Training & Nutrition - Can Too High Gearing Make Me Bonk?

I bonked once last week, and was abused on another ride this week by two older guys with triple cranks. So I was wondering, I have standard chainrings, and I have to climb a lot of hills around here in Tennessee, and being 218 lbs still (at 6'1 and I am 45 years old).... I seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range.

The question is.. If I am having this problem alot on hills- does that lead to bonking? am I burning up my glycogen too quickly? Is it counterproductive for me to ride this gearing because it's too hard for me?

Your answer may lead to my getting compact chain rings and/or a 27 on the rear.

By the way I am riding a new bike with Chorus Eleven. Over the winter I was riding an older bike with a compact- and I was beginning to get to the point I wanted something a little faster so I got the standard-

Did I jump the gun?

Any opinions and advise would be greatly appreciated!

Too high of gearing won't make you bonk.

Too high gearing can make you fatigue quicker than you would with proper gearing.

Well, maybe.

If riding up a hill in a high gear puts you up near your anaerobic threshold, then you are more likely to bonk. As one gets closer to the anaerobic threshold, your body will burn more glycogen (carbohydrate) than fat. You have limited supplies of glycogen about 2000-2500 calories. Most people have plenty of fat reserves (essentially unlimited). So at lower heart rates, your body should burn a reasonably high percentage of fat compared to glycogen.

However, if you are climbing the hill at the same speed by running very high rpms as you would going out of the saddle in a lower gear, I don't see the advantage. Your heart rate should be about the same and you should be burning up the same amount of glycogen. If you sit and spin up the hill at a slower rate of speed, that should cause your body to burn more fat and save some glycogen which delays glycogen depletion.

By the way I am riding a new bike with Chorus Eleven. Over the winter I was riding an older bike with a compact- and I was beginning to get to the point I wanted something a little faster so I got the standard-

Did I jump the gun?
If you're riding on hills at 218lbs I would go back to the compact. It is hard to imagine how a standard crank would be faster.

My understanding of how this works:
When one lifts heavy weights in the gym, one is doing anaerobic exercise, even though one's HR might not get out of zone 2. This is because even a 1 minute set is brief in terms of aerobic conditioning, and because most of the work is usually done in the concentric phase of the rep.

Taking this to bicycling, climbing in a big gear is somewhat like weight lifting. You are using full muscle power at a low cadence. So I think you are burning glycogen faster than someone climbing in a more appropriate gear, because your muscles are contracting closer to the anaerobic limit than those of a spinner. Your HR is already close if not at your lactate threshold/aerobic limit, so that means your legs are really working hard. Most authorities think we should limit our low cadence climbing drills to zone 3 to make certain that we are working our legs inside our aerobic limit.

My personal advice is to go to a triple with a 27 cassette. The added weight is a joke, and the convenience is awesome. And if you get strong enough to climb in the middle ring, good on you. Meanwhile keep that climbing cadence in the 75-85 range. You will notice that your HR will probably be a little higher for the same speed going uphill, but you'll be able to keep it up a lot longer.

Lots of good climbing in Tennessee.

Can Too High Gearing Make Me Bonk?

No ... but not consuming enough fuel will.

I bonked once last week, and was abused on another ride this week by two older guys with triple cranks. So I was wondering, I have standard chainrings, and I have to climb a lot of hills around here in Tennessee, and being 218 lbs still (at 6'1 and I am 45 years old).... I seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range.

The question is.. If I am having this problem alot on hills- does that lead to bonking? am I burning up my glycogen too quickly? Is it counterproductive for me to ride this gearing because it's too hard for me?

Your answer may lead to my getting compact chain rings and/or a 27 on the rear.

By the way I am riding a new bike with Chorus Eleven. Over the winter I was riding an older bike with a compact- and I was beginning to get to the point I wanted something a little faster so I got the standard-

Did I jump the gun?

Any opinions and advise would be greatly appreciated!

First of all, are you sure you bonked? What were your symptoms?

I ask because a bonk is very specific.

I don't think the bonk is likely because of gearing. You may be less efficient at lower cadences it's not going to be significant.

What are you eating/drinking before riding?

Bonking is slang for running out of fuel, i.e. your glycogen is completely depleted, your blood sugar falls and you feel like a flashlight with 10 year old D cells.

Climbing by pedaling slow and pushing really hard brings more of your fast twitch muscle fibers into play, and they are not best suited for endurance....they are best for short duration efforts. With a smaller gear you can pedal at a higher cadence and climb the same speed, and use more of the slow twitch fiber which works better. By higher cadences, I mean like 80 to 90 RPM, rather than grunting up the climb at 60 RPM. If you have a super high VO2 Max, then you might climb at 100 RPM like that skinny guy from Austin, Juan Perlota. The higher pedal cadence shifts more of the stress to your cardiovascular system, but it is easier on your legs.

seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range.Why are you asking about gearing but talking about nutrition.

You don't mention anything in your post to make a guess about any of your training problems or rides. As others have noted, "bonking" is supposed to mean a significant, dangerous depletion of glycogen, to the point that blood glucose levels fall and willful activity is compromised.

Riding more slowly than guys who have triple cranks is not evidence of bonking. However, your poorly thought out post is.

too high or too low is no good. find your comfort zone and stay there.

too high or too low is no good. find your comfort zone and stay there.Wrong. You want to do a lot of riding outside your comfort zone. Otherwise your comfort zone gets ever smaller. Rumrunn might want to lurk a bit before posting nada on every thread in the forum.

too high or too low is no good. despite trying to achieve a comfort zone - one will get into higher and lower situations naturally.

i have 2000 kcal of glycogen stored up inside me? wow, that's pretty cool. I heard that exercise can build up your glycogen stores... didn't realize you would store THAT much.

i have 2000 kcal of glycogen stored up inside me? wow, that's pretty cool. I heard that exercise can build up your glycogen stores... didn't realize you would store THAT much.

Yes ... it is stored in your liver and in a part of your muscle cells, and that's a max amount. If you haven't eaten for several hours, your glycogen stores will have been depleted.

So if you have been eating regularly and you do have 2000 calories stored, you can ride about 3-4 hours without eating anything. But if you've been at work and haven't eaten anything all afternoon, you won't have 2000 calories available for your after work ride. You might only have 1200 calories left so you might only be able to ride 2-2.5 hours without eating anything.

I bonked once last week, and was abused on another ride this week by two older guys with triple cranks. So I was wondering, I have standard chainrings, and I have to climb a lot of hills around here in Tennessee, and being 218 lbs still (at 6'1 and I am 45 years old).... I seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range.
The question is.. If I am having this problem alot on hills- does that lead to bonking? am I burning up my glycogen too quickly? Is it counterproductive for me to ride this gearing because it's too hard for me?
Your answer may lead to my getting compact chain rings and/or a 27 on the rear.
By the way I am riding a new bike with Chorus Eleven. Over the winter I was riding an older bike with a compact- and I was beginning to get to the point I wanted something a little faster so I got the standard-
Did I jump the gun?
Any opinions and advise would be greatly appreciated!

1st, gearing is not solely about the front ring or the rear cog, its about gearing, as in (in terms I use and understand) gear-inches - the ratio of how many times your rear wheel turns for each rev of the pedals, expressed in the 'apparent' wheel size (diameter). So a 74 gear inch frontring and rear cog combo makes your rear wheel seems as though it is 74 inches in diameter. Another way to express gearing is gain ratios, but I just can't think well in that currency.
you can have a 'large' gear with a compact and a 'smaller' gear with a 52 or 53.
1st thing you should do is map out the gear ratios (I use gear inches) for your setup. With an 11 you have 11 for each front ring available.
Then get to know how each of those feel when you ride. I liked to tape a ratio chart to my stem when I was using a new range of rear cogs or going to a different front setup (like compact). Now they just remind me what ratios I have available on any of my bikes, and with a bunch of bikes, I sometimes get confused as to what each is equiped with - until I start ridin, at which point I find out quickly whats on the bike.
You'll learn a lot about yourself by knowing what gear ratio you're in at any point in a ride.

Now, Bonk. Bonk is a longterm depletion of energy stores. You generally don't recover from bonk unless you stop or seriously slow down for a long period AND take in food. Then it can take anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes to have any form of recovery (which would still be well short of full recovery.
..."being 218 lbs still (at 6'1 and I am 45 years old).... I seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range."...
this is not bonk. This is going anerobic. You're going harder than your body is currently conditioned to do for periods over 30 to 60 seconds.
You're heart rate indicates being at or near where you;re body is running highly anerobic. Over time ( a few minutes) you WILL slow down. You;re heartrate will stay high until your body reverses the chemistry of anerobic state. That takes longer than it takes to get into that state.

A. Get smart on what your gearing really is and how it works for you. Once you've gotten smart and have found you don;t quite have the gearing you'd ride well with, then make changes to get what you need.
Going from STD to compact to anything, without knowing what you need/want is good for the economy, but not ridin.
A triple is a good thing, cause if you don't have it with a triple then ...

to ride stronger with the Geezers on Triples...
A. drop 30 lbs
B. find the best gear ratio which allows you to stay just under your Anerobic threshold for the extent of your climb/special effort
c. ride more and take yourself up close to your AT (anerobic Threshold) numerous times during your training rides, allowing enough time in between to recover well. These 'informal internvals' will be the quickest way to improve without applying more structured training principles. When you are feeling 'stronger', then doin back to back days of intervals is possible, until then space them out at least with one moderate day (or day off) in between.
Miracles don't happen overnight, especially for you 45 yr olds (it getz easier as you get older cause your expectations are generally lower... sometimes... :) )
Report back in September

1st, gearing is not solely about the front ring or the rear cog, its about gearing, as in (in terms I use and understand) gear-inches - the ratio of how many times your rear wheel turns for each rev of the pedals, expressed in the 'apparent' wheel size (diameter). So a 74 gear inch frontring and rear cog combo makes your rear wheel seems as though it is 74 inches in diameter. Another way to express gearing is gain ratios, but I just can't think well in that currency.
you can have a 'large' gear with a compact and a 'smaller' gear with a 52 or 53.
1st thing you should do is map out the gear ratios (I use gear inches) for your setup. With an 11 you have 11 for each front ring available.
Then get to know how each of those feel when you ride. I liked to tape a ratio chart to my stem when I was using a new range of rear cogs or going to a different front setup (like compact). Now they just remind me what ratios I have available on any of my bikes, and with a bunch of bikes, I sometimes get confused as to what each is equiped with - until I start ridin, at which point I find out quickly whats on the bike.
You'll learn a lot about yourself by knowing what gear ratio you're in at any point in a ride.

Now, Bonk. Bonk is a longterm depletion of energy stores. You generally don't recover from bonk unless you stop or seriously slow down for a long period AND take in food. Then it can take anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes to have any form of recovery (which would still be well short of full recovery.
..."being 218 lbs still (at 6'1 and I am 45 years old).... I seem to get anaerobic on hills. At least my legs burn alot, and my heart rate gets pretty high for me- into the 150-160 range."...
this is not bonk. This is going anerobic. You're going harder than your body is currently conditioned to do for periods over 30 to 60 seconds.
You're heart rate indicates being at or near where you;re body is running highly anerobic. Over time ( a few minutes) you WILL slow down. You;re heartrate will stay high until your body reverses the chemistry of anerobic state. That takes longer than it takes to get into that state.

A. Get smart on what your gearing really is and how it works for you. Once you've gotten smart and have found you don;t quite have the gearing you'd ride well with, then make changes to get what you need.
Going from STD to compact to anything, without knowing what you need/want is good for the economy, but not ridin.
A triple is a good thing, cause if you don't have it with a triple then ...

to ride stronger with the Geezers on Triples...
A. drop 30 lbs
B. find the best gear ratio which allows you to stay just under your Anerobic threshold for the extent of your climb/special effort
c. ride more and take yourself up close to your AT (anerobic Threshold) numerous times during your training rides, allowing enough time in between to recover well. These 'informal internvals' will be the quickest way to improve without applying more structured training principles. When you are feeling 'stronger', then doin back to back days of intervals is possible, until then space them out at least with one moderate day (or day off) in between.
Miracles don't happen overnight, especially for you 45 yr olds (it getz easier as you get older cause your expectations are generally lower... sometimes... :) )
Report back in September

Wrong...you do not recover from a bonk by eatting or slowing down and you certainly do not recover in 20-40 minutes. You might recover enough energy to get back on the bike but you are useless once you do. If you've recovered from a bonk on the bike...you haven't bonked. I've bonked once (and have posted in numerous threads about the experience)....it took me an entire week before I could ride normally again. Here's a link to my account of an actual bonk so you can get the idea. Synopsis: 113 miles, feel off the bike while riding, was only 3 miles from home, spent 3 hours with my head under a bush on the side of the road, rode less than 5mph home finally and slept for 17 hours straight after eatting large quantities of food. Didn't ride again for 6 days....didn't start feeling better on the bike for 7 days.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8477547&postcount=23

Machka answered the OP.

I'm in Nashville and I fluctuate between 230 and 250....either ride more hills (you'll get better I promise) or go with the compact. I ride a compact and actually just used a compact 50-34 with a 13-29 cassette for 3 state in Chattanooga a few weeks ago.

Just get a triple. Guys are so competitive. Ride your own ride.

Wrong...you do not recover from a bonk by eatting or slowing down and you certainly do not recover in 20-40 minutes. You might recover enough energy to get back on the bike but you are useless once you do. If you've recovered from a bonk on the bike...you haven't bonked. I've bonked once (and have posted in numerous threads about the experience)....it took me an entire week before I could ride normally again. Here's a link to my account of an actual bonk so you can get the idea. Synopsis: 113 miles, feel off the bike while riding, was only 3 miles from home, spent 3 hours with my head under a bush on the side of the road, rode less than 5mph home finally and slept for 17 hours straight after eatting large quantities of food. Didn't ride again for 6 days....didn't start feeling better on the bike for 7 days.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8477547&postcount=23

actually, not 'wrong', just a different level
putting yourself at death's door is one level, knowing that you're depleted and need to deal, is another.
bonk is often accompanied by other conditions - because of rider issues/error - dehyration which in turn contributes to heat exhaustion.
it not an uncommon occurrence for a racer (not talkin PRO, just any racer) to bonk and continue on much slower. different level, different rider, different experience. still 'bonk', not everyone approaches death's door.
If you realize it early enough, you can reduce the effort substantially to go a short distance to your stop or vehicle given some reasonable terrain to be covered. But best is to take the 40 min or more and load up with some good food at once. The times I've hit the wall, fruit juices (watered down) helped in the 1st 10 minutes, then mild fruits like bananas became stage 2 and finally something more substantial carbo after I started feeling the recovery from the fructose. Last time it was around 90 F and I was a slight bit dehyrated also. You're not gonna go far or fast, but I was able to go another 15+ mi. to get back to my vehicle. Then I had a bit more to eat and took a nap in the park... Woke up about 45 minutes later and drove home, no problemos. Stopped for an awful-awful...
Felt much better by evening. Rode again (nice medium smooth pace) 2 days later.
hope I never experience what you have.

I see people bonk every month. Doesn't have to be a near death experience. Usually takes over 50 miles. Manifests by not being able to get your HR out of zone 3 on a climb, no matter how hard you try. Is not exhaustion. Eating at a rate of about 50 calories every 5 minutes will have you more-or-less operational again in about 1/2 hour of riding at a moderate pace. So whatever you call it, it's there.

Last time I babysat a bonked rider, he accused me of picking up speed as I got near the barn. Ha. I kept going slower and slower trying to keep him in sight behind me. He had no idea how bad off he was. I was out of food and water, too. Got him back OK, though. Luckily just a few miles. I can see how if you just kept pushing, sooner or later you'd fall down.

actually, not 'wrong', just a different level
putting yourself at death's door is one level, knowing that you're depleted and need to deal, is another.
bonk is often accompanied by other conditions - because of rider issues/error - dehyration which in turn contributes to heat exhaustion.
it not an uncommon occurrence for a racer (not talkin PRO, just any racer) to bonk and continue on much slower. different level, different rider, different experience. still 'bonk', not everyone approaches death's door.
If you realize it early enough, you can reduce the effort substantially to go a short distance to your stop or vehicle given some reasonable terrain to be covered. But best is to take the 40 min or more and load up with some good food at once. The times I've hit the wall, fruit juices (watered down) helped in the 1st 10 minutes, then mild fruits like bananas became stage 2 and finally something more substantial carbo after I started feeling the recovery from the fructose. Last time it was around 90 F and I was a slight bit dehyrated also. You're not gonna go far or fast, but I was able to go another 15+ mi. to get back to my vehicle. Then I had a bit more to eat and took a nap in the park... Woke up about 45 minutes later and drove home, no problemos. Stopped for an awful-awful...
Felt much better by evening. Rode again (nice medium smooth pace) 2 days later.
hope I never experience what you have.

I agree there are different levels but I really don't think it is truly a bonk until you can't recover from it. I race and have never bonked during a race due to the short amount of time we are usually racing. The bonk I described in the previous post happened on my first ride over 40 miles a few years back when I decided to ride 6.5 miles to a 100 mile ride and then ride the 6.5 miles home after....I had no idea the proper way to hydrate and eat while on the bike and it was 90+ degrees out.

I literally thought I was going to die. I've always thought the definition of a bonk is when you reach the point where you body just will not and can not do it anymore and you basically fall off the bike.

I agree there are different levels but I really don't think it is truly a bonk until you can't recover from it. I race and have never bonked during a race due to the short amount of time we are usually racing. The bonk I described in the previous post happened on my first ride over 40 miles a few years back when I decided to ride 6.5 miles to a 100 mile ride and then ride the 6.5 miles home after....I had no idea the proper way to hydrate and eat while on the bike and it was 90+ degrees out.


Bonk + dehydration is a powerful combination.

The three signs of a true bonk:
1) It comes on quickly. You are feeling okay, and then over a period of 5 minutes it happens.
2) Your performance drops off significantly, because you have no carbs getting to your muscles. You go from comfy at 18MPH to working hard at 12MPH.
3) You are mentally confused because of lack of glycogen (which is what your brain runs on).

If you get a goodly amount of sugar (and any kind of sugar is good at this point), you will likely be able to continue, but you aren't going to get even close to your earlier performance level.

It will likely take a few days to get your glycogen stores back to normal levels.

is that why when i do a "good" ride a day every day, I start getting weaker towards the end of the week? I feel like I slow down the more I exercise, until some bad weather hits and I'm off the bike for a few days...

is that why when i do a "good" ride a day every day, I start getting weaker towards the end of the week? I feel like I slow down the more I exercise, until some bad weather hits and I'm off the bike for a few days...I guess I'll answer this like it were straight . . .
No, this has nothing to do with bonking. You're just getting tired because you don't alternate easy and/or very easy rides with your "good" rides. You don't get stronger when you exercise. You get stronger when you rest. Improper nutrition and not enough sleep aggravates.