Advocacy & Safety - Road Rage against cyclists in mid Michigan

Boy do we need suggestions

The rage against cyclists is going the wrong direction. Its getting worse here in mid Michigan. In the span of 7 days two of our club rides have experienced road rage. In the first incident, on a virtual minimal traffic back road, a motorist passed the group and immediately put on the brakes to an almost stop. In the chaos the resulted 2 riders went down, but fortunately no major injuries but one bike was damaged beyond rideability. The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law". We did not get a license plate number but did file a police report and have the car pretty well described.

In the second instance and again on a less traveled back road a motorist started laying on the horn about a 1/4 mile back, passed the group in a brush by (very close), stopped at a stop sign and started hollering at the group. The club members did not engage this person and kept going. Again we did not get a license, but in this case we should have been able to do so. But a decent car description was made.

How do we get road rage eliminated or at least minimized. We believe from what we have seen that things are getting worse. Is it the economy that is P------ ing people off or what? We have a very active club and are willing to meet with police, sheriff, community leaders and do what is necessary.

I just recently spent a week in the hill country of Texas and it is just a joy compared to here at home. Most drivers actually initiate a salutatory wave to you on the back roads. Maybe they are proud of Lance. I don't know but what a difference.

Suggestions needed for our club on this isssue.

Thanks, Curt
Tri City Cyclists- Midland Michigan

You know things are bad when the attitude towards cyclists is bad compared to Texas. :(

Mid-Michigan? Are you talking, like, the home of the self-destructing American Auto Industry?

Of course motorists hate you -- those damn cyclists are part of the problem! If you weren't riding that damn bicycle, you'd be in a car, which you purchased, and thus the motorist, or his wife, or brother-in-law, or whoever, wouldn't be out of a job. In fact, you're the entire reason the economy is in the hole, and you damn well deserve to be run off the road. On top of everything else, you're probably one of those communists, too.

I think the only thing to do is keep a camera and cellphone handy and wait for the dinosaurs to die off.

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.

...The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law".


MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.

Apparently the motorist in the OP was incorrect; cyclists may ride 2 abreast. They may not ride more than 2 abreast.

Since (apparently) you were obeying the law but the driver didn't know what the law said, let's approach this the other way. Does your area have a bicycle advisory committee to local government? If so, have your club take this issue to the local government and ask for actions--PSAs, changes to driver's licensing to require knowledge of laws concerning bicycles, etc.

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.

The same statute was incorrectly interpreted by a police officer to me in person....

She was as wrong as you are...

You cannot ride "MORE THAN 2" ...

No more than 2 is still more than 1.... right?

As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.

There is no excuse for motorists behaving in ways to intentionally endanger cyclists. But if you are interested in minimizing or eliminating road rage, give a thought to how your group is riding on the road. You really didn't say much about that.

In Massachusetts, until recently cyclists were required to ride single file unless passing. The law has been changed so that riding two abreast is allowed. On low traffic back roads, some of the local racing clubs seem to like to take up the entire road. Maybe 5, 6 or 7 abreast. This is with a group of 50-100 cyclists. I've seen oncoming traffic have to come to a complete stop while the peloton squeezes over to the right side of the road. I find that kind of behavior both unsafe and obnoxious.

If your group is not monopolizing the road then those drivers are just jerks. If your group is monopolizing the road then they are still jerks (for intentionally endangering you), but they might have not acted out their jerkiness if they hadn't been provoked.

Speedo

As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.

Why? It's a no passing zone. You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?

This is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.

As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone. I haven't resorted to road rage since it isn't worth it, but it sure as hell annoys the piss out of me.

Given the option of passing 25+ cyclists riding two abreast vs passing 25+ cyclists riding single file I'll choose the two abreast group. The less time I spend in the left lane the better, you know?

I don't think people realize that cyclists are doing them a favor by effectively shortening the group. 3 abreast would make it even easier.

You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?


I agree. Even in a section of road where it's safe to pass, it is easier to pass the group if they are NOT riding single file. If the cyclist were in a big line, it would be like trying to pass a semi-truck. Apparently people think that it makes it "safer" if they don't have to get over as far to the left, when in fact, they should ALWAYS give you that room. This tells me that people think that they can squeeze between an oncoming car and a bicycle if they had to. I'm not sure where that mentality comes from, but it makes it an even more dangerous situation if the driver approaches a line of bikes and tries to pass. I had a city bus try to pull that crap around a blind curve, and ran me into a ditch because he had to swerve back over and nearly hit me to avoid the oncoming car.

We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Until roadies learn "share the road", stop sign etiquette, etc we can
always expect this. :)

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.

May I humbly suggest that you learn how to read brefore you make high handed judgments? Also you shhould know that the section of the Michigan Vehicle Code that you quoted is no longer in effect, although riding two abreast is still permitted in Michigan.

Mid-Michigan? Are you talking, like, the home of the self-destructing American Auto Industry?

Of course motorists hate you -- those damn cyclists are part of the problem! If you weren't riding that damn bicycle, you'd be in a car, which you purchased, and thus the motorist, or his wife, or brother-in-law, or whoever, wouldn't be out of a job. In fact, you're the entire reason the economy is in the hole, and you damn well deserve to be run off the road. On top of everything else, you're probably one of those communists, too.

I think the only thing to do is keep a camera and cellphone handy and wait for the dinosaurs to die off.

Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe. (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html)

Boy do we need suggestions

The rage against cyclists is going the wrong direction. Its getting worse here in mid Michigan. In the span of 7 days two of our club rides have experienced road rage. In the first incident, on a virtual minimal traffic back road, a motorist passed the group and immediately put on the brakes to an almost stop. In the chaos the resulted 2 riders went down, but fortunately no major injuries but one bike was damaged beyond rideability. The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law". We did not get a license plate number but did file a police report and have the car pretty well described.

In the second instance and again on a less traveled back road a motorist started laying on the horn about a 1/4 mile back, passed the group in a brush by (very close), stopped at a stop sign and started hollering at the group. The club members did not engage this person and kept going. Again we did not get a license, but in this case we should have been able to do so. But a decent car description was made.

How do we get road rage eliminated or at least minimized. We believe from what we have seen that things are getting worse. Is it the economy that is P------ ing people off or what? We have a very active club and are willing to meet with police, sheriff, community leaders and do what is necessary.

I just recently spent a week in the hill country of Texas and it is just a joy compared to here at home. Most drivers actually initiate a salutatory wave to you on the back roads. Maybe they are proud of Lance. I don't know but what a difference.

Suggestions needed for our club on this isssue.

Thanks, Curt
Tri City Cyclists- Midland Michigan

I haven't noticed a change in cager attitudes in mid-Michigan. But I do a different type of riding than you do. I'm mostly in the city, riding alone, and wearing more "regular" clothes. (I am NOT by any means implying that it's OK for drivers to hate on, harrass or endanger club riders.)

I sometimes think that I see a worsening of civil behavior in general around here. Unemployment and economic insecurity seem to be weighing on people's minds. I haven't seen this on the roads yet, but I'm not surprised if you are.

During a heat wave, my mother used to say something like, "People are more irritable in this weather, so we need to make a special effort to be kinder to others. If we all work together, we'll get through this a lot easier." I wish more people would adopt this philosophy in this economic "heat wave."

Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe. (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html)

This tragic incident happened a few blocks from where I was living at the time. There has been no repeat in almost 30 years. Maybe people should start putting it past them.

Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe. (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html)

KA_Jun,

Thank you for providing that link. Mine is a mixed-race family (Chinese-Caucasian), and I had not heard of the Vincent Chin murder. Maybe it is because we were in the rural area of Oregon. It is not an enjoyable piece to read, but very educational.

John

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT) Act 300 of 1949

257.660b Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding more than 2 abreast.
Sec. 660b.

Two or more individuals operating bicycles upon a highway or street shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

May I humbly suggest that club members stop riding two abreast.Pretty bad when a cyclist quotes cycling law and cannot even understand it.

Why? It's a no passing zone. You think you can pass a long string of single file roadies in a no passing zone safely?

This is one of the dumbest arguments I've heard.

If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?

If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?

It has to be a bike lane, not just the white edge line.

If they were all in the bike lane I would have no problem passing them. Are you not allowed to pass cyclists in a bike lane when there is a double yellow?Sounds like another motorist who just happens to also own a bicycle.:crash:

I guess people don't think a car fits into the opposing lane. I wonder what they do when they are going the other way?


As far as the OP goes, you need to emphasize the importance of memorizing the plate. I my memory is no better than any other person's memory, but I have always managed to memorize the plate. Read it a number of times, and continue to repeat it to yourself. I don't use mnemonics, but it helps some people.

I guess people don't think a car fits into the opposing lane. I wonder what they do when they are going the other way?

When I prepare for left turns on two lane roads, nowhere near the yellow line, I can clearly see people on the other side moving towards the white line and sometimes onto the (1 inch wide) shoulder. There are also extremely narrow roads in my area where opposing SUVs regularly pass at a relative speed of 80mph with 6" or less between mirrors (the lane being about 2 feet wider than the average midsize car).

Point being, people by nature give way more room to bikes than to cars, and a bike anywhere near the yellow line would likely make people freak.

Interestingly, this seems to only be applicable on high speed rural roads; I lane split in the center of local/urban roads regularly, with no explicit reaction from drivers.

Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe. (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html)

I remember the Vincent Chin case. I was in grade school growing up 40 miles south east of Detriot (on the igloo side). The attitudes described here also apply to Windsor across the river. There have been incidents along Riverside Drive as car drivers have been irked by the presence of cyclists. The local media several years ago was all bent out of shape because cyclists dared to use "their" roads.

I suggest that your club pools money to together for a decent helmet camera and then finds a lawyer that will represent the club beforehand, so when it happens again and you have it on video, you have a strong case.

Don't joke. Asian-Americans are well aware of the type of mentality you describe. (http://asianweek.com/061397/feature.html)

I wasn't joking. I grew up in Ohio. I remember the Klan rallies. It's the same mentality of blame-someone-else-for-your-problems.

As a cyclist myself I get annoyed when I see a group of roadies (25+) taking up an entire lane of a two-lane highway in a no-passing zone.This line of reasoning always amuses me, because if there's no shoulder and the road isn't significantly wider than normal, I'll take up an entire lane of a two-lane highway by myself -- I don't need 24 more friends to help me do it.

Hugging the right curb is simply an invitation for somebody to try to pass me -- and if it's a no-passing zone, it's probably a no-passing zone for a reason. Yes, I will pull to the right and let people pass, but it's on my terms, not theirs. If I don't think it's safe for somebody to pass me, I'm not going to invite them to do so.

(And yes, it's my safety that's at stake. If somebody starts passing on a blind curve and is suddenly confronted by oncoming traffic, they're going to get out of the way of that traffic. They may have noticed that there was a bike over there somewhere earlier, but the moment they see a car closing with them at 130 mph they're going to get back over into the right lane, whether I'm there or not. And if I am, it'll likely be fatal. But they'll justify it by pointing out that the 130 mph head-on collision would also likely be fatal, perhaps to my widow. All because I invited them to pass by hugging the curb.)

... shall not ride more than 2 abreast except upon a path or portion of the highway or street set aside for the use of bicycles.

My bad. As it is in fact against the law for cyclists to ride two abreast on the road in MA, I did not read the MI law carefully enough.

I stand corrected, but was it really necessary for some of you to be so nasty about it??

Edit: the question is rhetorical.

I stand corrected, but was it really necessary for some of you to be so nasty about it??

Edit: the question is rhetorical."I'm a cyclist, but" is what a large number of lying cagers say when they are about to advise you to get the f--- out of their way because they don't want to be inconvenienced for a few seconds. So it kinda has an unpleasant whiff of trollishness and dishonesty to it when used in a post on BF. And you'll find that nastiness is the way of A&S. The ignore list is your friend.

My bad. As it is in fact against the law for cyclists to ride two abreast on the road in MA, I did not read the MI law carefully enough.

I stand corrected, but was it really necessary for some of you to be so nasty about it??

Edit: the question is rhetorical.

Sorry... wrong again. Looks like you need to read MA law (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm) more carefully as well.


Bicyclists riding together shall not ride more than 2 abreast

The motorist shouted something about "you cannot ride two abreast. Its the state law".

I am accused of breaking imaginary laws all the time. :rolleyes:

There always seems to be a spike of hostility from motorists in the spring. I can't prove it, but I've noticed it.

If this type of incident is happening regularly then I'd think spending some club money on video cameras would be very worthwhile. The arrangement used by the FOX news guy in Milwaukee looks good - one camera mounted on the left handlebar drop looking back and a second one mounted on his helmet. The first documents anyone passing too close and the helmet cam is good for seeing the license plate and any aggressive moves such as stopping suddenly in front of the cyclists.

I saw this article at www.drunkcyclist.com and thought I should pass it along. It speaks to the mentality and culture that we have to deal with as cyclists. Oh, and it is from Lansing, MI.

http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article/2009/04/bicyclists_need_to_stay_on_sidewalk

Bicyclists need to stay on sidewalk
by Zack Colman

Black 2001 Saturn SC2. That’s the car I drive — and if you’re a bicyclist on the road but not in a bike path and you see my car, I hope you’re wearing a helmet, because I might run you over.
Maybe not intentionally.
But you see, with all these things I can do in my car nowadays, such as choose a different song on my iPod, send a text message while driving or fall asleep at the wheel because I had to wake up for a worthless 8 a.m. biology lab, I might not notice you.
And, considering you are where you should not be, I might hit you.
The simple fact of the matter is, MSU has so kindly provided sidewalks for people on foot and Rollerblades, and MSU’s ordinance should be revised to require bicyclists be there too. The university has outlined bike paths on certain roads, but bicyclists can’t just create imaginary bike paths like they do.
I cannot drive my car on the sidewalk, so why must you ride your bicycle where I drive?
Many of my friends ride bicycles on campus, so I’m not trying to berate a whole demographic of students. I appreciate bicyclists who advocate environmentalism, since they are making up for the damage I do with my car.
I respect bicyclists who use bicycles as a form of exercise, since people certainly can never get enough fitness in their everyday routines.
But for as much as I respect and appreciate bicyclists, I will not hesitate to honk at them when they are interfering with the roads.
My concern is not merely about inconvenience.
Bicyclists on the road are a driving hazard to people in automobiles, since many bicyclists make turns without using hand signals and ride too close to other vehicles when there is no designated bike path.
For example, I was driving to work Tuesday when a bicyclist pulled up in front of my car in the right lane on Farm Lane going northbound where it intersects with Shaw Lane. There is no bike path at this portion of the road, and I needed to be in the right lane to avoid the left turn only lane, but the bicyclist was in the way.
Instead, I had to speed ahead and veer away from the fast-approaching rear end of the car in front of me, just barely making it into the right lane.
Some will say I could be more patient on the road.
But roads are for cars, not bicyclists. The bicyclist should not have been in the car lane.
It’s possible some bicyclists are trying to live out their dreams of being Lance Armstrong, and the smooth terrain offered by the roads where big, people-killing cars are designed to travel on are more desirable than the sidewalk pavement.
I get it, bicyclists — you’re in the Tour de France. Well, in your head at least.
But in reality, my gas-guzzling, carbon footprint-leaving car is trying to get around you, the bicyclist. And you, the bicyclist, prefer to coast, not along the side of the lane but in the exact middle.
Maybe in your head you are actually driving a car. Maybe that’s why you believe you should be behind a pickup truck and in front of 15 other cars trying to pass you.
And maybe you are Armstrong, so talented and in shape and able to pedal so, so fast. But Armstrong’s average speed in the 2001 Tour de France was 24.9 mph, which is 0.1 mph less than most of the speed limits on and around campus.
Plus, I’ve had difficulty finding students who actually obey the speed limit anyway.
It’s common for motorists to drive at least 5 mph above the speed limit, which makes your task to out-pedal Lance Armstrong all the more daunting. And considering you’re not actually Armstrong (even if you do wear a skintight yellow bicycle uniform), you likely are not going 24.9 mph.
And, oh yeah, Armstrong is competing when he is bicycling — your leisurely ride through campus might not even register on a police radar.
But, hey, snap out of it. You’re not Lance Armstrong.
And those are the headlights of my black 2001 Saturn SC2 bearing down on you.

Zack Colman is the State News opinion writer. Reach him at colmanz1@msu.edu.
Published on Wednesday, April 8, 2009

I stand corrected, but was it really necessary for some of you to be so nasty about it??

Edit: the question is rhetorical.Did you sort of notice that you got back, what you dished out?

Then you whine about it.

Then you make an excuse for it, which wrongly states the law of MA as well.

Sorry... wrong again. Looks like you need to read MA law (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm) more carefully as well.

Actually buzzman, Boston Commuter posted on April 14th when it was illegal to ride two abreast. Now that it's April 15th it is legal to ride two abreast! :roflmao2:

Speedo

Then you make an excuse for it, which wrongly states the law of MA as well.

CB HI you should learn to read the law a little more carefully. When he posted he was right!

Speedo

Just to note that every spring I see a brief period of drivers acting out because of our reemergence from hibernation. I dies down after a bit but in the meantime be careful.

We have met the enemy, and it is us.
Until roadies learn "share the road", stop sign etiquette, etc we can
always expect this. :)

What I think you are saying is that the enmity that some motorist display towards cyclists is the result of some cyclists not complying with the traffic laws. Personally, I do not think this is the case. I believe that hostile to cyclists motorists do not care one little bit about traffic law compliance by cyclists. I believe what inflames them is cyclists using THEIR roads. They pay taxes and they personally OWN the roads. Cyclists need to stay off or suffer the consequences. I have heard this sentiments from numerous hostile motorists. I believe that they are especially inflammed by cyclists behaving in a perfectly legal fashion on the roads. I mean, the cyclists are acting as if they have a right to ride on the road. Since these guys think that they personally own the public roads, cyclists acting as if they have a right to use the roads makes the motorists apoplectic.

Actually, I think these motorist actually are less bothered by cyclists who routinely break traffic laws because those cyclists are obviously bandits and really seem to concur that they (the cyclist) has no right on the road.

CB HI you should learn to read the law a little more carefully. When he posted he was right!

Speedo


I hope you took similar note as to when I posted.:p, which, by the way, was what CBHI was referencing- and take note of when his post was.

Sorry, but as the Rolling Stones said, "time is on my side, yes, it is...";)

Because now I am waiting for Boston Commuter to amend her post. :innocent:

What I think you are saying is that the enmity that some motorist display towards cyclists is the result of some cyclists not complying with the traffic laws. Personally, I do not think this is the case. I believe that hostile to cyclists motorists do not care one little bit about traffic law compliance by cyclists. I believe what inflames them is cyclists using THEIR roads.
Actually, I think these motorist actually are less bothered by cyclists who routinely break traffic laws because those cyclists are obviously bandits and really seem to concur that they (the cyclist) has no right on the road.

Around here, south of you, its both.
Drivers are of the selfish 'ME ME ME' variety in a hurry to get to the
next stop lite 100 yards up the road, but also its cyclists too.
I live on A1A and have attended advocacy meetings so I am speaking from
a first hand point of view. There are several rides during the week within
1/2 mile of my house and on Jupiter Island. Roadie group ride mentality is
outrageously anti-social. Groups of 25 or more running stop signs, taking
the whole lane while cars stack up behind them even though there is a
4' wide bike lane next to them, slapping cars as they go by, yelling stuff,
throwing water bottles etc. One homeowner even called police to report
urinating in her front yard on the island.
This is the perception the public have of bike riders here in the West/North
Palm area, right or wrong. This is what we need to overcome. Not CM
or taking the lane type non-issues. Stopping our most visible entity from
assaulting the public with anti-social behavior and showing at least a
little responsibility toward other road users, giving to them what we expect
in return :) I got yelled at by one on Jupiter Island because he had to unclip
ubruptly at one of the three stop signs on the Island. C'mon WTF ?!?!? :twitchy:

What I think you are saying is that the enmity that some motorist display towards cyclists is the result of some cyclists not complying with the traffic laws. Personally, I do not think this is the case. I believe that hostile to cyclists motorists do not care one little bit about traffic law compliance by cyclists. I believe what inflames them is cyclists using THEIR roads. They pay taxes and they personally OWN the roads. Cyclists need to stay off or suffer the consequences. I have heard this sentiments from numerous hostile motorists. I believe that they are especially inflammed by cyclists behaving in a perfectly legal fashion on the roads. I mean, the cyclists are acting as if they have a right to ride on the road. Since these guys think that they personally own the public roads, cyclists acting as if they have a right to use the roads makes the motorists apoplectic.

Actually, I think these motorist actually are less bothered by cyclists who routinely break traffic laws because those cyclists are obviously bandits and really seem to concur that they (the cyclist) has no right on the road.

This is what I suspect as well, motorists just add traffic violations by cyclists to add more weight to their argument that cyclists don't belong on the road.

I hope you took similar note as to when I posted.:p, which, by the way, was what CBHI was referencing- and take note of when his post was.

Sorry, but as the Rolling Stones said, "time is on my side, yes, it is...";)

Because now I am waiting for Boston Commuter to amend his post. :innocent:

Yeah I did. Boston Commuter posted that it was illegal to ride two abreast at 9:50 PM on 14 April 2009. At the moment he posted he was correct. At 12:28 AM on 15 April 2009 you complained that Boston Commuter was wrong about the MA law. Now, while the law had changed between the time that Boston Commuter posted, and you posted, his original post was completely correct at the time he posted. You were incorrect to complain about his post. You owe Boston Commuter an apology.

Likewise CB HI says that Boston Commuter wrongly stated the MA law. But at the time that Boston Commuter stated it he was correct!

I actually got this wrong too. In a 14 April post I state that MA allows riding two abreast. I had thought that the law changed in January.

I realize that the philosophy of A&S is "Scorch the earth and take no prisoners!" but I think this is something that we can laugh about.

Speedo

hmmmm, well, when I'm driving would I rather see a single file line of cyclists or two abreast?

Too bad those are the only options. I think I would much rather see a short line of cyclists stacked however many abreast that fit in the lane. It creates a shorter line to pass. It's pretty damn hair raising as a driver having to pass a line of cyclists that's longer than several 18 wheel trucks.

Of course that's doing a proper pass (fulling into the oncoming lane at an area where it is safe to pass and no oncoming cars). The "far right as practicable" is crap. Just lets drivers think they can squeeze past on blind corners and with oncoming cars bearing down on them.

I got my information about Massachusetts bicycle law from the Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition's web site: http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/

It says, "You must ride single file unless passing." If MassBike is wrong about Massachusetts law, maybe someone here should let them know.

And, just to clear it up, I did not intend to snipe at the OP. I find the behavior of the driver in the original post appalling. The OP wanted to know what HE can do -- he can't prevent road rage, but he can make sure he is in compliance with the law and then call the police if someone else is in violation.

I give up on trying to convince anyone here that I was not attacking the OP. I will make no more posts to this thread, where clearly many people are in attack mode. (BTW, I am a she, not a he.)

I

It says, "You must ride single file unless passing." If MassBike is wrong about Massachusetts law, maybe someone here should let them know.

Just curious, but why is it someone else's responsibility to inform MassBike that you feel they are wrong about Mass law?

Just curious mind you... not in "attack mode".;)

Yeah I did. Boston Commuter posted that it was illegal to ride two abreast at 9:50 PM on 14 April 2009. At the moment he posted he was correct. At 12:28 AM on 15 April 2009 you complained that Boston Commuter was wrong about the MA law. Now, while the law had changed between the time that Boston Commuter posted, and you posted, his original post was completely correct at the time he posted. You were incorrect to complain about his post. You owe Boston Commuter an apology.

Likewise CB HI says that Boston Commuter wrongly stated the MA law. But at the time that Boston Commuter stated it he was correct!

I actually got this wrong too. In a 14 April post I state that MA allows riding two abreast. I had thought that the law changed in January.

I realize that the philosophy of A&S is "Scorch the earth and take no prisoners!" but I think this is something that we can laugh about.

SpeedoBut I was in Guam at the time of Boston Commuters post and the date listed on the post on my computer clearly said 04-15-09.

Just curious, but why is it someone else's responsibility to inform MassBike that you feel they are wrong about Mass law?

Just curious mind you... not in "attack mode".;)

If I am following this correctly person A thinks the law is X which they got from MassBike. Person B thinks the law is Y and person A is wrong. So person A says don't talk to me, talk to MassBike were I got my information from.

That seems logical to me.

But I was in Guam at the time of Boston Commuters post and the date listed on the post on my computer clearly said 04-15-09.

But, being a seasoned world traveler based in Hawaii, converting time zones is second nature to you. So you immediately compensated for the time change and knew that Boston Commuter posted on the April 14th EDT which is the applicable time zone for the law.

Speedo

Just curious, but why is it someone else's responsibility to inform MassBike that you feel they are wrong about Mass law?


Sorry, it was my responsibility. I just sent them an e-mail.

Speedo

If I am following this correctly person A thinks the law is X which they got from MassBike. Person B thinks the law is Y and person A is wrong. So person A says don't talk to me, talk to MassBike were I got my information from.

That seems logical to me.


I'm not sure if Boston Commuter is a member of Massbike or not but they were active in changing the law, they helped draft the legislation and they have been publicizing it's recent passage on their website, in emails and at meetings.

Also, I, too, used a Massbike website link to the law itself. If Boston Commuter does not have the comprehension skills necessary to read the MI law correctly, which was posted and clearly stated "no more than 2 abreast" (if you recall she interpreted that as "single file" only) and is confused by information on the Mass Bike website and does not take the time to read the law in it's entirety and instead blames MassBike for her misunderstanding and then expects others to take responsibility for correcting MassBike then IMO she can expect to be responded to honestly by those of us who have taken the time know the bike laws in our regions.

What's ironic is speedo tried to make light of the dates of the posts in order to lighten up the dialogue, which I appreciate, but Boston Commuter was already too offended to pick up the humor and run with it.:(