Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - gan well pro / 3rensho

just wondering if there is a place to get 3rensho frames. i am looking into the gan well pro frames because it seems that the 3rensho frames are very hard to find. Am i right to assume that the 3rensho frames are not being made anymore?

thanks

d

The framebuilder behind 3rensho was paralyzed in a car crash, so no new frames are being built. If you need to buy one, Yellow Jersey has some: http://www.yellowjersey.org/bikes.html

This may be pretty esoteric to most, but here is 3rensho's replacement corp. (ME types will understand)

http://www.makino.com/
http://www.makino.co.jp/index_e.html
http://www.ipnews.com/archives/general_editorials/april02/makino.htm

EDIT: Unfortunately, I doubt they'll make you a custom track bike...

yeah it doesn't seem that way. Well what do you guys think of gan well pro frames. I have never ridden one and would love to know more about them. any thoughts?

d

yeah it doesn't seem that way. Well what do you guys think of gan well pro frames. I have never ridden one and would love to know more about them. any thoughts?

d

(wishful thinking) I like to see a head to head comparison of a nagasawa and a gan well pro.

yeah yellow jersey has no more 3rencho, looks liek gan well pro for me

d

yeah it doesn't seem that way. Well what do you guys think of gan well pro frames. I have never ridden one and would love to know more about them. any thoughts?

d
John at business cycles said they were average quality frames and he sells them so he wasn't trying to steer me in another direction. Not bad, not stunning, just average. Now Nagasawa, there is something special. The are the same frame that the top Japanese Keirin riders use. That must tell you something there. The lug work on the frames is beautiful. They are definitely pricey, but if you are looking for the highest end frame then it is definitely worthy of consideration. My opinion at least. I plan on getting one early next year if I can swing it.

fixedgearhead

yeah the nagasawa is a bit out of reach for me. It is by far the best thing i have seen in a track frame. but right now i need to keep it closer to the gen well price. I am currently depating over the gen well pro or the cinelli olympic. the cinelli is a bit cheaper but i am really interested in the gen well.

d

This may be pretty esoteric to most, but here is 3rensho's replacement corp. (ME types will understand)

http://www.makino.com/
http://www.makino.co.jp/index_e.html
http://www.ipnews.com/archives/general_editorials/april02/makino.htm

EDIT: Unfortunately, I doubt they'll make you a custom track bike...

Why are you confusing me like this? I know it's easy and fun to make fun of me... But why?

I say wait around on ebay for a used 3rensho.

nah i am ready now. i will buy soon. i am not going to wait as the summer in the city passes me up. i need the bike anyway. i have a daily ride of 20 miles to and from my studio space. I have all the parts i need to put this bike together. it is just a matter of what frame. Looking at either the gold gan wan pro or the yellow cinelli. I will be sure to keep you posted

d

yeah the nagasawa is a bit out of reach for me. It is by far the best thing i have seen in a track frame. but right now i need to keep it closer to the gen well price. I am currently depating over the gen well pro or the cinelli olympic. the cinelli is a bit cheaper but i am really interested in the gen well.

d
The Cinelli is much more of a classic european track frame with proper flat fork crown/w round fork blades and chrome in abundance. The gan-well has a more modern looking fork crown and no chrome to speak of. They are both about the same price except that the gan-well usually comes with a headset which is JIS standard which limits your choice of after market headsets, ie: Chris King wont work on it. I would go for the Cinelli between the two, but then again I love Italian Iron.

fixedgearhead

good to know man thanks. If only they were the same price. The cinelli is $400 cheaper. I did not realize you can not put different headsets in there. I have a chris king now that i had in my condor, but i would be ok with the hatta. is there anything else i should know about these two bikes? front tire clearance? compatability? etc.

thanks for you help

d

good to know man thanks. If only they were the same price. The cinelli is $400 cheaper. I did not realize you can not put different headsets in there. I have a chris king now that i had in my condor, but i would be ok with the hatta. is there anything else i should know about these two bikes? front tire clearance? compatability? etc.

thanks for you help

d
The tire clearance on the Cinelli is limited to "maybe" 25mm. 23mm would be more apt to fit. Don't knw about the ganwell pro. The Hatta is a nice loose ball headset, but if you want cartridge then Shimano is the only one that provides one in JIS that I know of.

fixedgearhead

The tire clearance on the Cinelli is limited to "maybe" 25mm. 23mm would be more apt to fit. Don't knw about the ganwell pro. The Hatta is a nice loose ball headset, but if you want cartridge then Shimano is the only one that provides one in JIS that I know of.

fixedgearhead

there could be an issue with cinelli's italian bottom bracket shell (I am not sure), which may limit you to a certain type of BB.

mmmm good to know. it is italian threaded is it not? I think i have a campy itailian threaded bb laying around. if not i will just buuy one that fits. that is of course if i get the cinelli.

thanks

d

on another note i have never seen a yellow one in person. is the yellow a classic yellow or is it more bright and neon looking. It is hard to tell from photos. some seem more dull and some seem more neon bright. can anyone give me a scale to judge this by.

thanks

d

on another note i have never seen a yellow one in person. is the yellow a classic yellow or is it more bright and neon looking. It is hard to tell from photos. some seem more dull and some seem more neon bright. can anyone give me a scale to judge this by.

thanks

d
Neon and rather strange looking. Not the classic canary yellow. Some might like it, but I would opt for the Ferrari Red. You can get touch up paint from any model supply or hobby shop by asking for "Italian red". That is what I got, and you can't beat the Classic Italian red bicycle with chrome at every end.


fixedgearhead

yeah that is what i thought. too bad my last frame was bright red. can't do another. ohh well

d

Personally I think both bikes aren't worth the money. The Cinelli is $930 for a THRON tubed frame? You gotta be kidding me. Thron is like garden variety stuff, so you're paying a fair bit for what is essentially some lugs and a bit of chrome. As for the Gan Well Pro, well, just ignoring the name for a second, for the same price you can get a custom Foco frame and matching forks for the same sort of money that they want for a Gan Well Pro. I can't really see the value in that.

If I was a real nutso Japanophile, I'd probably only get a Nagasawa or keep an eye on eBay for a 3Rensho as User Name suggests. I'd be curious to see what people think of the Makinos, but I've never seen one or know anyone who has.

Personally I think both bikes aren't worth the money. The Cinelli is $930 for a THRON tubed frame? You gotta be kidding me. Thron is like garden variety stuff, so you're paying a fair bit for what is essentially some lugs and a bit of chrome. As for the Gan Well Pro, well, just ignoring the name for a second, for the same price you can get a custom Foco frame and matching forks for the same sort of money that they want for a Gan Well Pro. I can't really see the value in that.

If I was a real nutso Japanophile, I'd probably only get a Nagasawa or keep an eye on eBay for a 3Rensho as User Name suggests. I'd be curious to see what people think of the Makinos, but I've never seen one or know anyone who has.

I wasn't comparing Cinelli with Nagasawa. I was comparing Cinelli with Gan-Well and of that comparison I think that the Cinelli is the better value for esthetic as well as construction materials. The lugs are far nicer than the gan-well offerings and the round fork tubes are a better choice for track forks than the oval ones. Thron OS, that the Cinelli is made of, is a very good choice for building material for Track sprint frames where stiffness over weight is the preferred characteristic, when you factor in price. Now if price is no object then Nagasawa is the preferred choice. Otherwise the choice of Cinelli over Gan-Well is the better one in my opinion. Just like Reynolds 531 is a better choice for some applications due to the characteristics of the tubing over the more expensive 853 or other high end tube choices, even though 531 is a little long in the tooth for some.

fixedgearhead

I didn't say you were comparing Cinelli to Nagasawa - I was just illustrating the merits or lack thereof of both the Gan Well Pro and the Cinelli. I've seen the road version of the Cinelli track bike you have and it certainly appears well finished, but thats a lot of finish work on some pretty average pipes. I also suspect that they went with Thron because there's a higher margin for error when it comes to brazing the stuff - meaning that you wouldn't have to employ top shelf brazers to do the work.

I guess I'm just blowing my own horn here in a roundabout way - I'd rather see someone drop that sort of coin on a frame by a smaller custom builder, rather than supporting the mythology of Italian framebuilding that really doesn't exist anymore. I know that's all part of the fixie ethos, but...meh. Each to their own I guess.

trust me if i could, i would get a nagasawa. there are two in the United states right now in my size and the they are in my favorite nagasawa colors. but i jsut can't seem to drop that kind of coin at the moment. right now i have a lead on a nice used frame so i guess i will see what happens. I know i will not be getting the cinelli mainly cause i do not liek red or the yellow. I would rather have a 3rencho but can;t seem to find one for sale. I do not want to wait for the build time of a custom because by the time i do that summer will be over. anyone want to sell me there nice steel lugged frame? no? didn't think so

d

Well I found this one custom frame builder a while back who says his turn around is a month...I dunno how accurate that is, but his website is www.terrafermacycles.com

they're custom, lugged, steel and in any color you want.....and they're less than a cinelli olympic.

What took you so long, digdug?

look prety nice. do you know anyone that has one?

how about other custom frame builders?

I don't personally know anyone who has one, so no. but they look pretty nice and the site is pretty in depth...like you probably saw how he explains the different tubing options and what tubes are good for what. (personally I found this pretty informative since I don't know much about all that...) I'd email him and just ask him some questions if I were you.

as far as other custom builders, there are tons, but I don't know what kind of turn around time they'd all have...and you said you wanted something kinda soon.

"What took you so long, digdug?"

why? because I've mentioned that builder several times? I dunno, he makes lugged steel track frames and the price is pretty good, it seems like a lot of people come on here looking for lugged steel track frames for a pretty good price, so it makes sense to me.

Try Mikkelsen cycles here in the east bay. A local shop in San Francisco told me that they could have a custom frame in my hands in about two weeks after the time of measurement. I don't know if that same turnaround time applies to all shops, or all parts of the country, but it would definitely be worth looking into. Mikkelsen seems to be a very reputable builder here in the bay area, as I see many of his bikes on the road.

On another note, could someone explain to me what makes Nagagsawa's worth the two grand price tag? Yes, I realize that there is a deeply rooted culture of kierin racing there, blah blah blah, but could one steel frame really be that much better than one half it's price? It seems like the tubeset used on Nagasawa is similar to that of other builders, and I must assume that the geometry is similar as well, so how could it ride any better?
As for craftsmanship, I don't understand how their lugs are "better" than others. If someone could point out specific details to me, that would help clarify things. His frames don't appear to be of any higher level craftsmanship than say a waterford or a vanilla. I don't mean to bash on Nagasawa, I just want to know why they cost so much, and why there is so much hype surrounding them? Any light shed on this would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

I didn't say you were comparing Cinelli to Nagasawa - I was just illustrating the merits or lack thereof of both the Gan Well Pro and the Cinelli. I've seen the road version of the Cinelli track bike you have and it certainly appears well finished, but thats a lot of finish work on some pretty average pipes. I also suspect that they went with Thron because there's a higher margin for error when it comes to brazing the stuff - meaning that you wouldn't have to employ top shelf brazers to do the work.

I guess I'm just blowing my own horn here in a roundabout way - I'd rather see someone drop that sort of coin on a frame by a smaller custom builder, rather than supporting the mythology of Italian framebuilding that really doesn't exist anymore. I know that's all part of the fixie ethos, but...meh. Each to their own I guess.

Actually you probably haven't seen the road frame that I have. It started out life as a Cinelli Super Corsa road frame made out of Neuron frame Tubes. After deciding to convert it to a fixed gear I turned it over to my local custom frame builder who added Stainless Steel Track Ends and S & S couplings, then a new paint job. I agree with the idea of using a custom frame builder for some things including new builds and frame mods and fixes. I just happen to like the look and ride characteristics of the Cinelli Olympic. There is some truth about the lack of cred. in regards to Italian frame makers today. That said, I think they did a fairly good job on the Olympic. Not everybody may agree, but if I'm happy, then that is all that matters to me. The Thron tubes lend themselves to Lug construction rather admirably. The Foco is probably best used for Fillet brazing or tig work. I tend to like lugged frames to the exclusion of all others. Just a Retro-grouch I guess. I have had many frames built by custom frame makers in the past and will probably do so again in the future so you can be assured of my continuing support of that segment of the industry. I will also probably continue to buy off the shelf frame when they catch my fancy and meet the needs that I have. You can never have too many bicycles is my motto.


fixedgearhead