Touring - Surly LHT sizing, pretty confused...

I just got back from the bike shop and had some simple sizing measurements. This was because I was thinking of purchasing
a Surly Long Haul Trucker.
My measurements:
Feet: 25.5
Inseam: 80.8
Torso: 56.4
Arm: 60.2

He used a slide type calculator with the feet and inseam to derive:52/84-86 >69.0

Added the Torso with the Arm Length to get 116.6 close to 61cm minus 11 (stem length?)=50.

I told him to focus on the top tube length for me, and he felt that best frame combo was the 46cm frame rather than the 50cm. That the 50cm would have too long a top tube.

I was kind of shocked. He pointed out the TT(Effec.) on the LHT chart on the 46cm frame was 515.0 and the 52cm frame was 530.0, which he felt was too drawn out for me
to have a comfortable upright riding position.

But I was surprised in pointing out that the Head Tube length with the 46cm frame was 116.7 mm and the 50 jumped to a 144.0mm length (HT) What's up with that?
Wouldn't I then need more spacers to get the handlebars up to the saddle height?

And what is the deal of not offering a 48cm frame? Why the jump from 46 to 50????

Thanks for any advice and help.

Here is the frame geometry page from Surly
http://www.surlybikes.com/longhaul.html

It kills me that they cut the steerer tube. If you order the complete bike, which is the way to go, they cut it. Only if you order the frame and fork, does it come uncut. I stand corrected.
Must have been bad information. Thanks, guys.

Lyndon
Confused and Dazed in Salt Lake City

Most people are in the 50 to 60 range; the reason they skip sizes is for practicality.

I would trust him if he worked in a bike shop, fitted you, and told you that size. You can fix a frame that's a bit too small to fit you. You can't go the other direction very easily.

Best not to be frustrated with it though. If it really bothers you, it may be best to build it up or look at a trek 520 (which comes in different sizes) or some other bike.

I am 5'5" got fitted at lbs and ended up with a 46cm bike I was told the same thing about the 50cm bike being to long,I think the 46cm was to small because I feel squenched up when rideing.The ride is so uncomfortable I'm miserable.I would suggest you test ride a bike before buying.

5' 6" here and ride a 50cm frame. My wife is a half inch shorter and she rides a 50cm frame as well.

I am 5'5" got fitted at lbs. They recommended a 50. I went with a 52.
I based this decision on Rivendell's bike sizing chart (it recommended a 54 Atlantis based on my pubic bone height, and the Atlantis and LHT are very similar in dimensions). I thought a 50 would be too small and the 54 too long, so compromised with the 52. The LBS said if it seemed too big, they would build a 50 for me. After the test ride, the 52 worked perfect, although the 50 would likely have been worked also, if adjusted properly.

Your measurements may differ. Take a test ride!

We ordered LHT completes last year. They come (came) with the steer tubes uncut. From my Surly email exchanges:

Steerer tube length is 300mm.
All complete LHTs do come with the steerer tube uncut.
Thanks for asking!
Emily
Surly Bikes

We had the LBS leave ours uncut until we got things dialed in.

Thanks for the feedback, but Studchicken says:

Your measurements may differ. Take a test ride!

Easier said than done.
I've posted on the Google Surly LHT/X-check forum for anyone who has a 50/52 in Salt Lake to test ride and have had ZERO responses. :cry:

Dellphinus,
I will contact "Emily" about the uncut steering tube. Thank you for that information!:thumb:

Lyndon

There are no bike shops there which will let you test ride one?

The steer tube indeed comes uncut. It has like three 1" spacers on it.

Only one shop even had one in stock, and he sold it three weeks ago. All the rest are just listed as Surly dealers, QBP, who isn't???
But not one in a shop, no.

Kuan,
I love the wicker basket, and shopping panniers. Better be careful, or the Velo or Rivendell fashion police will be all over you!
Man, you really have that Brooks tilted way up on the nose! How could that be comfortable?
To each his own.
Lyndon

Lyndy, that actually works. I did tilt it back down a notch though. It's my wife's bike, she rides it tilted up a bit. Actually it's tilted up a bit too on my bike.

You should see the bike yesterday. We put on MKS stainless half clips and sewed leathers onto the toeclips. I can feel the Rivpolice breathing down my neck already!

To see what other people who are similarly sized are using, check out this Google Spreadsheet:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw

Also, everyone else can feel free to add their info to make this an even better resource. Maybe I will make a nice graph once we get a bit more data.

Yes, I have been reading the Google LHT/CrossCheck postings for nearly a year.
That spreadsheet will get better with more entries, but all it tells me is that generally,
people who were 5'7" got the 50cm frame.
More information about Pubic Bone Height (true standover), and for me, torso and arm length reach are
very, very helpful.
As others have mentioned, it is really too bad that towns the size of Salt Lake, along the Wasatch Front, don't have at least one LBS that has one in stock.:(

...More information about Pubic Bone Height (true standover), and for me, torso and arm length reach are very, very helpful.(
In that spirit... I've posted this in other threads, hope it helps.

- - - - - - - - - - -
My wife is 5'4", and somewhere around 125 lbs (she won't tell me :) ). We went round and round on measurements, bike specs, stem lengths, etc -- and she now rides a 50cm LHT. She says it's perfect for her, and I can see that it's ideal, too.

I built the bike, so we chose stem/handlebars/cranks based on her fit. It's possible a stock LHT might have to be tweaked a bit for a better fit -- but she's never ridden a pre-built one.

I wrote to Surly for advice when I bought our frames, and they were helpful. My wife seemed to be between the 46cm and the 50cm sizes, and they agreed that the 50cm was probably better.

If this helps, here are my wife's measurements (all barefoot):
height: 162.5cm 64.0"
floor to sternum: 133.5cm 52.5"
floor to pubic bone: 76.0cm 29.8"
arm (ribs to palm): 59.0cm 23.2"
shoulder width: 37.5cm 14.5"
weight/shoe size: 125 lbs/7.5 women's (to show she's average build...)
- - - - - - - - - - - - -

-- Mark

I can tell you with confidence (I've sold many LHTs) that the steerer comes uncut. If it's low, the shop cut it down.

Regarding "if the bike is a bit small, you can adjust it" wrong. A bike too small will force the saddle up, compromising the ability to get the bars up to a comfortable touring position.

Buy the bike that comes closest to your actual standover max. Then you'll be able to minimize the amount of excess steerer and still have the bars at or above saddle height -- which is where most cyclotourists will want them to be.

This issue has become a common problem with the advent of threadless front ends and abandonment of quill stems. Most off-the-peg bikes have had the decision made at the manufacturer, or shops will chop the steerer upon assembly. One of the nice things about Surly is they wisely leave the decision up to the shop/customer.

Absolutely, take advantage of this.

P.S. You say your inseam = 80.8. Why then wouldn't you be on a 54?

To see what other people who are similarly sized are using, check out this Google Spreadsheet:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pdb5rlL1ns0XLxM31WpvkCw

Also, everyone else can feel free to add their info to make this an even better resource. Maybe I will make a nice graph once we get a bit more data.


Also, don't forget to add your name on the second sheet in the lower left corner "Check out a LHT B4 you buy" if you'd be willing to let someone either test ride or at minimum stand over your LHT.

I can tell you with confidence (I've sold many LHTs) that the steerer comes uncut. If it's low, the shop cut it down.

Regarding "if the bike is a bit small, you can adjust it" wrong. A bike too small will force the saddle up, compromising the ability to get the bars up to a comfortable touring position.

Buy the bike that comes closest to your actual standover max. Then you'll be able to minimize the amount of excess steerer and still have the bars at or above saddle height -- which is where most cyclotourists will want them to be.

This issue has become a common problem with the advent of threadless front ends and abandonment of quill stems. Most off-the-peg bikes have had the decision made at the manufacturer, or shops will chop the steerer upon assembly. One of the nice things about Surly is they wisely leave the decision up to the shop/customer.

Absolutely, take advantage of this.

P.S. You say your inseam = 80.8. Why then wouldn't you be on a 54?

+1. My standover is 80. 54 is what I ride... (yes, it's less than the recommended 1" of clearance, but it's fine...)

Well, thanks to all you guys for your thoughts.
A BikeForum member, Al, has clued me to a small nearby shop that has built some LHT's, and the owner may have a 52" frame ordered for someone coming in. This would allow me to really see where things are at for me.
I have done so much bike touring surfing in the past week that I have lost count of what I have seen!:D
Except for someone's amazing reconditioning of a 80's Specialized Expedition with a super Imron paint job.
Whew! Find me one of those steel bikes with the quill stem!

Anyway, so things are looking up for a real test drive, and I hope it is sooner than later.
Now I got to plan for a weekend in Moab for a totally different type of riding.

Thanks again, guys! I appreciate it!:thumb:

Well, very interesting evening of trying bikes.
Very illuminating. So I go to this fellow who runs a bike shop mostly out of his love of bikes.
He did not have a Long Haul Trucker in my size, but had an older blue frame and a current one that were huge for me.
He started out measuring my old Randonee, and then put me on a Huron, which felt great, though a little long in the hoods. It was a 53cm frame. Now the Huron has what I call the Rivendell philosophy, meaning a large head tube and a wonderful quill stem. Then he put me on a Atlantis (2) that felt great and it was a 53+cm frame. I couldn't judge that one as well, because of the moustache handlebars.
Basically he said I would not be happy with the 46cm, and that I should be choosing between the 52cm and the 54cm frame. With my pubic bone measurement of 80.8 cm, and the 54cm frame stand over is 31.2 or 793.1, should I go for it, or the 52cm standover of 30.5 or 775.1cm?
The bike shop dealer said that with shoes, and the fact the frame has the 26" wheels, he would suggest the
54cm.
Lyndon
Salt Lake City

If you are concerned about head tube height being too low maybe you should look at some 700C bikes.

The 48cm 520 has an ETT of 52.2 and SO of 71.5. I don't know if the ETT would be a bit long for you, but seeing as it has 700C wheels the 95mm head tube might work out to be higher. Maybe running a 20mm shorter stem to compensate for the longer ETT might work?

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/520/520/

The Fuji Touring is also 700C and has a 100mm head tube but it probably wouldn't work for you because the smallest 43cm version still has an ETT of 53.5.

Fuji Touring (http://www.fujibikes.com/Specialty/Touring/Touring.aspx)

and then put me on a Huron, which felt great, though a little long in the hoods. It was a 53cm frame. Now the Huron has what I call the Rivendell philosophy, meaning a large head tube and a wonderful quill stem. Then he put me on a Atlantis (2) that felt great and it was a 53+cm frame. I couldn't judge that one as well, because of the moustache handlebars.

I'd compare the effective top tubes on these bikes to the LHT. Don't look at standover, look at your reach. I'm guessing a 54cm LHT will come closest, and if so, it's the bike to go with.

I think you should decide between the 52 and 54 cm based on reach. You say the Huron 53cm was a bit long...Can you compare this with the LHT? Maybe you should go with the 52cm?

Also, there are lbs's that can take all your measurements and determine what bike size is right for you (given your riding style) and then order it. Getting into the ball park this way, you are then able to make minor changes (like changing the stem and handlebars) that will probably result in a perfectly-fitting bike for you. That is what I did with my LHT and it was the first really comfortable bike I have owned.