Road Cycling - shimano Ultegra vs. Dura-ace

I just bought a 2003 Cannondale R600 double and it came with the Tiagra front der. I'm not terribly pleased with it's shifting (not as smooth as I'd like). I'm planning on upgrading ASAP, just wondering of it's worth twice the price for the Dura-Ace. Any thoughts?

On that bike, you definately do not need Dura-Ace. Just get Ultegra in the rear. The front is not used that often, and it's not worth the money.

Don't bother with the upgrade, just get it adjusted properly. Also, lighten the load on the pedals while shifting - if you don't already. The front der is finickey - be gentle with it...:D

On that bike, you definately do not need Dura-Ace. Just get Ultegra in the rear. The front is not used that often, and it's not worth the money.

Would you explain the phrase "on that bike"? I assume Dura-ace is more race oriented then? Also, the rear is 105, is there a noticeable difference between that and Ultegra?

Ultegra would be a nice upgrade. Dura Ace is not needed at this time, the few grams of weight it saves is not worth the money.

Ultegra would be a nice upgrade. Dura Ace is not needed at this time, the few grams of weight it saves is not worth the money.

On the contrary, I just built up a Look KG461 (03 model) with all Dura Ace for about $2200(USD) (w/o the wheels of course). What a STEAL! Since Shimano brought out their 10-speed stuff, they are abandoning their 9-speed components (without good reason IMHO). Dura Ace is definitely the better components and if you can upgrade to the 9-speed components for a little more than Ultegra if you got the money, I'd jump on it. You'll get lighter(est) weight componentry (in the Shimano family) and will get better performance.

Since I was building a new bike it was easy for me to justify it. But, in you case, you have to reason with yourself and ask questions like: how much will you be riding, much hard are you on your bike, do you have the bucks to upgrade, is it really worth it?
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Your comparing a Look carbon bike that is meant for performance and racing to a Cannondale that is meant more for recreation. I had a Tiagra front derailleur on my Felt S32 and never noticed any problems but I didn't shift that often up front, of course a bar-end shifter can make minor adjustments which a STI shifter can't. Well, I would think 105 or Ultegra would be fine for a front derailleur. Of course you should do whatever it takes to make you happy riding your bike, whether it be upgrades or downgrades.

If you can feel a difference in a front derailleur, I would be amazed. If you blindfolded most people and asked them to shift an Alivio front derailleur and then a XT front derailleur on the same bike no one would know the difference.

I think the Ultegra drivetrain works great with the R600. If you "do" e-bay, there are some good deals to be had on the Ultegra line of components. I'm real picky about a very smooth drivetrain myself, so I can understand where you are coming from.
Good luck on whatever you decide.
Ride Safe,
Ti-Carbo

Remember the 3 areas of importance (where you want to spend your $) are:
[a] Frame/Fork
[b] Wheelset
[c] Components
On an R600, DA is overkill (there are probably better areas to spend your pennies). If the bike was new, make sure your cables have been adjusted after they stretch out a bit. If you really need to change the front, 105 or Ultegra would do just fine.
Best.

If you can feel a difference in a front derailleur, I would be amazed. If you blindfolded most people and asked them to shift an Alivio front derailleur and then a XT front derailleur on the same bike no one would know the difference.

Actually I would notice the difference between say Alivio and XTR with differential plates but probably not Alivio and LX. I do notice a difference between the LX on my wife's MTB and the XTR with differential plates on my MTB... especially under load.

So back to the original topic...

I saw on JensonUSA that a Shimano 105 FD is $26 and a Shimano Ultegra FD is $25 (yes... Ultegra going for less than 105 in this case). However, Performance has 105 FDs for around $20-$22. A Dura-Ace (7700-series) is $60. I think the choice would be obvious if it were me.

Remember the 3 areas of importance (where you want to spend your $) are:
[a] Frame/Fork
[b] Wheelset
[c] Components
On an R600, DA is overkill (there are probably better areas to spend your pennies). If the bike was new, make sure your cables have been adjusted after they stretch out a bit. If you really need to change the front, 105 or Ultegra would do just fine.
Best.

I got full Ultegra on my bike and I love it. I would be fine with 105 also though.

Personally I would go with the Ultegra. This is based primarily on price difference. However, I am not going to tell you that your bike is not worthy of Dura Ace. The R600 is a CAAD 5 frame. This frame was TDF worthy in 2000, so I say if you want to go full Dura Ace have at it. My bike came with the Ultegra, 105, Tiagra mix as well. I don't like having the Tiagra front on there just out of pure vanity, but when it is tuned well if performs well.

What's wrong with putting Dura Ace on a R600? That's a CAAD5 frame right, I think that's a pretty nice frame and worthy of upgrading to Dura Ace if that's what you want to do. If I'm not mistaken, there's been a good number of races won on folks riding CAAD5. As far as if it's worth it, that depends on what you want to do, I doubt you could really tell much difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace but if it makes you happy, why not.

Personally I would go with the Ultegra. This is based primarily on price difference. However, I am not going to tell you that your bike is not worthy of Dura Ace. The R600 is a CAAD 5 frame. This frame was TDF worthy in 2000, so I say if you want to go full Dura Ace have at it. My bike came with the Ultegra, 105, Tiagra mix as well. I don't like having the Tiagra front on there just out of pure vanity, but when it is tuned well if performs well.

I was gonna say the same thing. Cannondale frames are damn good, and all of the racing frame designs have been raced by pros. You dont really get that with other companies. Go ahead and put dura-ace on if you can afford it. my lbs guy says that ultegra lasts longer for just about every part though.

Cannondale frames are damn good, and all of the racing frame designs have been raced by pros. You dont really get that with other companies.

C'dales are not the only bikes in the pro peloton, are they?

My .02, I found the Ultegra front derailler was far smoother than my 105. Both were new. I would guess the bushings are slightly better. Spend a bit more and get the Ultegra.

no, but cannondale doesn't make frames specifically to be low end. the lower end bikes were top end at one time. see what I'm saying? I suppose that was unclear. and I should have said, "you dont get that with a lot of other companies"

I have both D/A and Ultegra on my bikes. On the front only get the Ultegra as this will work fine.
As to Ultegra lasting longer or a long as DA, no way. I went thruogh 3 ultegra rears in 1 year. I was riding a lot and eating rears up every 4 - 6 mo's :( I upgraded to DA and my original 8 spd DA STI levers and rear are still on my paramount. That was in 91.

Why do people buy a new bike, then not be happy and start upgrading so fast. Wait a bit and get a better bike to start with.

I agree with John M! In my experience Shimano Dura-Ace lasts longer than Ultegra.

:eek:

Ed

I just bought a 2003 Cannondale R600 double and it came with the Tiagra front der. I'm not terribly pleased with it's shifting (not as smooth as I'd like). I'm planning on upgrading ASAP, just wondering of it's worth twice the price for the Dura-Ace. Any thoughts?

If you bought it new, then it probably needs some fine tuning. In fact, the entire drive train probably needs some fine tuning. Most LBS' offer free adjustments on new bikes. Have them check the wheels, too, to make sure none of the spokes have worked loose.

Wait until it is fine tuned, then see if you still want to spend the money to upgrade. If you do decide, my personal opinion is Ultrega. For derailleurs, the difference between a 9 spd Ultrega and a 9 spd Dura-Ace is a few measly grams and, perhaps, an extra year of longevity, if you are lucky and not worth the extra money.

Actually I would notice the difference between say Alivio and XTR with differential plates but probably not Alivio and LX. I do notice a difference between the LX on my wife's MTB and the XTR with differential plates on my MTB... especially under load.


Which is why I didn't used XTR in my example. The difference on my LX and XTR front der. is nearly impercetible though... all a front derailleur does is mash the chain in one direction or another... theres nothing "precision" about a front der! :o

I think Resident nailed it. The front der is probably the hardest to adjust *right*, and least likely to provide really noticeable improvement with an upgrade. Spend some time fine tuning the adjustment and save your money for something else.

I would not go beyond 105 for the front derailleur because it's the least likely used shift. If you already have 105 on the rear than maybe it just needs an adjustment. I know plenty of folks that race on that stuff without complaints. But if you must upgrade the rear go no further than Ultrega, you will get more bang for the dollar than you would with Dura Ace.

I've used an RX100 front derailer on an mostly Ultegra drivetrain (cranks, rear der, etc.) and it shifted perfectly because it was adjusted correctly. The Tiagra front der. should work fine; take it back to the shop to have it adjusted. I concur with resident's recommendation about not shifting the front chainrings under load too.

I have both D/A and Ultegra on my bikes. On the front only get the Ultegra as this will work fine.
As to Ultegra lasting longer or a long as DA, no way. I went thruogh 3 ultegra rears in 1 year. I was riding a lot and eating rears up every 4 - 6 mo's :( I upgraded to DA and my original 8 spd DA STI levers and rear are still on my paramount. That was in 91.

WOW. My experience has not been anything like that. I sort of wore out one Shimano 105 derailler but that took 45,000 miles and it still shifted ok, it was just getting sloppy when I replaced it with another 105 derailler which now has 12,000+ miles on it. I find it amazing that you wore out 3 rear ultegra deraillers in one year.

As for wear, I have heard different things about component life going from 105 to Dura Ace. Some people think Dura Ace lasts longer (I guess because it is more expensive and thus higher quality) and other people think 105 last longer (because it is cheaper and has more material and thus can wear longer). But I do not know of anyone who has actually devised a test to determine whether 105, ultegra or Dura Ace lasts longer. Be that as it may, with my experience with Shimano 105, the components last quite a long time ranging from 20,000 miles to 60,000 miles +. I think most cyclists would never wear out the stuff whether they were using 105, ultegra or dura ace.

Me want to share my .02c worth with my experience. I bought a "new" 03 R600, standard components were: Cannondale crank/BB-cannondale brakes, tiagra front, 105 rear. LBS advised the first component to upgrade would be the brakes to Ultegra. Well I got hooked & ended up getting the complete groupset (except shifters) of ebay - all components were boxed & new.
I found the biggest improvement was changing to Ultegra crank/BB, this was by far the best bang for buck. Major difference, & I would say that if you had to do one thing, this would be it. Much smoother, lighter and better shifting between sml&lg. Even if you kept the tiagra shifter, you will find the shifting up front much quicker & smoother.
Overall, I am very happy with the upgrades. I like the 105/sti shifters so they stay. I know exactly where you are coming from as my first reaction when I got the bike was to ditch the tiagra front derailleur as the shifts were clunky, slow & unsatisfying. With the crank/bb upgrade you get more positive shifting, as well as a MUCH smoother rotation, the stock bb seemed like it had a shot bearing in comparison.

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