Commuting - A Question for the More Experienced Riders

I've been lurking here for a while and decided to join the fun. Primarily a casual rider - mainly commuting 16 miles per day (it's a short ride, but hilly) on a 9 year old Raleigh M20.

Question for all - My bike has regular old pedals. How much of an advantage would it be to get some cycling shoes and pedals with clips? If it's worth the trip, any recommendations (the bike only cost about $250, so I'm not looking for anything to expensive)?

I think you would find them a great advantage if you spin your pedals about 90 rpm. If you want to be able to walk in your shoes when you are off the bike you should get Shimano SPDs these cleats aslo fit the crank bros Eggbeaters which might be better from what I have read on this forum. Avoid the Wellgo SPD compatible pedals - they dont last. The old toeclips maybe worth considering - much cheaper and adaptable to any type of shoe. A large part of the benefit with the cleated pedal-shoe combination comes from the stiff sole of the shoe - you can also get his with the toeclips if you have a stiff soled pair of shoes. You should also look into getting lighter tires for your bike. you wiill notice a big performance improvement on both the flats and hills.

Very. You can pull on the up stroke as well as push on the down. Plus it keeps your feet planted going through rough parts.

One more advantage: I used to experience knee pains on tours. Clipless pedals (that attach to the bottom of the shoe, not on toetip) help me keep my feet properly positioned on the pedal. No more knee worries after I bought SPDs.

I would suggest combination clipless pedals (SPD lock on one side, normal platform on the other). That way you don't have to wear special biking shoes every time you go riding. You also don't have to buy several pairs of shoes for different weather conditions.

I don't know what is generally considered as decent mileage for pedals, but my wellgo SPDs have done about 10 000 kms and show no signs of breaking. My old, no-brand platforms that came with my previous bike busted a bearing after 16 000 kms or so.

BTW, be prepared to fall with clipless pedals. Several times. Practice clipping in and out of the pedal somewhere where there is lots of soft grass and very few people around (to laugh at you). :D

--J

In addition to the above mentioned advantages, the harder-soled riding shoes (as opposed to sneakers) help to increase pedalling efficiency. I think I read somewhere that the combination of clipless pedals and riding shoes can increase your efficiecny by up to 30%. I went clipless a couple of years ago and would never go back. I got the Shimano m545's: high degree of float and a durable design-I haven't had any problems on any of my bikes (mtb, commuter). Unclipping takes a little getting used to but I managed to never fall because of being clipped in. The one time I almost really busted my butt was in front of about 9000 other riders in DC's "Bike DC". I was getting my front tire inflated and forgot which foot was clipped in (usually it's the left one at lights and stuff). I started to go over but unclipped and caught myself just before I hit the ground. That would have been really embarassing.

BTW, be prepared to fall with clipless pedals. Several times. Practice clipping in and out of the pedal somewhere where there is lots of soft grass and very few people around (to laugh at you). :D


That actually isn't necessary. When I bought mine, my LBS showed me how to clip and unclip effectively, and gave me a few tips about it. I've only ever fallen once when trying to unclip, and that was just a bit of posing four years after first using them.

If you check places like specialized.com and sierratradingpost.com you can sometimes pick up shoes on clearance at very reasonable prices. I agree with using mtb shoes for commuting because of the recessed cleats. I ride road bikes, but I use mtb shoes because I like Egg Beater pedals, which, BTW, you can find at reasonable prices, too. These pedals work very well and are extremely easy to get in and out of. AndrewP, although Egg Beater cleats look almost exactly like SPD cleats you can't use SPD cleats on Egg Beaters. I tried when I was hoping to be able to use some SPD "road" cleats before Egg Beater came out with some.

I'd second the suggestion of combination pedals. That gives you the option of a pedal attachment for the long, hilly ride to work plus the ability to just hop on the bike for a one mile errand. If you don't want the cost and hassle of cycling shoes, top clips work well with all footwear.

Paul

I guess I disagree with most of the previous posters.

If your typical ride is 8 miles, and your total bike value is about $250.00, spending money on clipless pedals and shoes may not be the best investment. For about $15.00, you can get toe clips and straps which will have many of the same benefits and will be just about as comfortable and more adaptable for short rides.

As you ride more, and ride for its own sake, you will want to upgrade your ride for comfort and efficiency. Clipless pedals/cycling shoes will be a good investment then.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

I guess I disagree with most of the previous posters.

If your typical ride is 8 miles, and your total bike value is about $250.00, spending money on clipless pedals and shoes may not be the best investment. For about $15.00, you can get toe clips and straps which will have many of the same benefits and will be just about as comfortable and more adaptable for short rides.

As you ride more, and ride for its own sake, you will want to upgrade your ride for comfort and efficiency. Clipless pedals/cycling shoes will be a good investment then.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

And I dissagree with you. My bike is a cheapazoid, moderately tweaked to fit me; the bike originally was about $250 + tax.

When I finally got clipless pedals, about a year ago, I found that they increased my efficiency as I have osteo-arthritic knees and really needed to be able to use the backs of my legs for cranking up the hills around here.

Why not go clipless, since reasonably priced clippless pedals and shoes can be gotten so reasonably?

I recommend clipless for hills/hilly rides.

I recently switched to clipless pedals, and for my training rides, I notice a huge difference. For my ride to work, I've not noticed much difference(its flat 5 miles 1 way). I typically pedal about 90 rpms, but used to pedal at 80 rpms, so there may be a difference I'm not realizing. Overall, I suggest if you don't have toe-clips on your pedals, you need to do something. My suggestion is based on an assumption that you don't ride much other than to work. Go to your LBS, and tell them you are just getting into cycling, and are thinking about getting clipless pedals, but you want to know you are going to get value out of the investment. Ask them if they have any used toe-clips that you could [buy and] use for a little bit to improve your current situation, telling them that if you really get into cycling to work a lot, you will be back for the clipless. This does 3 things for you. 1. Introduces you to your LBS and your LBS to you. 2. Gets you something better than platform pedals to make sure you don't drop too much on clipless and then never ride. 3. Gets you to a bike shop so you can browse ;)

Switching to clipless will cost you at least $50 for the pedals and another $50 for shoes. Most people spend more. Most new bikes come with clipless pedals these days. I like my SPDs, but probably would not bother spending the extra money on an older bike. After one year with the SPDs, I still fall occasionally during panic stops.

Clipless pedals are much easier to lock into than toe straps.

The efficiency of clipless pedals (+ stiff shoes) really shows when you are riding hard. If you are Just Riding Along, then the advantage over toe-clips is less than advertised.
If you have plain pedals, then you should definately do something, toe clips or clipless. I use toe clips and find them convenient to use with any shoes, so I can wear neat shoes if I am going out somewhere, hiking shoes in winter, and tennis shoes in summer.
A quick note on correct use of toe clips: Racing cyclists used to use them with stiff shoes with a slotted cleat, and cinch the straps tight for efficiency. It was hard to get out, and clipless pedals give better connection and easier release. Experienced casual riders have always used toe clips with smooth-soled shoes, to avoid snagging, and never cinch the straps tight. That way, you just take your feet out, no twisting or unclipping.
For a hilly ride, you may want to consider your gearing. Would it be better to invest some money in lower gears?

I bought toe clips and hated them! Dang hard to get into, then they crush your toes once you do get into them. I may ride old junk, but I'm ordering my new pedals and shoes tomorrow.

If your typical ride is 8 miles, and your total bike value is about $250.00, spending money on clipless pedals and shoes may not be the best investment. For about $15.00, you can get toe clips and straps which will have many of the same benefits and will be just about as comfortable and more adaptable for short rides.

I feel the same way. If nothing else, it's a good, inexpensive transition
step. Toe clips or straps or whatever aren't as good as clipless -- I made
that jump a while back and love it -- but the're 1000% better than plain
pedals. If you get used to toe-clips, which also require some getting
used to removing your foot, the later transition to clipless is pretty
easy. And you may end up deciding you want a new bike to go with
new pedals, save the old Raleigh for the all-purpose vehicle it probably
is...

I would agree that purchasing a recessed cleat like SPD's might be the solution here, but only because this would be the first set of clipless pedals that he(she) has ever used and because SPD's and lookalikes are relatively cheap. The first pedals and shoes I bought when I got my road bike were SPD's and I immediately noticed a difference over the toe clips - my stroke was more efficient and my foot was much more stable when riding hard. After a while though, I wanted something with a wider platform for long rides and I upgraded to Shimano SL's and saved the SPD's for my planned mountain bike purchase.

SPD's are inexpensive and for new users a very effective introduction to the advantage of clipless pedals.

Anyway, my main point is actually this - I have begun commuting 1-2 days a week on my road bike with the SL pedals and like the stability and speed they offer when fighting traffic, especially on the way home out of downtown. I stash my clothes at work a day before so all I carry with me on the bike is a messenger bag and a pair of flip flops. This works fine for me and could be an option here, too. Only problem would be if I want to make a stop on the way home, I guess.

Toe clips work great, and very cheap. You could easily spend more on clipless pedals and shoes, than you did on your bike.
But, get some kind of attachment, it's way better than what you have now.

As you ride more, and ride for its own sake, you will want to upgrade your ride for comfort and efficiency. Clipless pedals/cycling shoes will be a good investment then.



Why not buy clipless now and then move 'em to a new bike if so inclined?

There is another alternative that I don't think anyone mentioned, that is Power Grips. I concur with the clipless pedal comments--I ride exclusively clipless and I have two sets of Shimano's and one set of Wellgo's. Both perform admirably.

I don't have experience with Power Grips yet because they have not arrived, but I am going to install them on the stoker position on our tandem. The are a broad strap that attaches to most platform pedals. They run in an angular fashion from the big toe area to the lateral side of the foot. You simply slide your foot in until tight. I'm told they work well with virtually any relatively smooth soled footwear, are more comfortable that conventional toe clips and are less expensive than clipless pedals/shoes. I orded mine for about $25 at my LBS. I went with them because I have a variety of different stokers, including a rapidy growing 10yr old daughter--I couldn't face the future cleated shoe expense!

You may want to check out the Power Grips--here is a link:

http://www.powergrips.com/

Watch out for power grips, My jury is still out on those. I ordered them, but it turns out my pedals were too small to work with them and my feet.
I've ordered new pedals with a much larger cage and will let you know.

Thanks for the heads up on those. I haven't recieved mine yet--they are going on pretty big Wellgo's and my daughter and wife have fairly small feet...so I hope it works out. I did notice on the web site that I posted they do sell them preattached to pedals.

Raleigh, you're probably confused by the nomenclature in all the replies. What you refer to in your post is what are actually called "clipless" pedals/shoes. Sounds bass-ackwards, I know; perhaps a better term would be "cleated" or "click-in" pedals/shoes.

So why are they called "clipless"? Because they take the place of "toe clips" and straps, which are the cage-like plastic or metal gizmos attached to plain-old platform pedals (which is what you have now). Again, confusing nomenclature; some people call them "toe cages" to avoid the confusion. The historical reality is that toe clips came around, and were thus called "toe clips", long before anyone thought of a pedal that would connect directly to the shoe.

Clipless pedals are easier/faster to get into and out of than toe clips, and offer greater pedaling efficiency. After a while, you'll learn to snap into your second pedal after starting up without coasting. As stated, they require special shoes that take the cleats that interface with the pedals. Toe clips and straps aren't as efficient, but are still more efficient than plain platform pedals.

Why? The real mechanical advantage in either case is not really that you have power on the "upstroke", but that you have power for the full revolution of each pedal. And that's how you should think of it. As you pedal, think of your feet as turning circles, not pushing down and pulling up. This creates the most efficient pedal stroke. It takes a certain degreee of mental attention at first, but will become second nature after a while.

So, toe-clips or clipless? If you walk a lot, and don't want the expense of special shoes, go with toe-clips. Bonus: you can probably add them to your existing pedals. If you want maximum mechanical advantage, and want to make cool footsteps when you walk on tile floors, etc., go clipless.

Thanks for the tip on those power grips. I've been looking for something like that.

I've been lurking here for a while and decided to join the fun. Primarily a casual rider - mainly commuting 16 miles per day (it's a short ride, but hilly) on a 9 year old Raleigh M20.

Question for all - My bike has regular old pedals. How much of an advantage would it be to get some cycling shoes and pedals with clips? If it's worth the trip, any recommendations (the bike only cost about $250, so I'm not looking for anything to expensive)?

Ok, I rode with only clipless pedals (except on the basketed cruiser that I use to run to the liquor store) for years.

They're both good and bad.

Good: you can use stiffer shoes, get them nicely tweaked to suit your biomechanics, and you're more connected to the pedals so that you can use more of of the pedal-stroke.

Bad: you're locked into a specific pair of shoes, a specific foot-to-pedal position, and if they're not adjusted properly, you can end up with more knee problems than you started with.

Neutral: at moderate speeds and RPMs, there's really no appreciable difference in efficiency between clipless and pedals + clips. In fact, if you've got a nice, smooth pedal stroke, you can do just as well with BMX pedals.

The bottom line? There's a upside and a downside to going clipless. Me, I ride with toe-clips or BMX pedals almost all of the time now, including a 25 mile round trip commute on a fixed gear (toe-clips) or the same commute on townie (either toe-clips or just pedals). When I really want to ride hard and spin fast on the fixie, the clipless pedals would be better than the toe-clips. But, I've gotten to the point where I prefer to wear whatever shoes (or sandals with the BMX pedals) that I want to wear. Then again, I never wear lycra anymore either.

Let me put it this way: If you really want to gain efficiency, your shoes and pedals are not the first place that you should be looking. Take whatever you'd spend on shoes and pedals and put it into a lighter pair of wheels.

Thanks for the tip on those power grips. I've been looking for something like that.

I, for one, have lots of experience with Power Grips. They are a simple and underrated (I think) design.

If you're looking for pure efficiency, the way to go is clipless pedals. But for certain applications Power Grips are great and IMHO superior to clips and straps. I've used Power Grips for urban riding and mountain biking. They give you a solid up-pull while peddling, and are less fussy and obtrusive than toe clips and straps. Unlike toe clips and straps, you can adjust the tightness of the straps microscopically by changing the angle of your foot (this will make more sense when you try them). And unlike clipless systems, you can use any shoes. And when you fall with Power Grips, your feet come out no problem. That's been my experience anyway, and mountain biking I fell plenty.

At one time Power Grips were about $20. Not sure what they are now. Good luck!

Avoid the Wellgo SPD compatible pedals - they dont last.

I have a pair of Wellego clipless pedals a bought on ebay for about $25. I've had them for about three years with no major problems. I just tighten the screws that hold them together once a week and they work fine. Certainly not high-end pedals, but they work fine.

Thanks for the input. I'm not really looking for a huge efficiency gain (part of the reason for the ride is to get a good workout), but the general concensus here has convinced me that clipless is the way to go. The owner of my local bike shop has never steered me wrong yet, so I will trust his judgement to make sure I don't spend more than I need to (besides as someone pointed out, I can always move them to the next bike).

Bad: you're locked into a specific pair of shoes, a specific foot-to-pedal position, and if they're not adjusted properly, you can end up with more knee problems than you started with. Well, you're locked into the shoes, true. But most shoes and cleats allow for quite a bit of positional adjustment front-back, left-right, and angular. I would recommend carrying an allen wrench for the first several rides, and pay close attention to the way your knees (and ankles and legs in general) feel, and adjust the cleats as needed.

I have a pair of Wellego clipless pedals a bought on ebay for about $25. I've had them for about three years with no major problems. I just tighten the screws that hold them together once a week and they work fine. Certainly not high-end pedals, but they work fine.

I have 3 sets of wellgo pedals I have never had any trouble with them at all. The oldest are my first set of clipless I bought 4 years ago and have at least 12K miles on them. I don't know where they got the bad rap from. But they are cheaper than the name brand ones and seem to last a long time

I like the power grip used on a wide platform pedal. It's comfortable and quite effective enough for those who don't ride too serious, or even if you do. I only have SPD's on my high end road bike, and on my other three bike power grips and big platform pedals all the way. That's one MTB, a touring, and a commuter.

Sounds like you've already decided, but the other nice thing about clipless is the ability to bunny hop your bike over potholes, road debris, and in an emergency, a curb.

I guess I disagree with most of the previous posters.

If your typical ride is 8 miles, and your total bike value is about $250.00, spending money on clipless pedals and shoes may not be the best investment. For about $15.00, you can get toe clips and straps which will have many of the same benefits and will be just about as comfortable and more adaptable for short rides.

As you ride more, and ride for its own sake, you will want to upgrade your ride for comfort and efficiency. Clipless pedals/cycling shoes will be a good investment then.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

Actually I'd agree with you on that one. An 8 mile commute shouldn't specifically call for clipless. But then again he might go for longer rides on weekends or on his way home.

I have 3 sets of wellgo pedals I have never had any trouble with them at all. The oldest are my first set of clipless I bought 4 years ago and have at least 12K miles on them. I don't know where they got the bad rap from. But they are cheaper than the name brand ones and seem to last a long time

Agreed. I think many bicyclists are elitists, and disparage some companies simply because they aren't prominent, like Shimano. That fact is in many cases you pay more simply for a brand name. Not everything Shimano makes is a quality product. For instance, Shimano brake pads absoultely suck! I tried them once and they ate my rims and didn't stop effectively. Sometimes you just pay more for the name.

I used to ride when I was younger and had the pedals with the straps and the cage, but I hadn't ridden my bike until last year after a 10 year break. I started commuting to work to get exercise and save some wear on my old beat up pick up truck (it is a 17 mile commute one way.) I borrowed a mountain bike to start out with and it had plain open pedals and I nearly fell off off it a couple of times when I got up out of the saddle to climb a hill. I decided to get a cheap pair of SPD type pedals ($20 from Nashbar) so I could see if they would help. I also bought a pair of Northwave MTB shoes for $50. I put them on and felt a world of difference right away. Me feet weren't slipping off the pedals when I pushed up the hills and my time dropped immediately by 10 minutes.

Agreed. I think many bicyclists are elitists, and disparage some companies simply because they aren't prominent, like Shimano.

That doesn't just apply to cycling, but to general life. If you don't believe me, why not compare the sales price and volume between different brands of shoes, or different brands of stereos? You'll find that in those situations (as well as many, many others) the well-established brands will command a higher price than other brands. This is true even though I've never seen a CD player last more than 12 months in Queensland's climate.

I'm only elitist because I'm better than everyone?

I'm only elitist because I'm better than everyone?
That could make you elite, but IMNSHO elitism is a flaw posesed by those who only wish they were better than everyone.

(Returned in the sense of humor I'm sure it was intended.)

Phew!
Sometimes sarcasm is missed here. Probably all that elitism going around.

That doesn't just apply to cycling, but to general life. If you don't believe me, why not compare the sales price and volume between different brands of shoes, or different brands of stereos? You'll find that in those situations (as well as many, many others) the well-established brands will command a higher price than other brands. This is true even though I've never seen a CD player last more than 12 months in Queensland's climate.

Exactly. It applies to virtually every industry.

Update on Power Grips. They arrived at my LBS Tuesday and I picked them up yesterday. I installed them on the Wellgo platform pedals that are on the stoker position on my tandem. My daughter (10 yrs old, but with ladies size 8.5 feet) and I rode 6 miles this morning and they worked great from both of our perspectives. They did require a little adjustment to get the right amount of strap in the loop that goes over her foot, and I was suprised how little excess strap there was for her...but the twisting action works great for holding her feet tight on the pedals and she is providing much more power to the process. So far, it looks like they are a great solution for us. But, if you have large feet you would definitely need a longer strap...they do make a longer strap version.

I disagree with the "it's a chep bike for cummuting, why bother?" aspect as well.

i own a DB outlook ($200 new) bike, but since my commute is somewhat long (14mi), I did "tweak" the bike to my liking....at the cost of an added $350.

Was it worth it....Heck yes!

Next upgrades I may be considering: fork with longer travel (i only have what 50mm now...80 would be far nicer...go threadless while i;m at it), and possibly a set of SPD pedals and shoes. I like my toe clips, but I do think they are starting to get in my way more than help now that I have my bike decked out in bags galore and more :)

I commute about 6 to 10 miles a day and ride in my street clothes and shoes. I used to use toe clips, but now I just use a pair of relatively inexpensive ($22) Wellgo aluminum pedals in a modified bear trap style, that my shoes don't slip on.

Wellgo has a huge selection of different models of this style of pedal, you should be able to find at least a basic selection at your LBS.
http://www.bikexpo.com/vip/wellgo/

Here's a good link to a bunch of pedal manufacturers:
http://www.mikebentley.com/bike/pedals.htm

the power grips look like a good idea but don`t they have the disadvantage that you can only use one side of the pedal?. I remember when I used clips (i.e. toecage) years ago that when I took my foot off the pedal at the traffic lights, the pedal used to be turned upside down by the weight of the cage. This meant that when the lights changed I had to quickly poke the pedal the right way up and get my foot in the cage at the same time while getting the bike going (not easy). Since I am mainly a bike commuter in the city, this was a nuisance I could do without and the whole clip thing was not worth the bother and I gave up on it.

I am interested in trying clips but would like a system that is easy to get in and out of in a hurry.

I am not an experienced cyclist - I got back into it about 3mo ago, but I have recent experience with clipless.

I have a 9mi commute. I use it for exercise and try to go fast with relatively high cadence (100-115rpm) I stop very frequently, perhaps 6-7 times.

I used clips with loose straps before. I always fumbled putting my foot in and waited until I cleared intersections to do so. I usually didn't need to look, but poked around with my foot and sometimes the pedal would not flip. It was annoying and the straps didn't help much as they were kept loose for stops.

About 3wks ago I got Shimano PD-M520 pedals - double sided clipless with no platform - I paid $55, but for $20 you can get the equivalent at nashbar (rebranded wellgos I think). For shoes I got Shimano MO38. A week ago I got Shimano SD60 sandals. I put these on a 1990 mountain bike I bought used in 1992. If I ever get a better bike, there is no loss as I can switch them over.

The clipless made a measurable difference for my commute time, average mph and especially max/peak speeds. There was a step function from before and after (I track in a spreadsheet 3wk average before was 16.5mph, 3wk since is 17.2mph). The power on the upstroke is especially nice on acceleration.

The clipless were so much easier to clip in that fumbling with the clips&straps. I'd say 80% of the time my foot clips right in without me even trying to - in fact this is almost a disadvantage as I've clipped back acciedentially in just after unclipping. Unclipping is easier than clips too - a slight twist of the ankle instead of sliding the foot backward.

I was hesitant like others report of going clipless, I thought it would tricky, prone to falling, etc. This was so wrong in my experience. I have never fallen because of not unclipping. (OK, once I did on a ride in the neighborhood with my wife, but that is because I was goofing off and trying to go as slow as possible, but I didn't even get as much as a scrape)

I very much recommend the double sided clipless, instead of platform on one side. I think the platform would make it harder as one would have to fumble flipping the pedal over half the time, instead of getting the effect of clipping in automatically 80% of the time without trying.

As to short errands... I've gone to the coffee shop and deli (1/4 and 1/2mi) with birkenstock sandals just pedaling on the non-platform clipless - it works fine for such a short distance, sure there is a pressure point, but your only riding for 5min or so. Any longer a trip and its no big deal to put on the cycling shoes - the MO38s are fine to walk in too. But more importantly now that I have the clipless sandals I just put those on for the 1/4mi trip. In fact these sandals are so comfortable for walking I've worn them when I wasn't even cycling. If your in a warm climate, consider the clipless and sandals - then the shoes later if you want or for winter.

Al

the power grips look like a good idea but don`t they have the disadvantage that you can only use one side of the pedal?. I remember when I used clips (i.e. toecage) years ago that when I took my foot off the pedal at the traffic lights, the pedal used to be turned upside down by the weight of the cage. This meant that when the lights changed I had to quickly poke the pedal the right way up and get my foot in the cage at the same time while getting the bike going (not easy). Since I am mainly a bike commuter in the city, this was a nuisance I could do without and the whole clip thing was not worth the bother and I gave up on it.

Yes, you have to flip and enter the pedal with powergrips. Sometimes it's a bit of a pain, but mostly it goes easily for me. Occasionally, in a rush from a light or such, I just use wherever I land ... it's a regular cage pedal so the non-grip side can be pedaled fine until you flip and slide in the grip again. I really like the grips b/c I can wear whatever shoes I want and still have a good hold on the pedal (or vice versa).

good luck all.