Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Bikes Direct, my SST-AL, and Customer Service

So, after much research and indecision I ordered a Dawes SST-AL from BikesDirect.com. I have two friends whom have ordered bikes from them and had no problems at all. That said, my experience has been HORRIBLE.

I exchanged a few emails with them before ordering concerning size. I would send a question one day, get the reply the next. Never more frequent. I settled on a size, ordered the bike and awaited it's arrival. Shipment was fast and arrived fine. UPS missed me so I went and got it at the facility. Inspected the box and it was perfect (pictures of box later in post), so brought it home.

Unpacking was a breeze and it was packed very well. All appeared good. I began assembling without really inspecting closely, but as soon as I went to put the front tire in the dropouts I noticed that one of the steel dropouts had been mashed closed. I inspected the box again, no damage. The paint was flaking off where the fork had creased, and it appeared there was paint gone at the bottommost tips of all four dropout tips, most likely from whatever impact caused the bend.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3450603129_82db31fd05_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/3451418810_6e95950277_b.jpg

Here are pictures of the box so you can see that there is no damage:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3304/3451416228_8f729eec76_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3450600547_6d47592c9a_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3451416602_7d62264125_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3451416794_17e0df48bb_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3653/3451416958_7c70367b42_b.jpg

So I contact BD as so on 4/16:


just got the box open and it all looked good but upon putting the bike together i noticed the tire wouldn't fit in the front dropout. upon closer inspection i see that the fork has been mashed closed. here are some pics: (pics from above)

On 4/17 I had not heard a reply by noon, so I wrote again:


why has no one replied to me about this email? i wrote yesterday evening concerning my bike that was shipped damaged. please reply ASAP.

At 3:30 I get this:


Thanks for the email and the pictures. I am sorry to hear that the bike arrived with some slight damage. Sometimes UPS can be a little too rough with packages. The good news is that the damage is only cosmetic and since the fork is steel, the dropout can actually be bent back open without affecting the integrity of the fork.

What I normally do to fix a bent dropout is take a wrench, or any tool that can fit in the dropout, and use the leverage to open the dropout enough to allow the axle to fit. This is a very easy repair to do. If you feel comfortable making this adjustment I will gladly credit $25 back to the card used to purchase the bike.

Let me know.

Thanks,
SC
Bikesdirect

And my reply on the same day:


Hey SC, Thanks for your reply.

The box is nearly perfect, and I do not see how this was damage done by UPS. I can send pictures of the box as well.

Further, not only is the dropout bent, but the paint has come off at the crease, as well as on the bottom of both fork tips, where it has been dropped or mashed or something before packaging. You can see this in the pictures, but I can show you more that I took to post on flickr and bikeforums.net along with the pictures of the box.

While I appreciate the offer of $25 credit, I do not want my fork to begin rusting the first time it's damp out, and I don't pay nearly $400 for damaged goods. I have read extensively the posts regarding your shipping issues and customer service on bikeforums.net and know that you will make good on this issue, but $25 credit will not cut it. I expect a fork that has not been damaged.

I do hope you understand. Please let me know how we can proceed.

Also, please just call me so we can take care of this. I cannot keep doing this one-email-a-day thing. (XXX) XXX-XXXX

Thanks,
Garrett

(more in following post)

While waiting for a reply I go to taking all the decals off the bike and tires that are removable, most are, but the ones on the main tubes are not, they are under the clearcoat. As a test I taped off the one on the front headset and sanded it off. Easy-peasy. Sanded it off, going in the direction of the aluminum and can tell that with some re-applied clearcoat this was going to work great to make a logo-less bike.

After getting no reply on Friday at 6pm I decided to straighten the dropout so I could ride it for the weekend. I had to apply enough pressure that it bent my admittedly cheap pliers and gnawed up the steel and removed most all paint on the dropout. I am not a weak guys, and it took a LOT of pressure to bend this out. I mean, A LOT. This was NOT damage done by UPS, I assure you, especially considering the box and lack of damage to it. Pics of the result:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/3450601429_ff6eab243b_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3451417718_14423dddcf_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/3451417898_576e339a8c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3316/3451418112_13624d8f71_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3601/3450602359_2b04425617_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3451418530_4d17dd10b8_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3450602831_406c4d8f38_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3451417116_530e4c2f5d_b.jpg

I write BD with this:


so i had to apply enough pressure to "fix" this bent dropout that it bent my pliers. i couldn't even get it to move while using anything to soft in between so it wouldn't take off more paint. this is what i'm left with. also, i've included pictures of the box showing that there is NO WAY this damage was done by UPS. there is no damage to the box, and especially not damage that could have put enough pressure to have bent the dropout. i also included a picture of the other dropout so you can see that this fork has been abused before shipping. (include pics)

I sanded the damage down and fit the axle into the dropout and decided to take it to my LBS in the morning to have it professionally assembled and tightened and all that by my buddy Jared. The next day he throws it on the rack and starts putting everything together, pedals, straps, etc but when he goes to put the front tire on and puts the track nut on and it just slides on! The FRONT AXLE IS SMALLER THAN THE BACK ONE.

He freaks out, calls another LBS and they're all confused, and have no track nuts to fit it. So he gives me a hard time about getting what I paid for, comments on how the paint was RUBBING OFF the seatpost and a few spots on the stem, as well as the weird shim used between the handlebars and the stem.

I take my bike and head hanging in shame go to yet another LBS to see if they have correct nuts, they too freak out and give me a hard time for ordering from BikesDirect and advise me to go get some nuts from the hardware store.

I go home and write the following to BD (April 18):


Good God! Now I put the front tire on after straightening out the bent dropout and the FRONT AXLE IS 9/16 while the BACK IS 5/8! So the track nuts you sent do not fit. I drive to TWO LBS's and none have track nuts to fit and laugh because it's so freaking WEIRD, give me hell for buying from BikesDirect, and suggest getting nuts and washers from a hardware store.

What the HELL IS GOING ON HERE?!?!?!?

In addition to all that, the paint on the stem and seat post RUBS OFF! Not scratches off, BUT RUBS OFF. It's horrible.

CALL ME. I will not continue to deal with this with one email back and forth a day. (XXX) XXX-XXXX

I will wait until Monday before posting this experience with photos and video on at least:

http://bikeforums.net/
http://forums.mtbr.com/
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/
http://cyclingforums.com/

As well as my own 3000 unique readers a day, incredibly well-Google-SEO'd blog, followed by reporting this to the better business bureau and applying for buyer protection with Paypal.

That is not a threat, however I refuse to be ripped off like this and neither does anyone else. This whole situation is pathetic. How do you plan to remedy this????

I was furious, and that reply may seem petty, but COME ON. I'm FUMING here.

This is the reply I got today at, get this, 5:22PM (also, still no call):


Hi Garrett,
We've never had a customer have this many problems with a Dawes SST AL. Please have the bike packaged to be picked up. I would like to take a look it. Below is a link that will help with packing.
http://bloombikeshop.com/articles/how-to-box-ship-bike.php

Let me know when the bike is packed and ready to be picked up.

Thanks,
CBT

And my reply:


WHAT?!?!

YOU STILL WILL NOT SIMPLY CALL ME. And now after all this you want me to take my time to mail it to you? Sounds like a scam to me!

Call me. (XXX) XXX-XXXX

Here is a video showing the track nut situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqvBj8fMTWY

So this is where I'm at.

Sounds like the same quality of the Motobecane I picked up.

WTF is it with that shim on the handlebars? Mine has it too. It's like they got a deal on incorrectly made bars and did a "Vern, I can fix that, here hold my beer!" and slapped a shim on it.

Same quality paint.

I just received this:


Hello,

I am out of the office today and cannot get a hold of the Service Center, please pack the bike back up in the original box so we can have it picked up and sent to the manufacturer. A bent drop out happens from time to time, UPS gets a bit rough, but the different thread pitches and the paint rubbing off the stem and seat post are a first. So we will need to have the bike sent to the manufacturer for an evaluation as we have sold hundreds of SST AL bikes and never heard of these issues. I will call you to discus this matter Tuesday morning when I return to the office.

Thank You,
Chris
Technical Supervisor

My reply:


Sounds great, please call after 1pm when I return from work. (XXX) XXX-XXXX. If you would like to see my full explanation of the situation it is here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=8767817

I do sincerely hope this can be fixed, but I really feel like I am getting scammed after all this. Please do see that this is made right, I do not want to be as angry, upset, and disappointed as I am right now. I would most love for this to be made right. I ahve faith you can do so and I look forward to speaking with you.

Those are some impressive pictures of the box. :thumb:

One of the old groundskeepers here tells me that on nutted axles, the front axles are always a smaller diameter than the rear. He said you were right to go to a different bicycle shop if they are too dumb to know that.

You should have, at the first sign of damage as you described/photographed, packed it back in it's box for return. Peeling off decals sounds like you were going to keep it no matter what.

This is why I never suggest people by a bicycle off the 'net or phone.

You should have, at the first sign of damage as you described/photographed, packed it back in it's box for return. Peeling off decals sounds like you were going to keep it no matter what.

This is why I never suggest people by a bicycle off the 'net or phone.

I peeled off the decals because yes, I intended to keep it. I had after all ordered it :)

I was in the head-space that I would just be sent a replacement fork, so I started doing what I could with my new purchase, since I couldn't ride it... :twitchy:

Those are some impressive pictures of the box. :thumb:

One of the old groundskeepers here tells me that on nutted axles, the front axles are always a smaller diameter than the rear. He said you were right to go to a different bicycle shop if they are too dumb to know that.

Thanks about the pics! I always document everything as well as I can in cases like this!

As for the nutted axles, although I'm FAR from super-knowledgeable about bikes I have never heard this, and NONE of my LBSs knew anything about having this diameter axle. Both shops deal in both high-end and average-price bikes and components and are staffed by knowledgeable people, and nobody knew what was up with this axle.

oh, and here is the same video on vimeo. it looks a little better: http://vimeo.com/4248849

I'm wizard enough to admit an exaggeration. Not "all", but 'tis quite common indeed.

Front (http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Hub&sc=Axles&tc=Front&item_id=SH-3370100&id=40039120774)9mm

Rear (http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Hub&sc=Axles&tc=Rear&item_id=WB-AXLE04&id=40039120774)10mm

Beware those shops. I suppose they mightn't know a seat pin from sprints sock.

Those are some impressive pictures of the box. :thumb:

One of the old groundskeepers here tells me that on nutted axles, the front axles are always a smaller diameter than the rear. He said you were right to go to a different bicycle shop if they are too dumb to know that.

Thats been my experience as well I didn't know it was otherwise.

???

I peeled off the decals because yes, I intended to keep it. I had after all ordered it :)

I was in the head-space that I would just be sent a replacement fork, so I started doing what I could with my new purchase, since I couldn't ride it... :twitchy:

When I received my last BD bike, it had a broken spoke nut from poor factory packaging. I emailed BD to send me a new wheel, but BD emailed back saying it was a factory problem and then asked me to ship the wheel back for their in house technician to repair it. Needless to say, BD's response just made me that more determined to fix the wheel myself, which I did.

My last bike was from the LBS, it too arrived severely damaged, but instead of me having to corresponde by email, the LBS just ordered another one to replace it, without me having so much see/touch/fix the first one.
I'm not completely through with making purchases from BD, but after receiveing two of their bikes with some sort of damage to repair, add to the fact that the LBS experience has been much more pleasant, has made BD become a lesser option in future bike purchases.

Thats been my experience as well I didn't know it was otherwise.

???

Okay, while apparently there is some opinion on both sides as to whether this is normal or wrong, the fact is I was sent four track nuts of the same size - meaning the axle is of the wrong size or the nuts are the wrong size. Either way, it's wrong.

I just posted this elsewhere as well, but you can take your dissatisfaction to the BBB (https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx?source=cibr&e=3030691&site=50&id=d11ccf1b-9cab-4373-b0f8-2e8ad14de653). I hope it all turns out :)

Okay, while apparently there is some opinion on both sides as to whether this is normal or wrong, the fact is I was sent four track nuts of the same size - meaning the axle is of the wrong size or the nuts are the wrong size. Either way, it's wrong.

Yeah the whole deal is rotten from the start. I was only surprised that both axles are nowadays the same diameter and that they sent you nuts that do not match.

I was considering buying this same bike on may 1st, but after this I am not sure. I dont want to deal with that drama. I will stay tuned and see how things turn up for you.

Thank you for posting your experience.

Let me preface with I ride a bikesdirect bike and I had a good experience with them, I have friends with BD bikes that also have had no problems and enjoy their purchases. With that out of the way......

I would not be happy if I were you however my rule of thumb in this case would be to have NOT touched the decals or anything until i could resolve with them the return or exchange and what particularly would be returned or exchanged. The fact you removed/sanded off decals from the frame is not going to help your cause should you decide to return it. Leaving it as is as you pulled it out of the box gives you complete recourse to pack it back up and say "I want my money back." Also in my opinion while they seem to have been very slow to respond to you its not unreasonable for them to ask you to send it back, its on their dime. Not only that but any time I've had a company ask me to send something back like that I usually ended up getting a new one in return, and considering how cheap their bikes are, I would imagine they would do the same. I contacted them regarding the quick release on the rear wheel of my bike that got scratched in shipping, I had two brand new axles in my hands free of charge in a week.

There is a reason the prices are so cheap, because if you bought a bike from an LBS they deal with stuff like this which I'm sure happens with a LOT of bike manufacturers. I hope it all works out for you.

any updates?

It looks like he buys the same quality pliers as bikes.

Methinks there's a lesson in there somewhere.

I shipped it back for them to make right.... and am still waiting to hear back. I plan to write it all up when there's more worth writing.

Mike has always made good on any issue that comes up. I've got his personal email around here somewhere, and will ask him to look into it.

Why one earth you decided to start peeling decals and sanding the frame is beyond me.

Good deal Brian, and thanks. As for the decals and sanding, as I stated above:


I peeled off the decals because yes, I intended to keep it. I had after all ordered it :)

I was in the head-space that I would just be sent a replacement fork, so I started doing what I could with my new purchase, since I couldn't ride it... :twitchy:

I was working towards a goal, unaware of the hassle this was to become.

------------

Now, that all said, here are the updates. After my last post I received this email on the 20th:


I am out of the office today and cannot get a hold of the Service Center, please pack the bike back up in the original box so we can have it picked up and sent to the manufacturer. A bent drop out happens from time to time, UPS gets a bit rough, but the different thread pitches and the paint rubbing off the stem and seat post are a first. So we will need to have the bike sent to the manufacturer for an evaluation as we have sold hundreds of SST AL bikes and never heard of these issues. I will call you to discus this matter Tuesday morning when I return to the office.

Thank You,
Chris
Technical Supervisor

My reply:


Sounds great, please call after 1pm when I return from work. (XXX) XXX-XXXX. If you would like to see my full explanation of the situation it is here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=8767817

I do sincerely hope this can be fixed, but I really feel like I am getting scammed after all this. Please do see that this is made right, I do not want to be as angry, upset, and disappointed as I am right now. I would most love for this to be made right. I ahve faith you can do so and I look forward to speaking with you.

I got a call on the April 21st from a Chris at BD and he explained how they get a bunch of these already boxed up and ready to re-sell from overseas, and they never actually see the bikes themselves. He convinced me they were on the up-and-up and that he would email me a UPS label for returning the bike so they could get it all good to go and back to me asap.

They didn't send it.

I emailed them the next day for the label and got it that same day, the 22nd. Went to my LBS, got a box, packed it all up and took more photos, then took it to UPS on Friday the 24th.

Wrote to check in on the 28th:


Hey Chris, wanted to see if you guys got the bike and how it was going. Not trying to be a jerk, but I really hope you guys are going to do *something* to make this worth my while... Considering I ordered it on the 12th and it's now the 28th with several more days to wait, and with all the hassle, aggravation, missed vacation rides and extra effort I've had to put into this - and still not having been able to even sit on the bike.

I just want to walk away from this happy that I bought from you guys, not feeling like I got screwed over and made a bad decision, you know?
I just want to be happy on this...

Got this the next day:


I just found out that your bike was shipped to Texas for some odd reason. I clearly wrote "send to Jacksonville" on the top of your paper work, so I have to have the bike shipped to Jacksonville now. Sorry about the delay.

Thanks,
TH

And that's where I'm at... sigh.

Mike has always made good on any issue that comes up. I've got his personal email around here somewhere, and will ask him to look into it.

Why one earth you decided to start peeling decals and sanding the frame is beyond me.

Thank you for trying Brian. :)

Hi

Sorry you are having issues


Brian just e-mailed me to let me know about this

I have ask Chris to call you and get the bike back
and either refund your money or send another bike

We do see dropouts smashed on perfectly clean looking boxes - this happens in transit [normally UPS]
It is easy to do by dropping the bike on its end [like out of back of a truck]

All bike industry packing is basicly the same; so we see this from all factories [as do other dealers]

The thing with the nuts, I do not get, but I guess a factory can put in the wrong nuts from time to time.
We all see little mistakes like that from time to time [like two left pedals, etc]

But we stand behind our products and clean up issues as quick as we can.

Thanks for the order, no matter wheather you get a refund or replacement

Mike

But we stand behind our products and clean up issues as quick as we can.

Hi Mike, as stated above, the bike has already been mailed back on the 24th, TWELVE DAYS AGO, and I have yet to get a call or email concerning it's repair or replacement.

Hi Mike, as stated above, the bike has already been mailed back on the 24th, TWELVE DAYS AGO, and I have yet to get a call or email concerning it's repair or replacement.

This is confusing
I just talked to my staff and they say they talked to you
and that you wanted the bike fixed and returned
So I am totally lost here -
therefore I am going to try and reach you thru phone or PM

Dude, it's all above. Every bit of it. I talked to Chris on the phone a while back.

My 2 cents-the OP is overreacting. People just f***up sometimes and you have to deal with it. Also, BD wouldn't be such a success if they intentionally scammed customers, especially in today's Youtube society.

I see what you're saying, but there was a good way to handle this and a loooong and draaaaawn out (and costly) way to handle this. BD ended up choosing the latter, however I have since spoken with Mike on the phone and like a champ he has made me a happy customer. Cheers Mike!

More details to come as soon as I get my UPS package next week...

I see what you're saying, but there was a good way to handle this and a loooong and draaaaawn out (and costly) way to handle this. BD ended up choosing the latter, however I have since spoken with Mike on the phone and like a champ he has made me a happy customer. Cheers Mike!

More details to come as soon as I get my UPS package next week...

Someone may have dropped the ball at some point, but once it gets to Mike, he makes it right.

Keep us updated.

OP is not over reacting, but rather is actually requiring that he gets the product he paid for, no matter how cheap the product may be. The whole point about being in business is making a profit, however if BD chose to disregard its customers, then they would likely end up losing business and therefore losing a profit. BD is certainly designed to handle these situations, however as another post had mentioned, they simply just dropped the ball. Now, the whole point here is whether the OP gets the product he initially paid for, in full, and if he doesn't, then he knows not to do business with BD in the future. Perhaps a charge back would be consideration for OP, especially if he purchased the bike with Visa. (MasterCard requires work)

The only issue is the intention to use the damaged/imperfect good in the interim. By "taking ownership" of the bike, the OP has accepted the goods and therefore makes it difficult for BD to simply accept the product back as is and replace it with a perfect product. Lessons are to be learned here, to say the least. Buyer beware should not apply to a $400 bike, especially where people are acting more responsibly with their finances and ensuring that they get their money's worth. I hope it all works out in the end for ya, OP.

Additionally, BD's advertising and marketing should be careful as their ads appear on google even when you enter other TRADEMARKED bike names and shops. This is lawsuit waiting to happen for BD... word to the wise :)

Sooooo, here's my very long overdue ending in this thread.

So after talking to Mike we settled on BD keeping my returned SST-AL and instead Mike sent me the production model of the Kilo WT, seen in this thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=533472

I got the bike assembled, jumped on and have barely gotten off since - it's great! Not perfect, but great. So, before going further here, let me say that while this experience with BD did end up well, it was a long and very annoying road where exceptions to the rule should have been made early on - however, all that said I would indeed order from BD again.

For more about my experience with the Kilo WT, please go to that thread: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=533472

Wow. I have recently received my Kilo TT Pro (prepaid) which also has a damaged fork slot. It is mashed exactly like yours and the paint is chipping. The box also looks perfectly fine. I was and am still very disappointed of this after assuming this type of dilemma would not occur based upon bike direct's great reputation. I am trying to get this resolved through email and I am getting very impatient at the sloth-like speed of bike direct's reply. I wish they had a direct phone number I could call. Reading this thread makes me fear that this will take weeks to resolve.. I am mainly bummed out that after months of researching, I will still have to wait even longer to even ride a bike. If I saw this thread beforehand I probably would have bought a nice used bike instead so I can at least make sure nothing is damaged before I buy. My outlook of bikes direct has changed greatly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/ascendancyz/0905090017-01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/ascendancyz/0905090017-00.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/ascendancyz/0905090016-01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/ascendancyz/0905090016-00.jpg

I just sent Mike an email requesting that he look into this.

Got my replacement fork today. Case resolved. Mike = great customer service. Thanks Mike!

Man, am I glad I read this first.
I am a newbie. I am 'almost' ready to buy a pricey item from BD. I say 'almost' because this is exactly the kind of time wasting experience I can't afford.
I have very limited free time as I work long hours. Too boot, I don't have the mechanical knowledge to start inventing which bolt goes where.
Someone said in this thread this is the very reason why he NEVER buys from the internet or by phone.
I tend to agree on items like cars and guns. I have to touch them, try them and/or shoot them.
It is becoming more and more difficult to dismiss the savings the internet can give you. Case in point the bike I want to buy. But after hearing this story, had it been me, that bike would still be on its box from arrival, waiting for a small clearance of time for me to take it to the local bike shop and then I would have found out the bike is damaged.
Since all bikes come from overseas now, I don't see how we can avoid this. I mean, I would be happy to pay extra if they send me a completely assembled bike. I am sure there is a way. You open the huge box and voila', you have yourself a bike. Open the door and start pedaling.
Do you guys know if any company does that?
Or have it shipped to the local bike shop for them to deal with it (assembly part)

I am now undecided to spend a thousand bucks with BD for an item that I have to put together and fear is damaged or incorrect parts, having to repackage it and wait once for my thousand dollars worth.

Should I buy at the local bike shops only?

If you don't have time to bring your bike in for service, when would you ride it?

For the record, Mike sells huge quantities of bikes. We only hear about the ones with issues, which is a very small percentage. Mine arrived intact, and took about twenty minutes to assemble.

I got my SST-AL last week and it came in good shape.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=9777147&postcount=28

If you don't have time to bring your bike in for service, when would you ride it?

For the record, Mike sells huge quantities of bikes. We only hear about the ones with issues, which is a very small percentage. Mine arrived intact, and took about twenty minutes to assemble.

What I mean, is that I do have a few minutes to drop off my bike at the shop for cleaning and servicing.
I get on my truck, I drop it off and off I go to the million other things I need to do. Next day, I make a mili-second stop at the shop pick it up and off I go.
I don't have the time to open a box and begin to examine the beauty of life and ponder as to what is the centrifugal force minus Pi and put it together, much less repackage it and send it again because of damage.

Mike has explained to me what you are saying and it is true, however I am leaning towards only buying locally and have the pro's work on them, just like I do when I have a tooth ache. I don't mess with it, I go to the pro (in this case the dentist) and he takes care of it. Why fiddle with boxes and complaints and nuts and bolt.
I just want to ride my bike not prep it and deconstruct it and analyze it and lube it as if I am will have sex with it. You get my drift?

What I mean, is that I do have a few minutes to drop off my bike at the shop for cleaning and servicing.
I get on my truck, I drop it off and off I go to the million other things I need to do. Next day, I make a mili-second stop at the shop pick it up and off I go.
I don't have the time to open a box and begin to examine the beauty of life and ponder as to what is the centrifugal force minus Pi and put it together, much less repackage it and send it again because of damage.

Mike has explained to me what you are saying and it is true, however I am leaning towards only buying locally and have the pro's work on them, just like I do when I have a tooth ache. I don't mess with it, I go to the pro (in this case the dentist) and he takes care of it. Why fiddle with boxes and complaints and nuts and bolt.
I just want to ride my bike not prep it and deconstruct it and analyze it and lube it as if I am will have sex with it. You get my drift?

My dentist did a crappy job on a temporary crown (stupid corn-nuts!) and it came off late on a Saturday night. I kinda lost faith in "the pro" at that point.

So yeah, I hear you. But if it's something I can do myself, I probably will. Saves time, saves money, and the job is done right. I've been doing nearly all my own building, repairs, and maintenance for about 30 years now. I suppose not everyone has a pro stand and two Park Tool kits though. Still, it wasn't any trouble.

The point that I was trying to make, which Mike also explained to you, was that the odds of having a problem are very small. Unfortunately, it does happen. But Mike is quick to fix it. I don't have any giant chain stores like Performance or Supergo near me like I did when I lived in SoCal, and my local bike shops suck so bad that I really don't feel I should support their bad service, even though I did recently buy a bike for my girlfriend from one of them. I've had better luck with BikesDirect than I have buying local.

That's my two cents.

What I mean, is that I do have a few minutes to drop off my bike at the shop for cleaning and servicing.
I get on my truck, I drop it off and off I go to the million other things I need to do. Next day, I make a mili-second stop at the shop pick it up and off I go.
I don't have the time to open a box and begin to examine the beauty of life and ponder as to what is the centrifugal force minus Pi and put it together, much less repackage it and send it again because of damage.

Mike has explained to me what you are saying and it is true, however I am leaning towards only buying locally and have the pro's work on them, just like I do when I have a tooth ache. I don't mess with it, I go to the pro (in this case the dentist) and he takes care of it. Why fiddle with boxes and complaints and nuts and bolt.
I just want to ride my bike not prep it and deconstruct it and analyze it and lube it as if I am will have sex with it. You get my drift?

I think you addressed your own concern. Just buy local. Time = money. For some people, it tilts further in one direction than the other. It sounds like you are better serviced by the LBS than BD. Hope you get a good hassle-free ride!

Reading this thread i would never order a bike off the net. LBS is the way to go and you put that money in the hands of a small business owner not some guy or gal you never see.

Reading this thread i would never order a bike off the net. LBS is the way to go and you put that money in the hands of a small business owner not some guy or gal you never see.

And your point is what? The last time I bought a bike from a bike shop, I got zero customer service, and it only took two minutes to figure out that they didn't know much about bikes either. Not sure why anyone would want to reward that kind of business. And the other shop in town never has what I need in stock, but is usually willing to order it. As long as I'm waiting up to a week, why pay them to get it for me?

I'm willing to pay a bit extra to support a local business that knows how to take care of their customers. I just haven't found that shop yet.

My point is I deal with a local shop that is small business and I can go there if issues and not deal with email or phone. Oh and the shop i deal with is great and has been around many years..usually if sucky service they won't last.

You can't expect an LBS to have everything in the bicycle industry in stock..get real.

I do use the internet to buy things but a bicycle that i haven't tested...no way. I wouldn't buy a car online without test driving it either.

My point is I deal with a local shop that is small business and I can go there if issues and not deal with email or phone. Oh and the shop i deal with is great and has been around many years..usually if sucky service they won't last.

You can't expect an LBS to have everything in the bicycle industry in stock..get real.

I do use the internet to buy things but a bicycle that i haven't tested...no way. I wouldn't buy a car online without test driving it either.

I expected my LBS to stock things like basic road tires, disc brake components, and racks and accessories. They didn't. It's not like they were some odd item, these were things people buy on a regular basis.

A car is not a bicycle, so your last comment really doesn't make too much sense. But I've had quite a bit of luck with motorcycles online, having spent roughly $30k on them in under three years.

I expected my LBS to stock things like basic road tires, disc brake components, and racks and accessories. They didn't. It's not like they were some odd item, these were things people buy on a regular basis.

A car is not a bicycle, so your last comment really doesn't make too much sense. But I've had quite a bit of luck with motorcycles online, having spent roughly $30k on them in under three years.

Oh i can understand on carrying basic items you stated..guess i got it wrong and am spoiled by 3 shops within a mile.

I just purchased a Motobecane Fantom 29 hardtail from them and it is great. Luckily I have a friend who used to work at his dad's bike shop when he was younger, so he helped me assemble it. The only problem I had with it was a couple of the cables were criss-crossed, so we just disconnected them and routed them correctly.

I had test rode a lot of bikes, and was confident in the size I was ordering, and I was right. I wouldn't have purchased from them if I wasn't knowledgeable enough or knew someone knowledgeable enough to help me. Communicating with them through email can be slow, but I'm patient, and it paid off. I don't think I got a $1,100 bike for $595, but I know I got at least an $800 bike for $595.

I'm not impressed by many of the bike shops near me. I visited seven. If they are going to laugh at you or ridicule you for buying a bike somewhere else, or online, I wouldn't do business with them. Because I'm getting back into cycling for the first time in about 20 years, I spent about $160 at a local bike shop on some accessories, if they're going to laugh at me if I ever bring in the Motobecane for service, they'll never see another penny from me, and I'm sure I'm going to need parts, accessories and equipment throughout the years. I can accept that they are looking to maximize their profits (but do they have to charge the MSRP??? I mean come on,most people don't pay MSRP for cars or stereo equipment.) But they have to accept that as a consumer I'm going to be looking for the best value and deal for me. I spent over a month doing research (online, speaking with knowledgeable friends, and visiting 7 different shops) before I pulled the trigger on this purchase. Fortunately I didn't have a customer service issue, but I know another poster on this forum, bobthib, had an issue with his Motobecane Immortal Pro, but it was resolved to his satisfaction and he purchased a second bike from bikesdirect.com for his wife (bobthib was also part of my research, as well as joining this board and a couple of other forums).

I just bought and assembled a Kilo TT Stripper in Chrome from them and it turned out to be a good experience for me. Read the thread and see pics here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/725597-My-Mercier-Kilo-TT-Stripper-Chrome-47cm