Road Cycling - What Makes a Cervelo So Great???

There's nothing nice about a Cervelo. Even among modern carbon fibre bikes, they are about as ugly as ugly gets. Why would anyone buy one if not for the perception of speed.



http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1554/thebiglebowskijeffbridg.jpg (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thebiglebowskijeffbridg.jpg)

"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

Some people pay their bike manufacturer to do engineering and wind tunnel testing. Others pay to have someone spend 18 hours on cutting curly-Q's of no structural importance into a lug. To each his own, I suppose.

Some people pay their bike manufacturer to do engineering and wind tunnel testing.

Well all the makes with racing ambitions do this, don't they? So it's not something that is specific to Cervelo. There are some very aesthetically-attractive carbon fibre racing bikes out there. Cervelo isn't one of them.

Admit it. You bought one because of the advertising, right?

Well all the makes with racing ambitions do this, don't they? So it's not something that is specific to Cervelo. There are some very aesthetically-attractive carbon fibre racing bikes out there. Cervelo isn't one of them.

Admit it. You bought one because of the advertising, right?

I bought it based on several recommendations from other triathletes and multiple shops--ended up buying from Competitive Cyclist--and its excellent reputation in TT/Tri. It was also the cheapest of the higher-end frames I was shopping for, and fit me well.

No, it's not a sexy paint job. It's black and white and red. If I cared about that, I suppose it would be a problem.

Some people pay their bike manufacturer to do engineering and wind tunnel testing. Others pay to have someone spend 18 hours on cutting curly-Q's of no structural importance into a lug. To each his own, I suppose.


Although I think Cervelo makes some nice bikes, the whole "R & D" hype as well as wind tunnel testing thing is way overblown, especially as a perceived reason for higher cost. There is only so much these companies are going to change from year to year and once they get the template down, they run it over and over.

I have been cycling for a long time and I remember Cervelo when they were new. They had some nice steel and aluminum frames at really good pricepoints. They couldn't command high prices at the time and were more of a value oriented company. They cultivated their persona well and are now able to benefit from their popularity. This will eventually backfire as it always does when people will see them as too common and the next company comes along.

Unlike Giant and Trek, they farm their production of CF frames out with their input in frame design. But a lot of other companies do that. They are far less innovative than Trek and Giant in that regard. Although I love the aesthetics of my new Isaac Impulse, at the end of the day, it is another nice Asian made CF frame. Isaac has a whole persona they created which is more esoteric and cerebral (ie. named after Isaac Newton and utilizing shapes found in nature for strength, blah blah blah).
http://www.pezatrading.nl/upload/document/210.pdf?PHPSESSID=b29671a61542ce27522f7b9c7c48f274
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2008/reviews/isaac_sonic08

I like the way it looks, it got great reviews and it is as fast as I can make it. All these high end frames are comparable whether people want to admit it or not. There just isn't that much new under the sun with these CF frames. Larger tubes = stiffer ride, that is about all you need to know.

There just isn't that much new under the sun with these CF frames. Larger tubes = stiffer ride, that is about all you need to know.
But larger tubes does not necessarily mean stiffer ride. Stiffness on one plane does not necessarily apply to all planes. A stiff bottom bracket and headset does not necessarily mean the ride must be stiff. Look at the Cervélo R3 and RS. These bikes have very thin seat stays. On the RS they are curved. The idea to offer some compliance without compromising stiffness where it is needed.

The concept is not new, but the execution is unique.....

S-

But larger tubes does not necessarily mean stiffer ride. Stiffness on one plane does not necessarily apply to all planes. A stiff bottom bracket and headset does not necessarily mean the ride must be stiff. Look at the Cervélo R3 and RS. These bikes have very thin seat stays. On the RS they are curved. The idea to offer some compliance without compromising stiffness where it is needed.

The concept is not new, but the execution is unique.....

S-

"vertically compliant, laterallly stiff."

or did i get it backwards?

I bought it based on several recommendations from other triathletes

I guess that might be why we have different viewpoints about bicycle aesthetics. I won't say anything unkind about triathletes. They can ride fast, but they can't ride :-)

Some people actually liked and bought Pontiac Aztecs, too.

At the end of the day, Cervelo makes the bikes and the customer buys them. I have yet to meet a Cervelo owner (not once, not EVER) who didn't LOVE their bicycle. Every model, every person I speak with who actually OWNS and RIDES the bicycles.

So THAT is what makes a Cervelo so great. Any product that makes its customers happy is arguably a great product. Aren't happy customers the ultimate test of that? I'd say Cervelo passes that particular test. I'm trying to understand why that's a problem.

If the bikes bother you, don't buy one. Going on BF to trash the product doesn't prove anything besides the fact that you're some kind of sophomoric idiot.

And by the way, before anybody launches into this silly 'you justify your purchase by liking it', I've had many racing bikes, including a few I didn't care for. I love the S2. The magazines all love the Cervelos as well, for whatever that's worth. But if the bikes really sucked, people would buy them, ride them for a year, and sell them. All the people I talk to love their Cervelos and they've had them for a while.

No, you can't have mine.

I like the way it looks, it got great reviews and it is as fast as I can make it. All these high end frames are comparable whether people want to admit it or not. There just isn't that much new under the sun with these CF frames. Larger tubes = stiffer ride, that is about all you need to know.

Except that overlooks the aerodynamics piece. That's one area--with the exception of the R series--that Cervelo places more emphasis on than some of the other companies. Whether that's important to you is another question.

And really, there are companies that charge a whole lot more for bikes that get a similar amount of design effort put into them.

For instance...

Cervelo P4: $4800
P3: $3300
P2: $2200

Scott Plasma LTD: $3399

Pinarello: Montello FP8: $5900
Montello FM1: $8000

Ridley Dean: $3499

Wilier Cento Crono: $4499

Specialized Transition Pro: $2500

Kuota Kueen-K: $3999
Kalibur: $2499

Compared to their competition, the Cervelos are hardly exorbitant... Of course, that's for the TT/tri category.

The thread started out originally as "What Makes a Cervelo So Great???"

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

/thread.

The thread started out originally as "What Makes a Cervelo So Great???"

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

"Pretty much the same" just illustrates your inability to tell a difference. Some people might appreciate it, some might not. How large those differences are--and whether they're subjective or objective--is irrelevant. As I mentioned before, if my goal is getting drunk on red wine, I can have a $1500 bottle of Chateau Margaux 2005 or a $5 bottle of Sutter Home and both will get the job done. Besides, the corrolary of "Cervelo makes great bikes" is NOT "other companies don't."

But since the bike matters so little, I'm sure you ride that entry level bike with Sora, right? Of course you don't.

At the end of the day, why do you care? Why do Cervelo and the people who ride them make you so angry?

You should really all be asking yourselves

'What makes Pcad so great?'.

You should really all be asking yourselves

'What makes Pcad so great?'.

He rides a Cervelo, duh. :)

The thread started out originally as "What Makes a Cervelo So Great???"

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

How dare you state the obvious to these velo zombies.

How dare you state the obvious to these velo zombies.

What bike do you ride? I'm sure it's an entry level bike with Sora.

I've had my share of entry-level bikes. In fact, I rode only a Raleigh Record from 1970 until 1990. I have more great memories of riding that cheap bike than any other. Sure, eventually, at a time that I could, I got something hand-built, but I wouldn't sit here and claim that it goes faster or really does anything better except that it handles a lot better. But I didn't buy a name. I bought custom fit, unlike outfits like Cervelo who think custom is an assortment of seat posts and stems and who have the gall to assert it as some kind of advantage.

You should really all be asking yourselves

'What makes Pcad so great?'.

It's like they don't even take me seriously on BF anymore.

I've had my share of entry-level bikes. In fact, I rode only a Raleigh Record from 1970 until 1990. I have more great memories of riding that cheap bike than any other. Sure, eventually, at a time that I could, I got something hand-built, but I wouldn't sit here and claim that it goes faster or really does anything better except that it handles a lot better. But I didn't buy a name. I bought custom fit, unlike outfits like Cervelo who thinks custom is an assortment of seat posts and stems and who have the gall to assert it as some kind of advantage.

And who's the custom builder? What are the differences from stock geometry that make it superior?

I don't even really need to point out the incredible logical fallacy of "I don't like it, so the entire brand must suck for every rider everywhere."

It's like they don't even take me seriously on BF anymore.

All you have to do now is say "Cervelo" and all the real snobs come out of the woodwork.

The thread started out originally as "What Makes a Cervelo So Great???"

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

The advertising is something I take with a grain of salt as it is a lot of BS, but sometimes a company just gets a particular frame "RIGHT". Many times they don't and they move onto a different design, but I agree that there really isn't much "new under the sun" as far as design. The whole "Aero" thing was done years ago in other materials than carbon. Benefits are minimal at best.

If a Cervelo fan or someone who chooses Trek, Parlee, Specialized, or Pedal Force for that matter, we all know geometry and fit mean more than any of the other BS.

we all know geometry and fit mean more than any of the other BS.

Now they tell me.

I've had my share of entry-level bikes. In fact, I rode only a Raleigh Record from 1970 until 1990. I have more great memories of riding that cheap bike than any other. Sure, eventually, at a time that I could, I got something hand-built, but I wouldn't sit here and claim that it goes faster or really does anything better except that it handles a lot better. But I didn't buy a name. I bought custom fit, unlike outfits like Cervelo who think custom is an assortment of seat posts and stems and who have the gall to assert it as some kind of advantage.

And if the entry level bike with Sora works just fine, why did you waste your money on a custom bike?

Nothing brings out the envy and insecurity like a Cervelo thread, even beats a Pinarello Prince one.

Nothing brings out the envy and insecurity like a Cervelo thread, even beats a Pinarello Prince one.

This is more akin to let's-bash-the-fixie-dude-ruining-old-steeds kind of thread. I don't think any Cervelo-bashers secretly want a Cervelo here.

I'm not saying they aren't good bikes. Most companies make good bikes. Most Chinese-made frames are as good as any other similar frame. So was the dog food and baby formula. Oh wait, those aren't good examples.

The thread started out originally as "What Makes a Cervelo So Great???"

Nothing. They are pretty much the same any other of the many similar bikes. That's always the way it's been with bikes. Why? Because contrary to popular opinion, a bicycle is a relatively low-tech mechanical device. You can make it lighter, you can make it more or less reliable than it was before, but you're not really improving much. That's why companies like that need all the phoney, childish advertising. Get out on the road with your Cervelo, and a kid on an entry-level bike with Sora components can do anything you can do or more. Difference in price, a few thousand dollars. That's just the way it is.

it wont turn heads the way a kid on a Cervelo would.

Now they tell me.


Hence, the "we all know" in my comment.

Nothing brings out the envy and insecurity like a Cervelo thread, even beats a Pinarello Prince one.

Cervelo gets more jabs than Pinarello, De Rosa, Time, etc as the latter are less common and have more mystique. The SAME dynamic happened at the height of Litespeed's reign. In 1996-97 when I bought my first one, they were highly coveted by all. Titanium was the "wonder material" and was way more expensive than carbon is today when adjusted for inflation. I paid almost $4k for my first Litespeed with Dura Ace then. But once they became ubiquitous, they became "lame". We all know why this happens.

So, when people say Cervelo in the new Trek, it isn't that far off base. The Madone is a great bike but a lot of people simply would look elsewhere because it is a "Trek". If one were given to us, we'd probably be in love with it.

Eventually Vroomen and White will grow old and sell out for retirement. Then it won't be the same. Not the same passion for the pursuit of excellence.

I'm not saying they aren't good bikes. Most companies make good bikes. Most Chinese-made frames are as good as any other similar frame. So was the dog food and baby formula. Oh wait, those aren't good examples.


:) Here in Florida it's drywall (sheetrock). Apparently Chinese drywall emits fumes that corrodes electrical fixtures, I kid you not. Google "Chinese drywall" if you don't believe me. Of course it also stinks and makes the home inhabitable.

While I have no doubt Cervelos are built to a much higher standard I do wish the Canadians who designed them decided to save money by building in Taiwan as opposed to China.

While that observation will probably get me flamed let me hasten to add I'm sure they're great bikes and since I'm not in the market for a new bike I have no other opinion of the brand.


:beer:

:) Here in Florida it's drywall (sheetrock). Apparently Chinese drywall emits fumes that corrodes electrical fixtures, I kid you not. Google "Chinese drywall" if you don't believe me. Of course it also stinks and makes the home inhabitable.

While I have no doubt Cervelos are built to a much higher standard I do wish the Canadians who designed them decided to save money by building in Taiwan as opposed to China.

While that observation will probably get me flamed let me hasten to add I'm sure they're great bikes and since I'm not in the market for a new bike I have no other opinion of the brand.


:beer:

Well, I am gonna come right out and support you on this as I have verbalized this notion for quite some time. The move to mainland China does nothing but increase profit margins for these companies and none of the savings is passed onto the consumer which is the case in every other manufacturing realm.

I get crap for this because people here don't like to admit this because of the price tags we pay for these frames, but it is the truth. Taiwanese made frames and the cost of labor is more in line with the retail prices than mainland China. My Isaac was "engineered in Germany" but "made in China". My Mongoose was made in Taiwan and is a lot less money but is finished better than my Isaac. There is a lot of bull#$#$ in marketing and brand perception but they are both great bikes nonetheless.

What bike do you ride? I'm sure it's an entry level bike with Sora.

Doc,
When I started buying good road bikes in 1980,there really was not much"entry level"in true road gear around my area.At my age you assume I have one entry level bike,what brought that up?
I tried a Sora derailer once and found them stiff and unreliable under a load.My choice is always new Ultegra or discontinued Suntour Edge groups.
All CF frames feel the same to me,so I generally go with price.Does price always mean "entry level'? Just have to know when to hit the sales in winter.
I used to spend over $3000 for a CF windsurf board,boom,mast and sail but never consider such money a bike.I guess it depends on how over the top you are in that particular hobby to really loosen the purse strings.

Eventually Vroomen and White will grow old and sell out for retirement. Then it won't be the same. Not the same passion for the pursuit of excellence.

So Vroomen and White have a passion and pursuit of excellence that no one else can ever match? Boy, no wonder so many in this thread have come to the conclusion that Cervelo fanboys are delusional.;)

I am a Cervelo owner but I'm not overly-enamored by the bike I bought from them. It's good, no doubt, but it did have a couple of problems that required the dealer to fix before I even had a chance to assemble the bike. Once the problems were fixed, it was just fine.

Eventually Vroomen and White will grow old and sell out for retirement. Then it won't be the same. Not the same passion for the pursuit of excellence.

In 20+ years perhaps. They're not that old.

Hence, the "we all know" in my comment.

To paraphrase J. Cramer,

They know NOTHING.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/05/10/cramer/image/kramer7.jpg

At the end of the day, Cervelo makes the bikes and the customer buys them. I have yet to meet a Cervelo owner (not once, not EVER) who didn't LOVE their bicycle. Every model, every person I speak with who actually OWNS and RIDES the bicycles.

So THAT is what makes a Cervelo so great. Any product that makes its customers happy is arguably a great product. Aren't happy customers the ultimate test of that? I'd say Cervelo passes that particular test. I'm trying to understand why that's a problem.

If the bikes bother you, don't buy one. Going on BF to trash the product doesn't prove anything besides the fact that you're some kind of sophomoric idiot.

the bikes are fine, we're bashing the maroons who worship them.

the bikes are fine, we're bashing the maroons who worship them.

No you're not. You're bashing the brand. You're insulting the owners. Just because I own a Cervelo doesn't mean I worship the brand. That's preposterous. That makes you the maroon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/petefrank/Politics/WhataMaroon.jpg

The idiocy of some of the people on BF is not measurable with traditional technology.

is it a requirement to have a Pot Belly to ride a Cervelo?

No you're not. You're bashing the brand. You're insulting the owners. Just because I own a Cervelo doesn't mean I worship the brand. That's preposterous. That makes you the maroon.

http://img.photobucket.com /albums/v372/petefrank/Politics/WhataMaroon.jpg

The idiocy of some of the people on BF is not measurable with traditional technology.

Are you even aware of your preachy attitude towards anything Cervelo?

is it a requirement to have a Pot Belly to ride a Cervelo?

No, but it appears that the Cervelo (and Trek, etc) Bashers are all morons.

Are you even aware of your preachy attitude towards anything Cervelo?

I'm so misunderstood. It's my Cross to bear.

Can I get a Witness?

Well, I am gonna come right out and support you on this as I have verbalized this notion for quite some time. The move to mainland China does nothing but increase profit margins for these companies and none of the savings is passed onto the consumer which is the case in every other manufacturing realm.


You don't think your bike would be more expensive if it were made in Europe?

No, but it appears that the Cervelo (and Trek, etc) Bashers are all morons.
now,now.....you,ll show them.....you,ll show them all....

now,now.....you,ll show them.....you,ll show them all....

You'll see.

No, but it appears that the Cervelo (and Trek, etc) Bashers are all morons.

What's wrong with bashing ubiquity and brand worshipers? Nike, Walmart, McDonalds, Microsoft, Apple, etc gets it all the time. Cervelo-bashing is a drop in the bucket compared to those.


You don't think your bike would be more expensive if it were made in Europe?

The inexpensive labor involved in carbon fiber manufacturing? PPP. Paying living wages in Europe is higher than China.

The idiocy of some of the people on BF is not measurable with traditional technology.

^:lol:^

I'm proud to say that my idiocy is on the bleeding edge of technology.

What's wrong with bashing ubiquity and brand worshipers?

There is no such thing as bashing brand 'worshipers'. There is only brand bashing.