Road Cycling - LONG- The saga grinds on...(I hate shopping for a new bike)

Just as I thought I was down to two bikes I test rode another, making my already confused decision making abilities almost nonexistent.

I've ridden a lot of bikes and really liked the feel of the Specialized Roubaix full Carbon and a leftover 2003 Lemond Zurich. Today I rode a 2004 Lemond Zurich so I could try and compare the ride of the Zurichs after the design change.

Last week I aksed the board about the '03 Zurich and it came through with flying colors...anyone ride an '04? What do you think of it?

The dilemma(s):

My LBS (which is pretty good to me) carries Specialized BUT they are in a "situation" right now that might make it impossible for them to carry Specialized in the future. So ordering from them might be a pain in the buttocks. But Specialized is in almost every shop here in CT so getting one isn't as much of an issue.

The '03 Lemond is a leftover double and I believe I can get it for @ $1900.

The '04 Lemond (triple) is from a different dealer and he said he can probably work with the price. Currently, it's $2260. However, the guy didn't seem to know much about fitting as he said he just usually looks to see if the front hub is blocked, then brings a set of allen keys on a ride to make adjustments. I'm not saying on the road adjustments are a bad thing, just seemed scary that the shop guy went with the "yeah, we have it and you can stand over it so it fits" mentality.

My questions are:

1. What's the "going rate" for the '04 Lemond Zurich triple?
2. What's the weight difference between the Zurich's? The Lemond Website says it's lighter but doesn't say anything about actual weight.
3. What are the major differences between '03 and '04? Did parts go down in quality or are they spec'd the same? (I can't find info about the '03)
4. Can someone on here please buy a new bicycle and give it to me so I can't refuse and am stuck with your decision out of respect for your feelings?

This gets worse by the day. I NEVER thought it would be this hard.

Thanks for letting me rant as always...
PJBAZ

Well, I can't answer most of your questions, but regarding 2003 info, go the www.lemondbikes.com, Bikes section, and click on the archive link. They should be wheeling and dealing on '04's and even more on the '03s. I bought a 2002 LeMond Victoire leftover in 2003 for $2,000 (MSRP was around $3300 I think).

Do you want a double or a triple? I am sure you could find either on the 2004 (or have them switch it over) but on the 2003, your choices are obviously limited. Personally I like the double due to my fitness level and riding conditions.

Well, for that matter, they would probably switch the 2003 over for you if you wanted.

Doh. More coffee.

Thanks for the info about the archive link. I didn't know it was there. As far as the double/triple I'm not sure exactly what i want to do...a double would be fine I guess as I'm getting more miles in every week and raising my fitness level. I can always change the cassette.

I guess I am just frustrated that everytime I ride another bike it changes what I was thinking. Although, because I've ridden so many bike lately I can really tell what does not work for me. I'm no fan of the Reparto frames from Bianchi (sad because I love the Celeste paint and tradition of the company). Felt frames seemed to "buzz" me through the handlebars. The Specialized Allez line is good, but not exactly the feel I'm after. The search keeps going to say the least.


PJ

Well ... think of it like this: there are a lot of good choices! I will add that I sold my Lemond Victoire on eBay (bought for $2,000 and sold for $1675) and bought a Litespeed Tuscany (bought on EBay also). I like the Tuscany better, although I can't say how much of that is due to fit, which is a personal thing.

Double vs. Triple - switching them over is not cheap - I'd say you'd be better off trying to figure out what is best for you and have your LBS switch them over while the componets are new at little/no cost to you (triple costs a little more than the double of course). I see you are in CT - if it's like central MA where I am, it's hilly but not mountainous, so to me it would all come down to fitness level. 39/52 with a 12-25 just works better for me than the 29/42/53 triple.

I've been riding an '88 Trek 400T with a triple and haven't been in the small ring lately. I've been forcing myself to grind up the biggest hill on the loop we usually ride. So far, it's gone well and it's getting easier so when I buy a new bike and do away with 6 or 7 pounds of extra bike weight I should be just fine climbing locally.

I'm not a racer and plan on riding longer (time wise, I keep track of mileage but don't really care how far I go) as time wears on. I find I really enjoy cruising along, especially after I'm warmed up and feeling sore. Sore means it's working, right?

PJ
I know Grafton, I grew up south of Worcester in Dudley, MA. Do you get over to see Jerry at TrekStop? My brother worked there for a while years ago.

I drive by the TrekStop to and from work every day. They are a pretty small shop (as you know) and a buddy of mine helps me with maintenance, so I don't go in there often.

Yeah, I'd guess that with the lighter bike you'd be fine. I don't race either and find the double to be fine. esp. with the 39, which might give you a little more climbing gear than what you have? I'd stay with a 12-25 in back, but that's just personal pref. The 25 is nice on those bigger hills! Did 80 yesterday from Clinton to Athol with 4900 ft or so of climbing and was fine, and my 30's are in my rear view mirror!

If you really want to hedge your bets, then go with a 12-27 cassette. That's what I run along with a 39/53 up front. I live in a fairly hilly area of Seattle and so far I've been able to get by. I also would not consider myself a very strong rider. My house is on a plateau so going up and down requires me to tackle an average 9% grade incline each time. Sometimes I do cheat and drive to the bottom though. I tend to find that triples are really finicky to set up and just don't seem to shift as nicely. This is especially true if you have really short chainstays.

i can't give u a direct report, but my bro tried a lemond zurich '04 and really liked it. at that price range, though, you could even look at the full carbon trek OCLV 5200.
if i recall, though, there is a significant difference with this year's zurich and those of the past, namely the carbon top tube. that's probably pretty cool.

as for fitting, if you get a bike that's generally correct, all the little adjustments are, in my opinion, things you will change on your own, as time passes. when you go for your first 30k, 50k, 75k ride, etc., you will know what needs to be changed. i wouldn't worry too much about it, since at this point you just need to get a generally good whack at things. i like the idea of the guy going on a ride with you and changing things as you go. that's a nice way to do it. my advice would be to bring your bike shorts, bike shoes, and go for a 30 minute ride or so with the chum.

you'll be changing things a little bit after a month of riding anyway.

sd

I've ridden the 5200 and didn't like it at all. As far as riding with the guy, I'm not too sure that's exactly what he meant. Maybe I didn't convey it clearly- he meant I should bring a wrench and make my own adjustments. Not that I wouldn't do that anyway, but he would have inspired more confidence in his shop if he seemed to know (or at least pretend to know) more about fitting than, "yeah, it looks good."

It's no surprise however that this was the only Zurich he had and he said the price was negotiable because they would like to move expensive bikes to bring in more low-end confort machines where they can turn a faster profit.

Tomorrow, I'm calling several other shops to see about local pricing...then I'll make a decision about where to buy (if indeed this is the bike I go for)...remember my LBS doesn't do Lemond.

PJ

Have you tried eBay?

pjbaz,

i suppose high end bike shops with serotta size cycles can put together a bike that's "fit for you". but since you're a beginner, whatever they fit you with would only work for a few months. as you get more limber and stronger, you will want a different fit. i think the "in general" fit is fine. some bike shops have a 30-day span in which you can go back and get re-fit with longer/shorter/higher/lower stems, etc. those are nice and if you can do that go for it. otherwise, ebay and roadbikereview.com has nice classifieds.

no matter what, though, you should carry a set of hex wrenches when you ride; the LBS guy you spoke with might be lazy, but he's right -- you should do your own fitting, when all is said and done. all they can do is put you in the general vicinity.

sd

I'm not totally new to riding but this will be the first bike that is actually "fit" for me. Everything else I own/ride has been bought used and cheap so it's been thorugh luck that frames were even in the right vicinity for size. Since this is my first new bike I want to be in the ballpark right out of the box.

I do carry tools and will definitely make adjustments as I adjust to the new machine.
I've searched both ebay and roadbikereview.com but the right bike hasn't shown up...yet.

The thing that I found odd was that he told me he pretty much guessed at sizing. I shouldn't be surprised, I've been in good shops and bad shops some with knowledge and others without. BUT, I've never been in a shop that basically admitted to not knowing what they were talking about.

Ultimately, I guess I need to find a shop that carries the bike I want and at least "appears" to have a clue. Seriously, if I'm going to drop more than 2G's on a new ride I don't want to find out in three months (as I get more fit and more flexible) that I bought a frame size too small.

There is a shop in CT that has an in-house lady who is a fit specialist. She works for them part-time and runs a fit business on her own. She's worked with Olympians and national racers, etc. She uses all the toys (Serotta size cycle, trainers, it appears she has every saddle known to man in a big basket, etc.) and spends a few hours setting up a rider on their bike. She covers everything including cleat position. I plan on going to her but want to be in the right ballpark when I buy so getting truly fit isn't a problem.

Like I said earlier, this is just a frustrating part of bicycling. I know that once I buy and am on the road it'll all be groovy.

I do tend to analyze the crap out of major purchases because I like to be informed. Sometimes I know more about a product than the salesman.

Thanks for the info (and letting me vent) as always.
PJBAZ

Just thought I'd drop in and offer two cents.

I recently returned to the road after a decade or so of MTB. I knew I wanted steel, at least a 105 gruppo and that was about it. I shopped around a little and found a left over '03 Alp d'Huez (that's the steel one, full 105.) I test rode it and it beat the crap out of me. I have no idea why. I mean, I wanted that bike, really wanted to like it, but we just didn't work together. It was what I expected of an aluminum frame, stiff like crazy. That experience made me rule out a leftover '03 (steel) Zurich I found a nice deal on at a different shop.

So then I test rode a few alu framed bikes, just for comparison, a Klein, an Iron Horse, a Giant, a Cannondale. I actually found that I liked them better, so accepted that I should give aluminum a chance in my selections.

I travelled a little to try an '04 Alp d'Huez (the aluminum version) and an '04 Zurich (steel/carbon.) Well the Zurich blew me away. I loved it, but the price was a bit too tough to bear. The alu Alp d'Huez was great too though, and I decided to go back to my LBS and order one. Why did I like the alu version better than the steel? I have no idea, if you know, feel free to enlighten me. Now this is where it got complicated. We couldn't get one. -Something from the supplier about Shimano not making enough parts, so bikes becoming somewhat scarce. (I'd actually heard the same thing from another guy at another shop, so either it's true, or it's a stock story when you can't get a bike, I tended to believe it.)

-Anyway, it worked out for the better. We ended up making a nice deal on a brand new steel/carbon Buenos Aires and it's just right. Smooth as silk just like the Zurich I tried. It only suffers a little in some components against that model. The ride is really comfortable and the angles seem to work for me. Thus far about 50K is the fartherst I've gone in one ride (50K sounds so much cooler than "about 30 miles") and I love it. So that's my contribution vis a vis LeMonds, frame materials and so on. Maybe it'll help, or at least be a little interesting.

I've ridden the Lemonds, both steel and the new mixed breed, and loved the ride of both. I'm on old steel right now anyway. Basically, my decision will be made on availability and cost.

The Shimano story is apparently true. I've heard it from several other shops in CT. Supposedly Shimano stopped producing way too many extra parts ordered by bike manufacturers that were traditionally sold off to online retailers when they finished building the run of bikes for that year. It was an attempt to stem the tide of online dealers killing the LBS crowd. Now, they sell only what manufacturers need to build a bike run.

I don't know why you would have been abused on 853 though...seems strange.

PJ

I bought a full Dura Ace 10 groupo last month and everything was in stock at Performance. Wonder if that's because it was a new gruppo for 2004.

Maybe...the stuff I was hearing was through a dealer so they may just be passing the same stuff they were told by someone up the line who also new nothing about actual supply issues.

PJ

I have the 2004 Buenos Aires and really like it. It's the same frame as the '04 Zurich, but with 105 brakes, front derailleur, and bottom bracket, the rest of the group is Ultegra like the Zurich. The '04 Zurich lists for about $2300; the '04 Buenos Aires is ~$1900 with the triple (maybe $150 less for the double).

I have 1400 miles on my bike (including my first metric century), and find the ride and fit great for me. The carbon/steel combo gives a very smooth ride, the frame geometry is pretty responsive and fits my torso really well. Mine has the triple, which is certainly useful here in N. California, where most rides > 20 miles require one or more climbs of 1200-1800 feet.

Fit is everything - if it feels right, you'll ride more, enjoy it more, and proper fit will reduce the risk of injury. I'd ask more about this dealer's ability to fit you - or if he could refer you to an expert for a fitting, if they don't do it.

I've overheard Bay Area dealers talking about Shimano parts shortages, so I think there is some issue there, but don't know the cause.