Advocacy & Safety - Take the lane ******bag sighting.

I am driving home tonight in the wife's minvan. Yeah, should have been on the bike, but, feeling a bit lazy this week along with personal drama I'd rather not go into bumming me out.

So, I'm driving along, it's about quarter after 6, pretty much the middle of rush hour on a very busy road.

I spot one of the pleasant signs that spring is here. A group of 10-12 bikers on an afterwork group ride. This particular stretch of road is pretty busy this time of day, but, it is pretty flat, has wide lanes and a pretty generous shoulder. This actually makes it a pretty good bike route, so long as you don't mind sharing it with a bunch of cages.

Anyway, the entire group is riding single file on the generous shoulder, with one exception. Mr take the lane is about mid pack. He was not overtaking anyone, he was just riding along, somewhere between right tire track and the middle of the damn road. This was causing car traffic to slow and back up a bit since they could not safely pass with oncoming cager traffic which I was part of.

What an a-hole. I understand the take the lane philosophy to a point. I have done it myself when I feel there really isn't much choice. This tool was not doing this. He was just asserting his right as a vehicle, I suppose. There was ample room on the shoulder for him to ride and let cages pass safely, but, he just didn't give a rat's but. I found myself thinking "I hope somebody runs his arse into the ditch".

As a result, there are probably a few more pissed off cagers on this route who think we should all be bannished to the MUP. I will be sharing the road with them while commuting on my bike.

Thanks alot, ahole.

A bunch of VC proponents will probably complain at your attitude and how the shoulder invites right hooks and how one should never be to the right of traffic that might be turning right...

...but I agree with you.

I've also seen a thread about a member getting a ticket while taking the lane, because the 12ft shoulder contained some right turn lanes or something.

i bet you ******* in the lane was coaching the other riders on safe road riding...

Yup, I went through that phase too. Then I realized sharing the lane was a better idea in most scenarios than taking it. Now I share.

Yea, I am with you on this. Even with a fairly wide shoulder, I still try to stay to the right as much as possible.

I was watching this dope pretty carefully. He didn't seem to be doing any coaching as far as I could tell. He did have a blazing yellow reflective vest on though, so I doubt he was gonna be run over.

If safe riding is his goal, there are a hell of a lot better places I can think of riding than the middle of ellington road in south windsor at 6:15 PM. The same spot is pretty nice though at 5:30 AM on a sunday morning commute.

What made you believe that he was part of the 10-12 group of riders?

Share the road doesn't mean cars on the road and bikes on the shoulder.

I am more interested in the juvenile name calling.
I do not care either way. Let him take the damn lane.

What made you believe that he was part of the 10-12 group of riders?

Presumably he was keeping up. Although the description of his clothing makes him sound dissimilar to a club rider.

Usually this sort of thing is self enforcing. You take the shoulder because it's less miserable. It might be more dangerous, but if it is you trade the misery for the danger and it's worth it. It's al little like using MUPs: You're more likely to get hurt, but you're less likely to get harassed.

I guess some guys have balls of steel. No fear apparently.

I am driving home tonight in the wife's minvan.


Every thread ever started in this way here was created by a person who deserves a punch in the neck. Congrats on continuing the trend.

Seriously. This is NOT the place for it.

Share the road doesn't mean cars on the road and bikes on the shoulder.

:thumb:

You call him ahole, hey probably called him coach

there are a number of sparsely traveled back roads in the area that he can feel free to coach his arse off on. This is a very heavily traveled main road at that time of day. Taking the lane here during heavy traffic is going to result in an impatient cager making a dangerous pass. If he was on the wide and well paved shoulder, passing would be very safe. I'll see if I can get a google earth pic of the spot.

Whatever. Why don't you take the backroads? Is the local university on the back roads?

And just think, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you are never, EVER going to get those 2 minutes of your life back! The scoundrel! Running him into a ditch would be too kind for you paying such a high price?

there are a number of sparsely traveled back roads in the area that he can feel free to coach his arse off on.

Right! How dare he ride on your road?

It is perfectly legal to drive 45mph in the left lane of the interstate, and you no longer have to deal with those pesky merging people! The people behind you won't mind, after all, there's only several dozen of them and they're held up for less than 60 seconds each!

It is perfectly legal to drive 45mph in the left lane of the interstate, and you no longer have to deal with those pesky merging people! The people behind you won't mind, after all, there's only several dozen of them and they're held up for less than 60 seconds each!

Ahhhh, you begin to understand! Now, allow some space between you and the car in front. It doesn't matter if it is 10 feet or half a mile, notice that no matter how big the gap, when you travel at the same speed, you both get where you are going? I know, I know, this sounds just crazy, but you don't have to be able to read the dashboard of the car in front of you to get where you are going. For the final lesson I shall enlist some help from the University mathematics department to show that if you just leave a few minutes earlier, you will end up where you are going a few minutes earlier. The math can be hard to follow, but when they walk you through it you will be able to understand. :)

It is perfectly legal to drive 45mph in the left lane of the interstate,

Actually, many states whether they enforce it or not have a law that says the left lane is for passing and traffic is to keep right. So you might want to find a different analogy.

-R

Actually, many states whether they enforce it or not have a law that says the left lane is for passing and traffic is to keep right. So you might want to find a different analogy.

-R

Texas is one state.

And just think, no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you are never, EVER going to get those 2 minutes of your life back! The scoundrel! Running him into a ditch would be too kind for you paying such a high price?
it probably cost the OP exactly zero time. This is what amazes me. Idiot drivers that can't stomach the notion that they might have to -- potentially -- expend some small amount of effort to avoid another vehicle operator. I don't get honked at often, but the last time I was honked at, it was by two people that were operating the only vehicles in sight on a 4 lane road. I don't usually ride on that road because of the idiot drivers, but this was when the university was closed so nobody was on the road.

There is a road near me that has fairly heavy traffic, so I usually ride on the shoulder. Speed limit is only 35, so this is entirely a matter of courtesy on my part. I was right-hooked on Sunday. It made me realize that my status on the shoulder is less than clear. I'm going to be taking the lane from now on.

Every thread ever started in this way here was created by a person who deserves a punch in the neck. Congrats on continuing the trend.

Seriously. This is NOT the place for it.

Your post is totally inappropriate. Seriously. This is NOT the place for it. It's one thing to disagree. It's quite another to be personally insulting.

Thanks alot, ahole.

+1

All it takes is one d-bag like that to make the cagers go "SEE! This is why bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road!". Ugh. :rolleyes:

Your post is totally inappropriate. Seriously. This is NOT the place for it. It's one thing to disagree. It's quite another to be personally insulting.
The original post is rude, wrong and trollish. That is all.

Share the road doesn't mean cars on the road and bikes on the shoulder.

It does when the cars fit well on the road, the bikes fit well on the shoulder, and nobody gets in each other's way.

There are a number of sparsely traveled back roads in the area that he can feel free to coach his arse off on.

Good to know! Perhaps some of the motorists ought to use those back roads if they don't like dealing with slow traffic on Ellington road.


This is a very heavily traveled main road at that time of day.

Gee, lots of people using the public road. It is called traffic. What makes you so special?


Taking the lane here during heavy traffic is going to result in an impatient cager making a dangerous pass.

That ain't the cyclist's fault, why are you angry at him?


If he was on the wide and well paved shoulder, passing would be very safe. I'll see if I can get a Google earth pic of the spot.

Actually, what you really mean is that passing would be very convenient. The obligation rests on the one who is overtaking to pass with due care and in a safe manner, not the one who is being passed. How could you not know this? Perhaps you shouldn't be driving a motor vehicle until you brush up on the rules of the road. Besides, someone would have to be a really poor driver to be unable to pass a bicyclist.

You are a perfect example, trekker pete, of cyclist inferiority complex. You see two drivers on the public road, both operating within their rights and the law, and you are upset that the motorist might become annoyed. OH THE HUMANITY!

You pretend that you are concerned about the cyclist's safety, but really you are upset that you were unable to drive your wife's car 10 MPH over the speed limit for the entire trip home, which you probably imagine is your God given right.

The original post is rude, wrong and trollish. That is all.

The OP's attitude, minivan and all, is unfortunate, but I have to agree with him, to the extent that whatever a single cyclist does reflects on all of us in the eyes of many motorists. I frequently take the lane, particularly if car doors are involved; I'd much rather annoy an impatient driver or two than get nailed. However, if I'm on a 55 mph highway with a clear, smooth, 4 to6-ft shoulder, I'll use the shoulder without hesitation or shame. I take the lane for reasons of safety, not to make a point. I totally understand that some motorists will be annoyed by the very presence of a bicycle on the road; there is not much you can do about them, except to calmly assert your rights. However, asserting your rights does not mean that you should confirm their prejudices about bicyclists at the first available opportunity. Sharing the road is a two-way proposition.

It does when the cars fit well on the road, the bikes fit well on the shoulder, and nobody gets in each other's way.

+1

I can understand if the shoulder was in disrepair, was dangerous or had some other obstacle but this seems like a two lane road going in both directions (one lane for each direction) with a very wide and well paved and maintained shoulder. Cars behind the lane-taker could NOT pass because they'd have to go head-on into oncoming traffic. No dice.

That's not "sharing" the road. Sorry. That's unnecessarily monopolizing it. You hate it when cars do it so why is it okay to hog the road on a bike (during rush hour, with a well-paved, safe shoulder) when it's not warranted? :twitchy:

Anyway, I'd love to see this road on Google Earth just to be sure but from the sound of it, the lane taking was just not unnecessary.

If we're all vehicles, and we all need to share the road, why isn't the operator of a vehicle getting in the way of a bunch of other vehicles when it's not necessary for his own travel an a-hole?

+1

All it takes is one d-bag like that to make the cagers go "SEE! This is why bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road!". Ugh. :rolleyes:A cyclist operating his vehicle in a legal manner is not properly addressed as a d-bag. The cagers hate you anyway, learn to deal with it.

The cars fit well on the road, the bikes fit well on the shoulder, and nobody gets in each other's way.

If the lane on the PUBLIC road is wide enough for a car, it is easily wide enough for a bicycle!

There are time honored and tested rules that protect traffic from getting in each others way- it is called collectively as "the right of way"! Each vehicle has a right to the public travel lane on a first come, first rights basis. If slow moving vehicles are so upsetting for you, leave earlier or find a different route.

The OP's attitude, minivan and all, is unfortunate, but I have to agree with him, to the extent that whatever a single cyclist does reflects on all of us in the eyes of many motorists. I frequently take the lane, particularly if car doors are involved; I'd much rather annoy an impatient driver or two than get nailed. However, if I'm on a 55 mph highway with a clear, smooth, 4 to6-ft shoulder, I'll use the shoulder without hesitation or shame. I take the lane for reasons of safety, not to make a point. I totally understand that some motorists will be annoyed by the very presence of a bicycle on the road; there is not much you can do about them, except to calmly assert your rights. However, asserting your rights does not mean that you should confirm their prejudices about bicyclists at the first available opportunity. Sharing the road is a two-way proposition.

+1

Agreed! I only take the lane when absolutely necessary and only for matters of safety and/or obeying traffic laws (i.e. getting into the left lane to turn left, avoiding getting doored, etc.).

All it takes is one jerk to ruin it for all the rest of us. Share the road! Be courteous to each other. Only take the lane in busy situation when absolutely necessary.

A little common courtesy (on both sides) can go a long way...

The cagers hate you anyway, learn to deal with it.

Please speak for yourself. I've had cars roll down windows and ask me about my bike. Occasionally some guys in cars try to pick me up, lol! I don't know. Maybe because I have a smile on my face every time I ride because I love cycling, I obey traffic laws, use hand signals and only take the lane when absolutely needed... Some cagers seem to love me. But thanks! :)

Remember, cager or biker, we are all human beings. Some of you guys seem to be forgetting this...

The OP's attitude, minivan and all, is unfortunate, but I have to agree with him, to the extent that whatever a single cyclist does reflects on all of us in the eyes of many motorists. [snip]

I totally understand that some motorists will be annoyed by the very presence of a bicycle on the road; there is not much you can do about them, except to calmly assert your rights. However, asserting your rights does not mean that you should confirm their prejudices about bicyclists at the first available opportunity. Sharing the road is a two-way proposition.

This is what pisses me off about all those parinoid curb-hugging bike riders! They confirm the prejudices of our car-centric society that cyclists belong out of the way of the superior road user- the motorist. A single cyclist, riding in a childish manner, reflects on all of us in the eyes of many motorists.

The cagers hate you anyway, learn to deal with it.

LOL, speak for yourself. The overwhelming majority of cars that pass me give me room to spare.

Maybe it's because I'm not riding about with a chip on my shoulder that takes up half the lane. :O)

What an a-hole. I understand the take the lane philosophy to a point. I have done it myself when I feel there really isn't much choice. This tool was not doing this. He was just asserting his right as a vehicle, I suppose. There was ample room on the shoulder for him to ride and let cages pass safely, but, he just didn't give a rat's but.

Obviously I don't know the local situation or the past history, but it occurs to me that he was probably making the ride more pleasant for the other 9 - 11 riders in the group by making sure that passing cars would be giving them ample room. If the group had previous experience with cars passing them with very little clearance when everyone stayed on the shoulder then this style of riding could be a natural reaction.

Obviously I don't know the local situation or the past history, but it occurs to me that he was probably making the ride more pleasant for the other 9 - 11 riders in the group by making sure that passing cars would be giving them ample room. If the group had previous experience with cars passing them with very little clearance when everyone stayed on the shoulder then this style of riding could be a natural reaction.

I thought about that too but from what the OP described there was AMPLE shoulder for the riders to traverse it without any issue or "buzzers".

I am REALLY curious to see this road on Google Earth... It would put this debate to bed.

You're making assumptions about how I ride that are incorrect. I am far more considerate of motorists than they are of me, on average. Specifically, I desire they be in front of me rather than behind me. Thus, I slow them as little as possible. Generally, I only take the lane while descending. I mostly ride in the right wheel track because most of the roads I ride on don't have shoulders and I pick the lowest traffic roads possible. I probably would ride the shoulder as the OP has described it. However, I respect the right of the person he describes to ride in a legal manner, as described.

In the last year, in the situations I have been in that most threatened my safety, I was not taking the lane. I believe taking the lane in those situations would have enhanced my safety. The last couple of times I was harassed from a car, I was on the shoulder. The great majority of motorists pass safely and seem to be worried about my safety. The motorists that hate you are going to hate you anyway. If you are oblivious to that fact, you're lucky.

I looked around on Google street view in his area and didn't find any shoulders at all. He's going to have to help us on this one.

I am driving home tonight in the wife's minvan. Yeah, should have been on the bike, but, feeling a bit lazy this week along with personal drama I'd rather not go into bumming me out.

So, I'm driving along, it's about quarter after 6, pretty much the middle of rush hour on a very busy road.

I spot one of the pleasant signs that spring is here. A group of 10-12 bikers on an afterwork group ride. This particular stretch of road is pretty busy this time of day, but, it is pretty flat, has wide lanes and a pretty generous shoulder. This actually makes it a pretty good bike route, so long as you don't mind sharing it with a bunch of cages.

Anyway, the entire group is riding single file on the generous shoulder, with one exception. Mr take the lane is about mid pack. He was not overtaking anyone, he was just riding along, somewhere between right tire track and the middle of the damn road. This was causing car traffic to slow and back up a bit since they could not safely pass with oncoming cager traffic which I was part of.

What an a-hole. I understand the take the lane philosophy to a point. I have done it myself when I feel there really isn't much choice. This tool was not doing this. He was just asserting his right as a vehicle, I suppose. There was ample room on the shoulder for him to ride and let cages pass safely, but, he just didn't give a rat's but. I found myself thinking "I hope somebody runs his arse into the ditch".

As a result, there are probably a few more pissed off cagers on this route who think we should all be bannished to the MUP. I will be sharing the road with them while commuting on my bike.

Thanks alot, ahole.

Ha ha ha ha ha! LOLOLOLOLOLolololoLOLololol

he he he

I had to check the date to make sure it was not an april fools joke.

ROTFLMAO

This is what pisses me off about all those parinoid curb-hugging bike riders! They confirm the prejudices of our car-centric society that cyclists belong out of the way of the superior road user- the motorist. A single cyclist, riding in a childish manner, reflects on all of us in the eyes of many motorists.

Thats why they all think we belong on the sidewalks.

People think taking the lane is "sooooo scary". They dont want to admit they are scared, so they make up some lame excuses like "its inconsiderate, immoral, dangerous, bad for the environment, it kills kittens, jesus hates it, its safer". They just need more time driving a bicycle like an adult.

Oh man, this seems to be the latest craze. How soon before joggers and skaters start "taking the road"?

What is missing in this whole argument is the notion of common courtesy. If it's not safe to ride on the shoulder, then a cyclist should take the lane for safety. OTOH, if there is no safety reason to be in the lane, then it's a courtesy to get out of the lane and not impede traffic. Sure, a cyclist has a right to the lane, but if you don't have a good reason to hold someone else up, why do it?

A friend of mine, and riding buddy, takes the lane all the time. I don't think he's doing anyone any favors a lot of the time.

I did some serious vehicular cycling today, taking a long route home since I had to go to a parents meeting at the high school (for a band trip to Disneyland). Anyway, I was on some pretty busy streets. I didn't take the lane at all, except for:

1. Under a railroad viaduct. It's one lane each direction, without enough room to pass safely. I waited for an opening and took it, no problem.

2. In a construction zone. For the most part, the road isn't too bad, even where the construction is, but where it transitions from one side of the road to the other, there clearly isn't enough room to safely pass. Again, I waited for a pretty big gap, then took the lane. The SUV that was probably a quarter mile back when I changed lanes must have jumped on it because before I knew it, she was alongside me, straddling the double yellow, trying to pass me before the barrels started. I didn't back off and she had to tuck in behind me. Idiot. As soon as the barrels ended I peeled off to the side and waived her through. I was probably being too nice.

Every thread ever started in this way here was created by a person who deserves a punch in the neck. Congrats on continuing the trend.

Seriously. This is NOT the place for it.

++
op sounds like a troll






side note, would you be happier if the entire group took the lane instead of just the 1 guy?
I think they should have.

it kills kittens

Hey, hey, hey! This kitten is still alive. :p

What is missing in this whole argument is the notion of common courtesy. If it's not safe to ride on the shoulder, then a cyclist should take the lane for safety. OTOH, if there is no safety reason to be in the lane, then it's a courtesy to get out of the lane and not impede traffic.

Cyclists are traffic. Courtesy and the law demands that slower traffic be passed with due care. Courtesy and the law require motorists to pay attention to the grave task at hand- operating their vehicle. The shoulder is unsafe due to the reckless behavior of distracted motorists.


Sure, a cyclist has a right to the lane, but if you don't have a good reason to hold someone else up, why do it?

Having a right to the lane is justification enough. Why must a cyclist need more justification? You are displaying a cyclist inferiority bias. (Motorists ought to be afforded superior access to the public roads, cyclists have an obligation to grovel in the gutter and stay out of the way.)

What is missing in this whole argument is the notion of common courtesy. If it's not safe to ride on the shoulder, then a cyclist should take the lane for safety. OTOH, if there is no safety reason to be in the lane, then it's a courtesy to get out of the lane and not impede traffic. Sure, a cyclist has a right to the lane, but if you don't have a good reason to hold someone else up, why do it?

Exactly. It's about safety, common sense, and common courtesy, in that order. This isn't rocket science. What a dumb debate.

Strange that someone riding with a group would not be riding in the group. If he wasn't with the group, and the group was on the paved shoulder to his right, then obviously he didn't have room on the shoulder to be there.

I completely agree with Chipseal in this matter.

I will shift to the right and use a paved shoulder or bike lane to extend the courtesy of ease of passing to motorists, but only if I determine the increased risk is acceptable under the circumstances, and I am the only person that makes this determination for me.

What I get from the OP is:
"Waaa, the mean cyclist made me slow down and delayed me on my piddly little errand, Waaaa.:cry:"