Advocacy & Safety - why are there so few vehicular cyclists

why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter? If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly. Here are some reasons I have come up with for why VC is not the gold standard:

cycling has only been around for 100 years and so has not evolved as much as other activities
VC requires powerful front and rear lights which have only been possible with recent advances in the LED technology

Natural selection.

Self preservation instinct

Trollage?

In New York City, it's against the law for cyclists over 10 years of age to ride on sidewalks, or ride against traffic (though all the delivery guys seem to do so, one even got into an argument with me claiming it was much safer to see the car that was about to hit you versus having it take you from behind).

However, where I'm moving in Long Island, the major roads like Jericho Turnpike don't have much extra space, and drivers don't expect to see a cyclist... and would likely mow him down before they realize what that funny thing with the reflective jacket and the bright reflectors & lights actually was. I wouldn't dream of going on anything BUT the sidewalk for most of my route there.

Furthermore, the sidewalk on the north side of Jericho Turnpike (at least around me) is WAY nicer than on the other side, so I'll likely go on the same sidewalk both ways...

Unlike a musical instrument, anybody can hop on a bike and ride it. There's no compelling reason for people to take either take a course or become informed on their own. So, most people, especially in cultures that aren't naturally inclined to cycle, end up being pedestrians on a bike, rather than cyclists. They follow pedestrian practice when they ride, not vehicular practice. It doesn't help that our North American cities and suburbs are designed for the rapid movement of automobile traffic. It's just too fast to encourage people to adopt vehicular cycling.

Unlike a musical instrument, anybody can hop on a bike and ride it. There's no compelling reason for people to take either take a course or become informed on their own. So, most people, especially in cultures that aren't naturally inclined to cycle, end up being pedestrians on a bike, rather than cyclists. They follow pedestrian practice when they ride, not vehicular practice. It doesn't help that our North American cities and suburbs are designed for the rapid movement of automobile traffic. It's just too fast to encourage people to adopt vehicular cycling.

Those are some good points to consider..Is it safe to generalize that any skill that is easy to learn will have a majority of unexceptional practitioners?

why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter? If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly. Here are some reasons I have come up with for why VC is not the gold standard:

cycling has only been around for 100 years and so has not evolved as much as other activities
VC requires powerful front and rear lights which have only been possible with recent advances in the LED technology

You are entitled to have your own reasons to match your assumptions that Vehicular Cycling represents "correct cycling" or talented people demonstrating the craft of cycling, let alone the Gold Standard of anything. All of it pegs the hot air rhetoric meter.

VC requires powerful front and rear lights which have only been possible with recent advances in the LED technology

Ummm... What?



Why isn't this in the VC thread? It's not even in A&S.

Ummm... What?



Why isn't this in the VC thread? It's not even in A&S.

Where could you get a 200+ lumen light that runs on AA batteries for under $50 ten years ago? Anyways my question is more general in nature as to why there is such a variety of riding styles given how prevalent the activity is? One would think the more people doing it, the more likely they are to be doing it consistently, like guitar.

since when does cycling by *any* set of standards, including VC, during the day require "powerful lights"?

BTW, OP - this should have gone in the A&S forum. Moved in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

Where could you get a 200+ lumen light that runs on AA batteries for under $50 ten years ago? Anyways my question is more general in nature as to why there is such a variety of riding styles given how prevalent the activity is? One would think the more people doing it, the more likely they are to be doing it consistently, like guitar.

1) what light is that? Dinotte is way over $50, and P7s run on 18650 batteries. I have a $20 AA flashlight that puts out about 150 lumens, though, so i guess two of those would fit the bill.

2) The simple fact that I ride on the road already puts me around the 99th percentile in vehicular-riding-ness in my area; taking the lane will put me at 100. I think this comes from the simple fear of cars ingrained on children, and even many adults.

3) In my area, where it's not hard to go a month or more without seeing a cyclist on the road in the summer, cyclists do ride consistently - on sidewalks and paths.

as a point of reference, I used to walk home (which takes 1 hour) 3 days a week, and from August last year to April or so, I have only seen three cyclists riding on the road. Granted, most of this is winter months, but still...

since when does cycling by *any* set of standards, including VC, during the day require "powerful lights"?

BTW, OP - this should have gone in the A&S forum. Moved in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

it's the same reason that cars have DRL. Now consider the fact that cyclists have no cage to protect them and the need for powerful lights becomes that much more important.

Trollage?

Bingo.

Hopefully this thread will be moved to the VC sub-forum. Until then, I will attempt a reply similar to an old friend from that forum.


why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter?

How did you arrive at that figure?



If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly.

Is Vehicular Cycling the only way to ride a bicycle correctly?



cycling has only been around for 100 years and so has not evolved as much as other activities

What other activities are you talking about and how have they evolved?



VC requires powerful front and rear lights which have only been possible with recent advances in the LED technology

Really? Then how did John Forester ride in a VC manner in the 1970s ?

Sorry, I could not help it. :D

One more thing since we are trolling and I have been drinking...

Effective Cycling is great as a handy door stop.

One more thing since we are trolling and I have been drinking...

Effective Cycling is great as a handy door stop.

Well if you don't want your copy, send it to me! :thumb:

H

Really? Then how did John Forester ride in a VC manner in the 1970s ?

Sorry, I could not help it. :D

I never heard of John Forester, but I just googled him. His website is pretty interesting. In fact he says the same thing I said:



The greatest defect in American bicycling is the predominance of incompetent, unlawful, fearful, and superstitious cycling behaviors and beliefs among the population, both bicycling and general, and the corresponding paucity of lawful, competent, and confident cyclists.

Uh, since Forester is the supposed "founder" of VC, I think it's fair to say you're the one saying the same thing he did.


Well if you don't want your copy, send it to me! :thumb:

But then his door will fall shut!

why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter? If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly.

youtube cycling how-to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU4nKKq02BU&feature=related

Well if you don't want your copy, send it to me! :thumb:

Like degnaw said, I need it. ;)

I tried using The Art of Cycling by Robert Hurst, but as you can see, it lacks enough pages
to actually stop the door.

I never heard of John Forester, but I just googled him. His website is pretty interesting. In fact he says the same thing I said:


OK, I see.

What about answers to the other questions I posed to you?

why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter? If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly. Here are some reasons I have come up with for why VC is not the gold standard:

cycling has only been around for 100 years and so has not evolved as much as other activities
VC requires powerful front and rear lights which have only been possible with recent advances in the LED technology

They don't, 95% is a ridiculous exaggeration, if there are few bicyclists in your area it may seem that way to you but it isn't that way.

There is no consensus on how to play a guitar correctly, and youtube has many videos of pro and amateur cyclists demonstrating various skills at various levels.

Cycling has been around for more than 100 years but has evolved at a ready pace despite it's young age compared to many other contraptions.

VC requires dogma and faith with a rigorous standard of self aggrandizement that few can meet and that even fewer want to try to meet. It is a flawed system that simply has a very vocal chorus of wingnuts, that's all. To keep the wingnuts occupied and allow everyone else to talk about cycling there is a special forum for them in a special corner of the special needs forum at the top of the rest of the forums. Go there.

They don't, 95% is a ridiculous exaggeration, if there are few bicyclists in your area it may seem that way to you but it isn't that way.

If sidewalk riders are included in that figure, and he lives in an exurb (as I do), it may well be 95% or more.

why do 95% of cyclists either ride the wrong way, on sidewalks or in the gutter? If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly. Here are some reasons I have come up with for why VC is not the gold standard:

Why do 95% of air guitarists move their fingers in a manner that would never produce any sounds even remotely resembleing the music they are listening to? We need a consensus on a gold standard for air guitarists. :p

I'm not too sure about the "vehicular cycling" aspect, but the vast majority of bicycles are sold at retail outlets that provide no information or instruction, nor require their customers to sign a waiver that it is their responsibility to know the rules of the road regarding the vehicle they are purchasing.

Just yesterday I encountered a couple riding the wrong way on the state highway. It shocked me to think that a person could make it this far in life without knowing the simplest of traffic laws pertaining to bicycles...until I realized that there are no questions about bicycles on any auto driver's license test I've ever seen, even though cyclists have a full legal right to use the roads and are very likely to be encountered.

Then again, I haven't seen any questions about ATVs or snowmobiles either, yet both are operated on our public roads with surprising frequency.

Since this thread has no inherent purpose besides trolling, it will suffice for pictures of people cycling without VC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3477532068_1cef98bb92.jpg?v=0

Why do 95% of air guitarists move their fingers in a manner that would never produce any sounds even remotely resembleing the music they are listening to? We need a consensus on a gold standard for air guitarists. :p

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BddCq1zFI4

Unlike a musical instrument, anybody can hop on a bike and ride it.

Yes, I've been having some trouble trying to ride my guitar.

:roflmao:

Since this thread has no inherent purpose besides trolling, it will suffice for pictures of people cycling without VC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3477532068_1cef98bb92.jpg?v=0

looks pretty VC to me...

round here, the vast majority of cyclists ride in what would be described as 'in a vehicular manner.'

I have no clue why troll with fake bait? strawman stuffing practice perhaps.

and dang, those new LEDs are nice, ain't they? lots of vehicular cyclists round here run bright LEDs day or night; most report a reduction in iffy crossing manuvers, ROW violations, and pullouts.

pictures of people cycling without VC:

do you ever not post in an A&S thread without posting pictures from copenhagencyclechic?

Fear

Helluva thing....Makes people do dopey stuff.

round here, the vast majority of cyclists ride in what would be described as 'in a vehicular manner.'

are you sure our definitions of vehicular cycling are the same? are these vast majority riding between the right tire track and the center of the lane?

are you sure our definitions of vehicular cycling are the same? are these vast majority riding between the right tire track and the center of the lane?

:roflmao2:

I'd guess Bek has a better grasp of VC than you, considering the exchanges between him and Mr. Forester. You know,
the man who coined the term "Vehicular Cycling".


I never heard of John Forester

Maybe you should rethink your definition.

:rolleyes:

In the city i'm in, we have an elaborate network of highly touted 'bike trails', most of which are sidewalks. Furthermore, most significant trips will have to have a substantial portion done on a 45 MPH speed limit arterial with turn lanes provided to prevent people from needing to slow down often, save for at intersections with other 45+ MPH arterials of the same type.
It is, to say the least, intimidating, particularly as the city pushes their sidewalks so much.

Like degnaw said, I need it. ;)

I tried using The Art of Cycling by Robert Hurst, but as you can see, it lacks enough pages
to actually stop the door.

Definitely not enough psychobabble in Robert Hurst's book, but that may not be such a bad thing.

If you search for guitar on YouTube you find lots of talented people demonstrating their craft. But there seems to be no consensus on how to ride a bicycle correctly.Are those guitarists demonstrating the "correct" way to play the guitar? Or are they demonstrating the way they play the guitar? My guess is it's the latter.

Think about this: I took guitar lessons years ago (although I am for the most part self-taught). My guitar teacher was left-handed, and he told me that the guitar is ideal for left-handers, because all of the chords and/or soloing is done with their dominant hand. And yet guitars for left-handers are constructed with the neck on the right, Hendrix turned his guitar upside down and played with his right hand (even though he was left-handed), etc. Was Hendrix playing "wrong"? Probably. Did it matter?

I would hazard a guess that there's as little consensus as to how to play a guitar "correctly" as there is to do anything else in life, including riding a bicycle.

I'm not too sure about the "vehicular cycling" aspect, but the vast majority of bicycles are sold at retail outlets that provide no information or instruction, nor require their customers to sign a waiver that it is their responsibility to know the rules of the road regarding the vehicle they are purchasing.And how are the vast majority of cars sold?

And how are the vast majority of cars sold?

Drivers have drivers licenses and have to take courses. Supposedly.

Drivers have drivers licenses and have to take courses. Supposedly.There's no requirement to have a driver's license when you buy a car. Only the wherewithal-- or at least the appearance of the wherewithal-- to pay for it. I have yet to be asked by any car salesman, whether I'm just kicking the tires, or buying the car, to sign a waiver regarding my familiarity with the rules of the road.

And yet guitars for left-handers are constructed with the neck on the right, Hendrix turned his guitar upside down and played with his right hand (even though he was left-handed), etc. Was Hendrix playing "wrong"? Probably. Did it matter?


I never heard of Hendrix, but I just googled him. His guitar mastery sounds pretty interesting...

(sorry, the above is not an actual quote, but I just couldn't resist.) :)

Regarding the actual thread subject, the reason most cyclists don't ride in a more vehicular manner is because of ignorance and/or fear. I wish more cyclists would though. I think it would make things better for everyone, non-cyclists included.

regarding the comparison of guitars to cycling, any professional sport will have top athletes with unorthodox techniques. However these athletes are the exception not the rule. You cannot single them out as role models. For example probably only 10% of self-taught guitar players will ever become good. But the percentage is much higher for those with proper training and coaching.

Most people ride in the gutter on sidewalks because they're afraid of getting hit by a car.. it doesn't seem so hard to understand really..

Most people ride in the gutter on sidewalks because they're afraid of getting hit by a car.. it doesn't seem so hard to understand really..

Ya but its a lot like standing under a tree during a thunderstorm, it may be your natural impulse but it is also the last place you want to be.

Ya but its a lot like standing under a tree during a thunderstorm, it may be your natural impulse but it is also the last place you want to be.

Well, i'm not saying I agree with that mentality. I prefer to ride in the street with the rest of traffic myself, but I believe that's what most people that ride in the sidewalk and gutter feel. (the fear of cars)

There are an awful lot of motorists around here who are unlicensed, and who do not really DRIVE in a very "vehicular" manner, so I don't suppose cyclists would be all that likely to ride in a vehicular manner, either.

There's no requirement to have a driver's license when you buy a car. Only the wherewithal-- or at least the appearance of the wherewithal-- to pay for it. I have yet to be asked by any car salesman, whether I'm just kicking the tires, or buying the car, to sign a waiver regarding my familiarity with the rules of the road.

You have to have insurance where my sis lives, that sounds like a common arrangement, is it possible to get valid liability without a DL?

You have to have insurance where my sis lives, that sounds like a common arrangement, is it possible to get valid liability without a DL?

I have been presented with countless liability insurance cards by unlicensed drivers. I am sure some of the cards are forged, of course, but with no centralized way of checking for liability insurance, there is no way to tell. (There is supposed to be such a system coming on-line now, or soon.) If insurance agents are writing liability policies for unlicensed drivers, it is a racket, because I will cite an unlicensed driver for failure to provide proof of financial responsibility, regardless, because around here, liability insurance is inapplicable if the driver is unlicensed. The state requires a driver to maintain financial responsibility, not "have insurance." There is a difference.

I find plenty of drivers with neither insurance nor license, who have an invoice for the sale of the car.

Interestingly, I will find some of these cars registered to the unlicensed driver, even though one is SUPPOSED to show a driver's license and valid insurance card when obtaining or renewing registration. Perhaps some of the clerks are a bit sympatico, no?

Of course, some of the same forgers who provide fake insurance cards probably provide the fake registration stickers/documents. Unless a registration check is made, a careful driver can get away with being unlicensed, uninsured, and without registration for an indefinite period of time.

I can't help but think of a 40-50 year old guy I recently saw riding his bike. He was riding ok, and then there would be something in the road and he'd weave around it in a rather exaggerated loop. People have not been educated to hold their line on a bike, and they really haven't been educated about riding at all. Most of us have never heard of VC, and do not know how to do it. I wouldn't expect people to pick it up on their own.