Vehicular Cycling (VC) - John Allen rides a NYC cycle track

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5372176073453078136

man! john must get PEEVED when he's driving a car and bicyclists are in front of him slowing him down.

I'm not excusing the clueless pedestrians. normally american car traffic serves to keep BOTH bicycles and pedestrians off the streets.....

anyone read "how the streets were made safe for cars?" http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/how-the-streets-were-made-safe-for-cars/




peehaps a cyclists so hell bent for speed should have been with the motor vehicle traffic. New York doesn't have a mandatory sidepath law does it?

Some of my thinking is there is a problem at least with this design putting a space for cyclists down the middle of a pedestrian space. Could this also be related to over stressing a buffered space for cyclists? Wouldn't a bike lane next to car traffic work just as well if not better and allow for easier transition between vehicular/pedestrian style cycling?

yes, the bikelane needs to be bigger and perhaps more well designed (put the ped sitting zone next to the curb, put much wider cycletrack with partial separations like bollards, hatching, etc next to vehicle lanes) there needs to be more cyclists, there needs to be more order on NYC streets ;)

man! john must get PEEVED when he's driving a car and bicyclists are in front of him slowing him down.

I'm not excusing the clueless pedestrians. normally american car traffic serves to keep BOTH bicycles and pedestrians off the streets.....

anyone read "how the streets were made safe for cars?" http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/how-the-streets-were-made-safe-for-cars/




peehaps a cyclists so hell bent for speed should have been with the motor vehicle traffic. New York doesn't have a mandatory sidepath law does it?

Hell bent for speed = greater than a walking pace?

But anyway, this video could just be an intentional illustration of why it doesn't make sense to ride a bicycle in that particular cycle track.

my own hyperbolic humor, sorry. but johns' commentary merited it, he sounded at times safety nannyish, angry at pedestrians, overly cautious and hyperbolic in its own right IMO.

funny at the end, how he wound up not exercising right of way for a couple of minutes, misses a clear opportunity to go, then that guy on the folder SKOOLS john on how to ride a congested intersection in NYC.

as streetscapes in america are fluid in design, i suspect 20 years from now that streetscape will be significantly different than it is today. NYC isn't scared to 'reclaim the streets' from motor vehicle traffic.

john interests lie in damnifying americas' still being developed 21st century cycletracks with a hidden agenda (ride like a CAR!) that unfortunately holds bicyclist modal share to sub 1 percent in this country.

john interests lie in damnifying americas' still being developed 21st century cycletracks with a hidden agenda (ride like a CAR!) that unfortunately holds bicyclist modal share to sub 1 percent in this country.

Elsewhere John recently wrote about the cycle tracks that he likes in NYC. John is definitely a VC guy and his agenda is pretty far from hidden. From what I gather, he isn't against bike facilities but he does want them to have certain characteristics which I seem to recall you supporting in the past.

The one on Broadway is pretty awful, IMO. Although John should realize that no one gets around NYC following the letter of the law.

So John expects to move at full speed while in a bike lane... I'll bet motorists expect to drive at full speed too.

So why is it that cycling advocates that insist that speed is a big issue for cyclists, have no qualms about delays (however minor) that they may cause to motorists... who also feel that need for speed?

As far as bike lane courtesy... perhaps John should try employing a bell.

thanks for the link. As someone who rides in Manhattan frequently I found this video kind of funny and though I expected to feel less empathy for John Allen I actually understand his frustration and think to some degree it's warranted.

It looks to me like this design is not working- I haven't ridden this stretch of bike lane- so I cannot attest first hand but yes, it obviously has problems. But obviously, as evidenced by the last intersection, so do the streets of NYC aside from the bike lanes.

It's not necessarily the bike lane but the ignorant pedestrians who see an empty space and simply fill it. The tables etc seem to be an attractive nuisance at best- not like you'd use them mid-December but the pedestrian traffic will be only worse once the warm weather kicks in rendering the bike lane pretty useless at that point.

When next I'm in NY I'll make a point of riding this and bring my camera. It does seem the bike lane placement is begging for some pretty serious pedestrian/bicycle conflicts and collisions.

thanks for the link. As someone who rides in Manhattan frequently I found this video kind of funny and though I expected to feel less empathy for John Allen I actually understand his frustration and think to some degree it's warranted.

It looks to me like this design is not working- I haven't ridden this stretch of bike lane- so I cannot attest first hand but yes, it obviously has problems. But obviously, as evidenced by the last intersection, so do the streets of NYC aside from the bike lanes.

It's not necessarily the bike lane but the ignorant pedestrians who see an empty space and simply fill it. The tables etc seem to be an attractive nuisance at best- not like you'd use them mid-December but the pedestrian traffic will be only worse once the warm weather kicks in rendering the bike lane pretty useless at that point.

When next I'm in NY I'll make a point of riding this and bring my camera. It does seem the bike lane placement is begging for some pretty serious pedestrian/bicycle conflicts and collisions.

Exactly... is it really a BL problem, or are pedestrians just overwhelming there?

with a street redesign, that cycletrack would be more useful for bicyclists and walked in by less peds.

flip-flop the seating and the cycletrack, keep bollards and hatching to separate the cycletrack from the vehicle traffic.

thoughtful deployment of cycletracks in urban areas in the US will likely take several decades to get dialed in to greatest effectiveness.

Exactly... is it really a BL problem, or are pedestrians just overwhelming there?

In designing the facility one would imagine it would make sense to take into account the mindset of the NYC pedestrian. So it's a kind of a chicken before the egg thing.

Long before there were any bike lanes in NYC if I rode through the garment district I might very well encounter a rack full of clothes rolling down the middle of the street and somewhere in the midst of them a man pushing that rack. In Chinatown it could be a pushcart with 1/2 ton of imported goods being transported in the middle of the street. In the meatpacking district whole lambs hanging from a rack rolling down the road. On the upper West Side yuppie moms and dads with kids in strollers. It's NYC it can be a free for all. NYC is basically managed chaos.

It seems this design does less to manage the chaos than contribute to it. Again, I haven't ridden it first hand and John Allen may very well be doing a touch of the theatrical as he rolls down Broadway. He's not a big fan of most infrastructure and he knows how to play to his demographic- there's a none too subtle sarcasm to the whole affair. He's a capable rider and knows how to ride assertively, which he doesn't particularly do in this video. It was interesting to see the guy at the end of the clip on the folding bike come into the intersection and basically take command of the intersection, cross and move through. I was so hoping he would continue in the bike lane and John would be forced to follow him as the other cyclist, perhaps, moved more deftly and assertively, through the same conditions.

That was very funny!

John Allen getting SKOOLED by a guy on a folder taking control of the intersection.

his artifice crumbles. lame the obstructionists continue their fight to quell (I've been trying to use r e t a r d but it gets censored despite it being a proper word) rider share with their hyperbole against design of public streetscapes with all members of the public in mind.

did anyone read how the streets were made safe for cars?

http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/how-the-streets-were-made-safe-for-cars/


autocentric bicycling behaviors do not have to be the norm in america. theres' no sound reason to perpetuate autocentric road design to be the continued status quo in the USA.

its' just a brief moment in american roadscape history. with the potential of coming restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions, i suspect to see cars getting restricted similar to how they did during the oil shortages of the 70's or just prior to the Beijing olympics- no gas for some cars on some days by license plate (70's USA) and banning days motorists could drive by plate number (beijing)

So John expects to move at full speed while in a bike lane... I'll bet motorists expect to drive at full speed too.

I think that is a mis-interpretation. He expects to move as fast as if he were in a regular travel lane. Whether that is "full-speed" is another issue.


It looks to me like this design is not working- I haven't ridden this stretch of bike lane- so I cannot attest first hand but yes, it obviously has problems. But obviously, as evidenced by the last intersection, so do the streets of NYC aside from the bike lanes.

It's not necessarily the bike lane but the ignorant pedestrians who see an empty space and simply fill it. The tables etc seem to be an attractive nuisance at best- not like you'd use them mid-December but the pedestrian traffic will be only worse once the warm weather kicks in rendering the bike lane pretty useless at that point.

We all know John is hamming it up to demonstrate a point. Personally, I think it makes the exercise somewhat disingenuous, but I understand the method for presenting an argument.

Not that it is important, but "ignorant" doesn't strike me as the right word for describing the pedestrians.


Exactly... is it really a BL problem, or are pedestrians just overwhelming there?

I don't think you can disentangle the two in any meaningful way. Pedestrians tend to behave in a certain manner. While such behavior is not fixed in perpetuity, I would argue that it is very hard to change people's inclinations given the crowded conditions in Manhattan and Broadway in general. In the end, you have a bike lane design that makes pedestrian traffic problematic.


It seems this design does less to manage the chaos than contribute to it. Again, I haven't ridden it first hand and John Allen may very well be doing a touch of the theatrical as he rolls down Broadway. He's not a big fan of most infrastructure and he knows how to play to his demographic- there's a none too subtle sarcasm to the whole affair. He's a capable rider and knows how to ride assertively, which he doesn't particularly do in this video. It was interesting to see the guy at the end of the clip on the folding bike come into the intersection and basically take command of the intersection, cross and move through. I was so hoping he would continue in the bike lane and John would be forced to follow him as the other cyclist, perhaps, moved more deftly and assertively, through the same conditions.

I agree with the highlighted statement.

In some sense, it allows a sidewalk cyclist and pedestrians move faster than otherwise. Assuming that there is no mandatory sidepath law -- I am fairly certain this is the case, but I no longer live in NYC nor visit on a regular basis -- cyclists can still ride in the travel lane; although I suspect that riding there will subject the cyclist to more aggression than without the bike lane. But moving around NYC on the streets is generally all about aggression anyway. :lol:

That bike lane during the holiday season and warm weather will be a nightmare.

hyperbole and artifice against human-scaled streetscapes.

The people who support a cycle track in Portland really need to watch this video to observe the consequences of such a monumentally stupid idea.

In designing the facility one would imagine it would make sense to take into account the mindset of the NYC pedestrian. So it's a kind of a chicken before the egg thing.

Long before there were any bike lanes in NYC if I rode through the garment district I might very well encounter a rack full of clothes rolling down the middle of the street and somewhere in the midst of them a man pushing that rack. In Chinatown it could be a pushcart with 1/2 ton of imported goods being transported in the middle of the street. In the meatpacking district whole lambs hanging from a rack rolling down the road. On the upper West Side yuppie moms and dads with kids in strollers. It's NYC it can be a free for all. NYC is basically managed chaos.

It seems this design does less to manage the chaos than contribute to it. Again, I haven't ridden it first hand and John Allen may very well be doing a touch of the theatrical as he rolls down Broadway. He's not a big fan of most infrastructure and he knows how to play to his demographic- there's a none too subtle sarcasm to the whole affair. He's a capable rider and knows how to ride assertively, which he doesn't particularly do in this video. It was interesting to see the guy at the end of the clip on the folding bike come into the intersection and basically take command of the intersection, cross and move through. I was so hoping he would continue in the bike lane and John would be forced to follow him as the other cyclist, perhaps, moved more deftly and assertively, through the same conditions.

Yeah, I thought nearly the same thing about the guy at the end of the video... that here was someone that knew how to use the system vice complain about it.

Along the same lines, I think John would have had to deal with a bunch of pedestrians even if he were riding in the travel lanes... but of course we never get that view.

I think that is a mis-interpretation. He expects to move as fast as if he were in a regular travel lane. Whether that is "full-speed" is another issue.



Exactly... what is "full-speed" when one is now dealing with slow moving cars and trucks and still more pedestrians.

However, the point I want to make is that those strictly vehicular cyclists that often tout "the speed of riding in the travel lanes" fail to realize that while they are traveling at "full-speed" they are acting as the "pedestrians" to the motorists that are also trying to move at their potential "full-speed."

Also any vehicular cyclist that points to the advantage of cycling for moving through mixed traffic is doing so due to the fact that cyclists are so rare. If 20-30% of those pedestrians were in the travel lanes riding bikes... "full-speed" would be about what is experienced in Copenhagen and China.

Racing through the streets like a messenger only works when you are part of a tiny minority... as cyclists in America are.

hyperbole and artifice against human-scaled streetscapes.

Not sure what this is in response to but I think the issue is the order: ped-bike-ped-car space you can have a human scale streetscape that works a bit better with ped-bike-car space. Here is Baltimore's protected bike lane by the Inner Harbor (pic taken from the pedestrian space.)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6jiXmI8ipT8/SOk1WZkfphI/AAAAAAAAAZE/YAKvIWesy7s/s800/IMG_1911.JPG

I will also mention that if that was me riding in that video I would be frustrated with pedestrians changing lanes without looking. It does not bother me having to slow to pass them safely.

Ha. That video is too funny. It should be titled, "Man goes to New York City and finds people."

Hold the presses! There's traffic in New York. Both pedestrian and vehicular. And, to an outsider, it seems disorganized.

I doubt the problems Allen encountered had much to do with paint on the pavement, which is about as irrelevant in New York as it is anywhere else. I don't interpret that video as an inditement of "cycle tracks."

I'd like to know how not having lines painted on the pavement would make things better. Would that magically make the pedestrians disappear? And the cross traffic?

Actually, the design, street furniture and all might be better than it seems at first glace (even if John Allen is right that it makes it hard to see short pedestrians like dogs hopefully on leashes).

John Allen's seeming frustration at what seems to be normal human behavior is amusing. A cop walking in a bike lane seems pretty normal. The mystery was why a bicyclist seemed so set on riding between the lines -- must be an out-of-towner.

It's funny to hear Allen lecturing pedestrians. If I had to bet whether it was Allen or the pedestrians who knew what they were doing, I'd put my money on the pedestrians.

Some of the frustration and lecturing may be justified but, mostly, it's just futile.

And is John Allen the first bicyclist ever to stop at some of those stop lines? That cracked me up, as did the schooling Allen got at the end there. Do you think that guy was as frustrated as Allen seemed to be? Too bad the teacher turned off and left Allen to get through the next intersection without blocking.

In John Allen's defense, he had a live mike -- which tends to catch off-the-wall comments that might make some people laugh. And the teacher was familiar with the area and Allen wasn't.

Allen's always struck me as fair-minded and having a good deal of common sense, willing to break with dogma. Even that video doesn't change that. I disagree with him on some things but some of the things he's written are quite good and I find myself agreeing with him as often as not.

The issue at hand however is that John Allen and his peer John Forester both try riding in cycle tracks, find frustration, and then declare cycle tracks ineffective.

Locals however, as shown in the video, don't seem to have problems. So should the indictment of "cycle tracks" by frustrated vehicularists be the last word? That is roughly akin to saying that motorists are right and cyclists should never ride on the road... as it might "frustrate" someone. :rolleyes:

The issue at hand however is that John Allen and his peer John Forester both try riding in cycle tracks, find frustration, and then declare cycle tracks ineffective.

Locals however, as shown in the video, don't seem to have problems. So should the indictment of "cycle tracks" by frustrated vehicularists be the last word? That is roughly akin to saying that motorists are right and cyclists should never ride on the road... as it might "frustrate" someone. :rolleyes:

If the video is supposed to be proof that "cycle tracks" suck then it's pretty lame. What happens on the video and, more importantly, why it happens can be interpreted in a number of different ways.

But I don't think that's what it is. I take John Allen's video at face value, as an attempt to document a ride and record what happens without a preconcieved idea of what he wants to prove.

John Forester is in contrast surely primarily a propagandist but I have more respect for John Allen than to lump him with JF and think that Allen's video is some kind of remake of the infamous self-test that helped earn John Forester his well-deserved reputation for intellectual dishonesty, self-delusion and lunacy.

John Allen has more intellectual honesty than that. Surely. Perhaps he engaged in a little embellishment, exaggerating his frustration for effect-- I don't know-- but I have no reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt. There's nothing in the video that betrays a propaganda motive (although there is some editorializing).

For all his complaining, how much was Allen really slowed down? How many seconds did he lose in that ten minute video? Compared to what? Seriously. Doesn't Allen display exactly the same "I own the road, get out of my way, you're slowing me down" kind of attitude that bicyclists are so critical of in motorists?

It's absurd. At one point Allen yells at a pedestrian for being in the bike lane (presumably HIS bike lane) and just a few minutes later ridcules motorists for honking at pedestrians who are in the road. Oh, well, I guess consistancy is too much to ask for.

But I don't read too much into the video. A guy rode a bicycle in New York. There's no reason that ride is more important or instructive than any number of other bicycle rides in New York. The main value of that video for me is the entertainment value. I got a couple of good laughs.

All those objects and people in the way.. I'd think a speed walker's pace would be in excess of a cyclists', since pedestarians are more mobile.

Although I was also amused at the guy's attempt to lecture pedestrians, I think the video was a pretty good illustration of why cycle tracks do not work in NYC. That track is a sidewalk extension -- it was flooded with pedestrians and very few bikes. I know there are a ton of cyclists in Manhattan, so I suspect that they were on the street, finding it a faster mode of conveyance.

From the videos that I have seen in Amsterdam, pedestrians do not walk on the cycle tracks. Not that they wouldn't be able to -- they simply don't do it. I imagine it's just a cultural difference. Amsterdam is crowded too.

Although I was also amused at the guy's attempt to lecture pedestrians, I think the video was a pretty good illustration of why cycle tracks do not work in NYC. That track is a sidewalk extension -- it was flooded with pedestrians and very few bikes. I know there are a ton of cyclists in Manhattan, so I suspect that they were on the street, finding it a faster mode of conveyance.

From the videos that I have seen in Amsterdam, pedestrians do not walk on the cycle tracks. Not that they wouldn't be able to -- they simply don't do it. I imagine it's just a cultural difference. Amsterdam is crowded too.

So the real issue is not the cycle track, it is the undiciplined pedestrians.

So the real issue is not the cycle track, it is the undiciplined pedestrians.

I don't suspect anybody will have much luck disciplining the pedestrians of NYC :bang:

I think any successful bike infrastructure needs to adapt itself to the culture of a place, rather than counting upon radically transforming it. It might transform it to some extent, but not to the point of turning New Yorkers into Amsterdamers.

I think that traffic-calmed bike boulevards are the best measure for North American cities and suburbs.

Ha. That video is too funny. It should be titled, "Man goes to New York City and finds people."
...
Allen's always struck me as fair-minded and having a good deal of common sense, willing to break with dogma. Even that video doesn't change that. I disagree with him on some things but some of the things he's written are quite good and I find myself agreeing with him as often as not.

If I took a video of the first time I drove my car in NYC it would be almost exactly the same sort of thing shown in this video. Saying "Sheesh" at all the traffic, saying "Hey watch out!" as any and all sorts of traffic cuts across my path.


The issue at hand however is that John Allen and his peer John Forester both try riding in cycle tracks, find frustration, and then declare cycle tracks ineffective.

John Allen unlike Forester has not made a career out of being anti-bike facility. We really don't know John Allen's conclusion on this, it is a simple document of his ride and that is that. From this one could come up with all bike facilities are bad or one could say riding a bike in NYC stinks no mater what they do. These types of conclusions are of our own making and not of John Allen.


So the real issue is not the cycle track, it is the undiciplined pedestrians.

:thumb: Hear, Hear! Pedestrians walk in a vehicular manner, signal before making a turn... and where a helmet for your safety. :p

John Allen unlike Forester has not made a career out of being anti-bike facility. We really don't know John Allen's conclusion on this, it is a simple document of his ride and that is that. From this one could come up with all bike facilities are bad or one could say riding a bike in NYC stinks no mater what they do. These types of conclusions are of our own making and not of John Allen.



Except for the unbridled commentary regarding the "condition" of the situation... which the local quickly makes folly of by crossing the street near the end of the video.
(while John continues to whine... )

Right... no "agenda" on John Allen's part what so ever... :rolleyes:

Although I was also amused at the guy's attempt to lecture pedestrians, I think the video was a pretty good illustration of why cycle tracks do not work in NYC. That track is a sidewalk extension -- it was flooded with pedestrians and very few bikes. I know there are a ton of cyclists in Manhattan, so I suspect that they were on the street, finding it a faster mode of conveyance.

From the videos that I have seen in Amsterdam, pedestrians do not walk on the cycle tracks.

incorrect.


Not that they wouldn't be able to -- they simply don't do it.

incorrect.


I imagine it's just a cultural difference.

tell that to the countless tourists.


Amsterdam is crowded too.

and?

Well, if they walk on them in Amsterdam too, all the more reason to ditch the idea.

Except for the unbridled commentary regarding the "condition" of the situation... which the local quickly makes folly of by crossing the street near the end of the video.
(while John continues to whine... )

Right... no "agenda" on John Allen's part what so ever... :rolleyes:

I think that the commentary and even waiting until the intersection is clear has a point from the perspective of someone trying to follow the letter of the law (statutory law). But it does ignore the "common law" interpretation of the everyman.

No agenda is inaccurate, IMO. However, his agenda has a long history and is out there for all to see. In the end, is it over-the-top at a few places and kind of whiney. Yes. But the body of his comments during the video seem pretty reasonable. That is, I can see what he is criticizing and why, such that the viewer can come to a relatively objective conclusion. A lot of other videos fail this criterion.

1) I'd feel really silly sitting at a red light with pedestrians pouring through the crosswalk not too far away.
2) I'd feel really silly sitting at a green light. Really, really silly.
3) Does the guy have a bell?
4) The guy seemingly has never seen a traffic cop before, and the fact that no cars pulled up to him and that the one car nearly hit him suggests that he "ran" the cop.

Man, I thought Cambridge (MA) pedestrians were the worst.

Fascinating. I've never seen a city so crowded in all ways. I can see why fixies have a niche out in the traffic in this environment and why the competition to bike messengers is not the cars but email. I can see why red lights aren't much respected by cyclists in the traffic lanes. I can also see why in the cyclepath environment, upright bikes are favored over road bikes, where you can set a foot down without much difficulty and without getting out of your saddle. And I can see why rearview mirrors in this environment are absolutely useless.

Ever thought that the option between bike lanes and no bike lanes is a bit of a false dilemma in this environment? Obviously "strict" vehicular cycling gets you nowhere fast unless you madly split lanes (not the occasional split lane; I mean, lane splitting full time as a primary means of getting around). And bike lanes of the type that you see on the west coast are just out. No space and they won't be respected. This cycle track as shown in the vid is basically a shared bike/pedestrian space (not lane), and it will be regardless of where you put that space - peds will just suck up what's there. If you put it next to the cars, the cars would suck up the space if the pedestrians don't get there first. So the third and fourth options distinct from bike lanes and vehicular cycling are 3) shared bike/ped space, and 4) filter through congested traffic. Very distinct from both the California style vehicular cycling and suburban bike lane implementation, requiring a fairly distinct set of bike handling skills in both cases, separate from suburban cycling.

Dividing traffic cycling up three or four different ways might be a better way of framing the traffic cycling discussions. Vehicular cycling and bike lane riding in the suburban environment require a certain set of common techniques. Cyclepath cycling in a very dense city environment is different from that, and so is traffic cycling in the very dense city environment. Three different ways of getting around, depending on environment and bike handling skill and fitness. It makes sense to have a cyclepath (basically a shared bike/ped space) in a dense city like NYC for those cyclists who have more of a pedestrian mindset. For those cyclists who want to get around faster, they must take to the traffic lane and ride like a prototypical bike messenger. And then for the suburbs, a whole different set of skills must be acquired, revolving around managing the speed differential between bike and car and the presence or absence of extra space on the road.

There really doesn't have to be a universal truism agreeing upon the "safest" way to bike in traffic.

If I took a video of the first time I drove my car in NYC it would be almost exactly the same sort of thing shown in this video. Saying "Sheesh" at all the traffic, saying "Hey watch out!" as any and all sorts of traffic cuts across my path.
The first time I went to New York City, I experienced culture shock for which I was not entirely prepared, and developed an understanding of the word "traffic" that exceeded my wildest imagination. Before that time, I had thought that Chicago had traffic. Boy, was I wrong. LOL

on second viewing of this video I tend to think John Allen is doing a bit of "play acting" here. He's adopting the persona of what he may perceive as the "average" rider. One who attempts to follow the "rules of the road/bike lane" and expect others to do the same. It's a way of exposing flaws to the infrastructure but a bit disingenuous especially since he got effectively "caught in the lie" by the assertive cyclist who passes him at the intersection.

NYC requires a kind of free-form improvisational style on the part of the cyclist. The streets may be laid out in a grid but too much linear thinking may not be the best approach to safely riding there- bike lanes or not.

they might as well make that space into a wider sidewalk. Waste of space on a such a crowded place in my opinion.

It's a moot point now.

FYI, Broadway has become Pedestrian ONLY, and although the green strip with the bicycle icons are still there, there are signs up saying "WALK BIKE".

There really doesn't have to be a universal truism agreeing upon the "safest" way to bike in traffic.

Actually it is more like "There really doesn't have to be a universal truism agreeing upon the "safest" way to bike in a city."



But none the less, I am sure that some will come along and tell us that vehicular cycling is the "safest" way to bike in traffic, in a city.

That video was painful to watch. Broadway is now a full pedestrian zone, and it's not a great place to ride b/c of it. However, the stretches where there are cars have been significantly improved for cyclists.

The video really only illustrates how important it is to figure out the actual "rules" of riding in any given environment. If everyone in a city respects dedicated lanes, then when you walk through or hop on a bike, you probably will too.

John actually violated several givens to those of us here in NYC. One is to ignore red lights at intersections when it's safe to do so. This actually improves traffic flow by decreasing the conflicts between turning cars, pedestrians and bicycles. There are so many pedestrians here that it's expected they will jaywalk whenever possible; if they don't, you get situations like you used to have in Times Square, where they'd be overflowing onto the streets and risking being hit by car traffic.

The situation here has improved remarkably for cyclists. All the newest bike lanes are being revised and worked on; one thing they've noticeably improved is putting the lanes on the left sides of traffic, thus avoiding the dangers of buses and trucks, increasing their visibility, and training cyclists to stay to the left. Car traffic here is so crowded and moves so slowly that it's almost always better to be on the left on one-way streets. In fact, bicycles often move faster than automobile traffic.

VC approaches or non-VC approaches may work, but one thing that seems to arise from this conversation and the video is that it's important for cyclists to be versed in the local ways of the road just as it's important for city planners to account for all traffic behavior.

Personally, I'm not complaining; the cycling situation here in NYC has improved and continues to improve very quickly. If you come and ride here, though, don't expect that just b/c you ride on a daily basis in some other city, you'll know what to do here: You won't.

The video really only illustrates how important it is to figure out the actual "rules" of riding in any given environment.

I concur.


Personally, I'm not complaining; the cycling situation here in NYC has improved and continues to improve very quickly. If you come and ride here, though, don't expect that just b/c you ride on a daily basis in some other city, you'll know what to do here: You won't.

At least within the US, I never found the cycling "rules" to be that different across geography. Or more specifically, IMO, a little observation will clue most people in on the local standards pretty quickly.

I concur.



At least within the US, I never found the cycling "rules" to be that different across geography. Or more specifically, IMO, a little observation will clue most people in on the local standards pretty quickly.

That's interesting... I have noticed that there are different driving rules in different areas, based on the habits of the locals and the construction of the roads... this is borne out by reports that show varying amounts of road rage in different areas. This is also borne out by terms such as "jersey swoop," and "california stop." Sure in the bigger picture, the overall rules tend to remain the same, but it is the details that can and do get folks into trouble. I believe the same differences also extend to cycling.