Northern California - $436 ticket for rolling through a red light in Sausalito

4. The fine is high because running red lights in a car is deadly but for bikes it's not. Even if you can't get the ticket thrown out for #1-3, you might get a reduced fine if you come across as a safe and courteous rider.

This is non valid logic.....if I am riding fast, run a red and hit a pedestrian.....there is a really good chance I will hurt or even kill the pedestrian. If I run a red light and car swerves to avoid me, hitting someone else...it has nothing to do with how how much mass and velocity there is with me an my bike. I have no argument with the statement that being hit by a redlight running car is more likely to cause major injury or death, but that is a long way from saying running a red light with a bike is not deadly....maybe not as deadly...but not safe, not non deadly.



I think you're mistaken if you think most cyclists want "equality." We don't want to be like car drivers. We want the law and the public to recognize that our "vehicle" is different in many, many ways to huge motor vehicles and should not be regulated in the same way. Until they do so, we will just carry on cycling however we want, in the way that we feel is safest for us or provides some other benefit. And if that means paying a few tickets over the course of our lives, then fine. (I'm not talking about doing anything dangerous: i'm talking about slightly rolling through vacant intersections and doing "idaho stops" at stop lights).

I disagree that this is what most cyclist want, I certainly don't The problem I see is that you are personally determining what is and is not dangerous. This is no different than a driver of a car determining what is or is not dangerous.

So an approach is to make a statement like "It is ok for (named vehicle) to do a rolling stop at a stop light" or "it is ok for a (named vehicle) to treat a stop sign like a yield if no cross traffic is seen" If you make the statement for a bicycle and say it is ok, can you make the same statemet for a motor cycle, a car, a truck? if not then it shouln't be ok for a bicylist to do that action. If you can say yes, then do it and lobby for a general traffic law change.

Over all what I see is a self centered view.....I;m a bicyclist I have the right to do this illegal action that is no different in thinking that a motorist view of ..... I'm in a car that bike doesn't have the right to be on this road.

Red is the new green for cyclists isn't it???
You broke the law. Kwitcherbellyakin'!

..., don't think I need that as I'm getting enough unsolicited "traffic school" advice here ;-)Did I not understand the post that started this thread?

Or has the meaning of "unsolicited" changed recently?

So an approach is to make a statement like "It is ok for (named vehicle) to do a rolling stop at a stop light" or "it is ok for a (named vehicle) to treat a stop sign like a yield if no cross traffic is seen" If you make the statement for a bicycle and say it is ok, can you make the same statemet for a motor cycle, a car, a truck? if not then it shouln't be ok for a bicylist to do that action. If you can say yes, then do it and lobby for a general traffic law change.



What if you say "Yes" for bikes because you're literally outside with much better awareness (sound & visibility) than you can have in a car or motorcycle helmet?

I hate to say it, but I'm much more hyper-vigilant about my surroundings when I ride than when I drive. Increased stopping distance and the propensity to lose lots of skin, if not my life, due to someone opening a car door or rolling too far into the street leads me to pay much closer attention. :twitchy:

Maybe I'm the only one though.

My point of view is that running a red on a bike is much closer to jaywalking than it is to driving through a red. What's the ticket for jaywalking? I've never even known anyone who's gotten one...
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Well the cop could of used discretion in this scenario and warned you...but the fact that it was a violation no matter what way you look at it, there is not much you can do. You have to know as a cyclist or a motorist, that if you run a red, you run the risk of being ticketed.

That said, I have been guilty of running red lights at a T intersection. Thing is there is a bike lane that runs along the top of the T...so when I pass the intersection, there isn't cross traffic. So I justify running that red light because there really is no chance of me getting hit...not unless someone is blind and doesn't see the dead end. Any ways I know when I do this I risk getting ticketed. I just tell myself that a cop would be smart enough to use descretion in that scenario seeing that I'm not posing any kind of safety hazard whatsoever.

So an approach is to make a statement like "It is ok for (named vehicle) to do a rolling stop at a stop light" or "it is ok for a (named vehicle) to treat a stop sign like a yield if no cross traffic is seen" If you make the statement for a bicycle and say it is ok, can you make the same statemet for a motor cycle, a car, a truck? if not then it shouln't be ok for a bicylist to do that action. If you can say yes, then do it and lobby for a general traffic law change.

Over all what I see is a self centered view.....I;m a bicyclist I have the right to do this illegal action that is no different in thinking that a motorist view of ..... I'm in a car that bike doesn't have the right to be on this road.

It won't bother me one bit if cars and trucks roll stop signs and lights in the same situations in which I'd do it on my bike. Because I'm talking about situations where no one else is around and won't be put in danger and won't be inconvenienced in any way. So go ahead and go already. Why sit there wasting time just 'cause a light is red in the middle of nowhere?

If someone guesses wrong and actually hits someone because it wasn't as clear as they thought it was, then punish them for that action (hitting someone). Severely. But if they manage to get through cleanly without causing any harm, then by definition, what they did was not dangerous and does not need to be punished in any way or discouraged.

please share your advice.

Move to New York.

a guy at work just got a ticket in the mail for running a stop light in Camarillo a couple weeks back. apparently he was caught on a camera and did not know it. any way the fine was $430 something too.

Just curious, what's the procedure for giving a cyclist a ticket? What if the cyclist doesn't have their driver's license?

Just curious, what's the procedure for giving a cyclist a ticket? What if the cyclist doesn't have their driver's license?

You have to identify yourself to a cop once he decides you've commited an infraction. I usually have a photocopy of my license but if you don't have that they can accept another form and even if you have nothing they'll call their office and find out what your driver's license is. If you have no identification they *can* take you to the copshop for identification. If you don't have a license they can still write you a ticket and a notice to appear in court.

.... If you have no identification they *can* take you to the copshop for identification.

This is a good thing to keep in mind before you give the officer any lip. Hard to believe, but some of them don't have a sense of humor.

Don't ask hoiw I know this. :D

If someone guesses wrong and actually hits someone because it wasn't as clear as they thought it was, then punish them for that action (hitting someone). Severely. But if they manage to get through cleanly without causing any harm, then by definition, what they did was not dangerous and does not need to be punished in any way or discouraged.

That doesnt help the person who was hit because someone guessed wrong. Bottom line, however irritating they may traffic laws and in place for safety, based on what has historically been unsafe. Very little if any of these are random, ie there are established standards on where to put yield signs vs stop signs.

Bottom line, however irritating they may traffic laws and in place for safety, based on what has historically been unsafe. Very little if any of these are random, ie there are established standards on where to put yield signs vs stop signs.

Ever see driving in India or Thailand or any 3rd world country? Your taking your life in your hands when ever you get on a street! Traffic laws make US roads very safe in comparison ;)

Ha, this pops up in the column above... http://www.trafficticketandduipartners.com/trafficticket/?gclid=CPnCwauc-ZkCFRMUagodSTdbFg Traffic laws are made for people with no common sense, thus we all suffer.

Here's an animation about "Idaho stops." It covers why we want to "run" stop signs and lights and why it makes sense and why it is not any more dangerous to treat a stop sign as a "yield" sign than a "stop".

http://bikeportland.org/2009/04/14/get-an-animated-lesson-in-bikes-stop-signs-and-the-idaho-stop-law/

Did I not understand the post that started this thread?

Or has the meaning of "unsolicited" changed recently?

I put forth my situation and asked, "how best to resolve the situation without having to pay the full amount of the fine. ... if you have any experience dealing with a similar ticket please share your advice." I did not ask for opinions on red light etiquette and frankly, I don't care about other people's opinions on the matter.

....I wonder....If I had received a speeding ticket in my car and went to a car forum to ask how best to deal with the ticket, would 90% of the responses focus on arguing the evils of speeding? I doubt it...

you can try to go to court and fight the ticket, however if you lose and traffic court is an option for you still, you lose that option too. If traffic court isn't an option you then I would go to trial, not sure about your area, but a lot of the local police now live outside there jurisdiction here and do not like going to traffic court on their days off so they often do not show. CHP on the other hand is always there.

I have been to a lot of traffic court trials and rarely does the defendant, and if they do its on a technicality such as the road had not been surveyed and the police were issuing speeding tickets on that road.

a guy at work just got a ticket in the mail for running a stop light in Camarillo a couple weeks back. apparently he was caught on a camera and did not know it. any way the fine was $430 something too.

Obviously this was in a car (with a license plate as identification) since there's no way a camera could identify a cyclist.

Squirdad, the logic is valid if we're talking about someone slowly rolling through an intersection on a bike after making sure there is no cross traffic, or rolling through a 3 way intersection, or making a right on red. The last 2 cases is where cyclists are getting busted and unfairly fined. I don't think anyone here would argue that a cyclist flying through a red light is not only stupid and dangerous, but deserves getting a ticket.

Today while riding through Sausalito I stopped and waited at every red light, but I did see an idiot out there who not only wasn't wearing a helmet, but was blowing through red lights without even slowing down. I was really hoping to see a Sausalito cop bust this guy since it's this kind of rider who gives the rest of us a bad name.

Obviously this was in a car (with a license plate as identification) since there's no way a camera could identify a cyclist.


Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. I was pointing out that the fine was the same at the other end of the state. Bicyclists are required to abide by the same rules and regulations as vehicles.

Abide by them, or get cited, the choice is yours to make dog. But don't complain if you get cited.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. I was pointing out that the fine was the same at the other end of the state. Bicyclists are required to abide by the same rules and regulations as vehicles.

Abide by them, or get cited, the choice is yours to make dog. But don't complain if you get cited.

Who you callin' dog?

Just curious, do you think a car going through a red light at 50mph should get the same fine as a cyclist rolling through a red light in a 3 way intersection (with no road to the cyclist's right)?

Do you think it's fair?

There is a difference between breaking the letter of the law and doing something dangerous.

Do you think the fine for driving 26mph in a 25mph zone should be the same as driving 50mph in a 25mph zone? Both are breaking the law, yet for some reason, cops usually don't pull people for going 26mph. Why is that? Maybe because it's not a huge safety hazard to the community.

I've just been trying to argue that cops should use discretion and not cite people if they're not doing anything dangerous, especially since the fine is so outrageous for the crime.

The officer acknowledged that I entered the light while it was yellow, but said the law is that you must be out of the interection before the light turns red. I'll be calling a few traffic lawyers tomorrow to find out what my real options are. I'm glad to see that in the other thread that Knotty posted another guy eventually got off with only a $50 fine after attending "Bike Safety School" haha. I have hope!

BTW, this all happened Monday, April 6 around 1:30 pm.

The officer either provided incorrect information or you misunderstood him. The front portion of your vehicle needs to clear the closest to inside crosswalk line ( curb line to curb line of no cross walk present) and you have the right away in the intersection. THat is why people pull out into the intersection while waiting to make a left turn, and often can only turn once the light turns red and stops the on coming traffic.

I would fight that ticket.

Who you callin' dog?

Just curious, do you think a car going through a red light at 50mph should get the same fine as a cyclist rolling through a red light in a 3 way intersection (with no road to the cyclist's right)?

Do you think it's fair?

There is a difference between breaking the letter of the law and doing something dangerous.

Do you think the fine for driving 26mph in a 25mph zone should be the same as driving 50mph in a 25mph zone? Both are breaking the law, yet for some reason, cops usually don't pull people for going 26mph. Why is that? Maybe because it's not a huge safety hazard to the community.

I've just been trying to argue that cops should use discretion and not cite people if they're not doing anything dangerous, especially since the fine is so outrageous for the crime.

Not all fines and penalties are the same. DUI on a bicycle is way different than DUI in a motor Vehicle. , Based upon what the OP said I don't think he violated the Law. but what i think doesn't count anyway.

Sausalito has always been pretty rough when it comes to traffic tickets,they are also stopping people walking out of bars and giving them dui test,that tells you how tough it is in Sausalito.