"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Vo2 Max Tested

So I had my vo2 max tested after a 100 mile ride, 12 hours of driving, although I will say I had some good sleep and lots of food. Legs were still sore, blew up at 390 watts, wierd.

My result: 4.75 l/min... @ 165 lb that put me at 63.5 l/kg/min. I really think I can do better than that, the tester thought I had some room to go as well, especially if I drop some weight. Good engine, just a lot of weight to haul around.

Anyone else have there's tested recently?

I did mine last year, although it was a "submax" VO2 "assesment". I maxed out at 400W and 66 VO2/kg

I don't remember what I maxed out at, but I hit 70-75ish. I've since dropped about 5lb from what I was then, so it's probably gone up.

V02 threshold is much less trainable than lactic threshold correct? If I remember hearing correctly you can only look to get 2-3% increase in vo2 but 10+% on lactic? If so with a 2-3% lifetime gain it seems the time could be better spent on training LT with the little glucose strip machine

Mine was pathetic, VO2 max was 51.1 ml/kg/min.......VO2 was 3.83 L.

Absolute vo2 max is pretty hard to train, but relative vo2 max is pretty easy to boost if you can lose weight. I'm getting lactate threshold testing done in a few weeks...

Mine was done about a month ago, 55 ml/kg/min. I maxed out at 410watts.

74.3ml/kg/min

not exactly a useful test though. I just did it a couple times to help out a buddy doing some exercise science research

74.3ml/kg/min

not exactly a useful test though. I just did it a couple times to help out a buddy doing some exercise science research

aside from bragging, I cant think of a single reason that these tests would be useful ...

^^^ That's why I'm also doing before and after 10mi time trials, and several blood lactate tests as part of the study. Your own personal vo2 would be a good indication of aerobic improvement, but then again, so would wattage.

There is a thread on the wattage forum to predict VO2 max from 5m wattage. Assuming you could go the other way, and since VO2 max is not really trainable, I would think knowing your actual VO2 max could tell you your theoretical best 5m power, no?

I find the VO2 protocol interesting. Mine (and I think most) have you complete one minute at each interval. But it takes upwards of 60 seconds for your HR (and other systems) to completely adjust to that level. So by the time you adjust, you go on to the next level.

I've seen some tests down with 2-minute cycles. Not sure of the science behind that or if the results compare otherwise.

MD. The only benefit I got from my was properly setting my zone 2 and 3 heart rates. Previously I've been riding at way too low during base and really not getting any benefit from it. I had mine tested at the end of last season and used those levels. I dropped 10lbs in 2 months and had my best early season ever.

Correlation? Maybe...

There is a thread on the wattage forum to predict VO2 max from 5m wattage. Assuming you could go the other way, and since VO2 max is not really trainable, I would think knowing your actual VO2 max could tell you your theoretical best 5m power, no?

Greg LeMond seems to think so.

There is a thread on the wattage forum to predict VO2 max from 5m wattage. Assuming you could go the other way, and since VO2 max is not really trainable, I would think knowing your actual VO2 max could tell you your theoretical best 5m power, no?

Where is this chart? Got a link?

My best 5' is ~390 watts. So 390 watts / 4.75 L/min = 82.1 W/L/min. ?

Where is this chart? Got a link?

Well, it wasn't a chart, it was on the wattage group (http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/79083632d85f7161#).

The forumula was VO2 max= 1.8*((P5min*6.12/Kg)+3.5)+3.5

Although comments from Coggan in the thread indicate that one of the +3.5 terms is extraneous.


Probably from knowing that:

1) 1 W = 6.12 kgm/min


2) resting VO2 is ~3.5 mL/min/kg


3) the slope of the VO2 (measured in L/min):power (measured in kgm/
min) relationship is ~2.


The only additional assumption required is that 5 min power is 2/1.8 x
100% = 11.1% higher than power at VO2max (adding 3.5 mL/min/kg twice
seems to be a mistake).


As for the accuracy of the predicted VO2max, it would be +/- ~10%...

Andy Coggan




> So Andy, is the proper estimation formula to add the 3.5 mL/min/kg
> before or after multiplying by 1.8?

After.

Rule of thumb calculation is: VO2 = 12 * PTW + 3.3 where PTW is your power to weight in W/kg at 5 minutes. My tested VO2max is within about 2% of that.

Rule of thumb calculation is: VO2 = 12 * PTW + 3.3 where PTW is your power to weight in W/kg at 5 minutes. My tested VO2max is within about 2% of that.

Yeah, that foumula I posted above corrected comes out pretty close to that (11 instead of 12, 3.5 instead of 3.3)

I find the VO2 protocol interesting. Mine (and I think most) have you complete one minute at each interval. But it takes upwards of 60 seconds for your HR (and other systems) to completely adjust to that level. So by the time you adjust, you go on to the next level.

I've seen some tests down with 2-minute cycles. Not sure of the science behind that or if the results compare otherwise.

MD. The only benefit I got from my was properly setting my zone 2 and 3 heart rates. Previously I've been riding at way too low during base and really not getting any benefit from it. I had mine tested at the end of last season and used those levels. I dropped 10lbs in 2 months and had my best early season ever.

Correlation? Maybe...

Glad it has worked favorably for you.

I used to do these tests, a coach I worked with used them to derive HR training zones. The tests I did were on new leaf or green leaf (cant recall which it is) software systems where I was on a computrainer with a breathing apparatus strapped to my head, and coach turned up the watts every so often. The measurements were fat calories/hr., carb cal/hr. or something like that, and if I recall correctly, the point at which carb cal > fat cal was considered the LTHR, then I had to go to maximal effort for arriving at VO2Max.

These things hurt, alot, and the data was interesting from a gee whiz point of view, but IMO, I think putting on a HR strap and doing a 30 min. TT effort and getting avg. pwr. from the last 20 mins. (or whatever is the friel methodology for obtaining LTHR) and deriving zones from that puts an athlete in a similar place.

The only real objection I have to the vo2max tests is if they cost something. In my experience, the costs arent worth the data obtained because there are more economical ways to arrive at the same place. as always, YMMV.

VO2 max= 1.8*((P5min*6.12/Kg)+3.5)+3.5

That formula gives me a vo2 of 4.3 L/min @ 390 watts, but if I go backwards from the known 4.75 L/min, I get 430 watts. That would be pretty cool.

Maybe its telling you your 5min is under-developed? And just to be sure I imagine getting one of the 3.5s in the wrong spot going backwards would inflate your wattage. Not questioning your math skills, just sayin...

Ha, definitely didn't mess up the math. 28 hours of math in college, engineer by day, simulation / systems modeling / programmer by night, cyclist when I have time. =)

FWIW, mine was off by 25W using a VO2 tested at 200lbs and a P5min tested at 190lbs. There is a strong correlation between the wattage you generate and the weight you generate it at when testing so, when i adjust the weight properly its off by 2.5%

Math is cool...

man I hope that formula is off or my 5 min power is way off....because my VO2 would only be like 33 haha.

The problem is i'm a heavy guy. My max 5 min power right now is 274w at 255lbs. This is just over the course of riding...havent' done any 5 minute tests. I really need to lose some weight!

VO2 max= 1.8*((P5min*6.12/Kg)+3.5)+3.5

That formula gives me a vo2 of 4.3 L/min @ 390 watts, but if I go backwards from the known 4.75 L/min, I get 430 watts. That would be pretty cool.

Didn't you see the part about the extra 3.5 term? It should be VO2 max= 1.8*(P5min*6.12/Kg)+3.5

man I hope that formula is off or my 5 min power is way off....because my VO2 would only be like 33 haha.

The problem is i'm a heavy guy. My max 5 min power right now is 274w at 255lbs. This is just over the course of riding...havent' done any 5 minute tests. I really need to lose some weight!

The thing about VO2max is that like W/kg it's units include weight. Your lung capacity volume won't go down as you lose weight so for someone who is overweight the VO2 will be low.

Interesting. According to my 5 min power of 4.6 w/kg, my Vo2 max would be 58.5. Which is right where I'd expect it to be, completely average. :p

UMD, I took out the extra +3.5 since coggan says it seems to be wrong.

There is a thread on the wattage forum to predict VO2 max from 5m wattage. Assuming you could go the other way, and since VO2 max is not really trainable, I would think knowing your actual VO2 max could tell you your theoretical best 5m power, no?

Who says it's not "trainable"?

Who says it's not "trainable"?

I thought that "they" say that your VO2 max capacity doesn't change more than a few %. Not to say power at VO2 max isn't trainable...

Maybe I misunderstood... not uncommon ;)

I thought that "they" say that your VO2 max capacity doesn't change more than a few %. Not to say power at VO2 max isn't trainable...

Maybe I misunderstood... not uncommon ;)

Well...the misunderstanding may have come in to play in that a person's VO2Max potential is limited by genetics, but that doesn't mean that an individual's current VO2Max is necessarily at that limit. In fact, if they haven't been doing any dedicated VO2Max training, then likely not...and VO2Max can vary fairly significantly depending on the training, or lack thereof.

To quote Doc C from a thread on ST:

Even elite athletes who diligently train year round often experience a ~10% swing in their VO2max from the peak of in-season fitness to the nadir of off-season lack-of-fitness.

for the sake of participation in the virtual #ick measuring contest.
vo2 max: 82
current LT power: 365 watts
current 5 min: 400
current 1 min: 605 watts
current 30 sec:730
current 5 sec: 1510 watts.

for the sake of participation in the virtual #ick measuring contest.
vo2 max: 82
current LT power: 365 watts
current 5 min: 400
current 1 min: 605 watts
current 30 sec:730
current 5 sec: 1510 watts.

With a V02 max of 82 I would think that you 1 min and 30 second powers numbers are low? I mean i'm no elite athlete and I guarantee you that my VO2 max is not 82 and my 1 min power is 488 without even doing a 1 minute test. Is 605 considered a good number for someone with a V02 max of 82? And with a VO2 that high are you pretty successful as a racer? I would imagine so since you'd be in the top range of VO2 max.

With a V02 max of 82 I would think that you 1 min and 30 second powers numbers are low? I mean i'm no elite athlete and I guarantee you that my VO2 max is not 82 and my 1 min power is 488 without even doing a 1 minute test. Is 605 considered a good number for someone with a V02 max of 82? And with a VO2 that high are you pretty successful as a racer? I would imagine so since you'd be in the top range of VO2 max.

Depends on weight. Using the formula I posted before, a 5m power of 400W would be consistent with a VO2 max of 82 if he weighs 56kg.

You are a heavy guy so if you put out the same power and had the same VO2 capacity not scaled for weight your W/kg would be lower and so would your VO2max number.

Of course I am just speculating, as I have no idea how much whtmtnpeddla weighs. 400/56 would certainly be an exceptional 5m power to weight at 7.14 W/kg, and a 5s of 27 W/kg would be off the chart, literally... :D

Coggan had said probably +/- 10% on that formula and it's obviously a little off somewhere but the point stands. If you weighed less your W/kg and VO2 max would be higher...

Depends on weight. Using the formula I posted before, a 5m power of 400W would be consistent with a VO2 max of 82 if he weighs 56kg.

You are a heavy guy so if you put out the same power and had the same VO2 capacity not scaled for weight your W/kg would be lower and so would your VO2max number.

Of course I am just speculating, as I have no idea how much whtmtnpeddla weighs. 400/56 would certainly be an exceptional 5m power to weight at 7.14 W/kg, and a 5s of 27 W/kg would be off the chart, literally... :D

Coggan had said probably +/- 10% on that formula and it's obviously a little off somewhere but the point stands. If you weighed less your W/kg and VO2 max would be higher...

How many guys that weigh 123lbs (56kgs) do you know that have a VO2 of 82 and can put out 365w FTP that aren't elite cyclists? That was what I was getting at. Is he Tom Danielson?

How many guys that weigh 123lbs (56kgs) do you know that have a VO2 of 82 and can put out 365w FTP that aren't elite cyclists? That was what I was getting at. Is he Tom Danielson?

I missed the LT power part. Anyway, I reran the numbers for the forumula with the "10% error" included and it spat out 62kg. Anyway, since we don't know how much he weighs it is all conjecture... I would suspect he is probably heavier and the 1m and 5m powers are underdeveloped like you said.

I missed the LT power part. Anyway, I reran the numbers for the forumula with the "10% error" included and it spat out 62kg. Anyway, since we don't know how much he weighs it is all conjecture... I would suspect he is probably heavier and the 1m and 5m powers are underdeveloped like you said.

correct....i forgot weight, i weigh 70kg.
yes those numbers are under developed....these numbers are prior to doing any real intensity this year....for what its worth i did a 433...5 min tonight.

i have not done any real tests as of recent....but have had some great results already this season. i am currently cat 2 on the road (only need a couple more points to 1......and a cat 1 cycloross.

also to note.....my vo2 max is high, but i have only been racing/training for 12 months and probably have a few more years before i see what im able to really do.

makes sense now....You have WaterRockets type numbers but the 1 min and 5 mins were low comparatively I believe. I think you are pretty close to the same weight as well.

[QUOTE=chrisvu05;8877255]makes sense now....You have WaterRockets type numbers but the 1 min and 5 mins were low comparatively I believe. I think you are pretty close to the same weight as well.[/QUOTE

now you have me wanting to do a 1 min test....scince i have never really done an actual 1 min all out test.
i just got my 1 min # from peak power records saved in files.......wouldn't even know what ride i did it on.
haha i'll do one tomorrow.

There is a thread on the wattage forum to predict VO2 max from 5m wattage. Assuming you could go the other way, and since VO2 max is not really trainable, I would think knowing your actual VO2 max could tell you your theoretical best 5m power, no?

I'm not so sure. One takes weight into account and the other doesn't. I could probably bust a gut to get my 5min power up but since I weigh 250 reasonably muscular lbs my VO2 max will always ridiculous.

[QUOTE=chrisvu05;8877255]makes sense now....You have WaterRockets type numbers but the 1 min and 5 mins were low comparatively I believe. I think you are pretty close to the same weight as well.[/QUOTE

now you have me wanting to do a 1 min test....scince i have never really done an actual 1 min all out test.
i just got my 1 min # from peak power records saved in files.......wouldn't even know what ride i did it on.
haha i'll do one tomorrow.

yeah with numbers like yours I thought the 1 min and 5 minutes seemed low almost as if you had never actually done a test. Especially with a VO2 so high.

actually the last post from WR says his 5 min is around 469w...so your 5 min is close. I want to say his 1 min is 700+ So your numbers add up.....i'd like to see a comparison between you guys numbers and bio stats like weight and VO2

I'm not so sure. One takes weight into account and the other doesn't. I could probably bust a gut to get my 5min power up but since I weigh 250 reasonably muscular lbs my VO2 max will always ridiculous.

They both take weight into account.

actually the last post from WR says his 5 min is around 469w...so your 5 min is close. I want to say his 1 min is 700+ So your numbers add up.....i'd like to see a comparison between you guys numbers and bio stats like weight and VO2

ok so i did a 1 min test tonight for the first time....the result 728 watts.
that kind of test is actually pretty fun....hurts alot but it's short and sweet, i think i can get that number up in the 8's actually im sure of it.....i will try it again soon. so yea you guys where right 600 would have bben a bit low for me.

ok so i did a 1 min test tonight for the first time....the result 728 watts.
that kind of test is actually pretty fun....hurts alot but it's short and sweet, i think i can get that number up in the 8's actually im sure of it.....i will try it again soon. so yea you guys where right 600 would have bben a bit low for me.

makes much more sense and I bet your 30 second number is much higher now too. I'm pretty sure a proper 1 minute test should leave you vomiting at the end.

[ I'm pretty sure a proper 1 minute test should leave you vomiting at the end.[/QUOTE]

haha... i was very close