Road Cycling - STEEL Bikes

I know quite a few people on this forum are steel fans so this thread should get some debate. Well I'm switching over the components from my Tri bike(I miss index shifting and drops and all such things) onto a steel road frame. My research for a frame has brought me to these options(no a custom isn't an option)...

Colnago Tecnos 2000 or other used Colnago steel frame...
I've found one or two Colnagos for sale and they're definately my top choice but they're not a for sure thing, and will probably be the most expensive, however I know they'll probably be the best fit.

Cervelo Prodigy...
These are a little harder to find but are light for steel and are fairly cheap for the high quality and name you buy. They retail for 699 and a used one can be had for even cheaper.

Specialized Allez Comp Cr-Mo..
I just saw this steel frame today. I found it is the cheapest of the three and it comes in compact geometry which will probably save weight a little more as well. Unsure about the fit of a compact frame however.

Lemond
LeMond Zurich or other LeMond, these have a great name behind them and reviews seem to be very high.

Well any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm most likely looking at used(thats the problem with Colnago, no one wants to give theirs up) to find a good deal but any suggestions would be appreciated.

One vote for the Zurich. But don't forget the Maillot Jaune - it's the same frame. What about a Waterford?

55/Rad

I can only speak for the LeMond - the (pre '04) Zurich and Mailllot Jaune are built on the same frame - made from Reynolds 853 pro tubing. The more recent versions use 853 for the entire frameset and are usually configured with a carbon (light weight) fork. Like all LeMonds, these frames have longish top tubes and slack angles. The ride is exsellent! A great all around performer.

You might find the LeMonds to be a little on the pricey side as they are no longer available as a pre-built production bike - the MJ Cassic frameset now retails for $1,300. There are some nice used ones out there if you look around. Bottom line: you can't go wrong with this frameset.

Your assesment of the others seems pretty much right on. I'm sure others can comment from first hand experience.

Good luck with your search!

Isn't the lightest colnago steel frame like almost 4 lb??? (master x light). I was looking at them before, but they just aren't worth what you pay IMO. The colnago name commands a stiff premium.

Isn't the lightest colnago steel frame like almost 4 lb??? (master x light). I was looking at them before, but they just aren't worth what you pay IMO. The colnago name commands a stiff premium.

true...

but they do have cool:love: colors.. :D

If your budget can stand the stress, you owe it to yourself to at least look at the pre-eminent steel racing bike on the planet, Waterfords R33 made with TrueTemper OX Platinum tubeset. The frame is approximately $2,000. But that's a new custom built frame painted in any scheme you want. When built with DuraAce, the complete bike is 17.4 lbs. Take a look at what Bicycle magazine said about the frame.
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2004/data/index.php

Thanks for the info and responses. I had a question abou Colnago though, if anyone could answer. Is the bottom bracket going to be an italian thread? I suppose thats just another con to going Colnago, except, the pretty colors is oh so very true..

(daydreaming)...

Well, building up a bike isn't supposed to be easy, I guess I'll just exercise my patience. Which is never fun but it must be done to find the exact bike I want.

My training buddy rides the Allez CroMo and he likes his ride. I ride an 02 Jamis eclipse and it is prettier and a little lighter.

Take a look at Orbea's Ultrafoco Carbon frameset. With fork, it's a great deal. And even better, it's an incredible ride. Triple butted Columbus tubing with a Columbus set of seatstays. It's got the great ride you want from steel with plenty of stiffness in the BB. Great bike. And their paint is incredible, too.

I ride a Ritchey Logic with a steel fork, and it's a pretty sweet ride and the frame is not much heavier than ti. Most of the newer ritcheys are built with a carbon fork and I see these bikes on ebay every now and then. ;)

I have a Specialized Allez Elite Cr-Mo, it uses the same frame as the comp Cr-Mo. I find the bike to be very smooth and so far I am pleased with it. For the cost I don't think it can be beat. I don't know what the frame alone weighs, but I think it is a bit heavy. My bike with full 105 weighs in at about 20-21lbs.

I have an Lemond Maillot Jaune 853 Pro Steel... I dig it.. great ride, super comfortable bike

jeff

Check out Gunnar, Soma and Surley, all make fine stock steel road frames without the marketing budget markup.

well, this steel bike could quite possibly be one of your bikes for life, so a little extra $$ now will be negligable in 15,20,25... years. my Steelman looks new after 16,000 miles. with pedals, tools in toolbag, 2 cages weighed with one full water bottle came to 21.2 lbs. i can live with that.
i still love it like the first day i got it.

what is the difference between gunnar and waterford? why the $1500 price difference (for a custom geometries?)

The biggest difference I found was that Waterford's are TIG welded. Waterford's approach to bicycles has a lot of attention to detail, some of which probably doesn't translate to noticeable differences to recreational riders. I couldn't feel the difference riding them, so I bought a Gunnar. They are both really nice bikes. My biggest complaint was the lack of a clear coat finish, which is no longer applicable this model year.

I just got an 03 Marin Argenta NEW for $700 - steel frame with carbon seat stays and fork. Tiagra everything.

For a bit more you could get the Verona with the same frame and the 105 group.

For less there is the Portifino which is an all steel frame (still carbon fork) but has Sora components.

I am loving my Argenta for what it is worth...already looking to upgrade the components but aren't we all?

is there anyone that makes all sorts of steel forks to suit any frame one may buy? (rake)

Merton,
Waterfords are all semi-custom now. Gunnar is off the shelf (although for an upcharge you can get anything Waterford does)
Within the Waterford line, there is a wide range of quality and costs.
A basic frame isn't that much more than a Gunnar with a Waterford paint job. It's a very good value, IMHO.But that flexiblity allows you to pick pretty much what you want in your bike. I know a guy who got the Henry James Investment cast fork lugs in chrome. The upcharge was incredible, but you can guess how many other guys in town have chromed classic cast lugs. I like the extended headtube option; I think most middleaged guys should take advantage of it, especially if they're going high performance. It's a company that doesn't get the buzz or press it deserves. They do a great job for a reasonable price, year in and year out.They really ought to change their name to Waterfordini, then you'd really see guys go nuts over them :rolleyes:

Gios Compact Pro,
Cinelli Supercorsa
Scapin S6
Scapin S8

As for steel forks, Profile, Gios, Colnago are ones that i know.

I would recomend the Lemond Zurich, but it fits me. You're looking at a few nice bikes. Have you ever had a professional bike fit? That helped me to know what size and angles worked best for me. Then I went looking and found that the Lemonds fit me very well without the $$$$ of custom. If some other brand fit better I would go for it.

Cheers

are there any other guys out there that do custom sizing for their frames?

I ride a 03 Zurich and love it. There are still a few around but takes some searching.

Not sure I understand your question.

Are you asking if other people have gone and had a fit measurement?

i mean.. do other companies make bikes in the $1000 or less range that are sized based on your measurments?

i mean.. do other companies make bikes in the $1000 or less range that are sized based on your measurments?
You are asking if there any companies that make custom bikes for less the $1000?
I dont think there are.. You may find someone to make a custom bike for you where the frame may cost around $1000. but not a whole bike..

Merton,
you can have a Gunnar Roadie with custom geometry for $1075.
That doesn't include a fork,or shipping.

Habanero can get you a custom Ti frame for $995.
http://www.habcycles.com/road.html

Oh it was the second bike I looked at. When I found the Lemond it was as almost dead on for me I when to a shop to ride it the shop was good, and the price was right. Didn't have to change width of bars or stem etc.

Other bikes might also fit. All measurement are online from the companies. My point it that it fits me. I can't say it will fit you. It depends on how well you know what you need and how good the shop is.

Some shops (not many that stay in business) really need to sell the overstocked sizes or last years model and push the unaware in to a close enough size for a casual riders. Also some sales people don’t know what really fits.

If you know what you need from the start you’re going to get better service. If you can walk in and tell them I want to ride this frame/model the shop is not having to take two hours explaining. Also you might be able to get them to swap out the new 120mm factory stem for the 110mm that you need. Always easier to exchange new stuff than used two weeks later and now has a mark on it.

Does that answer your question?

Cheers

I would recomend the Lemond Zurich, but it fits me. You're looking at a few nice bikes. Have you ever had a professional bike fit? That helped me to know what size and angles worked best for me. Then I went looking and found that the Lemonds fit me very well without the $$$$ of custom. If some other brand fit better I would go for it.

Thank you for posting that. Many people don't believe me when I tell them that I don't think one has to always go custom in order to get perfect fit. For some people, stock geometries just work. That said, I'm also going to be in the market for a steel frame shortly. And I haven't decided on whether or not to go custom. I guess a bike-sizing/fit will best determine that. I've mainly been looking at the Ritchey Breakaway or Co-Motion Espresso Co-Pilot with the S&S couplers.

take a look at the serotta fierte. i recommend this bike a lot and now know three people who own and love them. it's serotta's only non-custom model, but they offer 12 sizes with incredibly well thought out geometry.

the filet brazed steel frameset is $1120, including a carbon fork. can't beat serotta quality at that price with a stick.

http://www.serotta.com/pages/fierte.html

Want steel ?

http://sporting-goods.listings.ebay.com/Road-Bikes-Parts_Frames_W0QQfromZR11QQsacategoryZ22681QQsocmdZListingItemListQQsocolumnlayoutZ3QQsocomparecolum nlayoutZ1QQsorecordsperpageZ50QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1

i couldn't find anything on the reliability of the habanero welds... but the 5 year warranty may say something about that.



are there any other custom sized steel frames at the gunnar price? how stiff is the bb on the gunnars?

Thank you for posting that. Many people don't believe me when I tell them that I don't think one has to always go custom in order to get perfect fit. For some people, stock geometries just work. That said, I'm also going to be in the market for a steel frame shortly. And I haven't decided on whether or not to go custom. I guess a bike-sizing/fit will best determine that. I've mainly been looking at the Ritchey Breakaway or Co-Motion Espresso Co-Pilot with the S&S couplers.

I have a few friends with custom bikes now. Most of what made it “custom” was the time of the fit then getting to picking out bars of the right width, a steam of the right lenght, seat, color, etc.

The women really did get a better fitting frame then their older “guys” bike. Now with a few Women’s designs women have some “Stock bikes” to pick from that might fit well. I find that I will suggest a custom frame to a woman from the start.

One woman that I ride with a lot just getting the fit done and applying that to her current bike. (She was keeping it as a rain bike) new stem, bars. Just fitting the old bike moved up her avg speed 2-3 mph. The Custom bike was a gain of 2-3 more avg. A lot of that was 80 psi and wider tires and now 120 psi 23 mm better hubs, BB and carbon fork to smooth out the road at speed.

The Guys, if you really measure out the Custom frame….a few really don’t have much of difference from their old frames. What was more of a change for two of them this year was they sloped the top tube. But that doesn’t change the size it just lower the weight by having less frame material. But if you’re are a normal sized guy you can find a fit of the self…for once it is good to be average

i couldn't find anything on the reliability of the habanero welds... but the 5 year warranty may say something about that.

Do a USENET search and you'll find plenty of people raving about Habanero bikes. Mark Hickey also frequented the rec.bicycles.* groups and was quite responsive to his customers. Also, Sheldon Brown endorses them... that's gotta mean something. :)

man... usenet is ezpensive... nope, thanks. :o

man... usenet is ezpensive... nope, thanks. :o

Huh? Could you please clarify?

I remember shopping for a steel frameset and looking at Independent Fabrications. I was told by more than one dealer that, more often than not, they take a bike from their 'stock' sizes and fit it to you with parts, the same way you might on your own. But if you've not done that before, it can be well worth it to have someone else get you a starting point.

I remember shopping for a steel frameset and looking at Independent Fabrications. I was told by more than one dealer that, more often than not, they take a bike from their 'stock' sizes and fit it to you with parts, the same way you might on your own. But if you've not done that before, it can be well worth it to have someone else get you a starting point.

From what I understand, there are "custom" bikes and then there are custom bikes. Some people who claim to build custom bikes, will pick from a bag of pre-made angles (jigs, lugs etc) and tube lengths (cut from stock) and join them to match your measurements. I tend to think of this as custom-assembly. Some will just select from a variety of pre-made frames in geometries that should provide a proper fit and throw parts on. I tend to think of this as custom-build. Others will actually measure you and do a whole from-scratch design based on your measurements. This is a full-blown custom-designed bike. Additionally there could be varying shades of effort within each of the above category.

You guys really should learn how to read. The guy is after a deal on a second hand steel road frame, or now something around 1000 dollars from a smaller maker. Recommending Waterford, Ritchey, IF, or any of those other brands is wasting his time - So is recommending Soma or Surly. It's obvious to me that he's after something between these brands.

Many smaller builders do frames around 1000 dollars for a custom. I myself do a Tephra in Columbus Zona for 1050, someone mentioned the Serotta Fierte - there are many others.

Neil, I think if you set your parameters better, you'd get some more concise feedback from the peanut gallery. Are you just after the best frame and forks you can get for about 1000 - is that the bottom line here or what? What level of components are you switching from your Tri bike to this bike?

Sorry... I'm new to the site and I've kept trying to reply.

I just realized I was hitting the Report link not the Reply link.

A Waterford is a piece of art if you can afford it; it's a phenomenal bike.

www.torelli.com

http://www.usenet.com/

they require a fee... i ain't payin that.

http://www.usenet.com/

they require a fee... i ain't payin that.

http://www.google.com/grphp?hl=en&tab=wg&q=

They require no fee... so you ain't payin that.

I have a 2002 LeMond MJ. The only bad thing I can say about the LeMond is that the paint has not held up very well. The frame rides great, and its pretty light. LeMond's new "spline" thing looks like a gimmick, but I haven't ridden one yet. I did pick one up, and it didn't seem any lighter than my all-steel (Reynolds 853-pro) version.

Hi Merton,

Yeah, there's probably someone out there <$1K, but probably no one you ever heard of...but unless you've seen alot and know exactly what you're looking for, wouldn't you pay more for a master who has built K's of frames and is known for fit and quality vs. an unknown entity whose stuff you've haven't ridden or seen on the road?

Have a friend who has a lug/silver braze Waterford 2200 that is just beautiful. Am looking at another Eisentraut or a Waterford...

Have a great ride...