Advocacy & Safety - My Red Light Running Tutorial Vid got reviewd in Boston.

The Boston Bicycle Transportation Examiner reviewed my Red Light Running Tutorial vid and was much kinder, no, actually found MERIT in the video. Better treatment than I get from most of the A.H.s around here.

Here is the LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-3049-Boston-Bicycle-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m3d12-Dont-run-red-lights). Eat it.

The Boston Bicycle Transportation Examiner reviewed my Red Light Running Tutorial vid and was much kinder, no, actually found MERIT in the video. Better treatment than I get from most of the A.H.s around here.

Here is the LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-3049-Boston-Bicycle-Transportation-Examiner~y2009m3d12-Dont-run-red-lights). Eat it.


cool review. makes me happy to be from Boston. I wish more of us were so open minded. thanks for the link.:thumb:

How far ahead do you normally start tracking traffic? 3-4 blocks?

the reviewer finishes up with

"Oh, and don't run red lights."

How far ahead do you normally start tracking traffic? 3-4 blocks?

Pretty much one block at a time. I might look ahead into the second block. Things change so fast that looking far ahead is a waste of time. What I "see" is probably comparable to a football QB. I am looking up the field for openings but at the same time seeing what is happening very close by all at once. It's hard to explain as I don't really understand it myself and the helmet cam does not tell the story of what my eyes are actually doing.

The only advice I could give someone wanting to try that kind of riding would be to ride sober and focus on the "now". If you can't keep extraneous thoughts out of your head, try again another day.

Joey, that type of riding is definitely not my cup of tea. Even if I did that type of riding, I couldn't get away with it for very long since our town is too small, and just about everyone knows each other. At our last local cycling forum, the city, county, and state LEO's that were present stated that the would aggresively ticket redlight running cyclists as they would motorists.

At $275 just for the first pop, I would most definitely find other uses for that money other than lining the pockets of our city fathers even further.

Even if I did that type of riding, I couldn't get away with it for very long since our town is too small, and just about everyone knows each other.

I would suspect that few US cities lend themselves to running red lights without regard for getting a ticket. Even large cities like Denver and New York wage war against cyclists. New Orleans is more like a self-cleaning oven. Cops here tend to let things run their course until Darwin strikes.

I would suspect that few US cities lend themselves to running red lights without regard for getting a ticket. Even large cities like Denver and New York wage war against cyclists. New Orleans is more like a self-cleaning oven. Cops here tend to let things run their course until Darwin strikes.

Our LEO's probably would take a blind eye as well, but being that our city was ranked #1 out of 100 cities our size in our state for vehicliar/bicycle/ped deaths and accidents (currently #2), all sorts of monies/grants were made available for traffic enforcement.

Pretty much one block at a time. I might look ahead into the second block. Things change so fast that looking far ahead is a waste of time. What I "see" is probably comparable to a football QB. I am looking up the field for openings but at the same time seeing what is happening very close by all at once. It's hard to explain as I don't really understand it myself and the helmet cam does not tell the story of what my eyes are actually doing.

The only advice I could give someone wanting to try that kind of riding would be to ride sober and focus on the "now". If you can't keep extraneous thoughts out of your head, try again another day.

Oh I have no interest in trying. I prefer cautious. I'm just curious what goes on in your brain when you do it. In the video you seemed to, at least occasionally, identify stuff 2 blocks ahead and I wondered how far you were starting.

I will look a couple blocks ahead for the status of the lights to see if I should speed up or relax because it's gonna turn anyway.

cool review. makes me happy to be from Boston. I wish more of us were so open minded. thanks for the link.:thumb:

What else would you expect from the state that gave us Dropkick Murphy's ! :D
Joeybike is my advocacy superhero :thumb:

the reviewer finishes up with

"Oh, and don't run red lights."

And the reviewer started up with "It's a bad idea".

Speedo

Reviewer have to cover his ass.

Joey style of riding makes perfect sense for the conditions he's riding in. He doesnt pretend to be a car or a pedestrian, he knows exactly what he is driving, he knows his vehicle strength and weaknesses, he knows his terrain and his 'enemies', and he wages war in accordance to his advantages. I take some of Joey advice into my riding style (though honestly I lack the riding skills to ride like Joey) and I find myself a lot safer then when I was pretending to be a car.

Works fine in low speed fairly low density city grid traffic.

It would work in my downtown (and I know I have done the same when younger, more nimble, and faster)

Won't work at all on the typical 50+ MPH multi-laned "urban freeways" (arterial roads) we have outside of downtown... except perhaps during well off peak traffic hours. (yes, at times even those roads can be near empty) At commuting times however, steady high speed traffic makes this sort of red light running impossible around here.

I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.

I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.

But bikes and cars are very different things. It doesn't make sense to have one set of rules for both.

I dunno I do this at work all the time in my car, visualizing how many times I could easily make it across red lights safely.

But you know, acknowledging that I'm breaking a law and all I don't do it.

If red was yield though the roads would be heaven for me.

Also I do see how much easier it is to do this in city streets where cars seem so sluggish, around almost anywhere else you'd need to be aware that someone is going to come blowing through at 45 mph one time. I also do it multiple blocks up being as iffy cycles can make me change my route.

TBH: If you don't so much as disrupt the flow of traffic, you're fine, if someone so much as touches their brakes, you fail.


But bikes and cars are very different things. It doesn't make sense to have one set of rules for both.
Which that argument immediately put bikes in the bike lane only. If it's a vehicle, treat it as such, if not, bike lane.

Reviewer have to cover his ass.

Joey style of riding makes perfect sense for the conditions he's riding in. He doesnt pretend to be a car or a pedestrian, he knows exactly what he is driving, he knows his vehicle strength and weaknesses, he knows his terrain and his 'enemies', and he wages war in accordance to his advantages. I take some of Joey advice into my riding style (though honestly I lack the riding skills to ride like Joey) and I find myself a lot safer then when I was pretending to be a car.

I like that phrase "when I was pretending to be a car." Occasionally when I am riding I have thought of myself as an amphibian--I can behave (responsibly) as a car or a pedestrian depending on the situation. We have a talk show host in Boston and that behavior really irks him. When I send him an E-mail, I refer to myself as his "Number One Fan among Boston's Bicycle Commuters." :lol:

Which that argument immediately put bikes in the bike lane only. If it's a vehicle, treat it as such, if not, bike lane.

That doesn't follow at all. The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.

I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.


What you're saying certainly makes sense from the auto drivers perspective and given that our transportation system is "autocentric" cyclists are pretty much resigned to accept this status quo or ride like an outlaw (ie. Joeybike et al).

But the reality that is often ignored is that a cyclist is a human powered vehicle and really is subject to other parameters that the auto is not. Therefore logically we really should treat most traffic lights differently, stop signs differently, lane use differently and even, occasionally find ourselves on sidewalks and pathways inaccessible to the auto. This POV is, unfortunately, not terribly "political" and would probably go over like a lead balloon with the general public and even among some cyclists but it's far more realistic and pragmatic than all of us adhering to the same set of rules.

Thanks for pissing off more drivers op. You should give them all the finger as you run through intersections.

Thanks for pissing off more drivers op. You should give them all the finger as you run through intersections.

No one is pissed off that I am aware of. At least, no one is blowing their horn or anything. In my town, my style really is not an issue.

Now, if you want mad motorists here, stop at the light IN FRONT of them! They will be blowing horns before the light turns green.

My riding style is very polite. I do my best to stay out of their way.

No one is pissed off that I am aware of. At least, no one is blowing their horn or anything. In my town, my style really is not an issue.

Now, if you want mad motorists here, stop at the light IN FRONT of them! They will be blowing horns before the light turns green.

My riding style is very polite. I do my best to stay out of their way.

That's it Joey. Stay out of their way. I'm in Baton Rouge and no car comes to a complete stop at a stop sign here. If I was to pretend to be the ambassador of cycling and stop at all signs and signals, I'd pi$$ off a lot of drivers. They'd probably call the cops on me for that instead of cruising on through.

I have been hassled by the cops for taking the lane, but that lasted about a week and went away when I didn't.

I have been hassled by the cops for taking the lane, but that lasted about a week and went away when I didn't.

Taking a Lane vs. Obstructing Traffic. I bet there is a really blurry line between those two concepts in the minds of cops. I am glad you wore them out on that issue.

That doesn't follow at all. The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.
What vehicles other than bikes do you see that are allowed to run lights? So far it's the only exception you want, which is not in place as a law.

While different vehicles may have different laws, generally they have a main set of laws that are similar pertaining to traffic flow and safety.

The question remains, why should all vehicles have to abide by the same set of rules when they have vastly different sets of capabilities and limitations? Simply classifying them all as "vehicles" doesn't mean they are at all similar.

So we can understand, and predict what the other vehicles are going to do.

If you look through JoeyBike's videos you'll find one where a pickup ran a stop sign in front of him. JoeyBike had plenty of time to react, dodge around the rear of the truck, and even comment on it for the benefit of his video audience. But somehow, it incensed him that a car should do what he feels is perfectly fine doing himself. So he swore at the driver and punched the rear of the truck.

If it's okay for a biker to make his own judgement about when it is okay to run red lights and stop signs, then it is equally okay for an automobile driver to make a similar judgement. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. People who advocate the concept that everyone make up their own rules are advocating for total anarchy in the streets.

Speedo

So we can understand, and predict what the other vehicles are going to do.

I am happy that motorists are predictable where you ride.


People who advocate the concept that everyone make up their own rules are advocating for total anarchy in the streets.

There are more places in this world that allow traffic in general to do whatever they want than there are Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA. Somehow, they manage to fall short of total anarchy.

I have a problem with what the video's author seems to be advocating. If I demand a right to the lane and that motorized vehicles respect my right to the lane and treat me as anther vehicle don't I then have the responsibility to adhere to the same rules that I want the cars to obey.

Sort of... yet:


But bikes and cars are very different things. It doesn't make sense to have one set of rules for both.

In another thread, I posted that I'll roll through stop signs or cross on red when it's safe -- not because it gives me a time advantage, but because it puts me through the intersection separately from motor vehicles. That actually makes it safer than trying to do the same thing as cars and trucks.

I hadn't realized it until after riding in Germany where they not only have separate lanes for bikes but also separate traffic signals. Sometimes, bikes and peds go at the same time, but sometimes even they're separate, so a big intersection might have three different light cycles for each approach route. The result is that nobody's competing for the same space. I can ride among busy traffic here, but I don't have to do it there.

So why do it on a bike and not in my car? Partly because I'd be ticketed while in the car, but also because I can see better from the bike (no A-pillar to get in the way), it's narrower, and it's a lot shorter, meaning that I don't intrude as far into an intersection if I have to slow down and creep to look.

I am happy that motorists are predictable where you ride.


I'm actually a fan of your videos. They are fun to watch. My general observation is that you are relying on a fair amount of predictability on the part of the auto traffic. Witness the case of the stop sign running truck. It did not behave in the predictable way, and it frustrated and angered you.



There are more places in this world that allow traffic in general to do whatever they want than there are Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA. Somehow, they manage to fall short of total anarchy.

:lol: But they do have anarchy in the streets!

Again your actions speak louder than your words. You aren't a rules junkie, but you do want everyone else to be. If you weren't a hypocrite about this you would have greeted that pickup truck driver as a kindred spirit.

Speedo

I am happy that motorists are predictable where you ride.



There are more places in this world that allow traffic in general to do whatever they want than there are Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA. Somehow, they manage to fall short of total anarchy.

Even though they may not hit each other, I prefer our local streets than in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwvMR0OxiPg)

Even though they may not hit each other, I prefer our local streets than in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwvMR0OxiPg)

While nobody gets hit in that video, that doesn't mean that people don't get hit and hurt. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 people a year are killed on India's roads and they have fewer cars per capita than in the U.S.

"India’s mortality rate is 14 for every 10,000 vehicles — seven times that of the developed world."

From: http://tinyurl.com/dh36d9

Speedo

There are more places in this world that allow traffic in general to do whatever they want than there are Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA. Somehow, they manage to fall short of total anarchy.
You welcome praise while ignoring well-deserved criticism.

Spout all the nonsense you want about "Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA" but it's a crock. Bicyclists can pretty much do whatever they want in the good old USA.

Alarmist rhetoric by bicyclists nothwithstanding, as long as what bicyclists do is not unreasonable, motorists don't give a rat's behind.

And, for the most part, cops have more important things to do than worry about bicyclists, unless, of course, they want to stop a bicyclist because they don't like the way the bicyclist looks -- but racial profiling is another story.

Get your message straight and you'll be more credible.

You welcome praise while ignoring well-deserved criticism.

Spout all the nonsense you want about "Puritanical, rule-junkie places like the USofA" but it's a crock. Bicyclists can pretty much do whatever they want in the good old USA.

Alarmist rhetoric by bicyclists nothwithstanding, as long as what bicyclists do is not unreasonable, motorists don't give a rat's behind.

And, for the most part, cops have more important things to do than worry about bicyclists, unless, of course, they want to stop a bicyclist because they don't like the way the bicyclist looks -- but racial profiling is another story.

Get your message straight and you'll be more credible.

What would you consider unreasonable?

If you weren't a hypocrite about this you would have greeted that pickup truck driver as a kindred spirit.

Had that driver just nailed the accelerator, he would be a kindred spirit. It happens ten times a day and I never give it a second thought, even if I have to slow down a tad. In traffic here driving a car, you gotta make your move. That's that.

If you look at that video carefully, you will see him roll well past the stop sign and STOP. The windows were heavily tinted so I really can't be sure he was even looking my way, but my PERCEPTION was that he looked for oncoming traffic, saw a cyclist, and disregarded me as a "non-moving object". It was the total disregard for a cyclist in plain view that angered me. I FELT, at the time, that he did what he did on purpose. I watch the video again and I stand by that. I most certainly could have avoided contact, that I will concede.

If you look at that video carefully, you will see him roll well past the stop sign and STOP. The windows were heavily tinted so I really can't be sure he was even looking my way, but my PERCEPTION was that he looked for oncoming traffic, saw a cyclist, and disregarded me as a "non-moving object". It was the total disregard for a cyclist in plain view that angered me. I FELT, at the time, that he did what he did on purpose. I watch the video again and I stand by that. I most certainly could have avoided contact, that I will concede.

In the video description you say that you gave him the finger and that's what caused him to stop. As far as I can tell that's what happened.

In a world where we allow people to make up the rules that suit them, why is it wrong for the driver of a car or truck to disregard a cyclist that has the right of way? In a world where people are making up their own rules what does it mean to have the right of way? You are not a threat. You were never at risk. You can slow down and go around them. Why shouldn't you just slow down and go around them? They got into the intersection before you. Deal with it. What are you some kind of rules junkie?

Clearly, I'm playing devils advocate. I think what that truck did was wrong. But when you start saying it's okay for everyone to bend (break? shatter?) the rules, where does it stop?

I was thinking about another feature of your riding style. Creeping over just to the left of a double yellow line and passing cars on the left. In the videos, to me at least, that seemed heart stopingly dangerous. But when I thought about it, if there isn't much in the way of oncoming traffic, that's not a bad place to be. The reason is that there's pretty much no way the cars (driven apparently by rules junkies) are going to cross the double yellow. So it's safe because the cars are following the rules. Now what if the car drivers decided to drive like Joey Bike rides. If the left hand side of the road is clear, just pop over and speed up the wrong way to get a few car lengths advantage. Suddenly that double yellow line which was protecting you from the left wouldn't be offering so much protection. So, another case where you are taking advantage of the fact that others are following the rules. Despite your protestation to the contrary, I suspect that you would be very unhappy in a world where others had your sense of, well, flexibility, with regard to the traffic laws.

Speedo

Sorry for the length on this one, I'm trying to cover a lot of ground...

I'd like to say that I like joeybike's vids. I was amazed at the thought process involved in analizing your technique, good work. However I did notice that they are sped up a bit, maybe 1.5-2x speed, which makes them seem much more sketchy than they really are.

I have nearly always "rolled" stop signs, usually while making right turns, but due to fast moving arterial roads I don't run reds. I have however, been asserting my rights to the "substandard width lanes" where I ride while trying to not be too in the way of the cagers.

I have noticed a few things though. When taking a right turn at a light with a right turn lane I go to the driver's side of the lane and slip around. I came to this decision after being run into the curb one too many times by a driver looking upstream and not looking back before turning. And when waiting to go through a light (not running it), I stay to the left to allow cars to make their right hand turn.

As I recall the truck incident in the vid, I seem to recall it much the way joeybike explained it, the hesitation and then disregard for an approaching cyclist, however it is also possible that the driver recognized him and felt it was time for a little payback. There is the argument for not following joeybike's advice, this will not work everywhere all the time.

As for those who feel that one should be restricted to the bike lane (given there is one), there was a female cyclist killed in jax this past monday while riding in the bike lane http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2009-04-13/story/1_dead_1_injured_in_southside_crash_involving_bicycles.

Most of the posted comments argue that the bike lane placement is to blame, not the motorist (lanes run between through and turn lanes, where they belong). Unfotunately that was overshadowed by the 5 dead in boating accident, which was completely avoidable (not that there is ever any real followup anyway on bike deaths). And the complaints about the large group ride that takes up an affluent backroad.

So after all that, its my opinion that cyclists should assert themselves in a way that can be mutually beneficial, take the lane at a fair speed, leave lights early to get out of the way, be curtious and recognize those who do the same, ignore those who don't and always keep moving (its harder to hit a moving target).

In the video description you say that you gave him the finger and that's what caused him to stop.

At this point in the video, he is "virtually" stopped (less than walking speed) for the stop sign and I am rolling 18 mph.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=101795&stc=1&d=1240190267

From here, he pulled out without the slightest regard for a cyclist (me). That is maddening, I don't care who you are. I freely admit that I should not have flipped him off, but I think anyone in my position would have thought WTF? at least.


Why shouldn't you just slow down and go around them? They got into the intersection before you. Deal with it. What are you some kind of rules junkie?

At the red hot moment, I thought it was an act of intent. If someone throws a soda bottle out of a moving car at you, but misses, would you just deal with it? Let it go?


Creeping over just to the left of a double yellow line and passing cars on the left. In the videos, to me at least, that seemed heart stopingly dangerous. But when I thought about it, if there isn't much in the way of oncoming traffic, that's not a bad place to be. The reason is that there's pretty much no way the cars (driven apparently by rules junkies) are going to cross the double yellow. So it's safe because the cars are following the rules. Now what if the car drivers decided to drive like Joey Bike rides. If the left hand side of the road is clear, just pop over and speed up the wrong way to get a few car lengths advantage. Suddenly that double yellow line which was protecting you from the left wouldn't be offering so much protection. So, another case where you are taking advantage of the fact that others are following the rules. Despite your protestation to the contrary, I suspect that you would be very unhappy in a world where others had your sense of, well, flexibility, with regard to the traffic laws.

True. My style works because others obey the rules. I found a useful loophole that works for me. If the situation were different, I would adapt to that situation too. I would not follow some silly laws that often endanger me needlessly.

Despite your protestation to the contrary, I suspect that you would be very unhappy in a world where others had your sense of, well, flexibility, with regard to the traffic laws.

Speedo

Exactly... this works for limited individuals who are taking advantage of others and a pre-established system that is designed for motorists.

As long as cyclists represent a tiny tiny percent of road users out there (typically less than 1% in the US), we can just about get away with anything, with little repercussion... which is why Joey Bike methods work and are often used by messengers. Of course again these methods work largely due to the low road speeds in the environment under which Joey operates.

However, if cyclists ever become a significant portion of the users of the roadways in the US, while "road chaos" may ensue; on the other hand, the large gaps left by the lack of autos and by much narrower bicycles, will probably encourage a more "organic" use of the roadways, as exemplified in places like China and Vietnam. I really don't think Joey and others would be "unhappy" under those circumstances at all.

I'm really sad he didn't throw the truck into reverse like most rednecks that drive trucks like that would when you beat on their beloved penis size compensator.

True. My style works because others obey the rules.


Exactly... this works for limited individuals who are taking advantage of others and a pre-established system that is designed for motorists.


I've recently had cause to do a lot of thinking about the kinematics of cars running stop signs. I came to the conclusion that without some faith that cars would stop, or at least slow, for cylists with the right of way at stop signs it would be quite a challenge to get anywhere. I would dread a world where we all just make up the traffic rules we want. Hopefully, this view that it is perfectly all right to ignore traffic laws at our whim is a minority view and not a growth view among cyclists.

Speedo

I've recently had cause to do a lot of thinking about the kinematics of cars running stop signs. I came to the conclusion that without some faith that cars would stop, or at least slow, for cylists with the right of way at stop signs it would be quite a challenge to get anywhere. I would dread a world where we all just make up the traffic rules we want. Hopefully, this view that it is perfectly all right to ignore traffic laws at our whim is a minority view and not a growth view among cyclists.

Speedo

Would you allow for breaking certain laws if you thought they were detrimental to your safety, and that breaking them caused no one else any harm and made things just a little easier for you?

I'm not talking about any specific laws here (not even talking about cycling). Just in general.

I also think you're making a mistake by thinking that Joey (and others) would ride the way he does no matter the circumstances. His main philosophy (it seems to me) is staying out of people's way as much as possible. I can't see how that's a bad thing. If total anarchy really did reign on the streets, I suspect his riding style would change while his philosophy would stay the same.

The reason we have traffic laws is because people can't be counted on to cooperate with each other and do what's safe. This is not a problem with Joey.

I suspect more than a couple of pedestrians in this video with close passed by joey in a crosswalk a bit too close for comfort. I don't think it's kosher to give grandma a coronary because joey's in a hurry to video his juvenile, ho-hum 'split a one lane traffic street' - the same, very tame street in ALL his videos- in the french quarter like he's riding midtown manhattan.

Would you allow for breaking certain laws if you thought they were detrimental to your safety, and that breaking them caused no one else any harm and made things just a little easier for you?

I'm not talking about any specific laws here (not even talking about cycling). Just in general.

I also think you're making a mistake by thinking that Joey (and others) would ride the way he does no matter the circumstances. His main philosophy (it seems to me) is staying out of people's way as much as possible. I can't see how that's a bad thing. If total anarchy really did reign on the streets, I suspect his riding style would change while his philosophy would stay the same.

The reason we have traffic laws is because people can't be counted on to cooperate with each other and do what's safe. This is not a problem with Joey.

There's another reason as well; local, state, and federal governments don't like having to subsidize individuals who received life long or long term disabilitating injuries from traffic accidents more than they have to.

I suspect more than a couple of pedestrians in this video with close passed by joey in a crosswalk a bit too close for comfort. I don't think it's kosher to give grandma a coronary because joey's in a hurry to video his juvenile, ho-hum 'split a one lane traffic street' - the same, very tame street in ALL his videos- in the french quarter like he's riding midtown manhattan.

It seems to me that Joey doesn't really buzz by anyone too closely. I think I've seen real time vids of ny messengers that zip through thicker groups a walkers with less concern. And yes the streets all seem quite tame, Joey's speed is exagerated by the vid speed.

Joey Brooks Raw (http://www.vimeo.com/1979877)
He writes: "Several people have asked me to produce a bicycling video without background music or accelerated speed.

No doubt my most boring work yet, this production is only edited for length, cutting out some boring stretches on back streets with no traffic.

All of this video is produced with natural sound and speed. "

Please tell us, what is your usual ave speed when you are riding and how much do you speed the video for entertainment?

Just curious, like I said I have little problem with everything you are doing, but I wouldn't condone it for everyone either.

you think peds don't mind getting buzzed by bicyclists when they have the right of way in a crosswalk? (his video of a street festival in his town really showed some close pass clips of peds in the crosswalks..

joey's such a BA for riding that one lane, one way street in the french quarter like it's midtown.

I'm STILL waiting for some vids from joey riding six lane, exurban 50mph arterials and his red light running skills there....

Well to be fair you don't have to BUZZ them, you can easily pass while giving them loads of room which I do often.

@joeybike: love the video, shame we can't really use techniques like that in London. The traffic is usually quite close together and the roads aren't really wide enough. However I do take left turns on reds and go through pedestrian lights. I find it does keep me a bit safer with regards to getting stuck next to / infront of big lorries.

I don't believe that is at all what could be implied by what I wrote. It's my opinion that Joey doesn't seem to be as close and fast as the camera and video speed make it appear.

I'm sure that if peds were polled they would feel much the same about being "buzzed" by a cyclist as we feel about cars. However I think that our pespective is thrown off by the camera's lense and the playback speed.

I recently got an inexpensive toy helmet cam and was disappointed in the reality, I guess, of my short commute. I barely recognized the roads that I ride everyday, it seemed like I was going half my real speed and passing cars seemed to pop out of nowhere and nearly clip my hand. I assure you they were not always that close.

Also, I do think I stated that I do not support everything that Joey is doing. I can however see some benefit in the ability to use certain aspects of his techniques, particularly those that make him more visible while attempting to stay out of the way.

you think peds don't mind getting buzzed by bicyclists when they have the right of way in a crosswalk? (his video of a street festival in his town really showed some close pass clips of peds in the crosswalks..

joey's such a BA for riding that one lane, one way street in the french quarter like it's midtown.

I'm STILL waiting for some vids from joey riding six lane, exurban 50mph arterials and his red light running skills there....
I'm pretty sure there are several videos set on high speed arterials, including but not limited to the last minute or so of the 'jaywalking' video. (i think, i can't get on vimeo here)

Would you allow for breaking certain laws if you thought they were detrimental to your safety, and that breaking them caused no one else any harm and made things just a little easier for you?

I'm not talking about any specific laws here (not even talking about cycling). Just in general.


To use JoeyBike's colorful phrase, I am not a "Rules Junkie". I accept that in practice people don't follow the letter of the law. But you need to be very careful about what you want, and what you mean.

Let's take something nice and simple and easy like rolling through a stop sign. Bikes roll through stop signs. Cars roll through stop signs. You approach the stop line, nobody there, you just roll through. It's safe, what's the problem? The intersection of South Road and Hartwell Road in Bedford Massachusetts is just such an intersection. It's a wide open T intersection. Cars approach from the Hartwell side (the bottom of the T), can see the intersection is clear, tap their brakes in deference to the stop sign, and then go. It's safe 'cause it's so wide open. What's the problem?

Speedo

Actually, rules aren't always as helpful as we think:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html

Although, I've spent some time in Mumbai, and that is chaos. Or, the order is a higher level than I can see when in its midst. But sometimes anarchy can lead to a calm order. ("Anarchy" is not synonymous with chaos or lack of order, although sometimes it is incorrectly used that way).

By the way, the two most successful big city cycling cultures, in Amsterdam and Copenhagen, sort of represent the two different philosophies to some extent. Copenhagen is all rule-based formal system solutions, whereas Amsterdam relies much more on the ubiquitous cycling culture. Pro-biking planning committees from America will find more from the Copenhagen model that can be implemented top-down. This recently happened with a group from Portland that visited both places I noticed.

Here's a video of a woman from Copenhagen riding around Amsterdam with a guy from Amsterdam as they discuss the difference in cycling in the two cities. Notice at the end she expresses amazement that Amsterdam works for cycling without the lights regulating it. Also, you see how they ride with the pedestrians, whereas in Copenhagen pedestrians and bikes are kept much more separated.
http://vimeo.com/1436751?pg=embed&sec=1436751

I'm pretty sure there are several videos set on high speed arterials, including but not limited to the last minute or so of the 'jaywalking' video. (i think, i can't get on vimeo here)

you mean the 'high speed arterials' he's passing the cars on despite there being no traffic congestion?

HARDLY.