Living Car Free - This is along the lines of simple living

I figure I'll share this link. It just makes you wonder.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090501/cm_csm/ycorson

Americans in Finland shared similar sentiments. But they weren't naive about the place, and there was a reason they weren't buying the latest toys. "I'll never become rich in Finland," one explained, "the taxes are just too high." But for him it was a trade-off worth making. "Great healthcare, basically free. My kids get one of the best educations in the world, free." By the way, that includes college, free. He had no plans to move back to the States.

As I spent more time in Helsinki, my own notion of the luxuries available in Finland expanded to include more than just the quiet pleasures of a cabin getaway. Finnish cities are filled with universally well-maintained and high-quality schools, hospitals, buses, trains, and parks. While most Finns might never be able to own a well-appointed SUV or a big house, they value the less-tangible assets they do have, which add up to quality of life and peace of mind.

Finland doesn't pay lip service to providing a level playing field for all its citizens. It really does give the vast majority of its citizens a fair and equal chance in life, in a way that the US just doesn't, no matter how much Americans like to think it does.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090501/cm_csm/ycorson


Gotdam communists.


;)

Maybe I am a bit jaded but it sounds a lot like living life on a bell curve. The description looks like a whole country that strives for mediocrity.

We do have places like that here in the US where people withdraw from society in general and live apart. They used to simply homestead BLM land and refuse to leave. While they didn’t get the health care or education they got the solitude. But the most telling was the intimation that the people seemed to be resigned to their condition as if they lost hope for being more or doing more.

Leveling the playing field most often simply means taking from those that produce and giving to those who do not or cannot for whatever reason. That only works when the producers can get some other reward and they don’t feel the burden of being the pack mule for society.

But remember I did preface all of this by indicating that I am a bit jaded.

Also interesting is the mention in the article of depression and alcoholism, so apparently their lifestyle is not a total panacea.

Aaron:)

Also interesting is the mention in the article of depression and alcoholism, so apparently their lifestyle is not a total panacea.

Aaron:)

That seems to happen a lot in those latitudes, unfortunately. I don't think people are really cut out for it, psychologically.

A great read on this very topic is Jeremy Rifkin's European Dream.
http://www.utne.com/2004-09-01/the-european-dream.aspx


That difference is reflected in the American and European Dreams, which at their core are about two diametrically opposed ideas about freedom and security. For Americans, freedom has long been associated with autonomy. An autonomous person is not dependent on others or vulnerable to circumstances beyond his or her control. To be autonomous one needs to be propertied. The more wealth one amasses, the more independent one is in the world. One is free by becoming self-reliant and an island unto oneself. With wealth comes exclusivity, and with exclusivity comes security.

The new European Dream is based on different assumptions about what constitutes freedom and security. For Europeans, freedom is found not in autonomy but in embeddedness. To be free is to have access to many interdependent relationships. The more communities one has access to, the more options one has for living a full and meaningful life. It is inclusivity that brings security -- belonging, not belongings.


However, your article does mention a topic that a great many individuals in North American can and do take advantage of... we get to experience tranquility by camping out or making extended trips in the country. For myself, this is usually a nice biking camping trip... or even a long day in the saddle and staying in a remote hotel room.

The Fins got it right in regard to education. You practically have to mortgage 10-15 years of your life or more to pay all your student loans today. The whole situation is all wrong and for the first time, I'm seeing colleges and universities "Advertise", trying to get students to borrow up to their eyeballs to attend their school! Everyone is broke and jobs are still laying people off by the truckloads.

However, your article does mention a topic that a great many individuals in North American can and do take advantage of... we get to experience tranquility by camping out or making extended trips in the country. For myself, this is usually a nice biking camping trip... or even a long day in the saddle and staying in a remote hotel room.


And ..... Europeans can't do that???????

And ..... Europeans can't do that???????

Never said they couldn't. In fact, with longer vacations and a less-driven attitude towards life-in-general, they frequently do.

The description looks like a whole country that strives for mediocrity.

Lousy Nokia.

Never said they couldn't. In fact, with longer vacations and a less-driven attitude towards life-in-general, they frequently do.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you wrote.

I like that more laid-back atmosphere over there ... the province I live in now is extremely driven with everyone rushing around like mad and working mega hours etc. ....... it just isn't "me".


And about the original article ... I like the idea of free health care and free schooling for everyone. It's close to that here in Canada, but we do have to pay for college.

practically have to mortgage 10-15 years of your life or more to pay all your student loans today,that's the key

I like that more laid-back atmosphere over there ... the province I live in now is extremely driven with everyone rushing around like mad and working mega hours etc. ....... it just isn't "me".


And about the original article ... I like the idea of free health care and free schooling for everyone.

Agreed on both counts.

Maybe I am a bit jaded but it sounds a lot like living life on a bell curve. The description looks like a whole country that strives for mediocrity.

We do have places like that here in the US where people withdraw from society in general and live apart. They used to simply homestead BLM land and refuse to leave. While they didn’t get the health care or education they got the solitude. But the most telling was the intimation that the people seemed to be resigned to their condition as if they lost hope for being more or doing more.

Leveling the playing field most often simply means taking from those that produce and giving to those who do not or cannot for whatever reason. That only works when the producers can get some other reward and they don’t feel the burden of being the pack mule for society.

But remember I did preface all of this by indicating that I am a bit jaded.

I have to agree with you, that you're perhaps a bit jaded. Well, you're not jaded at all, actually, but maybe you've drunk too deeply from the Reagan-era Kool-aid. Work and virtue do still lead to greater prosperity, all things being equal, but it's not equal by any stretch of the imagination. We now live in a culture where some people have fabulous wealth; they may even earn that fabulous wealth when they drive whole corporations into the ground, or make gambles that result in the economy of the entire world going into a tailspin. In large measure, they have access to that wealth because of the class they're born into. Meanwhile, tens of millions of other people strive to live with integrity and work their ass*s off their entire lives, and don't earn the equivalent of a single Wall Street bonus in ten years or more of labor. Tens of millions of others don't even try; they were raised in a culture which, when combined with a shoddy education, almost guarantees failure. A tiny portion of our population controls 80-90% of our assets. If we weren't a huge country that, historically, has been able to produce a huge amount of wealth, the US would have the class structure of a banana republic.

I'm not saying that productive people shouldn't enjoy the rewards of their brains and hard work; nor am I saying that we should systematically make everyone "equal." Given the nature of our people, we will never, ever, become Finland. However, as a society, we might want to reward the people who actually work a bit more, as opposed to those who own the capital. And maybe we should all be forced to re-read Thoreau, too.

however, as a society, we might want to reward the people who actually work a bit more, as opposed to those to own the capital. And maybe we should all be forced to re-read thoreau, too.

+$1,000,000.

I have to agree with you, that you're perhaps a bit jaded. Well, you're not jaded at all, actually, but maybe you've drunk too deeply from the Reagan-era Kool-aid. Work and virtue do still lead to greater prosperity, all things being equal, but it's not equal by any stretch of the imagination. We now live in a culture where some people have fabulous wealth; they may even earn that fabulous wealth when they drive whole corporations into the ground, or make gambles that result in the economy of the entire world going into a tailspin. In large measure, they have access to that wealth because of the class they're born into. Meanwhile, tens of millions of other people strive to live with integrity and work their ass*s off their entire lives, and don't earn the equivalent of a single Wall Street bonus in ten years or more of labor. Tens of millions of others don't even try; they were raised in a culture which, when combined with a shoddy education, almost guarantees failure. A tiny portion of our population controls 80-90% of our assets. If we weren't a huge country that, historically, has been able to produce a huge amount of wealth, the US would have the class structure of a banana republic.

I'm not saying that productive people shouldn't enjoy the rewards of their brains and hard work; nor am I saying that we should systematically make everyone "equal." Given the nature of our people, we will never, ever, become Finland. However, as a society, we might want to reward the people who actually work a bit more, as opposed to those who own the capital. And maybe we should all be forced to re-read Thoreau, too.

I might have deserved that.:lol:

I don’t have a problem with good pay for hard work. I was commenting on equal playing field in the article. And what the results seem to show.

"The Finns I met described high rates of depression and alcoholism among their countrymen, and admitted that many Finns seem to suffer from low self-esteem. When I returned to the dynamic bustle of New York, I was happy to be back, even with the financial crisis decimating the economy. "

Yes some of the rich misuse that richness. But it is strange that we live in a society that will remove Pacific Rim immigrants from the minority hiring list when they are still a small minority in our country. Seems they were able to make the playing field level without government assistance. Or do you disagree? I realize we no longer have quotas by legislation. But that isn’t the discussion it is the lifestyle described in the article. If depressed, low self esteem alcoholics are the result of an enlightened life style then what the article describes is painting a bleak picture of Finland. You don’t even have to drink Kool aid to see that. But according to the article they would be better off drinking Kool aid. Because the rich never sacrifice even in the most socialistic country I was simply saying it looks a bit like take from the doers and give to the do nots or can’ts.

I didn’t write the article I only commented on it based on the information provided.

By the way Thoreau wrote Walden and a pamphlet called Civil Disobedience. One was somewhat interesting even if it sounded a lot like Emmerson. The later I only agreed with the original beginning where he said he believed in the motto: That government is best which govern least. What I didn't care for: He went on to say he believed: That government is best which governs not at all. That to me is not a champion of socialism in any form, even in Finland. :rolleyes:

Following this discussion just remember no society or government is perfect. If you produce more you should be rewarded for your effort. A leveled playing field is a pipe dream .

Following this discussion just remember no society or government is perfect. If you produce more you should be rewarded for your effort. A leveled playing field is a pipe dream .

A level playing field is equal chances to produce, not guaranteed equal results.

In my 30+ years in the labor market effort is certainly not rewarded. I'm pretty sure that despite now having a degree and 30 years more experience that adjusted for inflation, I'm making less than I was when I was 23. In fact, I got hacked back 20% just a couple of weeks ago.