring. works great.

I run 28 and 46 tooth chainrings as a "super compact" double set-up on my road/racing bike. Paired with a 10-speed 11-26 cassette, it gives me all the gear range I need, with pretty close spacing (although I sometimes wish I had an eleventh cog with 16 teeth), and a minimal amount of front shifting. The crankset to use is certainly an issue, and that new Sugino model at Velo Orange, linked to by LWaB, looks ideal. At the moment I'm using the inner and middle positions on a 130/74 BCD triple crankset. I use a chain guide from Jtek (http://jtekengineering.com/dropstop.htm) that mounts inside the BB cup to prevent chain drop and improve chainline at the same time. However, the chainline and Q-factor may both be improved by using the dedicated 110/74 BCD double that Sugino will soon be offering.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. That Sugino 110/74 sounds like what I need.

Definitely STI for this bike; if I end up with a triple, I'll go a trekking crankset (48-36-24) and narrower cassette at the back.

I'm running a TA Carmina with 94 BCD.
Currently set up @ 32/46 and a 13-29 or 13-26 Campy on the rear.
Love it.
Have pairs of rings from 30/44 32/46 32/48 34/48 and 34/50 to tune the gearing.
Been riding in the 32/46 for just over a year now.
I'll put the 30/44 combo on for the Endless Mountains 1240 and D2R2.

Maybe look at some of the Race Face cranks...Like the Atlas model.

In response to the suggestion of using a Race Face crankset: There are a few mountain bike cranksets now available that are designed for a '2x9' setup for lightweight cross-country riding. Unfortunately, many of these have the wrong chainline for a road bike and also often have a bigger Q-factor than would be ideal. The TA Carmina is certainly one good option.

In response to the suggestion of using a Race Face crankset: ...many of these have the wrong chainline for a road bike and also often have a bigger Q-factor than would be ideal...


Not sure that Q, within reason, is a real-world concern (maybe some are sensitive but most don't know what it is) and the chainline can be adjusted. Our family has two Race Face triple cranks (one is on a Casseroll) and Q and chainline are not problems. The Deus XC will even shift with a Shimano STI Triple brifter using a 105 front derailleure. Don't know about the Atlas triple since I use friction downtube shifters for it.

Here's another suggestion from the cross country world: The Race Face Cadence CX which is a double crank. Has 110 BCD and a chainline that can be varied. Advertised as a "Low Q-Factor" but I can't determine the precise amount. Some of their triples have a chainline in the sub 50mm range with 6mm of adjustment so presumably this double will be good in that regard. (That's why I'm suggesting looking at Race Face.) Comes standard as a compact with 48/36 or 46/36 but there is a selection of alternate chainrings.

Not sure you could get below 34T with 110BCD, though. That's why you might need to adapt one of their triples (like the Deuss)...Often, in CX, the outer ring gets replaced with a bash-guard leaving just a double with ultra-low gearing.

The OP has a good idea and I am curious as to the outcome. He is looking for something non-standard so one needs to experiment with an open mind...That's how I have discovered that some of the above combinations will work reliably over the course of many miles...It also helps to have a good relationship with an inquisitive/cooperative bike store. :)

I'll add two "Super Compact" double to the thread

White Industries has this Crank: http://www.whiteind.com/cranks/roadcranks.html

The VBC, variable bolt circle, crank set is both an elegant and durable addition to your road bike. The crank set is designed as a traditional double ring crank set, however, it can also be paired with one of our single speed chain rings and be set up as a single. The crank is designed with a low Q factor, 142mm, that allows the arms to sit close to the chain stays effectively giving one more direct power transfer into each pedal stroke. The outer ring is innovative in design with a splined ring interfacing to the crank set. Engineered into the ring design is an elongated five window design that replaces the traditional chain ring bolt circle. The windows are ingeniously unique and versatile allowing the inner ring to self center without being confined to a specific bolt circle. The chain rings are machined out of 7075, hard black anodized, and ramped and pinned for maximum shifting efficiency. Made in the USA.


Drive Train Crank Size Inner Ring Outer Ring Weight
Finish
Taper Interface Chain requirement
VBC 165mm, 170mm,
172.5mm, 175mm 24t,26t,28t,30t,
32t,34t,36t,38t 38t,40t,42t,44t,
46t,48t,50t,52t 655 grams Arms: polish silver, black ano
Rings: Hard black ano


Sram now has the XX MTB crank: http://www.sram.com/en/XX/products/crank.php

WEIGHT: 694g (BB30),
754g (GXP w/ BB)
CHAINLINE: 49.5
CHAINRING MATERIAL: AL-7075-T651
CHAINRING COLOR: Tungsten gray and silver
CHAINRING BOLTS: AL-7075-T6
CRANK-ARM MATERIALS: Integrated carbon composite/aluminum spider construction
COMPATIBILITY CHAIN: Optimized for SRAM PC 1090 or PC 1090R
CRANK-ARM LENGTH OPTIONS: 170mm and 175mm
CHAINRING OPTIONS: 26-39 (120/80 BCD), 28-42 (120/80 BCD), 30-45 (120/80 BCD)
BOTTOM BRACKET OPTIONS: GXP, PressFit GXP, BB30, and PressFit 30

How about the crank from the new SRAM 2x10 MTB system?

How about the crank from the new SRAM 2x10 MTB system?

I was interested in that groupset until I started looking at the prices - crank, derailleurs, shfiters, cassette, chain, bottom bracket lists for $1800 or so.

It would be potentially worth the $$ pain if you could just get the crank ($450 by itself) and use less pricey stuff for all the other drivetrain components, but not sure whether the crank could be mixed in with one's existing parts or less pricey parts from Shimano or SRAM.

BTW, there is another frequent BF poster named "nun" who posts frequently in touring. He has a 42 x 26 double set up made from a 110-74 BCD triple, as suggested above. Several nice photos of his bike on the touring forum, and there are links in some of his threads back to a blog he's written + his touring journals at crazyguyonabike.

The Sram XX Crank should work with Shimano chains. At $4XX.XX, it's pricey, but a Sram road bike CF cranks are also pricey.

The Sram XX 11-32 10 speed cassette should also work with Shimano 10 speed brifters if a Shimano XT MTD RD is used.

Michael

that White VBC crank is slick... better start saving my pennies

that White VBC crank is slick... better start saving my pennies

Yes, it looks like most, if not all, of these will cost $400+, BB included.

I dislike the standard compact road doubles but I'd be willing to give up my triple for a 28-42 or 30-45.

33T 110 BCD smallest I've seen:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/chainrings.asp

I ended up building a custom rear cassette 12,14,16,18,21,26,28,30 with a 50/34 front. I'm going down to a 46 so I don't have such a big jump between rings. I still find myself looking for a lower gear on those long climbs with loaded bags, I just don't have the $$$ for a new brifter, ft. derailuer, and triple crank set.

Another option;

FSA K-Force Light 386 Crankset
Monocoque carbon crankset with hollow arm design
Graphics match other K-Force products
Arm Length: 170, 175mm
Rings: 27-40
Crank/FD Type: Mountain Double
BB Thread Type: English
Spindle Interface Type: MegaExo Light
BB Shell Width: 68/73
Bolt Pattern: 3-Bolt
Chainring BCD: 86
Chain Compatibility: 9-Speed
Pedal Spindle: 9/16"


http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=32399

A few years ago I bought a used 5-arm 94/58 BCD triple and found some Ritchey 2x9 44/29 rings and put those on. Left off the granny and used a shorter BB for good chainline as a double.

Hi all,

Does anyone know if you can get a chainring smaller than 34 teeth onto a (currently available) double crankset?

I'm thinking of getting a Salsa Casseroll built up as a compact double and would like low gears. If I could get it to work, I was thinking of something like 48-32 or 46-30 with 11-28 at the back. Yes I could go 11-34 at the back, but would prefer the smaller chainrings and closer gear ratios. 50 or 53 and 12-25 is too high for me, I get bad chainlines and also end up shifting at the front a lot.

The other option is a triple, which I'll do if I can't get a double to work... but I'd really like a "super-compact" double...

how about a 29er MTB?
and yes, it would take road tyres...

how about a 29er MTB?
and yes, it would take road tyres...

OK, but why? Buying an MTB to get lower gears is about like buying a Hummer because your driveway is gravel.

SP
Bend, OR

how about a 29er MTB?
and yes, it would take road tyres...

i'm eyeing the salsa fargo as my next adventure / all road / rando / whatever platform.
not a fan of dics... but the fact i can swap to another wheel set with wiiiiiiide tires (knobbies, slicks, whatever) is a huge draw.

OK, but why? Buying an MTB to get lower gears is about like buying a Hummer because your driveway is gravel.

SP
Bend, OR

Humbug Mtn Campgrounds to Elk Prairie Campgrounds, 113 miles, 7:17hrs

next day ride to Arcata, after riding along the coast trail

that saturday.... 12hrs of Humboldt, 3rd place, 12 laps, 92 miles, over 16,000ft of climbing

i know my road bike is pretty fast

i'm eyeing the salsa fargo as my next adventure / all road / rando / whatever platform.
not a fan of dics... but the fact i can swap to another wheel set with wiiiiiiide tires (knobbies, slicks, whatever) is a huge draw.

a basic MTB move, is braking and shifting at the same time.
i.e. going down something steep, then transition into a steep climb.

that is a very basic necessity, in an MTB...
personally i like to be able to brake and shift at the same time.

raccoon comes along in the night, climbs over all kinds of things, your bike falls over...
maybe its got a bunch of stuff loaded up on it...
maybe when it falls over... breaks a bar end shifter

personally
my basic notion is that a bike should be clean
that is...
it should be fashioned in such a way, that it receives "glancing blows"
that is...
when it falls over
when it brushes across, brush
nothing snags
nothing is sticking out
shearing forces are reduced
no reason to simply stick anything out, and hope that it doesn't get caught.

all cables should be from the top down
all cables should be fully housed

personally
i don't like breaking shift levers, and filling up derailleur housing with mud... only from the simple act of riding the bike.
i plan for the bike to fall, and to be crashed, and to be picked up and keep going.

for me, my typical crash, is going too fast and loosing the front wheel
which is typically when i transition from pave to dirt fire road, and i'm too lazy to stop and reduce psi, an hour later, I find myself sliding the front wheel

any of that stuff...
if it touches the ground with your weight and at any speed, hopefully nothing shears off
or worse yet, hopefully nothing breaks off and goes into your body
the last thing i want, is to impale myself against something like a broken off bar end shifter

lastly... geometry
personally, i prefer angles more akin to a road bike/MTB, i like to stand up when i want, etc..
i like a high BB
i like to be able to bunny hop a curb
and i like the bike to transition onto the pave, and have a road bike feel
i like it when you can pull a bike over onto its side

I'm not a big fan of overtly relaxed head tube angles.

those are my personal preferences... and big brakes

OK, but why? Buying an MTB to get lower gears is about like buying a Hummer because your driveway is gravel.

SP
Bend, OR

oh ya.... almost forgot
and did The Eastern Sierra Double in 13:55hrs, on a set of WTB Vulpines 2.1"
so 44x11t shod in 29x2.1" is about the same as
53x12t shod in 700x23c
coming in at about 116 gear inches

on a rigid 29er
using standard MTB gearing, with an 11-32t cogset
so of course the 22x32t combo... is pretty darn low
and the 44x11t combo is fairly high.

the big difference of course is inertia

but even that can be addressed by changing tyres
however, the smaller the tyre
i.e. 23c
the smaller the gear inch

so a 23c tyre with 44x11t gearing on a 29er MTB
is still only using a 44t chainring... its nothing close to the 53t

but...
the difference, is that there is a ton of gear to choose from

from PDX to Ventura, Ca
I used a set of Schwalbe Marathon Cross in 38c
those tyres rock
fast on the pave
and good enough for a 12hr MTB race.

personally i think 29ers are awesome.
but i use mine mostly on the pavement, some dirt <---- not hardcore MTB, all mountain type of riding, and i use it for touring too. ultimately I'd like to try The Great Divide Race.

a basic MTB move, is braking and shifting at the same time.
i.e. going down something steep, then transition into a steep climb.

that is a very basic necessity, in an MTB...
personally i like to be able to brake and shift at the same time.

raccoon comes along in the night, climbs over all kinds of things, your bike falls over...
maybe its got a bunch of stuff loaded up on it...
maybe when it falls over... breaks a bar end shifter

personally
my basic notion is that a bike should be clean
that is...
it should be fashioned in such a way, that it receives "glancing blows"
that is...
when it falls over
when it brushes across, brush
nothing snags
nothing is sticking out
shearing forces are reduced
no reason to simply stick anything out, and hope that it doesn't get caught.

all cables should be from the top down
all cables should be fully housed

personally
i don't like breaking shift levers, and filling up derailleur housing with mud... only from the simple act of riding the bike.
i plan for the bike to fall, and to be crashed, and to be picked up and keep going.

for me, my typical crash, is going too fast and loosing the front wheel
which is typically when i transition from pave to dirt fire road, and i'm too lazy to stop and reduce psi, an hour later, I find myself sliding the front wheel

any of that stuff...
if it touches the ground with your weight and at any speed, hopefully nothing shears off
or worse yet, hopefully nothing breaks off and goes into your body
the last thing i want, is to impale myself against something like a broken off bar end shifter

lastly... geometry
personally, i prefer angles more akin to a road bike/MTB, i like to stand up when i want, etc..
i like a high BB
i like to be able to bunny hop a curb
and i like the bike to transition onto the pave, and have a road bike feel
i like it when you can pull a bike over onto its side

I'm not a big fan of overtly relaxed head tube angles.

those are my personal preferences... and big brakes

you lost me there.
you hate the salsa fargo?
you agree with the discs but not with the bar ends?
you hate the geometry?
you love it?

wha?

edit - and if i go geared it would probably be ergo / sti or downtube. but considering it as a ss / fg build - clean as can be, no?.

and i use it for touring too. ultimately I'd like to try The Great Divide Race.


looking at that for my 40th birthday. ;)
probably not to 'race' with the leaders... but to be out there doing it same time.

you lost me there.
you hate the salsa fargo?
you agree with the discs but not with the bar ends?
you hate the geometry?
you love it?

wha?

edit - and if i go geared it would probably be ergo / sti or downtube. but considering it as a ss / fg build - clean as can be, no?.

i think the fargo is a good idea
discs are awesome! bring at least 1 extra set of pads.
not a big fan of the fargo geometry
love it?
hate it?

personally I'd opt for something like a KM
and bag it in the same fashion as my Hunter... in GDR fashion, that is...

looking at that for my 40th birthday. ;)
probably not to 'race' with the leaders... but to be out there doing it same time.

I'll be 41 this winter
GDR is in June (i think), i have the exact same notion. if i could even finish it, I'd be amazed.
some of those guys are crossing in around 17 days!

I'll be 41 this winter
GDR is in June (i think), i have the exact same notion. if i could even finish it, I'd be amazed.
some of those guys are crossing in around 17 days!

i have a few more years to plan / train / etc.
mapping out a plan with the wife to do it... need to stage work, time off (i'm self employed), family time, etc.

much like targeting a rando event, except remote, harder to get to and from, and i'll be in little contact for a much longer period of time.

i think the fargo is a good idea
discs are awesome! bring at least 1 extra set of pads.
not a big fan of the fargo geometry
love it?
hate it?

personally I'd opt for something like a KM
and bag it in the same fashion as my Hunter... in GDR fashion, that is...

ok.

following now.
haven't studied yet how mtb geometry will affect ride. been using a surly crosscheck fixed to play in the dirt. too high top tube (no standover for bailout, foot down, etc) and too high center of gravity for my liking for longer dirt rides.

km does look interesting. will probably build up a 29r so i can use parts from my crosscheck.

ok.

following now.
haven't studied yet how mtb geometry will affect ride. been using a surly crosscheck fixed to play in the dirt. too high top tube (no standover for bailout, foot down, etc) and too high center of gravity for my liking for longer dirt rides.

km does look interesting. will probably build up a 29r so i can use parts from my crosscheck.

last year i had seen the fargo at Sea Otter
i have not ever put in any distance on that bike
i own a Pug and a Big Dummy
the Pug i rode for 2yrs straight
the Dummy is about 1.5yrs

The Hunter, obviously has 2 top tubes
laffs!
cuz i don't want to buckle a bike
its also rigid
which gives me plenty of feed back when I'm smashing thru stuff too fast
or have lost my rhythm, and have found the bottoms of all the bumps, rather than riding the tops.
so in a bass akward way, its a safety limiter... that is... when i ride it hard enough in the dirt, it starts to hurt, and thats the time to back off a bit. which happens to be the "keep it safe, I'm riding solo, out in the boonies... safety measure."

i would think of a KM with H bars
i'm 165lbs, and i use a MAVIC SpeedCity wheelset.
the wheelset goes for about $430 MSRP
i've been using the rear wheel for about 5yrs now

i don't own a car for about 6 or 7 years now.
i ride my bikes a ton
about 1500 miles a month

Speedcitys are good wheels.

Well after a long long time I'm back...

bmike, nun and devo (Asana) thanks for you input.

I've decided to try the VeloOrange 50.4 bcd crankset with 46 and 30 chainrings, along with the 11-28 cassette on the Masi Speciale CX I've just bought (won't post pics until I've done at least a metric on it!)

Planning to get some Velocity A23 wheels but might just start by putting some 23mm training tyres on the existing wheels to see how it goes.

The bike is a replacement for my tourer, 56cm vs Medium Cannondale frame so hopefully the fit will be right with a bit of tweaking.

FWIW.. i run a similar setup on a masi speciale randonneur. i wasn't fond of the giant jumps between gears with a compact, so i swapped out my 50 (on a 50/34) with a 44t and kept my 11/25 10 speed cassette. totally tickled with it, as it caters more to a nice flexible mid-range where i spin than either end of the spectrum. i never really need a hundred + inch gears anyhow-- but i don't need a bailout all that much either, and i don't really ride with a lot of stuff. it looks a little like a CX crank.. but doing the math, it's as flexible as i need from 36- 108 inches.

Sounds like an attempt to solve a low gear problem by creating high gear problems.

If you are a big guy- or using a big load - then you need a "big" set of gears -give up the idea of a double solving problems. If you only need the wide range occasionally - then get it by using a cassette, not a chain ring.

Sounds like an attempt to solve a low gear problem by creating high gear problems.

If you are a big guy- or using a big load - then you need a "big" set of gears -give up the idea of a double solving problems. If you only need the wide range occasionally - then get it by using a cassette, not a chain ring.

sorry if you're not talking to me, richard-- but that seems a strange reply using a strangely untethered idea of 'big'. what do you mean by creating 'high gear problems'?

personally-- i've found that having closer toothed cassettes (e.g. 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25) and closer chainrings (i.e. 42/52, or in this case 34/44) allows me to dial in a better spinning speed, and the wider cassettes create larger gaps making bigger leaps in cadence. a 44/11 is as big as a 52/15. i don't even recall the last i even USED my 11 sprocket other than as a place to shift to while removing my rear wheel :D. but a 44/12 or 13 or even a 14 is still pretty tough to spin out on downhills. when i had a 50.. i just never used my big ring, which seems to invalidate having it.

sorry if you're not talking to me, richard-- but that seems a strange reply using a strangely untethered idea of 'big'. what do you mean by creating 'high gear problems'?

personally-- i've found that having closer toothed cassettes (e.g. 12/13/14/15/16/17/19/21/23/25) and closer chainrings (i.e. 42/52, or in this case 34/44) allows me to dial in a better spinning speed, and the wider cassettes create larger gaps making bigger leaps in cadence. a 44/11 is as big as a 52/15. i don't even recall the last i even USED my 11 sprocket other than as a place to shift to while removing my rear wheel :D. but a 44/12 or 13 or even a 14 is still pretty tough to spin out on downhills. when i had a 50.. i just never used my big ring, which seems to invalidate having it.

if you are racing downhill or time trialing, sure, have at it.

i'm personally a fan of using a 30/44 30/46 or 32/46 and running a 13-26 or 13-29 out back.
i live in an area of the country with lots of up and down.

34 / 50 found me shifting a lot.
32/46 is great for shorter events.
30/46 or 44 is great for 300k+

i'd qualify as a big guy. not sure what a 'big' set of gears is. even with a triple - you end up with lots of combos that overlap or are very close together.
if i were touring, i might consider a lower inner ring (and need a new crank...) but for rando and general (non racing) riding - my setup works well, for me.

There is no such thing as the perfect gearing that is going to work for everyone. There are just too many variables involved. I have a box of cassettes and chainrings that I use to swap in and out for whatever event I'm doing. I also have bikes with both a compact and standard double as well as my main bike with a triple on it. I prefer the triple because it does give me the option of having a wider range at a very minor weight penalty.

BTW, I really love my 60-11 gear and I don't have to be going down hill to use it...

I don't need the 50x11 and 50x12. 46- or 48x11 should be fine.
34x28 is OK for my regular rides but won't be enough for longer hillier rides.
The spacing on an 11-34 cassette is wider than I like.

So basically I'm going to try something similar to a wide range road triple but without the biggest ring. That's enough for me at my current weight (92kg) and level of fitness. I anticipate spending 90% of the time in the big ring, and if I'm wrong I change to 48-32 rings or back to the 50-34 crankset.

See? Well thought out, and fixing low-gear problems without worrying about non-existent high end problems! ;)

BTW, I really love my 60-11 gear and I don't have to be going down hill to use it...

So I'm still unclear on this. Are you trying to tell us that you cruise the flats at 38 MPH during your distance rides, or that you just like to ride around at 40 RPM?

So I'm still unclear on this. Are you trying to tell us that you cruise the flats at 38 MPH during your distance rides, or that you just like to ride around at 40 RPM?

All I know is that he completed the RAAM in less than 7 days riding a tandem on a relay team.

So I'm still unclear on this. Are you trying to tell us that you cruise the flats at 38 MPH during your distance rides, or that you just like to ride around at 40 RPM?

Yeah, I'm a bit of a masher. Some people forget that not everyone spins like a blender and smaller gears are not helpful for them. I also use that gear for recovery in the flats, I can lope along and still keep my speed up. I most especially love that gear for long 1-2% descents that you have out in the western deserts. 20+ miles at 35-40+mph is a blast! btw, we averaged 29.8 mph across Kansas...yeah, I'm in that gear a lot.

We'll go riding some day Six Jours, you can watch me. :)

There's no way we could ride together. I've never been fast enough to keep up with you. Even when I was racing on a pro license I couldn't maintain 40+ MPH on a flat road.

If you spend some time at ultra races you'll see that 55-60T sprockets are very common. Shana Hogan used one (in her 5 solo RAAM wins). She's a she and can turn that gear, don't see why you can't. ;) btw, I don't go anywhere near 40mph on flat roads unless I have a really good tailwind. Ultra distance racing is a completely different animal compared to roadracing... For long distances, the ability to put it in a big gear and lope along at an easy rpm is very important for many riders so they can recover and sustain speed over long distances. You're not going to see that on a stage race. When we race a team race, like we do in RAAM, we are riding 30 minute time trials and we are pushing that gear. When you held your Pro license how many TT's did you do? Depending on the terrain you'll see lots of pro's running it. Just because it's a gear you don't use doesn't make it valid for other people which is my point.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a masher. Some people forget that not everyone spins like a blender and smaller gears are not helpful for them. I also use that gear for recovery in the flats, I can lope along and still keep my speed up. I most especially love that gear for long 1-2% descents that you have out in the western deserts. 20+ miles at 35-40+mph is a blast! btw, we averaged 29.8 mph across Kansas...yeah, I'm in that gear a lot.

We'll go riding some day Six Jours, you can watch me. :)

damn. flies in the face of everything I've ever learned about not abusing one's knees, but i reckon if it works for you! i know i'd smell cartilage burning if i tried that :D

damn. flies in the face of everything I've ever learned about not abusing one's knees, but i reckon if it works for you! i know i'd smell cartilage burning if i tried that :D

It's not that simple. Not everyone is designed to spin like a blender and there is a big difference between cruising in the flats at a slow rpm and trying to climb a mountain at a slow rpm. My cadence varies significantly on an ultra depending on what and where I'm doing it.

When you held your Pro license how many TT's did you do? Depending on the terrain you'll see lots of pro's running it. Just because it's a gear you don't use doesn't make it valid for other people which is my point.

No more than I had to! Mostly in stage races. At that time, "standard" top gear was a 52 or 53 x 13. The 12 was just coming into vogue when I retired, and the 11 was unheard of. For a flat time trial you'd just stick it in the 52x13 or 14 and do your best to carry it it, only dropping to the 15 if you were having a bad day. The hour record was normally contested in a gear that allowed about 100 rpm (still is today, for that matter) which ended up being in the same neighborhood (Merckx used a 52x14 in Mexico City, for instance.)

But you're right: I don't know anything about ultra distance racing. If rolling around at 50 RPM is what gets it done there, I can't argue otherwise. All I can say is that the only time I used a 60 ring was in motorpaced events on the track, where we averaged 50 MPH.

There is no way I could stay with a pace car at 50mph, that'd be something like 120rpm. I just can't spin that fast. 90rpm is much more in my comfort zone. Like I said, we could probably easily ride together, you'd just be spinning about twice the RPM I do.

Gearing is a very individual thing and there are a lot of variables involved that you have to take into account.

it looks like Velo Orange will soon be importing a new model Sugino wide range double crank to the USA. http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2009/03/taipei-cycle-show-update-3.html
Otherwise, you could use TA chainrings on a current MTB crankset (not 110/74) to get the same gearing.
http://www.specialites-ta.com/produits/composants_gb.htm

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/cranksets/vo-polyvalent-crankset.html

Looks like it's just a 110/74 triple without a big ring. VO put a bash gaurd on the big ring.