Commuting - Has anyone else been doored? (i.e. hit by a car door)

Well, I've heard about it from other riders, but today it finally happened to me: I was riding along the shoulder (a designated bike lane) when suddenly a front passenger door of a car opened. I had no time to react, so I slammed into the open door with by front wheel.

Fortuantely, I wasn't going all that fast, so there was no major damage to my bike or person. My right thigh hit the handle bar, and my front wheel is a little wobbly, but no major damage. It scared the living fukk out of me :eek: Has anyone else had this experience?

How about "Trunked"? When I was 12 Y.O. a fat man in a new Cadillac convertible passed me then pulled over & stopped to make a right turn. Since I was looking back at my friend when he did this, I rode into the back of his car at a pretty good clip. Ended up on his trunk lid (almost in the back seat). Scared me to death & there was a lot of yelling to the effect of *&$!Stupid@$$* kid! I Got back on my bike & wobbled off as fast as I could. Don

How about "Trunked"? When I was 12 Y.O. a fat man in a new Cadillac convertible passed me then pulled over & stopped to make a right turn. Since I was looking back at my friend when he did this, I rode into the back of his car at a pretty good clip. Ended up on his trunk lid (almost in the back seat). Scared me to death & there was a lot of yelling to the effect of *&$!Stupid@$$* kid! I Got back on my bike & wobbled off as fast as I could. Don

Yeah that sucks, but not to diminish what happened, that really was your fault. This a-hole, just wasn't paying any attention, suddenly opened the door, and "splat". I suppose it was bound to happen eventually.

Well, I've heard about it from other riders, but today it finally happened to me: I was riding along the shoulder (a designated bike lane) when suddenly a front passenger door of a car opened. I had no time to react, so I slammed into the open door with by front wheel.

Fortuantely, I wasn't going all that fast, so there was no major damage to my bike or person. My right thigh hit the handle bar, and my front wheel is a little wobbly, but no major damage. It scared the living fukk out of me :eek: Has anyone else had this experience?


I was just discussing this post with my roomate. Say there was damage to your bike, and your bike whether its comlete shyte or say somethign lieka snazed up cannodale, what happens? Are you out of luck. Is it worth it to be insured? Or if its the other persons fault, do they pay? esp, if you have evidence of the value of your bike? Anyone with input on this one? If no one replies ehre, I'll post this as a separate question or discussion.
C

I haven't had that happened to me personally, but I had have a car make a right turn into a driveway of a parking lot right in front of me. I was riding along at a good pace when all of a sudden as I passed an intersection and a driveway was coming up this car made a right turn right when I was in the path. I hit the passenger door and rolled off the car. There were a lot of witnesses that were yelling at the driver telling him of his idiotic driving. I was alright and my bike just needed a rim true that was it. So I let it go at that.

I had the same thing happen a few years ago.. I was riding down the street and had a front driverside door open right in front of me... I hit the door hard, bent it forward about 2 feet. I went over the top of the door and landed in the street.. My bike a Hardrock ended up with a really bent out of shape front wheel. I had a couple of cracked ribs... Anyway the guy was threatening to sue me etc for hitting his car.. About two days later his insurance company called me and offered me a couple of thousand to sign a release and offered to pay for all repairs to my bike... They appoliized for there client and the threats he was making... Said he didn't understand
the law.. Bike and I ended up better then new....

The police were involved right? And filed a report of their own? Did you hae insurnace of your own?

I've never been doored, but I've had a few people make some quite deliberate attempts over the years. The only realistic way to avoid it is to ride sufficiently wide of parked cars for it to be impossible. This is exactly what I do, and have done for over 100,000km.

The done time I was doored, the driver started yelling at me till I mentioned the words "cops", "liability", and "insurance", at which point he apologized, no harm done during that one. I've learned to look into the windows of cars and make a decision from there. Also, be prepared to throw yourself towards the car if you get doored to prevent yourself from falling into the flow of traffic, it might save your life.

Count me in. I almost managed to steer clear of a BMW door, but only almost. It hit me on the left pedal (I was passing on the right side, along a separated bike path, right next to the street). I did not have much speed but tumbled over anyway. I was OK, my bike was OK, but the door had a big dent on it, visible even from the outside (I am glad to report this). The woman who opened the door got so scared she stayed inside and closed the door, leaving her husband / boyfriend deal with it.

The guy got out from the car and started yelling about the dent. I pointed out to him that both he and his clueless companion could use a lesson in situational awareness: his car was parked on a no-parking, no-stopping zone, partially on a designated tram stop and she opened door directly to the passing bike lane, not looking over her shoulder to make sure there was no traffic on the lane. If a dent on a door was what they needed to learn this lesson, I was all too happy to deliver it. If they required additional information, I suggested we ask the police to come over and explain things really slow. There would be a reasonable lecturing fee involved, to be paid by Mr. My-BMW-Is-Wrecked.

The conversation pretty much ended there, except the lady opened her window a tiny bit and shouted "Sorry!" as I was leaving the scene. Sorry? Yeah, whatever.

--J

i get plenty of the driver pulls out of a parralell parking space right out in front of me. Fortunately I'm paranoid enough about that kind of thing that I start braking automatically when I see any car with people in it in a paralell parking spot.

The other I get are people trying to get onto the road nearly t-boning me while trying to just fly right out of parking lots....I also got used to the areas that will happen and slow down there too.

I'm seriously considering getting some kind of air horn for my bike.

How about "Trunked"? When I was 12 Y.O. a fat man in a new Cadillac convertible passed me then pulled over & stopped to make a right turn. Since I was looking back at my friend when he did this, I rode into the back of his car at a pretty good clip. Ended up on his trunk lid (almost in the back seat). Scared me to death & there was a lot of yelling to the effect of *&$!Stupid@$$* kid! I Got back on my bike & wobbled off as fast as I could. Don

Ahh yes... Trunked... I have a better one..

When I first got my first bike (without training-wheels), I was a youngster.. Hell I hardly have any memories from that time of the life..

So anyhoo, my parents kept telling me not to look away, always look infront of me. I was riding up and down the street, went to my friends and as I was leaving his mom said to keep my eyes ahead of me.
Well sure enough, as im about 20 feet from her house, I slam in the back of a PARKED car. I got a bloody nose and a bloody lip. As if that wasnt a hard-headed enough thing to do.. I wouldnt let my friends mom bring me to her house to clean her up, I walked my biked all the way home. :D

Boy I got tons of stories..

This is where all those years on a unicycle really help...
I had a door open on me, and using skills picked up from unicycling, managed to hit the door with my feet, instead of my bike.
Final Score:
Bike - No damage
Door - replaced

Yes thats right kids, I'm so old, we didn't have two wheels when I started biking.

How about "Trunked"? When I was 12 Y.O. a fat man in a new Cadillac convertible passed me then pulled over & stopped to make a right turn. Since I was looking back at my friend when he did this, I rode into the back of his car at a pretty good clip. Ended up on his trunk lid (almost in the back seat). Scared me to death & there was a lot of yelling to the effect of *&$!Stupid@$$* kid! I Got back on my bike & wobbled off as fast as I could. Don

When I was about the same age, I was riding my handmade Schwinn as fast as I could when a car stopped along the side of the road and opened the door abruptly. My handlebars slammed the door of the 78 Chevy Monte Carlo and sent me up and through the air, barely missing my buddy who was riding in front of me. I bounced all over the rode, and surprisingly didn't fracture my skull (a time before helmets were even a thought). The driver didn't even ask if I was alright--the SOB!

In Wisconsin, according to the rules of the road:

A bicyclist passing a stopped or moving vehicle is also requuired to give at least 3 feet of clearance when passing. [346.80(2)(c)]

In light of this, if you slam into an open car door I doubt very much if you could make a strong legal case, and you would probably get a citation if the police are involved.

As far as insurance goes, the last thing I would want to do is to file a claim with my insurance company for anything under a grand or two. If you do, you will likely pay it back many times over with higher insurance premiums...

Well, in my case, the driver agreed that he was an idiot, and we parted friends.
Thats an extremely generous rule for passing. I don't know how the roads look there, but there is no way you can give parked cars 3 feet of clearance here in Buffalo.

I was just discussing this post with my roomate. Say there was damage to your bike, and your bike whether its comlete shyte or say somethign lieka snazed up cannodale, what happens? Are you out of luck. Is it worth it to be insured? Or if its the other persons fault, do they pay? esp, if you have evidence of the value of your bike? Anyone with input on this one? If no one replies ehre, I'll post this as a separate question or discussion.
C

From the Minneapolis City Website (http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/citywork/public-works/transportation/bicycles/accidents.html).


Opening Car Doors
(approximately 5 percent of bicycle-related accidents)
Causes: Someone opens a parked car door in front of an overtaking bike. Typically, the motorist fails to check for traffic before emerging. This is, by the way, illegal and the collision is the motorists' fault.

How to avoid: Never ride closer than three feet to a parked car.

Thats an extremely generous rule for passing. I don't know how the roads look there, but there is no way you can give parked cars 3 feet of clearance here in Buffalo.

As John Forester of Efficient Cycling (http://www.johnforester.com) would point out, there are times when the cyclist must "take the lane". Overtaking automobile traffic must give 3 feet clearance when passing as well.

Although, I would agree that it is sometimes easier said than done :)

hehe, oh I take the lane, but you have to understand the conditions here.
Really really really lousy road surface
Narrow lanes, with lots of potholes tossed in.
more than our fair share of bad drivers.

Also, mostly commenting on my commute, which is busy suburban, where parking on the road is the norm.

Country riding is much easier of course.

In Wisconsin, according to the rules of the road:

A bicyclist passing a stopped or moving vehicle is also requuired to give at least 3 feet of clearance when passing. [346.80(2)(c)]

In light of this, if you slam into an open car door I doubt very much if you could make a strong legal case, and you would probably get a citation if the police are involved.

As far as insurance goes, the last thing I would want to do is to file a claim with my insurance company for anything under a grand or two. If you do, you will likely pay it back many times over with higher insurance premiums...

This is nonsense. If you file papers in small claims court against the motorist's insurance company, you can bet your life they will offer a cash award settelement. Furthermore, you can claim you were riding further than 3 feet from the car but extrenous circumstances (a bus) forced you a couple of inches closer. Can the motorist prove you were less than 3 feet form his car? NO. It's his word against yours and there is no insurance company out there will take this in front a jury. I estimate a jury trial of this nature in Manhattan would cost the insurance company 20 - 30 K in legal fees just to defend. Unless you were asking for a million dollars, no insurance company will even waste their time and simply pay cash ( a couple of grand) for your pain and suffering.

In New Jersey, we have "no fault" so the insurance of the driver must pay for ALL accidents with pedestrians. You're insane if you leave all bloody after an accident with a motor vehicle and not collect insurance information.

About 15 years ago, I was doored by a car. I filed papers in small claims court against the driver. The insurance company did NOT want to represent the motorist as legal fees would easily exceed the settlement. (Lawyers bill at hundreds per hour!) As a result, the insurance company gave me a tax free check in 1992 for $1,500.00 dollars (maybe a little more, I'm starting to forget)

Folks. Always and I mean always get the insurance information and call the police when an accident like this happens. File a police report right then and there. The original poster just lost a couple of grand (maybe more!) for his pain and suffering. It amazes me how may cyclists on this forum walk away from accidents with motorist all bloody and broken without filing a police report.

Carry a cell phone! PLEASE!

One of the basic rules when riding a bike on a street is to always ride at least a doors length away from a car. One should also look through car windows in cars that have recently parked because they may have a driver in it about to get out.

Our motor vehilcle act says:

When opening door prohibited
203 (1) A person must not open the door of a motor vehicle on the side available to moving traffic unless and until it is reasonably safe to do so.

(2) A person must not leave a door open on the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for longer than is necessary to load or unload passengers.

People still do this anyway, and cyclists get doored far too often. I have copies of newspaper stories in a dozen areas from around the world where cyclists have been killed from being "doored"

This is not a small problem.

In Ontario it is offense under the Highway Traffic Act to unsafely open a door.

In NYC, dooring is a violation of both local and state laws...
http://transalt.org/features/doored.html

-chris

i live in toronto, where they are tryign to make biking a total way of life downtown, I heard recently that we ahve a exteremly hefty fine for peopel that door prize cycilists.

I hear whatyoure saying with the whole ride 3 feet away from the door, which I do. Occasionally though, if anyone has read any of my other poss, this is where I encounter streetcars tracks. Occasioanlly, not very often but occasionally, I have to take my lane so centred that me and my thick knobby tires get stuck in the streetcar tracks, if I've had to take it suddenly and without the proper angle so as nott to. Its rather annoying. But I'd have to say my biggest fear is getting doorprized, having had a couple of courier friends with the scars to show.

As John Forester of Efficient Cycling (http://www.johnforester.com) would point out, there are times when the cyclist must "take the lane". Overtaking automobile traffic must give 3 feet clearance when passing as well.

Although, I would agree that it is sometimes easier said than done :)

man...when i take the lane people here just end up passing INTO oncoming traffic... and they nearly hit me in the process. i guess a person like that derserves to hit the oncoming trafic. but the poor oncoming traffic. i feel sorry for them. :(

In Wisconsin, according to the rules of the road:

A bicyclist passing a stopped or moving vehicle is also requuired to give at least 3 feet of clearance when passing. [346.80(2)(c)]

In light of this, if you slam into an open car door I doubt very much if you could make a strong legal case, and you would probably get a citation if the police are involved.

As far as insurance goes, the last thing I would want to do is to file a claim with my insurance company for anything under a grand or two. If you do, you will likely pay it back many times over with higher insurance premiums... This assumes, of course, that the "stopped or moving vehicle" is stopped or moving legally. A car stopped in a no-stopping zone isn't. Neither is a car of which the door occupies a bike lane. "Bike lane" means just that; no motorized vehicles or parts thereof, ever.

This assumes, of course, that the "stopped or moving vehicle" is stopped or moving legally. A car stopped in a no-stopping zone isn't. Neither is a car of which the door occupies a bike lane. "Bike lane" means just that; no motorized vehicles or parts thereof, ever.

You may be technically correct, but I'd rather be happy (and avoid the situation) than right...

This is nonsense.
No need to get all bent out of shape! I was just stating Wisconsin law.


.... Can the motorist prove you were less than 3 feet form his car? NO.
I think that if you were more than 3 feet away you wouldn't have been hit by the door...


In New Jersey, we have "no fault" so the insurance of the driver must pay for ALL accidents with pedestrians.
In Wisconsin, a bicyclist is not considered a pedestrian. It is defined as a vehicle.


About 15 years ago, I was doored by a car. I filed papers in small claims court against the driver. The insurance company did NOT want to represent the motorist as legal fees would easily exceed the settlement. (Lawyers bill at hundreds per hour!) As a result, the insurance company gave me a tax free check in 1992 for $1,500.00 dollars (maybe a little more, I'm starting to forget)
That's great, but it has been my experience that claims made against insurance tends to lead to increased premiums. So, if it's only a few hundred bucks, or even a grand or two, I wouldn't even let my insurance comapnay know about it. Taking it to small claims court is a very good recourse, however.

And I agree, filing a police report is always a good idea. in fact, it is required in Wisconsin if anyone got injured (even if they do not seek medical assistance), or if there was more than $1,000 of property damage.

Wow, great discussion! I must say I didn't expect to get this many responses. I agree that in most cases the law text and personnel (judges, attorneys, insurance adjusters, etc.) would favor the cyclist. The fact of the matter is that the cyclist is in a much more vulnerable position than the driver. The 3' law is sometimes impossible to follow, on narrow roads, or in heavy traffic for instance.

From a practical stand-point, it's usually easier for the driver and insurance company to just reach an amicable agreement with the cyclist. As several other posters have mentioned, lawyer fees, and the potential to loose several thousand dollars in court, it's usually easier for the driver or insurance company to just pay for bike damages, or a new bike, than to risk legal action.

If you're a litigious person, I'm sure you could make a few grand if you are doored (if you are seriously injured, you could make a few hundred grand), but I just want what's fair. If the driver and/or insurance company is willing to pay bike damage (or replacement), medical costs (if applicable), and other costs (missed work, etc.), that's enough for me.

You may be technically correct, but I'd rather be happy (and avoid the situation) than right... Then why quote WI law, as your original post did? The only way the originator of this thread could have "avoided the situation" would have been not to use the bike lane. Remember, this was an illegally stopped car, outside the bike lane, which then moved (even if only in part) into the bike lane.

Well, I've heard about it from other riders, but today it finally happened to me: I was riding along the shoulder (a designated bike lane) when suddenly a front passenger door of a car opened. I had no time to react, so I slammed into the open door with by front wheel.

Fortuantely, I wasn't going all that fast, so there was no major damage to my bike or person. My right thigh hit the handle bar, and my front wheel is a little wobbly, but no major damage. It scared the living fukk out of me :eek: Has anyone else had this experience?
Alan, first let me say that I'm sorry this happened to you. You deserve better.

Secondly, let me rant about poor "bike lane" design. Designing bike lanes that allow parking next to them makes about as much sense as allowing parking on a freeway shoulder. These "designers" cause deaths and injuries, plain and simple.

Then why quote WI law, as your original post did? The only way the originator of this thread could have "avoided the situation" would have been not to use the bike lane. Remember, this was an illegally stopped car, outside the bike lane, which then moved (even if only in part) into the bike lane.

My point was that I'm not going to worry if I am in the "legal right" and analyse whether a particular car is legally parked or not as I skim inches away from it at 20 mph. I think it is wise to give a minimum 3 foot clearance to all vehicles, legally parked or not.

Look, accidents happen. I am a professional commercial driver as well as a cyclist, and I do dumb things in motor vehicles just like everyone else does. And, believe or not, as a cyclist I do dumb things too. And I am not out of the ordinary in those aspects. But, I don't think you can successfully argue that getting into the habit of giving an adequate "safety margin" when riding or driving is bad advice. And if I choose to ignore recommended safety margins and smack into something, whose at fault? I could stomp my feet about the legality of the "park job", but since I had ample opportunity to see the situation and take steps to avoid it, but instead chose to pass too close, why would I blame the vehicle driver? (and, just to be clear, I am not referencing the original poster's situation with these comments, as I don't know the particulars).

Now granted there are numerous situations that cannot be seen in advance and would be impossible to avoid. And one or both parties could be to blame for those. And they should be handled in our legal system. But (gasp!) a parked car has doors that open, and everyone knows this. So I say, for me, I'm not going to be within 3 feet of a parked car, wherever and however it is parked, unless it is unavoidable. Even if I'm within a red-carpetted, ultra-secure, armed-guarded bike lane!

BTW, As a vehicle, bicycles are not required to use bike lanes unless posted otherwise. It is a false sense of security to think you are protected within the bike lane. Many studies have shown that bike lanes actually place the bicyclist in more danger than just using the traffic lanes. I would suggest the book "Efficient Cycling" if you'd like to obtain more background on this subject.

Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles.

I had the same thing happen a few years ago.. I was riding down the street and had a front driverside door open right in front of me... I hit the door hard, bent it forward about 2 feet. I went over the top of the door and landed in the street.. My bike a Hardrock ended up with a really bent out of shape front wheel. I had a couple of cracked ribs... Anyway the guy was threatening to sue me etc for hitting his car.. About two days later his insurance company called me and offered me a couple of thousand to sign a release and offered to pay for all repairs to my bike... They appoliized for there client and the threats he was making... Said he didn't understand
the law.. Bike and I ended up better then new....

About two days later his insurance company called me and offered me a couple of thousand to sign a release and offered to pay for all repairs to my bike...
The insurance company got off easy. 2 grand and bike repairs is nothing compared to the usual cost of a collision.

But I'm glad you got what was coming to you, Tourister (but not the dooring!)

In Wisconsin, according to the rules of the road:

A bicyclist passing a stopped or moving vehicle is also requuired to give at least 3 feet of clearance when passing. [346.80(2)(c)]

In light of this, if you slam into an open car door I doubt very much if you could make a strong legal case, and you would probably get a citation if the police are involved.

As far as insurance goes, the last thing I would want to do is to file a claim with my insurance company for anything under a grand or two. If you do, you will likely pay it back many times over with higher insurance premiums...

Most car doors stick out more than 3 feet when opened. We've been taught to ride about 6 feet out from cars. Somewhere in California's Motor Vehicle Code is a section that says that drivers are supposed to look for cyclists, pedestrians, and horses before opening their door.

Yep, happened to me nearly 20 years ago. I went over the door. She didn't appreciate me calling her a moron (I didn't swear much then). I was extremely paranoid about passing any parked cars after that.

I think that if you were more than 3 feet away you wouldn't have been hit by the door...


I got doored a few weeks back. I was approaching the Square here in Madison, climbing up a hill on my singlespeed-- going maybe 10mph. I was temporarily distracted by traffic exiting a parking ramp, making eye contact and making sure that the driver was gonna wait for me-- when a VW Golf swung its door out. I didn't have time to react. You'll remember that the Golf, like many 2-door cars, has quite a reach... I'd say it might even be greater than 3 ft.

My bars hit the edge of the door and I half-endo'ed, then fell to the side. My shoulder stopped the endo--got planted firmly into the pointy corner of the car door. Got a big scrape/bruise on my shoulder and some nice cherry red paint on my risers. Battle scars!

The driver was very nice and apologized, asked if I was okay, etc.


Far better than the last time I got hit-- where the driver knocked me over, drove off, and then gave me false information when chased down. If I ever find that prickface, the price of my wheel is coming out of his paint, key-style...



And I agree, filing a police report is always a good idea. in fact, it is required in Wisconsin if anyone got injured (even if they do not seek medical assistance), or if there was more than $1,000 of property damage.

And definitely get the license number (or even the driver's license number) as well. I settled for a name, phone number and apology from the almost-hit-and-run dude, and I got shafted.

I think I wanted to cry when I read this las tpost. I am so terrfiied about being doored, as disturbing as this sounds I kinda hope it happens to me soon, so then I know what to expect for myself. I can live with rational fear, rather then the what if....I feel liek I am constantly waiting for my first accident to happen.
Anyways,
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/bicycle_motor-vehicle/pdf/car-bike_collision_type6.pdf

This is a very interesting statistics thing that the City of Toronto did up. They have a whole slew of these on different accidents etc. I found it interesting, I read these when I first starting biking about 3 months ago.
heres the res of the stats they compiled:
http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/bicycle_motor-vehicle/index.htm

Dooring is and has always been my worst fear (especially when I picture my head going straight into the corner of the door - an active imagination has its downsides). And it happened to me in England. Twice.

Coming up to the station, the traffic is always chocka in the morning, so you get a lot of dolts who are getting lifts to the station just decide to jump out of the car while stopped in the traffic. And there's no way I could pull any kind of "3 feet" malarky.

So I'm coming up and this dink opens the passenger door right in front of me. Thank god I had a helmet. No serious damage, just me ranting a bit.

The weirdest thing is, next day... I'm freaked out now, so riding this same bit of gridlock road very slowly and watching carefully... and I get doored again in almost the exact same spot! Spooky.

It was at that point that I decided to leave England.

The other I get are people trying to get onto the road nearly t-boning me while trying to just fly right out of parking lots....I also got used to the areas that will happen and slow down there too.

I'm seriously considering getting some kind of air horn for my bike.

Then take a look at this:

http://www.bicyclespot.com/images/airzound.jpg

It's the DeltaCycle Airzound air horn. http://www.deltacycle.com/ -> Bike Horns. It's so loud you shouldn't use it on pedestrians (it's printed on the box and instruction manual too). When people come up to me and ask what that thing on my handlebar is, I tell them it's an air horn with adjustable volume, 120db capability, etc. Then, when they're not stunned enough, I usually say that "it meets American Coast Guard requirements for volume output". Works all the time. ;)

You should get one, you won't be disappointed. I'm not! :D

Now that is cool!

Then take a look at this:
(AirZound Image)

It's the DeltaCycle Airzound air horn. http://www.deltacycle.com/ -> Bike Horns. It's so loud you shouldn't use it on pedestrians (it's printed on the box and instruction manual too). When people come up to me and ask what that thing on my handlebar is, I tell them it's an air horn with adjustable volume, 120db capability, etc. Then, when they're not stunned enough, I usually say that "it meets American Coast Guard requirements for volume output". Works all the time. ;)

You should get one, you won't be disappointed. I'm not! :D

I've got to second this. I love mine. It will reach out and touch just about anyone in a vehicle, since the volume an tonality of the horn tends to cut through music and all of the oh-so-lovely noise dampening on luxury cars.

When I was younger I had someone back out of their driveway and into me. Nothing was hurt though so I just got up and kept going.

A couple years later I was going through an intersection and there was a car going in the opposite direction which turned left, cutting me off, without a turn signal or anything. I hit the brakes as hard as I could but slammed into the passenger side door and left a good dent. I told the guy I was alright and didn't notice until after he drove off that the frame, fork and front wheel were bent beyond repair.

My point was that I'm not going to worry if I am in the "legal right" and analyse whether a particular car is legally parked or not as I skim inches away from it at 20 mph. I think it is wise to give a minimum 3 foot clearance to all vehicles, legally parked or not.

Look, accidents happen. I am a professional commercial driver as well as a cyclist, and I do dumb things in motor vehicles just like everyone else does. And, believe or not, as a cyclist I do dumb things too. And I am not out of the ordinary in those aspects. But, I don't think you can successfully argue that getting into the habit of giving an adequate "safety margin" when riding or driving is bad advice. And if I choose to ignore recommended safety margins and smack into something, whose at fault? I could stomp my feet about the legality of the "park job", but since I had ample opportunity to see the situation and take steps to avoid it, but instead chose to pass too close, why would I blame the vehicle driver? (and, just to be clear, I am not referencing the original poster's situation with these comments, as I don't know the particulars).

Now granted there are numerous situations that cannot be seen in advance and would be impossible to avoid. And one or both parties could be to blame for those. And they should be handled in our legal system. But (gasp!) a parked car has doors that open, and everyone knows this. So I say, for me, I'm not going to be within 3 feet of a parked car, wherever and however it is parked, unless it is unavoidable. Even if I'm within a red-carpetted, ultra-secure, armed-guarded bike lane!

BTW, As a vehicle, bicycles are not required to use bike lanes unless posted otherwise. It is a false sense of security to think you are protected within the bike lane. Many studies have shown that bike lanes actually place the bicyclist in more danger than just using the traffic lanes. I would suggest the book "Efficient Cycling" if you'd like to obtain more background on this subject.

Cyclists fare best when they act and are treated as drivers of vehicles. Oiks! Didn't notice this post 'til today.

I don't need a primer on the distinction between what's legal and what's safe. The car wasn't parked, nor was it legally stopped. One can't drive in anticipation of every possible unsafe or illegal move another driver might make. If we all did, we'd all be sitting at intersections waiting for one another to proceed. Nowhere did I recommend not being careful about what other drivers might do. But when a car illegally stops in a lane to your left and the door opens, it's unlikely you'll have time to react anyway.

BTW, the book you're talking about is Effective Cycling. And no, I haven't read it, but I've learned most of its precepts from people who have taught courses based on it (we happen to be fellow members of the local bike advocacy group). And if you follow the precepts, you'll know, as most bike advocacy groups in this country have asserted for over a decade now, that "accidents happen" simply isn't true. Accidents don't happen. Both the US-DOT and the NHTSA long ago stopped using the word "accident" to describe traffic crashes, because it implies that they're not preventable. By just saying it's an "accident" when someone stops in a traffic lane and opens a door into another lane, you're absolving the person at fault. By saying we have to be so absurdly vigilant about every possible stupid move that every other driver might possibly make that, for example, we can't pass another vehicle in a lane that we wholly occupy constitutes blaming the victim. Yeah, if we just don't use what's legally and rightfully ours, nobody will hurt us. That's analagous to saying "If she just doesn't dress like she's 'asking for it', she won't get raped." That is most certainly not "effective cycling".

Oiks! Didn't notice this post 'til today.

I don't need a primer on the distinction between what's legal and what's safe. The car wasn't parked, nor was it legally stopped. One can't drive in anticipation of every possible unsafe or illegal move another driver might make. If we all did, we'd all be sitting at intersections waiting for one another to proceed. Nowhere did I recommend not being careful about what other drivers might do. But when a car illegally stops in a lane to your left and the door opens, it's unlikely you'll have time to react anyway.

BTW, the book you're talking about is Effective Cycling. And no, I haven't read it, but I've learned most of its precepts from people who have taught courses based on it (we happen to be fellow members of the local bike advocacy group). And if you follow the precepts, you'll know, as most bike advocacy groups in this country have asserted for over a decade now, that "accidents happen" simply isn't true. Accidents don't happen. Both the US-DOT and the NHTSA long ago stopped using the word "accident" to describe traffic crashes, because it implies that they're not preventable. By just saying it's an "accident" when someone stops in a traffic lane and opens a door into another lane, you're absolving the person at fault. By saying we have to be so absurdly vigilant about every possible stupid move that every other driver might possibly make that, for example, we can't pass another vehicle in a lane that we wholly occupy constitutes blaming the victim. Yeah, if we just don't use what's legally and rightfully ours, nobody will hurt us. That's analagous to saying "If she just doesn't dress like she's 'asking for it', she won't get raped." That is most certainly not "effective cycling".

Well, you are right about the title of the book that I read...

Not to repeat myself, but suggesting that someone leave a 3 foot (or 6, as one poster suggested) minimum clearance between a stopped vehicle, as a "margin of safety", is sound advice and cannot be argued against. Also, I would contend that if I cannot react when a stopped automobile opens a door into my current path then I was either 1) travelling too close to the vehicle, or 2) going too fast for the conditions that were present.

My post was not intended as a primer on safety, and was restricted to stopped and parked vehicles. In reviewing my post, I am pretty sure that I used the words "I" and "me" when describing what I would do and how I would react in the situation, should I not leave adequate clearance. If anyone else would like to absolve themselves of all responsibility when they get doored, so be it. I know that, if it should happen to me, I was at least partially to blame.

I have nothing further to say about this topic, but to carry forward your weak analogy, my suggesting that a 3 foot minimum clearance from stopped vehicles be maintained for safe cycling would be analogous to the good advice of not walking down alleys, alone, after dark...

Hi there,
The worst one I got into was when an large haulage vehicle was waiting to get into the flow of traffic. He looked at me and then sort of zoned out and AS SOON AS I was directly in front of him there was a space to go into the flow of traffic and he just went forward. The vehicle was large enough for the top of my head to be about 2 feet under the botom of his windscreen and I had to just fly into the road to get round, skidding my back wheel to get the proper orientation as quickly as possible. I was very scared and I shouted at him in an extremely agressive manner.
Leconkie

i live in toronto, where they are tryign to make biking a total way of life downtown, I heard recently that we ahve a exteremly hefty fine for peopel that door prize cycilists.

I hear whatyoure saying with the whole ride 3 feet away from the door, which I do. Occasionally though, if anyone has read any of my other poss, this is where I encounter streetcars tracks. Occasioanlly, not very often but occasionally, I have to take my lane so centred that me and my thick knobby tires get stuck in the streetcar tracks, if I've had to take it suddenly and without the proper angle so as nott to. Its rather annoying. But I'd have to say my biggest fear is getting doorprized, having had a couple of courier friends with the scars to show.

I totally understand this -- while riding down Queen West (part of my everyday commute from Queensway to Yonge) there's a fine line between getting doored (almost happens about once a week) and getting 'tracked' (forced into the groove of streetcar tracks). I've developed keenly honed skill sets for each: leaving a wide berth around any parked cars with heads visible, while always riding in the drops with my hands on the brake levers and the ability to bunny-hop a 22 year old cromoly raleigh in full commuter dress. Anything less than this is unacceptable for riding in the city.

I wish that as part of the 10 year bike plan Mr. Miller would but his money where his mouth is wrt cyclist training, I'm getting very tired of the riders who have no interest in following the basics of the rules of the road.

Oh, and next pay-cheque, I'm treating myself to an Air Zounds horn with a third undermount bottle cage. A bell just isn't cutting it and I hate riding with a whistle in my mouth.

Myrcurial

NEVER, NEVER ride any closer to any parked vehicle than the length of it's open door. You used to be able to see into many vehicles' windows to determine if a driver or passenger was present in the vehicle, but not any longer, w/ headrests and tinted and reflective glass blocking the view on most newer cars.

I've been in three crashes w/ cars on my bike, and all three have been doorings. The most potentially serious was about 30 years ago, I was still a kid, I got knocked off into the street and sprained both my wrists, the door bent the downtube on my brand new Peugeot. If there had been ANY traffic coming (it was a fairly busy Long Island four-lane arterial) I would have been toast...

The most difficult thing to accept / deal with is that the motorists behind you usually just don't understand why you're riding so far out in the road...:rolleyes: but it's way better to be safe than sorry, and if they are behind you, y'all have the right of way!

IMO, the problem with many bike lanes in congested urban areas is that they're just not wide enough to avoid doorings, unless you basically ride the line on the road side of the lane....or avoid the bike lane altogether (motorists are really fond of this, too...).

:mad:

Hey, I was just doored the other day by a car in traffic which was stopped at a stop light and let a passenger out.I was riding in the bike lane and plowed into the truck door breaking my collar bone.A police officer who came to the accident scene seemed to think it wasn't the trucks fault. I was naturally quite upset. I felt they were at fault for not pulling over to let passengers out.There was a full 6 ft margin between the curb and the truck and the light quckly turned green after I collided with the door.Any advice or similar experiences?----p.s. I've just returned from a month long solo passage on a 29ft sailboat from Hawaii.The open sea a lot more safe then a weekend ride in SF!
Thanks,one armed sailor

Well, I've heard about it from other riders, but today it finally happened to me: I was riding along the shoulder (a designated bike lane) when suddenly a front passenger door of a car opened. I had no time to react, so I slammed into the open door with by front wheel.

Fortuantely, I wasn't going all that fast, so there was no major damage to my bike or person. My right thigh hit the handle bar, and my front wheel is a little wobbly, but no major damage. It scared the living fukk out of me :eek: Has anyone else had this experience?


On time, in LA, I decided to hit a couple of VERY steep hills after work on July 4th(stupid). Afer I did this, biggest gear, full out, I was next to the beach and discovered endless lines of cars parked on the side of the road. I was wasted and had a steep desent before I got home. Most of the time you can look into the cars to see if there is any danger, but not with so many cars packed in. You may also think people would look behind them before they swung that door fully out and have it torn off by a passing car, but no. 240 lbs(with bike), 18 mph, I know I bent that guys door. I stayed on the bike(didn't stop) but from elbow to upper shoulder it was black/green/purple/yellow.

This is why some bike lanes are idiotic. Down st. george st, we have a bike lane that starts and ends right in door range. How smart is that. Just disallow parking on the street!