Commuting - dumba**es like this give us all a bad name

So I was riding home on my new commuting route yesterday when I came to a red light. I was first in line and I unclipped and stopped and waited in the right lane for the light to change. Suddenly a college-aged looking jackass on a mountain bike came past me on the right, swerved in front of me, and then proceeded to slowly make tight little circles in the crosswalk so as not to have to step off of his bike. As soon as the light turned green he swooped across the middle lane and back into the right lane - directly in front of me - and took off down the road. Not only did he do this, but he was also wearing headphones(!) and no helmet.

Naturally, all of this pissed me off, not only because he was rude to me but also because I instantly recognized him as a quintessential example of a bad bicyclist and a good incarnation of why most people in cars hate bicycles.

As I was on my road bike, I quickly caught up to him and as I passed I let loose a nice stream of expletives and an admonishment to ride a little more responsibly. He looked surprised at first but then once I was a good 30 yards ahead of him and pulling away he shouted, "So why don'cha do something about it?"

So I did. I stopped and got off the bike and turned around.

He, on the other hand, swerved into the street and crossed and proceeded to pass by me on the wrong side of the road. I think he was yelling something about a sex act but he was riding so fast to get away that I couldn't tell for sure.

What an idiot.

I think the sex act was either "kiss my a....." or "suck my ......" but it probably tailed off as he passed you. :)
I wouldn't even lecture. The greatest satisfaction I have is to just blow by him and keep going.
That or eventually learn to trackstand so I can just stand there while he's making his doughnuts.

While I agree that what he did was horrid, it does nothing to give cyclists a bad name-people hate cyclists just on principle.

about two weeks ago, while I was in my car at a stop light in the far left lane of a 4 lane one way (I was the lead car in the lane, going to make a left turn)- a girl on a bike, no helmet & headphones, whizzed by me on the left of my car just as the light turned green - and then turned left in front of my car and used the cross walk to ride up onto the sidewalk. I mean just a second or two later, I would of hit her, or her me. That really pissed me off, as she was riding between car lanes and in designated turning lanes too. I wish she valued her life more.

about two weeks ago, while I was in my car at a stop light in the far left lane of a 4 lane one way (I was the lead car in the lane, going to make a left turn)- a girl on a bike, no helmet & headphones, whizzed by me on the left of my car just as the light turned green - and then turned left in front of my car and used the cross walk to ride up onto the sidewalk. I mean just a second or two later, I would of hit her, or her me. That really pissed me off, as she was riding between car lanes and in designated turning lanes too. I wish she valued her life more.

was she hot?

was she hot?

nope, but she looked young (late teens early 20's) - plenty of time to blossom

LoL, ok. I agree with the general direction of these. But, does not wearing a helmet actually contribute to their being bad bikers / human beings?
Wearing or not wearing helmets is a choice. Not part of being rude, I think.

LoL, ok. I agree with the general direction of these. But, does not wearing a helmet actually contribute to their being bad bikers / human beings?
Wearing or not wearing helmets is a choice. Not part of being rude, I think.

Oh, I agree - but I have a hard time when they ride so carelessly. If they don't value their life, at least feel for the person who may kill them with a car (and has to live with it) because they chose to ride like an idiot. Not to say that the car driver won't be the idiot, but they will win the battle every time.

I know if I injured her in anyway, it would of been her fault - but It would still weigh heavy on me.

Works for me :)

nope, but she looked young (late teens early 20's) - plenty of time to blossom

I quote Brad Hamilton from fast Times at Ridgemont High " Grown up looking good " :)

So I was riding home on my new commuting route yesterday when I came to a red light. I was first in line and I unclipped and stopped and waited in the right lane for the light to change. Suddenly a college-aged looking jackass on a mountain bike came past me on the right, swerved in front of me, and then proceeded to slowly make tight little circles in the crosswalk so as not to have to step off of his bike. As soon as the light turned green he swooped across the middle lane and back into the right lane - directly in front of me - and took off down the road. Not only did he do this, but he was also wearing headphones(!) and no helmet.

<snip>

What an idiot.

So a driver observing this situation sees one cyclist behaving well, and one cyclists not, and your assumption is that they will think all cyclists act like the poorly behaved one?

I don't get it.

As I was on my road bike, I quickly caught up to him and as I passed I let loose a nice stream of expletives and an admonishment to ride a little more responsibly. He looked surprised at first but then once I was a good 30 yards ahead of him and pulling away he shouted, "So why don'cha do something about it?"

So I did. I stopped and got off the bike and turned around.

And yet you lowered yourself to his level by initiating a confrontation that was likely to do neither of you any good. Why not just report him to the cops if you have a problem with it? Why not just concentrate on trying to set a good example to counter the "bad" images that people like this portray?

Too many of these ill behaved are trash talkers. Amazingly those who often talk the most trash are quite often the same one that would go crying to the world if someone was to take them up on their talk.

I've seen enough of idiots that nearly run over pedestrians, who curse out folks who have the legal right to be there (usually some prick on the sidewalk)....any cyclist who chooses to use headphones usually gets negative points as well...cycling is more physically involved than driving a car, and easier to mess up...so for the love of all that is not bleeding...leave the headphones in your bag. I know I carry a damn nice set of earbuds..but they only go in my ears when I'm not riding. Another rant are the guys who disobey traffic signals then cuss out the drivers....actually why cuss out the driver at all, even if it was his fault...in this area there are enough armed idiots...last thing needed is to start something with one.

I'll admit I did the orbit thing a bit once...but I was not going in circles or impeding any kind of traffic..i was just snaking forward at a very slow pace until i got up to the intersection...so hopefully i could just surge ahead when the light turned green...part of that was I was on an uphill, and did not wnat to have to fight moving all 235lbs of me and my 45lb bike setup...in an area with pedestrians though...i wont pull that.

While I agree that what he did was horrid, it does nothing to give cyclists a bad name-people hate cyclists just on principle.

True enough. Although, in my many years of commuting what is essentially the same route, I have definitely noticed patterns of respect from car drivers that I daresay are not afforded to hot-doggers.
I believe that if you consistently ride respectfully, most car people appreciate it.
But maybe that's just this particular area.

I think he needs to learn to trackstand, and to respect the other bikers on the road.

The last time I had to go on the sidewalk, it was actually part of OH CRAP THAT LIGHT IS RED NOW and putting my right foot down to pivot on so I had to do the donut.

Hit a light a little late on the way home today, and I felt bad that I ended up cutting off a guy on a full suspension trek - I thought I could hit the light before it went red, so I was accelerating, then couldn't stop in time. Moved enough that we wouldn't hit, but think he had to hit his brakes... 2 or 3 seconds... He probably could have blown the light if it weren't for me. (either way, I wouldn't have hit him - no traffic behind and 2 lanes to choose)

I think a lot of cars get pissed when I stop for them, though - they don't have the right of way, but I don't know if they saw me when they are on a cross street turning against me, and I stop/slow down because I don't know what they're doing. When I make eye contact and know they saw me, they always seem mad.

When making left hand turns, it's ALWAYS from the right side of the cars in the turn lane - I want to be on the right of them at the end of the turn, so why not start there?

I would have caught the guy and let him know that he was riding like an idiot though, just like you did. I've done that to both cars and bikes - a lot of people don't know what they're doing wrong until someone tells them.

That goes for more than biking.

So a driver observing this situation sees one cyclist behaving well, and one cyclists not, and your assumption is that they will think all cyclists act like the poorly behaved one?

I don't get it.


Two points in response here:

1.) I would assert that there are more bad cyclists than good cyclists. MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them. Even if someone is not a cyclist, I would say that he would default to bad behavior and ride on the sidewalk, run red lights, etc etc, and for this reason most drivers will assume that all bicyclists act this way.

2.) So even if we don't assume that there are more bad cyclists than good ones, bad cyclists are still more notiecable. The guys cutting across traffic and getting in the way are the ones who get noticed more by drivers and as such they are the ones that drivers will think of when they say that bikes don't belong on the road. This is how stereotyping works. I doubt that most drivers would gripe about cyclists if most of those that they saw were not acting irresponsibly.

Well, on this topic, what is a "good" cyclist?

Do you stop for all stop signs? Or do you check for cars, and roll on through if clear?
Do you always wait for a traffic light? Or do you stop/slow on red, then roll through when it seems clear?

I'm serious, I'm honestly not sure what the rules of the biking road are these days.

As I started the topic, I will go ahead and respond here. I can face the music. All of this is dependent on time of day and traffic – it’s always more dangerous when there is more traffic and thus it’s better to be safe than sorry. A commute home out of downtown is much different than a Saturday morning club ride out in the country.

Here goes:

1.) I stop at EVERY red light. Once I am stopped, if it's early in the morning or there is otherwise no traffic I will go on through after a while, especially if it's an intersection with a car sensor, otherwise it will never turn green for me because it won't know I am there. But I completely stop first, every time, at all red lights.

2.) If I arrive at a red light behind a line of cars, I take my place in line, just as if I were in a car.

3.) I will occasionally roll through stop signs where there is visbility in all directions, but I will always slow down almost to a complete stop in case there I do see traffic and I am forced to stop. I know this is a bad habit but I am trying to balance unclipping and stopping every single block on some roads. If there is a line anywhere at a 4-way stop I always completely stop and wait for my turn, just as if I was in a car.

4.) I never ride on the sidewalk.

5.) I signal all turns and lane changes.

6.) Always ride in the right lane, except to pass stopped busses and cars or when I am preparing to turn left. If the right lane is full of parked cars I will ride just far enough to the left to avoid getting doored. I try not to block traffic in the next lane over, but if I am forced to do so I will and am not ashamed.

7.) There is a bike/walk path in my neighborhood that runs parallel to the main street in and out of the subdivsion. I generally never ride on this path because I am riding fairly fast and there are too many pedestrians and too many cars that block the path when they stop at the main street – usually without even glancing to either side at the bike path. A few drivers have hassled me about "blocking the road" on the main street but I ignore them because I know it's safer for me to ride in the street than on the path.

8.) I ride fairly aggressively, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I will stake out a space in the lane or in line at a traffic light and sometimes block traffic until the road offers a safe and spacious place for me to allow the vehicles behind me to pass. I have found that allowing one car to pass is often interpreted as an invitation for everyone to pass and those situations usually result in me getting forced off the road or otherwise pushed towards the curb and into the danger zone.

9.) Some intersections, no matter the signage or signals, are safer to dismount and walk across rather than ride across, this is especially true when I am commuting because of rush hour traffic.

10.) I always wear a helmet.

11.) I never wear headphones.

12.) Always shout or whistle to get the attention of pedestrians or drivers who look like they might wander into my path ahead. I should probably get a bell, but I’m still embarrassed to put one on my $2000 road bike.

13.) If I am riding at night I have a steady white LCD safety light in the front and a blinking red light in the back. This doesn’t usually help me see any better but it does allow cars to see me.

14.) Always ride on the right side of the road.

15.) Never ride the wrong way on a one-way street.

16.) Some people in cars feel that they absolutely must get past the guy on the bicycle and they will do everything in their power to do so. When this happens I just slow down and let them do it. These people are usually driving large flashy pickup trucks or mustangs or cameros.

nope, but she looked young (late teens early 20's) - plenty of time to blossom

oooh. my age. did she have a nice butt?

Except for the helmet (which I am re-considering) those rules pretty much sum up my behavior as well.
Nicely put.

Lighten up. That doesn't sound like anything more than a mild annoyance, if that.

oooh. my age. did she have a nice butt?
I was too shocked from what she did to notice, and there were too many cars behind me to drive slow and look.

So a driver observing this situation sees one cyclist behaving well, and one cyclists not, and your assumption is that they will think all cyclists act like the poorly behaved one?

I don't get it. I do. Doing the right thing seldom gets noticed as much as doing the wrong thing. Most of the drivers who saw the scofflaw were probably so focused on him that they didn't even notice that cotton was there. Resposible conduct, in any walk of life, tends to "blend into the scenery".

As I started the topic, I will go ahead and respond here. I can face the music. All of this is dependent on time of day and traffic – it’s always more dangerous when there is more traffic and thus it’s better to be safe than sorry. A commute home out of downtown is much different than a Saturday morning club ride out in the country.

Here goes:

1.) I stop at EVERY red light. Once I am stopped, if it's early in the morning or there is otherwise no traffic I will go on through after a while, especially if it's an intersection with a car sensor, otherwise it will never turn green for me because it won't know I am there. But I completely stop first, every time, at all red lights.

2.) If I arrive at a red light behind a line of cars, I take my place in line, just as if I were in a car.

3.) I will occasionally roll through stop signs where there is visbility in all directions, but I will always slow down almost to a complete stop in case there I do see traffic and I am forced to stop. I know this is a bad habit but I am trying to balance unclipping and stopping every single block on some roads. If there is a line anywhere at a 4-way stop I always completely stop and wait for my turn, just as if I was in a car.

4.) I never ride on the sidewalk.

5.) I signal all turns and lane changes.

6.) Always ride in the right lane, except to pass stopped busses and cars or when I am preparing to turn left. If the right lane is full of parked cars I will ride just far enough to the left to avoid getting doored. I try not to block traffic in the next lane over, but if I am forced to do so I will and am not ashamed.

7.) There is a bike/walk path in my neighborhood that runs parallel to the main street in and out of the subdivsion. I generally never ride on this path because I am riding fairly fast and there are too many pedestrians and too many cars that block the path when they stop at the main street – usually without even glancing to either side at the bike path. A few drivers have hassled me about "blocking the road" on the main street but I ignore them because I know it's safer for me to ride in the street than on the path.

8.) I ride fairly aggressively, especially during the afternoon rush hour. I will stake out a space in the lane or in line at a traffic light and sometimes block traffic until the road offers a safe and spacious place for me to allow the vehicles behind me to pass. I have found that allowing one car to pass is often interpreted as an invitation for everyone to pass and those situations usually result in me getting forced off the road or otherwise pushed towards the curb and into the danger zone.

9.) Some intersections, no matter the signage or signals, are safer to dismount and walk across rather than ride across, this is especially true when I am commuting because of rush hour traffic.

10.) I always wear a helmet.

11.) I never wear headphones.

12.) Always shout or whistle to get the attention of pedestrians or drivers who look like they might wander into my path ahead. I should probably get a bell, but I’m still embarrassed to put one on my $2000 road bike.

13.) If I am riding at night I have a steady white LCD safety light in the front and a blinking red light in the back. This doesn’t usually help me see any better but it does allow cars to see me.

14.) Always ride on the right side of the road.

15.) Never ride the wrong way on a one-way street.

16.) Some people in cars feel that they absolutely must get past the guy on the bicycle and they will do everything in their power to do so. When this happens I just slow down and let them do it. These people are usually driving large flashy pickup trucks or mustangs or cameros.
That sums up my behavior as well

Two points in response here:

1.) I would assert that there are more bad cyclists than good cyclists.

Fact: There are more bad people than good people in society generally. This is nothing surprising.



MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them. Even if someone is not a cyclist, I would say that he would default to bad behavior and ride on the sidewalk, run red lights, etc etc, and for this reason most drivers will assume that all bicyclists act this way.

If this is the sort of logic most drivers follow, it a) proves my point about society generally above, and b) makes me realise that I don't particularly want "respect" from people like this.


2.) So even if we don't assume that there are more bad cyclists than good ones, bad cyclists are still more notiecable. The guys cutting across traffic and getting in the way are the ones who get noticed more by drivers and as such they are the ones that drivers will think of when they say that bikes don't belong on the road. This is how stereotyping works. I doubt that most drivers would gripe about cyclists if most of those that they saw were not acting irresponsibly.

I think they would. Stereotyping is generally motivated by prejudice, and prejudice just makes people find something else to complain about, or persist with a complaint that is totally invalid.

2.) If I arrive at a red light behind a line of cars, I take my place in line, just as if I were in a car.

I don't, it's much safer at the front. Drivers have more time to see you, and you're breathing in less of the crap they're putting in the air. More to the point, passing drivers who are in the queue is just overtaking, the same as any driver would do to you if the roles were reversed. I actually know this to be true because in Queensland's oppressive summers, I often seek out a shady spot to wait for the light change.


6.) Always ride in the right lane, except to pass stopped busses and cars or when I am preparing to turn left. If the right lane is full of parked cars I will ride just far enough to the left to avoid getting doored. I try not to block traffic in the next lane over, but if I am forced to do so I will and am not ashamed.

I often split the lanes. It's a much safer way to deal with gridlock, as that tends to be where the passing space is the greatest. Note that I only do this in situations where I'm moving faster than the traffic. If I had all day to sit in gridlock, I'd drive.


9.) Some intersections, no matter the signage or signals, are safer to dismount and walk across rather than ride across, this is especially true when I am commuting because of rush hour traffic.

I've never seen one.


12.) Always shout or whistle to get the attention of pedestrians or drivers who look like they might wander into my path ahead. I should probably get a bell, but I’m still embarrassed to put one on my $2000 road bike.

I don't. I find shouting at them is futile, especially with the thick morons who inhabit this part of the world. It's best just to anticipate their stupid behaviour and be prepared for it. I also refrain from riding a road bike on the goat tracks that pass for "roads" around here, but I suspect that's just a Queensland thing.


16.) Some people in cars feel that they absolutely must get past the guy on the bicycle and they will do everything in their power to do so. When this happens I just slow down and let them do it. These people are usually driving large flashy pickup trucks or mustangs or cameros.

Again, I don't. Refer to your earlier point about giving everyone else an "invitation" to try it. If the road has a good shoulder or a wide lane I'll move over, but if it's narrow, I'm holding my lane and that's the end of the discussion. If somebody doesn't like that, it's their problem. They should control their emotions better.

Apart from that, I pretty much follow everything else in your post.

Fact: There are more bad people than good people in society generally. This is nothing surprising.

Ouch, not in the world I live in man.

1.) (...) MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them.

Depends. This may be true where you live, but it most certainly is not the case around here. It may have something to do with law & theory classes in driving schools? Drivers here are often uneducated about cycling-specific rules, but at least they all know and acknowledge that cyclists belong on the road unless there's a specific and designated bike path.

The favourite cyclist-bashing subject here is to complain about cyclists who ride on sidewalks. Some (inexperienced?) cyclists seem to think it is safer than riding in the traffic.

--J

I don't, it's much safer at the front. Drivers have more time to see you, and you're breathing in less of the crap they're putting in the air. More to the point, passing drivers who are in the queue is just overtaking, the same as any driver would do to you if the roles were reversed. I actually know this to be true because in Queensland's oppressive summers, I often seek out a shady spot to wait for the light change.

I disagree. I think this holds up traffic and is dangerous because the same cars are constantly passing you and repassing you at every green light. What's more, many drivers will resent passing the cyclist and then having to do it again because the cyclist cut to the front of the line and while they may be patient and careful the first time they will eventually get frutrated and do something dangerous to get around the bike for good.

Seems to me that the only reason many people on bikes do this is just because they can (the bike is narrower than the cars and can squeeze through) and not because they feel it's safer or proper. In fact, I have seen people in cars do it sometimes if there is enough room to squeeze around on the shoulder, even if there is not a lane. Typical drivers are only constrained by the size of their cars and many seem to retain this mentality when they move to a bicycle.

Either you ride in the street or you ride on the sidewalk and if you ride in the street you should obey all of the same laws and practices as cars. That includes holding position in a lane and not cutting in and out of traffic.

That is actually one of the things that bothered me about the particular rider that spurred me to create this thread - that he cut to the front of the line and seemed very indifferent about his relationship to the other drivers on the road, including his little-circle stunt while waiting for the light.

One question, I know a lot of you make your left turns from the right of left turning cars. Do you do this where people turn across two lanes? Every city has its driving quirk, and here in Wichita, KS, it's that whether the drivers are turning left or right, they will inevitably turn across two lanes- they don't even realize that it creates a traffic situation, and think it is anal to worry about. Which is annoying of course, having to wait for an all clear to turn right on red. As of now, I just take the left turn lane, because I'm hesitant to predict the trajectory of the left turner.

I change lanes to the turn lane if I turn left.

Sure it angers some motorists, and I get my share of screaming at for it, but if we are to obey all rules of the road, we have to obey ALL rules of the road...no matter how screwed it may seem.

I disagree. I think this holds up traffic and is dangerous because the same cars are constantly passing you and repassing you at every green light.

If cars are repassing you at every green light, it means you're repassing them at every red light. The practical upshot of this is that in real terms (i.e. the time it actually takes to do a particular trip), they aren't really getting to their destination any faster than you are, so you aren't "holding them up" at all. The problem is that so few motorists have the basic intelligence necessary to realise what is a very elementary fact. If they were going faster in real terms, they would only need to pass once.

I should also point out that it is considerably less dangerous than sitting in the middle and having cars trying to squeeze past you, which is exactly what will happen if you sit in the queue.



What's more, many drivers will resent passing the cyclist and then having to do it again because the cyclist cut to the front of the line and while they may be patient and careful the first time they will eventually get frutrated and do something dangerous to get around the bike for good.

There are many motorists who resent the fact that a bicycle is on the road at all. Should I stop riding on the road just to keep them happy? On reflection, don't answer that one. Fact is, a driver might lose three seconds passing a cyclist, big deal. Delays of 5-10 minutes at traffic lights are normal. If they're really concerned about trip time, it's fairly obvious where they should be focussing their attention. As far as doing "something dangerous to get around the bike for good" goes, are you talking about murder? IN the traffic I ride in daily, that would be about the only way they could do it, and it won't help them get to their destination any faster.

The other night I got abused by a driver for actually stopping at a red light (and just for the record, I was the first one there, so my place in the queue was at the front). Tell me, should I then turn around and go back, just so I can be behind this guy? Should I run the red light and risk causing a collision just to keep this dropkick happy (which I suspect is what he was getting at)? The fact is, that not everybody on the road is a rational intelligent human being, and this is particularly the case here in Queensland with a high percentage of in-bred ****sticks. I suspect I'd be creating more danger for everyone on the road if I tried to keep them all happy.


Seems to me that the only reason many people on bikes do this is just because they can (the bike is narrower than the cars and can squeeze through) and not because they feel it's safer or proper. In fact, I have seen people in cars do it sometimes if there is enough room to squeeze around on the shoulder, even if there is not a lane. Typical drivers are only constrained by the size of their cars and many seem to retain this mentality when they move to a bicycle.

Of course they do, it's just overtaking, plain and simple. The only law regarding overtaking that I'm aware of places the onus on the vehicle overtaking to do so safely. If a bicycle is more efficent at overtaking and able to do so safely, then the rider is under no obligation to sit in gridlock for several hours if they don't need to.


if you ride in the street you should obey all of the same laws and practices as cars. That includes holding position in a lane and not cutting in and out of traffic.

I do obey all the same laws and practices as cars. Don't think for one moment there are laws against overtaking or changing lanes. The way I see it, the mere fact that I'm able to do it more efficiently than those in cars does not mean I'm "breaking the law". I'm following the law exactly as it is written (and yes, I've done these things in plain view of police officers without ever getting a ticket).


that he cut to the front of the line and seemed very indifferent about his relationship to the other drivers on the road, including his little-circle stunt while waiting for the light.

I think you have to be indifferent about you relationship to the other drivers on the road. In fact, I regard that indifference (I prefer to call it arrogance) as the most vital piece of safety equipment I own. I'd sooner ride without functioning brakes than without indifference to the opinions of drivers. WIth the abuse I get around here, it's about the only way I can continue to act rationally. As I said earlier in this post, there are many people on the roads who simply do not have a clue, many who think that bicycles do not belong on the road at all. Quite frankly, I'd have to quit riding altogether to keep them happy, and I have no intention of doing that.

Ouch, not in the world I live in man.

Yeah, on my travels I've realised that the type of people who seem to be attracted to this place aren't quite so common in other places. Still, it doesn't bother me really. I didn't move here to make friends to begin with, and once I get out of the city and into the rainforests, I no longer care.

I disagree. I think this holds up traffic and is dangerous because the same cars are constantly passing you and repassing you at every green light. What's more, many drivers will resent passing the cyclist and then having to do it again because the cyclist cut to the front of the line and while they may be patient and careful the first time they will eventually get frutrated and do something dangerous to get around the bike for good.

Seems to me that the only reason many people on bikes do this is just because they can (the bike is narrower than the cars and can squeeze through) and not because they feel it's safer or proper. In fact, I have seen people in cars do it sometimes if there is enough room to squeeze around on the shoulder, even if there is not a lane. Typical drivers are only constrained by the size of their cars and many seem to retain this mentality when they move to a bicycle.

Either you ride in the street or you ride on the sidewalk and if you ride in the street you should obey all of the same laws and practices as cars. That includes holding position in a lane and not cutting in and out of traffic.

That is actually one of the things that bothered me about the particular rider that spurred me to create this thread - that he cut to the front of the line and seemed very indifferent about his relationship to the other drivers on the road, including his little-circle stunt while waiting for the light.


Around here most bike lanes exist to within 100-150 feet of an intersection. Waiting in line with a hundred yards of cars would leave much of that lane unused. Our roads are wide enough that it's easy to ride up to the front without squeezing next to the cars. By waiting waaaay back in line with the cars, you give up an advantage of riding a bicycle to go places. Would you wait in the line of cars backed up for half a mile at a major intersection, and wait with them for ten minutes or more, or would you ride up to the front and go at the next green light? Almost a half mile is my personal record for not having to wait in traffic with the cars during a commute home on a Friday. Those that wait in line with cars might as well come to a complete stop at stop signs and put their foot down for a complete stop.

12.) Always shout or whistle to get the attention of pedestrians or drivers who look like they might wander into my path ahead. I should probably get a bell, but I’m still embarrassed to put one on my $2000 road bike.


Would you be too embarassed to wear a helmet?
Get a bell. Doesn't matter how fancy your bike is, it's just a question of perspective.

Having lived in Holland, where pretty much every bike has a bell, you'd probably look a bit goofy without one (well, commuters as least). If you don't have a bell there, it's just a matter of time before you thwack some inattentive pedestrian.

Shouts and whistles get attention, but people react more haphazardly to that because they don't instinctively hear a shout or a whistle to mean "bike!". That shrill "bring bring" sound can only come from a bike, and most people instinctively know this, so react more quickly.

I've had a lot of fun watching the tourists in Amsterdam who are new to cycling paths everywhere. Because your typical Amsterdammer just rings the bell, *expects* you to move and doesn't slow down, pedestrians learn pretty damn quickly how things work. Hear a bell, get off the path quick!. It's quite comical.

Anyway, get a bell.

If you don't have a bell there, it's just a matter of time before you thwack some inattentive pedestrian.

In New York, seems like this is true with or without bells... I honestly think people are getting stupider, based on the increasing number of cell-phone-talkers who walk out into traffic without so much as looking up. Where's Darwin when he's needed?! :mad:

-chris

In New York, seems like this is true with or without bells... I honestly think people are getting stupider, based on the increasing number of cell-phone-talkers who walk out into traffic without so much as looking up. Where's Darwin when he's needed?! :mad: -chris

Oh he's there, he's everywhere. The cell-phones are just another one of his instruments ;)

Two points in response here:

1.) I would assert that there are more bad cyclists than good cyclists. MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them. Even if someone is not a cyclist, I would say that he would default to bad behavior and ride on the sidewalk, run red lights, etc etc, and for this reason most drivers will assume that all bicyclists act this way.

2.) So even if we don't assume that there are more bad cyclists than good ones, bad cyclists are still more notiecable. The guys cutting across traffic and getting in the way are the ones who get noticed more by drivers and as such they are the ones that drivers will think of when they say that bikes don't belong on the road. This is how stereotyping works. I doubt that most drivers would gripe about cyclists if most of those that they saw were not acting irresponsibly.

All of which merely shows that the only one with prejudices in this situation is you.

I do. Doing the right thing seldom gets noticed as much as doing the wrong thing. Most of the drivers who saw the scofflaw were probably so focused on him that they didn't even notice that cotton was there.

You have no way of knowing this. The idea that motorists are watching us and judging our every little move is highly egotistical. The idea that all or most motorists are bigoted towards cyclists is bigotry in itself.

All of which merely shows that the only one with prejudices in this situation is you.


So if I can try and understand your equivocation here, you are saying that there is no such thing as a "good cyclist"?

Doing the right thing seldom gets noticed as much as doing the wrong thing. Most of the drivers who saw the scofflaw were probably so focused on him that they didn't even notice that cotton was there. You have no way of knowing this. The idea that motorists are watching us and judging our every little move is highly egotistical. The idea that all or most motorists are bigoted towards cyclists is bigotry in itself. "Judging"? "Bigoted?" My statement mentioned neither. In what way could it have implied either? I was simply observing that, IN GENERAL, we notice people doing the wrong thing more readily than we notice people doing the right thing. Someone shoves a fast-food wrapper into a trash can on the street, it probably doesn't even register with passers-by. S/he throws said wrapper onto the ground, and you can bet people will notice. There are exceptions. For example, here in Madison, yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks is rare. So when somebody does it, it's noticed. But nothing in my statement implied judgement or bigotry. It was a simple observation about human perception. Calling it "egotistical" and "bigotry in itself" is unfounded. But that's okay; I've been called worse.

1. MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them. Even if someone is not a cyclist, I would say that he would default to bad behavior and ride on the sidewalk....

In my part of Japan if you DONT ride on the sidewalk they think you're an idiot! I've seen literally a hundred bikes on the pavement at one time as the kids all go into school in the morning. Pedestrians are so used to them it's not a problem. If you go on the road and keep up with a slow moving car, the driver usually looks at you as if you're nuts and gets nervous. But there are as many bikes on the road here as cars and they are generally very well catered to. I've only seen one or two people with a helmet on. I don't have one, but I know I really should.

1. MOST people think bikes don't belong in the road and MOST people when they get on a bike treat treat it like a toy and don't feel that traffic laws/rules should apply to them. Even if someone is not a cyclist, I would say that he would default to bad behavior and ride on the sidewalk....

Of course they think this way. However, that's not my point. What I'm asking is why I should care what people like that think.