"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Doubling up?

I'm wondering why I don't see many people double up on races around here. I normally do the 3 and P123 races whenever I can, but I notice that lots of the 3's don't double up. It seems a little more common in the masters fields though. I figure it's the best $10 workout available, but I don't see people taking advantage.
Do people double up in your area?
Why or why not?

I do it just about every chance offered, and I know other guys do too. But yeah, it's mostly masters doing it. I suspect that the 2/3 crowd is trying to save their legs.

If people are targeting races, then they're probably too spent to do the P123.
If I was a 3, I'd try to double up.

I'm a 4, and I try to do more 3/4 or 4 only races, while trying to avoid 4/5 races.

I double up practically every crit. I'm a 42 year old Cat 4. Oh, and I suck.

If people are targeting races, then they're probably too spent to do the P123.
If I was a 3, I'd try to double up.

I'm a 4, and I try to do more 3/4 or 4 only races, while trying to avoid 4/5 races.

I definitely target the 3's races, and do the P123 just hoping to finish. I've been popped 3 laps in before. I'm not to the point where I can do much besides sit in, but I feel like that 2nd race definitely works me more, and that added racing will pay off down the line.

I do every race I can at crits. I don't even like to go races anymore where I can't do at least two :p

I definitely target the 3's races, and do the P123 just hoping to finish. I've been popped 3 laps in before. I'm not to the point where I can do much besides sit in, but I feel like that 2nd race definitely works me more, and that added racing will pay off down the line.

Yeah, truth.

I haven't raced since bethel (early april), but it has a CAT 4 and a CAT 3/4. I only went to the 3/4 since it was much later in the day and I figured that I'd learn more in that race.

Besides, I'm honestly not sure I could have handled racing the 4 race and then having something left for the 3/4. I wanted to do well in the 3/4 and for a new CAT4, I think I did pretty well.

There's a tuesday nighter here, and once I'm done finals, I'm definitely going to double up for the A and B race there. Just sitting in for a harder race can teach you so much!

If there's a huge time gap between the 45+ and the P-1-2, I'll likely skip one of them. But if they're near each other, I'm in.
The trifecta is killer: 45+, 35+, and P-1-2.
That's a long day in the drops.

I did a lot of that last year, I noticed that I have to have a longer, more intense warmup going into the second race. My system will usually bog down if the warmup is too light, and I'll be the guy who just sits in and the race isn't worth it.

Most of the races here have the 3's right before the P123, so I get a cool down lap and then I'm lined up at the back, ready to go again. I have noticed that I do better if there is a longer time gap between races.

I'm the complete opposite. If the next race is immediately following, then I'm golden.

I'm the complete opposite. If the next race is immediately following, then I'm golden.

+1 and if it's the second race you are targeting it's a perfect warmup :)

A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.

A lot of people are not old enough.

+1 No doubling up for me for quite a few years.

+1 and if it's the second race you are targeting it's a perfect warmup :)

Right, I need a pretty hard warmup to race or ride well. I usually ride 5 miles to the local training crit and tack on another 3-4 waiting for the race. If I don't warmup much, or I decide to drive, then I can't race well.
On my way home after the race, I'm still in race mode and average 25+.

A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.

In socal there are a fair number of 30+ crits. I suspect that doesn't really change things for you, except for the amount of time you have to wait... It's nice for me though, since I'm 30 :D

A lot of people are not old enough. Unfortunately until I am 35, I am only allowed to race one race. Seems kind of backwards if you ask me.

Thats kind of the 2nd part of my question. I kind of feel like there should be more races for the younger crowd, but I think for the promoters its more profitable, or easier to break even, when you have a lot of masters races. I mean there is a much higher percentage of racers over 30 here than under, and masters fields have the reputation of being safer, so it makes sense why they are more popular. There just aren't enough people to hold a U23 race on anything smaller than the national or international level (in the US).

If there were more Cat 3 races scheduled before the Masters, I'd think about doing both. But then the 3s would be much harder because I sort of rely on the Masters races to get the Masters 3s a bit tired. Usually the guys winning/placing in the 3s have already done two Masters races (and done very well in them, like winning them).

Since I target the 3s or 3/4s, I won't enter a race that's scheduled earlier in the day than that one.

At the same time, I'm finding it harder to hang onto the P123s after the 3s. I haven't finished a P123 race in probably 5 or 6 years (regardless of whether or not I did a 3 race before, although I usually did). If I can get into the meat of a P123 race (in a 40 lap race, make it into the last 10 laps with some legs left) then I'd do it. That's been 2-3 years.

With virtually no disposable income, my race budget has shrunk considerably and I'm spending it with some purpose in mind. So throwing $20 around suddenly seems excessive, whereas before it wasn't significant. So unless I feel like I could do most of the race, I won't spend the money.

I know it's a Catch-22. My early season used to be 1 - training series; 2 - enter a 123 race and hang on for dear life; 3 - enter Cat 3 races and think they're slow. Now I don't do step 2 because I can't hang on, and therefore Step 3 never happens.

cdr

I double or triple if I can.

Right, I need a pretty hard warmup to race or ride well. I usually ride 5 miles to the local training crit and tack on another 3-4 waiting for the race. If I don't warmup much, or I decide to drive, then I can't race well.
On my way home after the race, I'm still in race mode and average 25+.

+1, I can't ride at speed until I have a solid stinky sweat going.

You know what I never see, Quadrupling.

If I was 55, I'd do the 55+, 45+, 35+, and then play the P12's for what I had left.

You know what I never see, Quadrupling.

If I was 55, I'd do the 55+, 45+, 35+, and then play the P12's for what I had left.

Next year I may give it a shot at Sanford.

M40+
M30+
Cat3/4
Pro/1/2/3
(that is, if I'm still a 3 then)
Some guy attempted it last year but didn't finish the races.

I double up at nearly every crit. 35+, cat 3 or 123. given that the 123 is last race of the day (at like 3:00 or later) I usually skip it due to family obligations. I'd like to do more of them, but to be gone from home or expect my wife and 2 y.o. to hang out at the races for 6+ hours doest fly at chez MDcatV.

Most of our races around here don't have a P123 field, it is P12 only. Masters races are usually 40+ and a lot of us double up. I've never had the opportunity to try a triple.

Anyone double up on road races? I've seen quite a few 40+ guys do it around here, and I have one time but it is a pretty tough day for me.

I'll double up if I don't have more than one race between events; I prefer if the events are back to back.

I'll double up if I don't have more than one race between events; I prefer if the events are back to back.

Yep. Especially when I realized that it would be easier pin the number for the second race on a fresh jersey rather than scrambling to un-pin and re-pin.

Yep. Especially when I realized that it would be easier pin the number for the second race on a fresh jersey rather than scrambling to un-pin and re-pin.

Pin one number on top of the other one, then tear or cut the top number off. :thumb:

I did a 100+ mile day by doubling up RR's at the Walburg (TX) race in Feb. That was a loooong day since I got shelled early in both races.

But I salvaged a 2nd on Sunday, so the weekend worked out.

Pin one number on top of the other one, then tear or cut the top number off. :thumb:

I tried that at Dilworth. Didn't work so good. The paper was too think. The official had to go get a knife and the race was held up. I felt like a jackass.

OK.. found this with the search engine.. but didn't answer my question.

I have a chance to double up this Sunday, very unusual for the women.. so I don't want to miss the chance..

First race 45 minute, then men's 75 minute race inbetween.. 2nd race 60 minutes.

looking for advice on keeping the legs alive between races.. eating etc.

thanks

OK.. found this with the search engine.. but didn't answer my question.

I have a chance to double up this Sunday, very unusual for the women.. so I don't want to miss the chance..

First race 45 minute, then men's 75 minute race inbetween.. 2nd race 60 minutes.

looking for advice on keeping the legs alive between races.. eating etc.

thanks

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm new to racing, but here is what I do when double up.

Spin down after the first race. Probably 10-15' suuuper easy. If I have time (you have to judge for yourself with only one 75' race in between if you think you have enough time), I like to get out of my kit, put some street clothes on and walk around a bit. I make sure to sip on either water or sports drink (probably drink about one bottle total) and eat a granola bar (nature valley for me) and a banana. Then I make sure to get back in my kit and do a good 15-20' warmup (suuper easy with a couple hard efforts) to reopen the legs.

I'm old enough, but I don't think I have the legs. Category=Noob.
I suppose it could be a way to get ahead on my 10 mass starts (or does it not count?)

If you have a foam roller or 'the stick' massage between racing. Eat a clif bar and have a bottle of drink. Try spinning for 5-10 mins (atleast) before the 2nd race and then dive right in.

Also, I often that I feel the best in my second race of the day.

Thanks guys.. I have a foam roller, and a second jersey.. so I can use a different jersey..
for the second race.. and not try and double pin the numbers..

the "food" sounds about right...

I'll post on the race report thread :-)

@colmom - make sure you spin out your legs well, eat, change kit if possible, warm up a bit (probably won't need much), go toe the line.

@myclem - you've got the legs for it, both starts will count.

My strongest races so far this year have been the second half of a double-header.

Notes:
-Consider carefully what you eat - Avoid "over-sugaring" your stomach, mine doesn't like vast quantities of sugar, so mix up the food intake.
-Stay hydrated - i don't like commercial sports drinks (gatorade etc), but I'm all for salt and mineral replacement stuff
-Keep the legs from getting tight between races - spin down.... this is very important
-Be intentional about power conservation during your races, but don't race cautiously
-Go tear it up!

OK.. found this with the search engine.. but didn't answer my question.

I have a chance to double up this Sunday, very unusual for the women.. so I don't want to miss the chance..

First race 45 minute, then men's 75 minute race inbetween.. 2nd race 60 minutes.

looking for advice on keeping the legs alive between races.. eating etc.

thanks

bunnyhop? very flat short industrial park crit

1st, target one of the races as your "results" target, the other to try something different like going from the gun, being more aggressive, or if you're aggressive, try sitting in or whatever - mix it up

take 2 jerseys so you can pin ea. up ahead of time, this alleviates stress between races

after 1st take a recovery lap

drink recovery drink

i prefer to change kits because the wet chamois is gross, but that's up to you

sit in your car w feet up, sip dont gulp but sip water or whatever you normally drink and eat a sandwich or whatever you normally eat during a longer ride

warm up - this can be tricky, some find that they wu really quickly, others (me) need more spin to get a groove back

port a john

start line

dominate

Thanks guys.. I have a foam roller, and a second jersey.. so I can use a different jersey..
for the second race.. and not try and double pin the numbers..

the "food" sounds about right...

I'll post on the race report thread :-)

Awesome! Go kick it!

bunnyhop? very flat short industrial park crit

1st, target one of the races as your "results" target, the other to try something different like going from the gun, being more aggressive, or if you're aggressive, try sitting in or whatever - mix it up

take 2 jerseys so you can pin ea. up ahead of time, this alleviates stress between races

after 1st take a recovery lap

drink recovery drink

i prefer to change kits because the wet chamois is gross, but that's up to you

sit in your car w feet up, sip dont gulp but sip water or whatever you normally drink and eat a sandwich or whatever you normally eat during a longer ride

warm up - this can be tricky, some find that they wu really quickly, others (me) need more spin to get a groove back

port a john

start line

dominate

All good advice, just wanted to emphasize the bolded one. Don't do what I did -- went too hard in the first race but not didn't totally commit to it, got 19th. Tried to recover in the second, but didn't save enough, got 19th. I'd rather take a top 5 and a DFL than two 19ths.

All good advice, just wanted to emphasize the bolded one. Don't do what I did -- went too hard in the first race but not didn't totally commit to it, got 19th. Tried to recover in the second, but didn't save enough, got 19th. I'd rather take a top 5 and a DFL than two 19ths.

Thanks for all the great advise.. I'm excited.. the fitness is coming along.. and flat crits are my strength.. :-)

I just go by mileage. I only have so many crit miles in me over a weekend. That's usually four races between two days.

bunnyhop? very flat short industrial park crit

1st, target one of the races as your "results" target, the other to try something different like going from the gun, being more aggressive, or if you're aggressive, try sitting in or whatever - mix it up

take 2 jerseys so you can pin ea. up ahead of time, this alleviates stress between races

after 1st take a recovery lap

drink recovery drink

i prefer to change kits because the wet chamois is gross, but that's up to you

sit in your car w feet up, sip dont gulp but sip water or whatever you normally drink and eat a sandwich or whatever you normally eat during a longer ride

warm up - this can be tricky, some find that they wu really quickly, others (me) need more spin to get a groove back

port a john

start line

dominate

+1000, feels good too.

for the second race I like to spin for a long time, 45m easy, then 2' at 100+ recover, and another 1' at 105%, spin spin spin...race.

bunnyhop? very flat short industrial park crit

1st, target one of the races as your "results" target, the other to try something different like going from the gun, being more aggressive, or if you're aggressive, try sitting in or whatever - mix it up


Dude, every time I see you double up it works like this:

Race #1 - MDCatV attack like mad

Race #2 - MDCatV attack like mad

Dude, every time I see you double up it works like this:

Race #1 - MDCatV attack like mad

Race #2 - MDCatV attack like mad

Lol.

As it should be.

We only have M35+ and the categories. There aren't any races with two separate categories (3 and P123). It's either a 3 or a P123 weekend.
I won't qualify to race masters for another 3 years otherwise I'd double up in a heartbeat.


One of our guys raced 3 times literally back to back at the Lake Mary crit last year... 45's, 35's and he jumped in the 3's.

I doubled up once and decided not to do it again--I don't conserve energy very well.

First race, 3/4 45 minutes, NP/AP = 368/327 watts
Second race, 2/3 50 minutes, NP/AP = 347/297 watts

I was cramping up by the end of the second race. I decided after that just to commit to one race.

I doubled up once and decided not to do it again--I don't conserve energy very well.

First race, 3/4 45 minutes, NP/AP = 368/327 watts
Second race, 2/3 50 minutes, NP/AP = 347/297 watts

I was cramping up by the end of the second race. I decided after that just to commit to one race.

You probably know more than I, but do you think it was more from lack of hydration than muscle fatigue?
If you drink really well in the first race and make sure you don't lose too much you really shouldn't cramp.
Then drink, drink, drink in the second race.

Just a thought. If I know I'm going to do more than one race in the weekend - or 3 or even 4 races - I will make sure I am properly hydrated the days leading up to the race. I also tend to eat a heckuvalot more.
Last weekend I did a road race on Sat. and two crits on Sun. The second crit was a P/1/2/3 race and it was so blazing fast every time I reached for my bottle I had to stop because of a surge or attack. It was an hour long and I didn't cramp even though I couldn't drink (my stupid fault). Not bragging or anything like that. I contribute it to staying really well hydrated the week before (drinking 1 gallon + of water per day) and drinking a lot in the races prior and after.

Hydration/nutrition was definitely an issue. I had 5 water bottles with enduraid (or something like that) + another gallon jug, but regardless of how much I drank I still felt spent/not all there.

Hydration has always been an issue with me. If I had hydrated properly, I wouldn't have hit the sign last may (I would have been able to bridge up to the lead group--I was 3/4 of the way there when I cramped) and I'd be racing today. I'm thinking of getting the camelbak racebak. Be interesting to see how it feels racing in the heat.

Dude, every time I see you double up it works like this:

Race #1 - MDCatV attack like mad

Race #2 - MDCatV attack like mad

in the words of my father: "do as i say, not as i do":lol:

many congratulations on the upgrade! i think you'll have alot more fun with the P123 races than the straight 3 or 3/4 fields.

Sadly I very rarely have the option. I can sometimes double up at collegiate races (collegiate A/p/1/2) but those are so early in the season I rarely do. I'm not about to do that much intensity while I'm still in base...

I'm looking forward to being the masters cat 1 everyone hates :) RacerX style!