Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area - Visp Track Frame - Help me please =)

Hi, has anyone ever heard of a track frame from a manufacturer named Visp (http://www.visp-sports.com), model named TRX790? (I can't actually find this model on their web-site...)
Here's a picture of it.
http://olegl.com/myimages/visp.jpg

===Statistics===
SIZE: 700C x 520MM (From B.B. center to seat tube top end)
MATERIAL: Frame & Fork Aluminium 6061T6 (Fork steer 250mm Cr-Mo)
B.B. SHELL: 68MM (Suggest to use 107MM axle B.B parts.)
SEAT POST: 27.2MM.
TOP TUBE: 536.6MM
HEAD TUBE ANGLE: 74.5
SEAT TUBE ANGLE: 74.5
FORK RAKE: 45MM
R/C: 390
F/C: 565
WB: 947.7
B.B DROP: 58
HEAD TUBE: 115MM
===Statistics===

How much do you think this frame is worth?
At $200, which would you recommend, this, or the Mercier Kilo TT from BikeIsland?

Thank you for your help!! =D

a cro-mo fork steerer and 6061 frame doesn't sound high quality at all. You get what you pay for. I like the kilo because it's very light for a steel bicycle. Probably lighter than that. The fork with the TT is very heavy though.

Thank you for your advice! =D
I think, if I can pick it up at around $125-$150 (incl. s&h @ eBay), I'll get it and see how it goes. (I'm on a tight budget...)
I'll post a review in this topic if that happens. ^.^

i saw that same listing on ebay. started sweatin bullets thinking i had perhaps found the deal o the century. the frame looks a lot like the felt tk3 so i thought maybe it was the same just branded differently. i don't think it is now. after looking at the visp website (looks like really bad knock off stuff), i decided to save the cash and wait for a better deal on something used. i agree with 4zn though....if you're on a budget seriously consider the mercier kilo tt. $359 complete with free shipping from sportymamabikes.com with some of the best geometry i've seen in budget bikes. if you got the visp, then bought bars, crankset, wheels, seat and post, blah blah.....you're gonna end up spending a lot more and have to wait longer. just a thought.

Thanks for your input!
I didn't end up buying the VISP since the bid went over $150, which I set to myself as the limit.
I'd rather not buy a complete bike since I have a lot of parts I can already use (possibly in a conversion), so I'm mostly just looking for a frame (and a wheelset).
The frame does seem of fairly low quality, but I think at $100-$150 (incl. S&H) it would be a better deal that a $200 (incl. S&H) Kilo. Then again, I haven't had personal experience with either, so what do I know?
If they put up another auction within 2 weeks or so and I can snatch it that low, I'll review it and whatnot, but, for now (at $350 + $70 S&H), I'll just leave it as an average (if not poor) deal not worth my time.

At $200, which would you recommend, this, or the Mercier Kilo TT from BikeIsland?

What are you looking to do race at the track (this is the track forum) and/or cruise around town? Maybe buy used. You'll get much more frame for your money if you buy used. The Kilo TT is HEAVY. My buddy has one. It's a tank.

I'm looking to make a commuter bike. I would also use it on the Velodrome, but, it definitely wouldn't be exclusive.
The VISP is 2.8kg (Frame, Fork, HS, BB?) for my size (52cm), is the Kilo heavier than that?
Thank you for your input!

The TT is steel. So, I'm sure that the Visp is lighter.

There's buying cheap and there's buying cheap smartly. I personally wouldn't buy an unknown frame sight-unseen and unridden. There's no telling what you'd get when you opened the box and built it up. How do you know it will fit?

I'd hold out and save up for a better frame. Better than the TT.

That frame looks dope. But that's just looks.

Well, it's 52cm (or I can get 56cm), which is almost my size (I'd probably need about 54 actually).
I'm currently riding a tiny frame (<50) since it was the only one available when I was building my prev. bike (out of spare parts), so it's not such a big issue for me, I'm used to it.
I agree about the unknown frame part though, I'm not keen on doing that, especially when there's no reviews available on that specific model.
I'm short on cash, but I'm not pressed for time, so for now, I'm just scouting eBay & Craigslist every once in a while, waiting for a good deal.
Thanks for you input!

I just bought the VISP track frame on eBay (48cm, matt black) for $51 + $70 shipping from China. The maximum I was willing to pay was $70 ($140 total with shipping). All the others this size went for over $100, which I think is too much. I intend to build the bike as a street fixie with flat MTB bars. I already have a crankset, BB, pedals, wheels, stem, front brake caliper, grips and several seats. Only need the bar, seatpost, seat clamp and brake lever which I can scrounge used for about $25. My expectations are not very high, just as long as frame alignment isn't screwed up and it's sturdy. Anyway, as soon as I get it and build it up, I'll re-post if there still is any interest.

Looking forward to your review Tejano Trackie, very curious about these ones.

Well, the frame arrived Tuesday, exactly a week after I paid for it, really quick considering it was shipped from Tianjin, China to Texas, USA. It was very well packaged with lots of bubble wrap on the frame and fork. Finally got it put together today and took it for a short test ride. The frame and fork are solidly made with tons of good and complete welding on the frame. Alignment is excellent; the wheels are perfectly aligned and no-hands riding is easy. The bottom bracket threads were good and installation was easy. The chain line between the crank chanring and rear cog is excellent. Ditto the headset, which is a low-line Cane Creek sealed unit. The seat tube was a little large, and had to be squeezed quite hard to hold the seatpost in place. The finish is basic industrial grade, no smoothing of welds, no blending of the dropouts into the stays, no facing on the bottom bracket or head tubes, just ok paint and lots of tacky decals. The frame and fork are heavy and built like a brick crapper, very stiff and strong. There is nothing flimsy about it and it could definitely be raced on the track, but I think its main intent is a road single speed. The steering tube angle and fork offset are well matched and steering is very stable and neutral. It has over an inch of toe to front tire clearance, so it's easy to do track stands at traffic lights or tight U-turns. It also has a rear brake bridge, so it can be used safely with a single freewheel. The frame is very tight in the rear, and only about a half of the dropouts can be used before the rear tire hits the seat tube. The dropouts have very nice heavy duty stainless steel inserts to prevent damage to the aluminum when tightening the wheel. The complete bike weighs 19 lbs in contrast to my Bianchi Pista Concept track racer that weighs 15.6 lbs. Some of this is due to the heavier frame and some to the heavier street wheels. I ended up using a dropped bar that I found laying around and an ancient brake lever and borrowing a seat and post from another bike, so my total cost including some small parts was $156.64. I definitely feel the frame was worth what I paid for it, and probably would give $50 more. :thumb:

How does that fork feel? It's all aluminum, right?

The fork is extremely stiff vertically and front to back, so it gives a pretty harsh ride on a rough road. I use fat tubies with only 100 psi to absorb the shock. The fork blades and crown are aluminum; the steerer tube is 1-1/8" steel pipe.

Can the decals be removed or are they clear coated?

No clear coat. However, decals are very thin and won't peel off without scraping or chemical stripping. Either way, paint will get messed up.

Thanks for the great review, I was very curious. So were a lot of people at the London Fixed Gear forum so I posted your review there: http://www.londonfgss.com/thread22227.html#post809541

Did you happen to weigh the frame before installing any parts?

And finally, can you do us a huge favour and post some pictures of the built up bike?

Sorry, I did not think to weigh it before assembly, however, the manufacturer specs state that the frame weighs 1.890 kg, the fork weighs 0.788 kg and the headset weighs 0.126 kg, so the assembled frame and fork weighs about 2.8 kg or 6.2 lbs. Since the frame size is 48 cm, which is the smallest, the larger frame sizes will be heavier.

Got that brake up high enough?

Yeah, moved it down a tad.

Here are pics of someone who built up a visp frame on fixed gear gallery:

http://fixedgeargallery.com/2009/july/3/JonathanDiaz.htm

The VISP Model TRX790 is no more, and has been replaced with the Model TRX791. The good news is that they now include a seat clamp and the fork steerer tube is now aluminum instead of steel. The bad news is that they have tightened up the geometry with less fork rake and a shorter top tube, so the already harsh ride will be even harsher, and the toe to front tire clearance has been reduced such that there will be overlap for riders with longer cranks and bigger feet. So, it has become a better track bike and a worse road fixie. I'm glad I got mine when I did. I've ridden it a bunch and love it. Climbing is great with the short stiff rear, and it's real stable descending spun out at 30 mph.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminium-Pink-Track-Frame-Fork-48CM-with-headset_W0QQitemZ270430889932QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef6efe7cc&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Quite frankly, when I saw that the model had a 74deg head tube angle and a 45mm fork, I immediately wrote it off as being a worthwhile bike.

Have made some changes. Returned silver seat post and black seat to original owner (Bridgestone MB3 with street slicks), bought cheap black seatpost on fleabay and found this gorgeous old Selle San Marco Rolls saddle with perforated white leather and brass accents in a drawer. I think the seat is worth almost as much as the entire bike. Seat kept sliding down into seatube even with the seatube clamp super tight so bought this secondary clamp that goes directly on the seatpost, so now its OK. Added brake lever body on left side for out-of-saddle hill climbing, and lowered brake lever slightly. Have maybe 300 miles on it so far, and everything is holding together nicely. When the current tubies wear out, I'm going to try some wider 25's.

Have made some changes. Returned silver seat post and black seat to original owner (Bridgestone MB3 with street slicks), bought cheap black seatpost on fleabay and found this gorgeous old Selle San Marco Rolls saddle with perforated white leather and brass accents in a drawer. I think the seat is worth almost as much as the entire bike. Seat kept sliding down into seatube even with the seatube clamp super tight so bought this secondary clamp that goes directly on the seatpost, so now its OK. Added brake lever body on left side for out-of-saddle hill climbing, and lowered brake lever slightly. Have maybe 300 miles on it so far, and everything is holding together nicely. When the current tubies wear out, I'm going to try some wider 25's.

Can you take pics of the tire clearances? I'm wondering what size tires it can handle...

Can you take pics of the tire clearances? I'm wondering what size tires it can handle...

Basically, there is plenty of room in the front fork and in the rear between the seat stays and rear brake bridge, however, there is very little room between the chainstays and behind the seat tube. Although the rear dropouts are about 1.5" long, only about 1" is usable, since the tire hits the seat tube if you move the wheel in more than an inch. I changed the gearing from 40x17 to 38x16 (same 64 gear inches) just so I could move the wheel back to provide clearance for removal without having to deflate the tire. At the position I've got it now there is room for a 28mm size tire and you might be able to squeeze a 32mm in there, but it would be a real tight fit. The tires I have now are 23mm wide tubulars.

Since other people may be watching this thread, I've posted additional photos of other changes/improvements that I've made. Gone are the ugly old Universal brakes levers with their rotting hoods and old hard cotton bar tape, and in their place are a pair of Dia Compe Aero Grand Comp levers with comfy ergo hoods and some sweet Arundel GeckoGrip soft bar tape. Since the levers are spring loaded, I didn't have to remove the lever handle on the dead grip. Also, note the cool Paul Comp dropout adjuster screws with their large machined knobs to permit tool-free adjustment. Finally, I came to the realization that the 27.2mm seatpost was the wrong size, even though that's what the specs said, and replaced it with a perfect fitting Kalloy 27.4mm silver machined 2-bolt seatpost. I also lowered the stem 5mm.

So far I've put about 400 miles on it and am very pleased with how it rides and performs. Come winter, I expect to change my clipless pedals from Look road to Shimano MTB SPD so I can use my MT51 shoes which are warm and walkable.

^^Yes some of us are watching the thread! Thank you for the in depth details. I'm really leaning towards buying one of these frames.

Hello everyone.

Sorry to bump up an old thread with my first post to the board.

I've been seriously considering the Visp frame for my first non-second hand build (been tinkering with old steel frames 'til now) as the tubing really appeals to me and the geometry suits me much better than the Leader's. Not to mention the price.

What is troubling me is the headset. Is it integrated or semi-integrated?

Never assembled a threadless headset. I'm not really worried about being able to do that, but the idea that breaking the headset would make the whole frame useless, disturbs me a bit.

Hello everyone.

Sorry to bump up an old thread with my first post to the board.

I've been seriously considering the Visp frame for my first non-second hand build (been tinkering with old steel frames 'til now) as the tubing really appeals to me and the geometry suits me much better than the Leader's. Not to mention the price.

What is troubling me is the headset. Is it integrated or semi-integrated?

Never assembled a threadless headset. I'm not really worried about being able to do that, but the idea that breaking the headset would make the whole frame useless, disturbs me a bit.

Hi NOKTB,

The headset is not integrated, it is an internal (semi-integrated) design, made up of separate cup pieces that you press-fit into the head tube and a base plate on the fork crown. The bearings are separate sealed units. If it ever fails, you can remove the pieces and replace it. I was able to install the headtube cup pieces myself using a plastic mallet, but had to take the fork to my LBS to get the fork crown base plate piece installed with a proper driver tool. The headset that came with my frame was a Cane Creek VP-A41AC. The only difference between assembly of a threadless vs threaded headset is that instead of a threaded nut on top of the steerer tube, you have a cap that fits over the stem and a star bolt that fits inside the steerer tube to tighten and adjust the headset.

The new VISP has a different fork than mine with less rake and a more conventional rounded and curved shape. Also the top tube is shorter. So it should be quicker steering and have some toe/tire overlap. I have been pleased with mine. If you have any further questions, PM me.

Tejano

Never assembled a threadless headset. I'm not really worried about being able to do that, but the idea that breaking the headset would make the whole frame useless, disturbs me a bit.

In theory this is a problem, but in practice, it's virtually impossible and rarely happens. Even Chris King has abandoned their anti-integrated headset stance after ten years.

Thanks a lot guys. I think I'll eventually end up getting one.

With a 54 cm frame having a 571mm F/C, I reckon I'll have about 1 cm toe-overlap riding with clips and straps, but as this is going to be built for track rather than as a hipster vehicle, that doesn't really concern me much. I just want to hang it on the wall and maybe take it to the track once or twice next summer.

If I decided to ride it on the streets, I'd probably get a cheapo crabon fork for the front with a bit more rake.

i ordered one. Figure with a good wheelset, and other quality parts, it shoudl be relatively light. not like fuji track pro light, but whatever

so i got it in, put together, and i have to say im impressed. Quality isnt perfect, some paint isnt great but everything fits well, and all that jazz. YOu can tuck a 23 into the seattube barely, a 20 woudl fit better, but yeah.
ill post up some pics later

so i got it in, put together, and i have to say im impressed. Quality isnt perfect, some paint isnt great but everything fits well, and all that jazz. YOu can tuck a 23 into the seattube barely, a 20 woudl fit better, but yeah.
ill post up some pics later

Pictures please?

this weekend. ive been workign 12 horu shifts, so i get off when its dark

here is minez
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/4131662577_e71a8a8f23_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4131670319_571b22c695.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2593/4131670487_514b5341c9.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4132439950_d1385dbb3c.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2744/4131676821_66e835d6af.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/4132447330_b30c709fe9.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4132448072_661353d72d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2744/4131676821_66e835d6af.jpg

Wow, you sure got that tire in tight! Looks like it came out real nice. It would help if you could photograph it outside in natural light against a solid white background.

its been poiring rain for like 5 days, so this was the best i could get
doesnt rub at all. if i throwa 20 on it i could push it in a bit more.

its been poiring rain for like 5 days, so this was the best i could get
doesnt rub at all. if i throwa 20 on it i could push it in a bit more.

The setup looks like you're going to ride it on the road. Let us know how that new fork handles the bumps.

Haven't got one yet, but am ever so tempted as I'm getting my tax returns soon.

its fine man. ive been riding it alot. fork is fine. im gonna go to carbon only becuase of the weight

The headset is not integrated, it is an internal (semi-integrated) design, made up of separate cup pieces that you press-fit into the head tube and a base plate on the fork crown. The bearings are separate sealed units. If it ever fails, you can remove the pieces and replace it.

Soo, I eventually ordered one of these. Still waiting for it to arrive, but already thinking about replacing the fork :o

That leads me to asking dumb questions again. Can I use a fork designed for normal headsets, like this all-city steel fork (http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/Singlespeed-Fixie/Frames-and-Forks/All-City-track-fork-2010-white::18597.html) with the Visp's internal headset?

Can I use a fork designed for normal headsets, like this all-city steel fork (http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/Singlespeed-Fixie/Frames-and-Forks/All-City-track-fork-2010-white::18597.html) with the Visp's internal headset?

Maybe. The headset accepts a 1-1/8" threadless fork, but the fork crown race might not fit. Even so, that fork will not match the steerer tube outer diameter and will at best look goofy.

here is minez
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/4131662577_e71a8a8f23_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4131670319_571b22c695.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2593/4131670487_514b5341c9.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4132439950_d1385dbb3c.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2744/4131676821_66e835d6af.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/4132447330_b30c709fe9.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4132448072_661353d72d.jpg


This looks like a decent build... love them hubs.

Did any of the owners have problems like the frame not being true this or that way?

I am asking, as I just got mine and the rear dropouts are far from being parallel. Spacing is ranges between 115...118mm. I've never seen anything alike on a new frame, not even on an old trashy one.

Did anyone ever successfully* manage to contact that ebay seller mycycoole?

* like... getting an answer and stuff...

I never bought the frame, but I managed to successfully contact the seller on a few occasions through ebay's messaging system.

Did any of the owners have problems like the frame not being true this or that way?

I am asking, as I just got mine and the rear dropouts are far from being parallel. Spacing is ranges between 115...118mm. I've never seen anything alike on a new frame, not even on an old trashy one.

Did anyone ever successfully* manage to contact that ebay seller mycycoole?

* like... getting an answer and stuff...

I did not have any problems with mine other than the seatpost size (it was 27.4mm instead of 27.2mm spec'd). Alignment and spacing were excellent. I never tried to contact the seller. Did you use PayPal? If the seller does not respond, you can file a claim.

This looks like a decent build... love them hubs.
its all awesome parts. just the frame is the only mediocre item

so i got it in, put together, and i have to say im impressed. Quality isnt perfect, some paint isnt great but everything fits well, and all that jazz. YOu can tuck a 23 into the seattube barely, a 20 woudl fit better, but yeah.
ill post up some pics later

That is a function of the chain length, rear cog, and chainring. To fix this, either cut a new chain with one more link than your current one, or use smaller chain ring, or smaller rear cog. The new chain is the cheapest solution.

its a function of thats how i wanted it
and with a 20 series tire, it could be even closer.

i like the fitment on my bike, like hte fitment on my car.

flushhhhh

so i emailed the seller on ebay and ask for frame weight only w/o the fork

700Cx490 frame net weight is 1988 grams 700CX57CM freight net weight is 2200grams. Thank you!

those who have a visp or w/e can you confirm this?