Triathlon - Yet another swim breathing question...

I'm sure this is an old topic to many, but I keep seeing/reading conflicting or ambiguous things on this topic.

I'm still very much working on my efficiency in the water, and one of the big reasons seems to be my breathing. I don't think it's an endurance issue because if need be I can flip over and rest in backstroke for a bit to catch my breath.

I just can't figure out how to breathe. As I'm picking up the pace I've started breathing every 2 and that seems comfortable, though I'm practicing a better roll to the right so I can breathe left (now I tend toward roll left/breathe right).

What's lacking is any consistency in when/how I exhale. I've tried just holding and exhaling/inhaling above water, which does me in fairly quickly. I've also tried blowing bubbles underwater followed by a bigger exhale as I roll. I've also tried to have my exhalation done when the time comes to roll and inhale. None of them feel particularly comfortable, and within 200m or so I need a lap of backstroke to catch my breath.

I feel like if I just did one thing consistently it would help a lot, but I lack the experience to figure out what my one best thing is. I'll admit also that one of my phobias specific to OWS is that I will have fully exhaled underwater and when it comes time for a breath I'll get kicked/hit with a wave/whatever that then delays my breath.

God, I wish I didn't suck at swimming. :mad: Any thoughts?

Sorry if this sounds a bit too "new age" but you have to find your "zen center" in your stroke. I recommend you go to the pool when you can spend some time "relaxing" with your stroke. Instead of thinking about increasing your speed:thumb:, think about taking relaxing deep breaths and your muscles finding the groove of slipping through the water. Don't compete. Relax.

Most of what I observe in flawed swimming technique is excess tension. As you relax, you will begin to "discover" ways to move more gracefully through the water. When you achieve relaxation, increase your muscular output and you will be amazed how much faster you become.

Namaste.

-the "Swimming Swami":thumb:

NICE. :) :beer:

I have some recovery days coming up, so maybe I'll go meditate at the pool. I've definitely found that sometimes the best way to speed up is to slow down. ;)

I think each person is a little different in their breathing habits. I used to breathe every 4th stroke and my exhale was in the water, just before my head came out to the left. Then I tried every three and even every two. It all depends upon how hard I push myself. All of my exhale is in the water, but I have heard that slows you down. I don't think it could slow me down any more that I already am.

While I'm no swimming expert I think its fairly safe to say that your exhale should be into the water leaving you only having to inhale when your mouth exits the water. From a comfort standpoint, your breathing while swimming should be much like that of when you are running or biking - you shouldn't be holding your breath, you should be breathing at a natural rhythm. For me, I breath on my left every time (I know, I need to work on bilateral breathing) so i exhale half when I pull when my right arm, and the other half as I pull my left arm and turn to breath. By the time I've exhaled my mouth is at the surface and I grab another breath. YMMV...

I do agree with what others have said - if you are still working on your stroke/technique, do not go to the pool with the idea of being fast or doing lots of laps because this is just going to reinforce less efficient habits. Instead go to the pool with the idea of focusing on your technique. There are some great drills out there (total immersion is a good place to start - lots of demos on youtube). Slow everything down and focus on feeling the water against your body as you move through the water - you'll begin to notice whats smoother and what isn't. Also don't do straight freestyle while at the pool - toss in some strokes you are more comfortable with (breast stroke, back crawl, etc) as well as some targeted freestyle drills to keep things in focus.

While I'm sure you have seen this suggestion in many other forums/posts, if you haven't already get your hands on a copy of Total Immersion! If you don't wanna buy it find it at the library. I was a pretty bad swimmer 3 months ago, barely able to swim freestyle much more than a lap without stopping. Since then with drills and practice I have cut my 500 yd time down to about 7:30, which isn't phenomenal but a huge improvement for me. YMMV here too, but it's worth a shot!

Hope that helps a bit!

Are you sure its all breathing technique, and not swimming? As mentioned, perhaps its an efficiency of stroke issue.

Also, how much are you kicking? Kicking uses the biggest muscles in your body, therefore the most oxygen. Try kicking much less, and smaller kicks if you aren't already.

As for breathing, I alternate between every other stroke (same side) and every two strokes (alternating sides). I have been working on alternating sides more, trying to do an extra half-lap each time until I'm completely comfortable with it. I also find the more I exhale under water (breathing out nose and mouth) the bigger, better inhale I can take.

Happy swimming!

While I'm sure you have seen this suggestion in many other forums/posts, if you haven't already get your hands on a copy of Total Immersion!

+1. This piece of advice is invaluable. If I could add, I focus on two particular drills at various points in any workout I do:

Catch-up (see google), and
3 strokes pull - 6 strokes kick - 3 strokes pull (repeat)

I find I derive a large benefit from teaching my body to rotate more, but I feel like breathing is well-exercised in a properly executed catch-up drill (it really makes you think about your breathing).

So I went to the pool and deviated from my scheduled workout. Focused on a couple things:

1. Body position
2. Steady breathing
3. Not kicking
4. The TI teaching that if you want to go faster, move your belly button faster

And it worked. The only kicking I did was the natural movement that came when I turned my body,and my breathing was much easier-- found I could really get the arms moving and not get nearly as short of breath.

I also focused more on breathing, and realized that what I was doing was exhaling partially and trying to pull in a full breath--very uneven. So, with slowing down a bit and just being calm, I was able to steady the breathing quite a bit.

I still suck, but I suck less. :o :)

Thanks for all the advice.

sounds like you are getting the hang of it! now just swim, swim, swim.. and get that muscle memory going so you don't revert back to old bad habits in the heat of the moment :)

Also now's the time to alternate sides - every third stroke. That seems to work well with most people (every 4th is too much and every other is too frequent). Plus you need to see from both sides for open water swims. People often find that's difficult to do after they get lots of learning and experience from breathing only on one sie.

I stay with one side for 1/4 a length & then switch to the other, then back again; etc. I also started looking forward more to see my hands a little and it's been fun watching the water wiz by. I need to slow down though. I've never been good at Zen-like stuff or yoga.

Also now's the time to alternate sides - every third stroke. That seems to work well with most people (every 4th is too much and every other is too frequent). Plus you need to see from both sides for open water swims. People often find that's difficult to do after they get lots of learning and experience from breathing only on one sie.

Yeah, I've been trying to mix it up and am getting a little better with it... for some reason my body still likes to roll left/breathe right better, but I started doing more roll right/breathe left as of late, for that very reason--I need to get good at both sides when there are waves/wakes/currents involved.

I think my ideal breathing would be every three strokes, alternating sides. However, I have a hard time breathing to the right, so I tend to breathe every four strokes and only breathe on the left.

This is problematic once I get into a race situation because A) I'm generally going a bit harder and need to breathe more often than every four strokes, so I wind up breathing every two and B) it's nice to have the option of breathing to the other side to avoid people/waves/sun.

In other words, definitely try to learn alternate breathing, even if you don't always need to breathe every 3 strokes.

I still suck, but I suck less. :o :)



Ah! And there you have it - the beginnings of proper breathing technique (for training, at least). Don't take huge breaths! If you're forcing your upper chest to expand in order to get that very last bit of air in your lungs, you're doing your whole body a great disservice. Take a full, but comfortable breath - like the kind you'd take for an exasperated sigh (ask your significant other to demonstrate).

As far as exhaling goes,



...exhaling partially and trying to pull in a full breath...


this is very close! Underwater, there should be a partial expiration (like you're already doing) and a little *puff* as your mouth exits the water. The most obvious reason is to get rid of that spent air - but clearing your mouth of water is great, too (like whales do!). Think of it like blowing out candles, but halfway through your breath, relax your lips - you'll get a little *puff* (but don't close your lips to actually make the "P"uff sound).

This sharp exhalation should also occur during the most quickest and most powerful portion of the stroke - immediately after the scull during the push (work those triceps!). Know how the karate/boxing guys make those sharp expirations as they strike? It helps you finish the stroke in a swift, powerful motion. The momentum of this push should drive your recovering arm and shoulder forward into the water and cause you to rotate naturally.

Now that the exhaling portion is out of the way, you wouldn't expect the inhalation to be any less complicated, would you? Well, it's not so bad! Make a shark-fin with your hand and use it to vertically bisect your face, as if you were blocking an eye-poke from the Three Stooges.

Like this guy!


Now move that hand (still vertical!) to the left edge of your mouth and twist your hand so that the plane your hand makes cuts through the center of your noggin and out the right rear of your head. If you're breathing to the right, everything to the left of your hand should still be in the water as you inhale. Now move that hand to the right edge of your mouth and twist etc. If you're breathing to the left, everything to the right of your hand should still be in the water as you inhale.

There's no need to pull your head back or twist your head so far as to see a lot of sky - it's not going anywhere, trust me.

Your breath should be completed by the time your recovering hand passes your nose. If you're rotating smoothly and consistently, your mouth would be partially under water by that time anyways. At that point, you're back to the beginning!

With regard to breathing every 2/3/4/etc, I was taught (and teach) that one should be comfortable with maintaining good stroke mechanics (stroke/kick/breath) for a good distance first, with modification to breathing coming only after the point where less focus is required to maintain proper stroke and kicking form. I think long distance runners use breath management as an advanced technique, too, so this may apply to other disciplines as well.

Good luck!

Wow, thanks. It;s good to hear experienced swimmers talk about the gestalt of breathing and stroking. The more we hear and the more we practice - the better we'll get!

A 3 count breath works great for keeping the stroke balanced but when you're pushing the pace it may not be enough to get the air you need.
What I do is I always breath to the same side of the pool. On the left on the first half of the lap and on the right on the 2nd half. This keeps me working on bi-lateral breathing without running out of breath.

fsr402 - Great idea! I'll try that - breathing to one side going down and the other coming back.

This may sound a bit odd, but I find using a snorkel helps me concentrate on relaxed breathing and getting fluidity to my form. To me the question of breathing, strokes and alternating sides and shouldn't be overanalyzed. It is like dance. Everything has to work together rhythmically and gracefully. If you look at Olympic swimmers, you will note a variety of styles of breathing and body position. If there is a "right" and "wrong" style of swimming, you would expect that everyone would have identical strokes.

Have fun.:love:

The Swimming Swami

I've been amazed at the gains I've seen just from easing up on the kicking. It's almost like the kicking was slowing me down!

I'm finding it much easier to breathe now that I'm moving a bit more efficiently... It seems like now I need to work on slower, deeper inhalation.

It's coming... slowly. :o

Kick definitely slows me down, I swam all the way through college on what my teammates referred to as a "flop kick," meaning my feet just flopped over one another as I rolled. I can't tell you how happy it makes me that I now get to excuse a lack of kicking as "saving my legs" for the bike and run.

The one thing I notice most amongst people who pick up swimming later in life or after an extended layoff is that their stroke tends to be either too flat, or they roll, from side to side but don't do it efficiently. Powering through the water using just arms/back muscles is inefficient. If you can incorporate your core, and use the momentum of your body mass to aid in your pull, you can go faster with less effort. Also, it forces you to be longer, meaning more hydrodynamic in the water.

Try this drill: Swim without using your arms. Using a steady kick (read: enough to keep you afloat and moving forward somewhat) keep your hands at your sides and roll back and forth like you're swimming. It will seem very awkward at first, and you may feel like you have to pick your head up to breathe. But focus on getting a good side to side roll, and you'll learn that there's a spot at the top of the roll where you can just turn your head and get a breath. As you get comfortable with the drill, you'll develop a natural rhythm, which will incorporate breathing. When you add the arms again, be careful to focus on the roll, make the pull itself an afterthought (for this drill). You should find that the stroke is smoother and more balanced.

Kick definitely slows me down, I swam all the way through college on what my teammates referred to as a "flop kick," meaning my feet just flopped over one another as I rolled. I can't tell you how happy it makes me that I now get to excuse a lack of kicking as "saving my legs" for the bike and run.

The one thing I notice most amongst people who pick up swimming later in life or after an extended layoff is that their stroke tends to be either too flat, or they roll, from side to side but don't do it efficiently. Powering through the water using just arms/back muscles is inefficient. If you can incorporate your core, and use the momentum of your body mass to aid in your pull, you can go faster with less effort. Also, it forces you to be longer, meaning more hydrodynamic in the water.

Try this drill: Swim without using your arms. Using a steady kick (read: enough to keep you afloat and moving forward somewhat) keep your hands at your sides and roll back and forth like you're swimming. It will seem very awkward at first, and you may feel like you have to pick your head up to breathe. But focus on getting a good side to side roll, and you'll learn that there's a spot at the top of the roll where you can just turn your head and get a breath. As you get comfortable with the drill, you'll develop a natural rhythm, which will incorporate breathing. When you add the arms again, be careful to focus on the roll, make the pull itself an afterthought (for this drill). You should find that the stroke is smoother and more balanced.

That drill is actually very similar to one on the TriSwimCoach DVD I just got... I'll be trying it tonight!

Here is my two cents....

If I am breathing on my left side.... when my right arm is pointing to the bottom of the pool and I start to push back for "thrust"...that is my exhale point. Arm comes up as my head rotates to the right, I breath....arm goes down in the water....points to the bottom of the pool...push back for "thrust"...exhale.

that's what I do and it feels comfortable to me.

exhale on thrust, that makes sense and easy to remember, kinda like weight training too