Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - How do female cyclists train for long distance?

Since drafting is such an important part of cycling, at least with respect to open group riding, how do females interested in excelling at long distance solo rides train?

Is it better for female cyclists to draft faster riders? Or is it better for a female to train alone to measure her progress?

How can women maximize their training with respect to the fact they are faced with training environments that consist of mostly male riders who are stronger and faster? Is it better to ride with men, or go it alone?

i know women of all speeds. do both. its always good to mix it up with faster riders than you. i rode with a woman last year that really put the hurting on me and my whole group. IMO just find a group in your speed range that contains a group of riders that is faster than you. it really doesn't matter if your male or female. GO RIDE and ENJOY the PAIN! then for the long haul jump in with a group that is about your speed and enjoy the scenery.

Um, what?

Sometimes I ride with faster people and hang on until I get dropped. Sometimes I find a group that is a speed that challenges me and I can just barely do my pulls. Sometimes we're all well-matched. Sometimes I ride alone. Sometimes I ride with my slightly-slower friends and pull the whole time. Sometimes I ride with my way-slower friends and it's a recovery day for me and a sufferfest for them.

Any of these people can be any mix of genders, sometimes all guys, sometimes all gals. I guess I'm lucky that I belong to a women's club with a strong race team.

Is that different for guys?

Um, what?

Sometimes I ride with faster people and hang on until I get dropped. Sometimes I find a group that is a speed that challenges me and I can just barely do my pulls. Sometimes we're all well-matched. Sometimes I ride alone. Sometimes I ride with my slightly-slower friends and pull the whole time. Sometimes I ride with my way-slower friends and it's a recovery day for me and a sufferfest for them.

Any of these people can be any mix of genders, sometimes all guys, sometimes all gals. I guess I'm lucky that I belong to a women's club with a strong race team.

Is that different for guys?

ill ride with anybody guy or gal. i am more interested in faster than i groups. so if that includes a fast chick that kicks my ***** so be it. even when riding centuries ill choose a group that is going to keep me at my upper limits especially for that distance. i like riding with the ladies the most on long rides. less egos most of the time.

Women are on pretty much every classification of club ride I've done, including "A" rides. Regardless of gender, if you're a "B16" rider, then you're a B16 rider.

Not to mention that you don't need to do group rides as part of your training. I believe it's a good idea because it breaks up your routine and is socially pleasant (one presumes...), but it's not necessary.

As long as local clubs have a good range of speeds and aptitudes, the role and effect of doing a group ride should be the same for men and women.

Um, what?

Sometimes I ride with faster people and hang on until I get dropped. Sometimes I find a group that is a speed that challenges me and I can just barely do my pulls. Sometimes we're all well-matched. Sometimes I ride alone. Sometimes I ride with my slightly-slower friends and pull the whole time. Sometimes I ride with my way-slower friends and it's a recovery day for me and a sufferfest for them.

Any of these people can be any mix of genders, sometimes all guys, sometimes all gals. I guess I'm lucky that I belong to a women's club with a strong race team.

Is that different for guys?

Nope. Same deal for us XY'ers.

I guess my post was sexist because I assume on average, any given women cyclists are likely to be weaker than male riders. So the heart of the premise for asking this question was to discuss the differences of benefits between group riders who do equal shares of the work and group riders who "sit in" all ride long.

A non-sexist approach to the question would read, "How does a cyclist compare the training value of riding with a fast group and sitting in as opposed to "riding hard" on his/her own?" If a cyclist is competing in long distance events, some of which may be non-drafting - hows does a cyclist know if he/she is learning enough about their own pacing abilities?

In most training regimens, you're going to focus on heart rate and/or power output with the goal of increasing LT. It doesn't matter how or why you're working at a specific level of effort on that ride; what matters is that you are using the appropriate levels of effort per your training schedule.

For example: if your schedule requires you to do a long day in Zone 3, it doesn't matter if you're in a paceline and riding at 20mph, or solo at 17mph. What matters is that your heart rate stays below 80% max HR for as much of the ride as possible.

Hopefully anyone who regularly rides in a paceline will understand that the aerodynamic advantages of drafting allow you to ride faster with the same level of effort, and keep that in mind when evaluating their expected solo speeds. (HRM results would indicate that anyway, of course.)

Also, chances are pretty good that when you're training -- especially with a solo event in mind -- you will do enough solo training rides to get a good idea of what pace you want to hold for the event.

Thanks for the re-word. I agree that women are generally slower than men. (I like the word "slower" better than the word "weaker" - there's endurance to consider as well as speed.) But that doesn't mean we can't find groups that are appropriate to train with.

I'm not an expert at all about training, but since I'm already in this thread I'll add my perspective from the mid/back of the back.

I think you have two totally distinct questions, and they are getting all mixed up together

1) Group ride training benefits for the slower people in the group:
Just because you are slower does NOT mean you aren't getting a training benefit from group riding - just the opposite! I can get a really hard workout in a group that's stronger than me if I can barely hang on, but if i feel like I'm loafing I take more/longer pulls. Maybe you look at is as "sitting in" if you're the stronger rider and have never experienced being the slower one in the group, but if you have, you know what I'm talking about.

I've been the weakest rider in a group lots, and it can work fine, but sometimes you have to check your ego and ask for them to slow down so you can stay on. Usually I'll say something like "I'm cracked, if we don't slow down a teeny bit I'm going to fall off" - then they can decide what they want to do.

Or, I can get an awesome workout chasing every rabbit I see on the road if I'm solo, or just kicking my own ass.

Or I can phone it in and get nothing solo or with a group.

2) Training for solo rides in a group:
I think if you are trying to learn what you can do solo, solo rides are important. If you are trying to improve solo mental skills (decision making, pacing), solo rides are important. If you are trying to get a physicial workout / training benefit, either solo or in groups works, as long as the group isn't too slow. So, I guess women have an advantage, since it's less likely that a mixed-gender group will be too slow for us.

I guess my post was sexist because I assume on average, any given women cyclists are likely to be weaker than male riders. So the heart of the premise for asking this question was to discuss the differences of benefits between group riders who do equal shares of the work and group riders who "sit in" all ride long.

A non-sexist approach to the question would read, "How does a cyclist compare the training value of riding with a fast group and sitting in as opposed to "riding hard" on his/her own?" If a cyclist is competing in long distance events, some of which may be non-drafting - hows does a cyclist know if he/she is learning enough about their own pacing abilities?


Richard,

Just out of curiousity (and potentially so I can help if possible), what is your motivation for this question? I have this same question, and I think it's because of my inexperience in the realm of cycling as training. But based on many comments you've made, you seem to be a very experienced distance rider, having offered to school many demonstrably senior distance riders in fine points. Not trying to be snarky, just trying to put your want into perspective.

Road Fan

Richard,
Just out of curiousity (and potentially so I can help if possible), what is your motivation for this question? Road Fan

I don't want to answer for "Richard" but I've known him for a long time (Yikes, 25+ years), and I know he has mentored several excellent female cyclists.

My guess is that he's looking for ways to improve his mentorship as applicable to future female cyslists.

But I could be wrong.

Rick / OCRR

Ok, thanks, I suspected it might be along those lines -- Road Fan

Just out of curiousity (and potentially so I can help if possible), what is your motivation for this question? I have this same question, and I think it's because of my inexperience in the realm of cycling as training.
There are distinct advantages as well as draw backs to every training ride selection. ____________________________________________________________





And as Bacci noted:
It doesn't matter how or why you're working at a specific level of effort on that ride; what matters is that you are using the appropriate levels of effort per your training schedule. Right! The most important aspect of "most" training ride selections has to do with applying the correct intensity and duration to affect a positive adaptation. But, as anyone would note, there is more to overall training needs than specific physiological improvements.


The premise for this discussion was to elicit comments about women, in particular women who may find themselves competing in long distance events. How does one know for sure whether the benefits and enjoyment of riding in a group is as valuable as discovering one's own character when faced with solo, and especially adverse-solo riding conditions?


Surely, I'm just licking around "hypothetical-s" - back in the day, when and if I was coaching women, a group ride with them was as much a tutorial on time-trialing as it was group-riding work. So, it got me wondering if other women had novel perspectives about group versus solo training.

I pretty much agree with what valygirl said.

Just cause you're "sitting in" on a group ride doesn't mean you are working your butt off to stay there.

I ride with men, with women, and with mixed groups. If I'm faster, I'll spend more time up front. If I'm weaker, I'll spend more time in the middle holding on. If I'm not as strong, but feeling feisty, I'll take my pulls & see how long I can hang on.

I can push myself pretty well on my own. Knowing your body's limits allows you to train better - as any athlete knows, whether male or female.

I am currently training for my first double century. I started riding with a club group a few weeks ago. I was the only female rider the times I have gone. I am not the slowest rider, but I am in the bottom third of the group.

Believe it or not, my biggest problem is being slowest on long downhills. I have to crank pretty hard to keep up with the bigger men. I'm always out of breath at the end of a long downhill, while they are nice and rested. :o I use the group rides to improve my speed. There's no way I would push myself like that on my own.

I also do long solo rides to work on my endurance pacing, and to get used to dealing with headwinds and other issues on my own. I hope to find a group to ride with during the double century, but if I end up riding by myself a lot, I'll feel comfortable doing it.

Knowing your body's limits allows you to train better

Thats my opinion right there. just like my sig says:D

I also do long solo rides to work on my endurance pacing, and to get used to dealing with headwinds and other issues on my own. I hope to find a group to ride with during the double century, but if I end up riding by myself a lot, I'll feel comfortable doing it. Yes, of course this is most likely the best approach. Part of my reasons for raising this issue had to do with what I was noticing about social behavior of female cyclists, with respect to what I expect of their male counterparts.

My experience suggests that for any female rider - on a brevet - or any group ride, that the likely hood, a seeing any female cyclists struggling into a control or a rest stop by themselves is "zero."

In other words, women who use "group rides" as training devices, whether it is a brevet or century ride or whatever, almost "never" ride alone. On the other hand, an many as 30% to 50% of the male riders may be barreling/straggling along at their own successful or dismal pace.

This observation has led me to conclude, that to due to social conventions, women in general train a higher percentage of time in group situations than men. And I doubt that the culture of the "fairer sex" and "chivalry" exercised by men results in the most beneficial outcomes for those women truly interested in developing the self-knowledge to endure long rides unaided.

Thanks for the help - in mulling this over, the subject at face-value seems rather simple, but has resulted in some clarity for Doctor Dick...

Yes, of course this is most likely the best approach. Part of my reasons for raising this issue had to do with what I was noticing about social behavior of female cyclists, with respect to what I expect of their male counterparts.

My experience suggests that for any female rider - on a brevet - or any group ride, that the likely hood, a seeing any female cyclists struggling into a control or a rest stop by themselves is "zero."

In other words, women who use "group rides" as training devices, whether it is a brevet or century ride or whatever, almost "never" ride alone. On the other hand, an many as 30% to 50% of the male riders may be barreling/straggling along at their own successful or dismal pace.

This observation has led me to conclude, that to due to social conventions, women in general train a higher percentage of time in group situations than men. And I doubt that the culture of the "fairer sex" and "chivalry" exercised by men results in the most beneficial outcomes for those women truly interested in developing the self-knowledge to endure long rides unaided.

Thanks for the help - in mulling this over, the subject at face-value seems rather simple, but has resulted in some clarity for Doctor Dick...Not the women I know and have ridden with. Women do tend to be a little slower than men and thus, around here (PNW) anyway, have a harder time finding a competitive group ride environment. Thus many women train solo. Too few women ride with the fast group because it's just too fast, and the next group back seldom rides at their limit like the fast group does. That's just the dynamic I see around here. I see plenty of solo women on brevets and long rides. Maybe they have a harder time finding a group where they can test their limits and thus they need the solo thing. Or maybe that's because I'll tend to be nearer the front than the average woman and thus see the more competitive individuals. Possibly some women are less competitive, and don't seek out a competitive group ride environment. I have heard racer girls complain about people not being willing to do the work to see another rider go up the road at the finish. But men do that, too.

I do notice that fewer solo women than men will jump to catch my wheel. Some do, but many don't. I kind of put that down to the crap that women are fed in our society about their ability. Some would call that self-knowledge.

I do practice a little "chivalry" in the fast group. Maybe. The whole idea is to see how much hurt you can put on the other riders, and the women who do come out fast do it and respond to it just like the men. If a woman gets dropped, I'll go back and tow her up. I'll do the same for a man, but it is a little different with a woman. Either one, if they can't hold my wheel, they're gone at least until the regroup. Sorry.

So my guess is that wherever you live, there may be local social mores that do not apply in other areas of the country. And possibly there are two major types of riders, both male and female - competitive and social and one natually sees more social females. Male or female, you gotta have that fire in yer belly if you want to go off the front. I find the women who will take the front and pull until their eye sockets bleed to be very interesting people.

And I also agree with valygrl.

CbadRider: Maybe a change in position, and maybe some coaching from a fast descender. Coaching side by side really helps. You can immediately see what makes a difference. The other thing is to get the feel for when to go hard to grab a wheel as you go over the top. It's worth the expenditure. Once you're drafting some refrigerator you should be good if your technique is.