Road Cycling - Newbie with a few ?'s

Hi folks. I'm a 36 yr old male and have been biking for a few years primarily because I cannot jog anymore because of a painful foot condition. I ride on the road about 90% of the time with a Trek Navigator 200. It is an inexpensive "comfort" bike. It has a wide tire but no knobbies in the center. I've been riding about 6 days/week between 12 and 15 miles a day for the past 2 months, last year I didn't touch the bike I was only doing the treadmill.

I ride with my neighbor some of the time and he drops me almost everytime we climb a hill. Our favorite hill is 1.1 mile long with no breaks. I would guess its about 10% grade. I wear a heart rate monitor and I'm at least 180 bpm all the way up which takes me about 7.5 minutes. I know my cardiac conditioning will improve the more I climb but I would like to learn more about technique and training.

First off technique. I'm really not sure what is the better gear to be in when climbing. When i'm in the up position I can either chose the 48 tooth sprocket in front and the 19 tooth sprocket in back OR 38 tooth for front and 15 for the back. Sorry if that question seems retarted. Also, out of the saddle or in the saddle or a mix? I was out of the saddle the entire climb tonight. Any tips on that?

Lastly training. From earlier posts I read were talking about recovery rides. Is that to say I should not be riding that monster hill every night pushing my heart rate to 100%. I'd really love to be able to catch my neighbor on the climbs but also do not want to push so hard as to inhibit my progress.

Thx in advance.

This is what I do to help me up the hills. On steep hills I stay seated and position myself towards the front of the seat and I keep my cadence high. Think light, don't pedal squares. Try keeping your heels down, sometimes that helps too. Don't forget to breath and try and stay relaxed.

Hlweyl,

Welcome to the forums.

First, a 1.1 mile hill at 10% is a serious climb. Last year I was riding a comfort bike also, here are a few thoughts:

Swap the tires for some high pressure slicks. These will make a significant improvement in speed, however they will be almost unusable off road.

If your neighbor is riding a road bike, you’ll have a tough time keeping up. The most noticeable change from my 35 Lb comfort bike to my 20 Lb road bike is the ease of climbing hills.

For most people, the most efficient way to climb (and ride in general) is to ride in a low gear with a high cadence. Try riding up the hill in a much lower gear then you have mentioned, and stay in the saddle as much as possible. If the hill is really 10%, I would think you should be using your smallest front gear.

Research has indicated that well conditioned professional atheletes when riding a bicycle, will adopt cadences in the mid 90's. It's not uncommon for most receational and enthusiast riders to average cadences in the mid 70's. I have no idea where you belong within these groups. However, your gear ratios (48x19 and 38x15) are identical at 2.53 and with a cadence of 90 your speed will be very close to 17.8 mph. That's based on the loaded circumference of a Mavic OpenPro or CXP33 wheel with 700x23c tyres and a 163lb rider. It seems to me that this is a commendable speed up a significant incline. Additional research has also shown my fellow forum posters to be correct in that increasing cadence would be the right approach to increasing speed. But this takes time to develop your cardiovascular abilities and leg strength.

Research has indicated that well conditioned professional atheletes when riding a bicycle, will adopt cadences in the mid 90's. It's not uncommon for most receational and enthusiast riders to average cadences in the mid 70's. I have no idea where you belong within these groups. However, your gear ratios (48x19 and 38x15) are identical at 2.53 and with a cadence of 90 your speed will be very close to 17.8 mph. That's based on the loaded circumference of a Mavic OpenPro or CXP33 wheel with 700x23c tyres and a 163lb rider. It seems to me that this is a commendable speed up a significant incline. Additional research has also shown my fellow forum posters to be correct in that increasing cadence would be the right approach to increasing speed. But this takes time to develop your cardiovascular abilities and leg strength.

If I were going 17 mph up that hill I would be the MAN. I have a very slow cadence when out of the saddle. I don't have a bike computer but I calculated time and distance last night and I'm at about 8 mph. I'm not crazy about the idea of changing to a skinny tire because we still occasionally do trails. He has a similiar bike with smaller slick tires, not as small as a road bike though.

I will try to increase my cadence and start staying in the saddle more. Thx for the tips.

"If I were going 17 mph up that hill I would be the MAN. I have a very slow cadence when out of the saddle. I don't have a bike computer but I calculated time and distance last night and I'm at about 8 mph. I'm not crazy about the idea of changing to a skinny tire because we still occasionally do trails. He has a similiar bike with smaller slick tires, not as small as a road bike though.

I will try to increase my cadence and start staying in the saddle more. Thx for the tips."

At 8mph your cadence is at 40.5 (with either of the gear ratio choics that you've posted). I had read that as an incline begins to slow you a bit, push your but towards the rear of the saddle and "roll" your pelvis backwards. This position is not good for increasing cadence but it does increase the deliverable power of each stroke. In essence it is a copy of what a recumbent position is (but not so nearly extreme). I have shared this information with a number of cyclists that I know. Some had already known of this technique. For those that didn't and then tried it, every one has adopted it for situations where an incline begins to slow their cadence below where they want it to be and they're quickly running out of gears. However, if you are really down to a cadence of 40rpm or so, I'd use whatever other gear choices that were available to you to pick up the cadence a bit. Then, try the butt back and the hips (pelvis) rolled towards the rear technique. MTB riders do it this way as well. It's a seated power position.

Make sure that you slide BACK in the saddle to better engage your glutes, and work on developing a smooth and round pedal stroke- push down, drag your foot across the bottom of the stroke, and pull up and over the top. What you are trying to do is spread the workload over more muscle groups. A round stroke will use the quads and hamstrings equally, and by adding some glute action, you get more power on the push part of the stroke. It will feel a little strange at first, but will quickly become a reflex action.

I know exactly the technique that you guys are referring to. I get really good leverage in that position. I'm going to try the 1.1 mile hill again tonight in the seated position and time myself again to compare it to when I was out of the saddle the entire time. One thing I have to continually correct in myself is I have a tendency to lock my arms when sitting.

I guess I always strived to stand and climb because I see Lance and those guys climbing alot out of the saddle.

Make sure that you slide BACK in the saddle to better engage your glutes, and work on developing a smooth and round pedal stroke- push down, drag your foot across the bottom of the stroke, and pull up and over the top. What you are trying to do is spread the workload over more muscle groups. A round stroke will use the quads and hamstrings equally, and by adding some glute action, you get more power on the push part of the stroke. It will feel a little strange at first, but will quickly become a reflex action.

that's more like it (and have read about; "pedal like you're scraping something off your shoes" and in complete circles), engages more muscles

I also try to pay attention to breathing and going up a hill is a great place to practice; I've read to pay attention to when you exhale and what leg is on the downstroke at that time when in the saddle. apparently there's more power with the exhaling downstroke so to share the power, switch off legs (instead of falling into a cadence/pattern where you exhale always on the same leg) to share the benefit. of course controlling/paying attention to good breathing (in through the nose, out through the mouth) is beneficial to climbing to bring the heartrate down and disperse the oxygen to the needy muscles.

Have you fitted toe clips or are you on platforms.
Its hard to ride at high cadence without any attatchment to the pedals. Clipless are even more effective, but hardly worthwhile on a comfort bike.
You can train yourself to pedal fast. Dont train for cadence at the same time as riding hard. Pick an easy gear, and spin easily, remembering that cranks cannot be stretched, so pedal in circles.
A 1.5" high pressure slick is good for general purpose riding, and can take some light trail use.

wow...out of the saddle all the way on a mtb. That sounds tough. I ride a road bike and the clipless pedals make all the differance in the world. If i were you I'd spin up the hill with a higher cadence and remember to thrust your hips foward ,arch your back with your chest foward so you can stretch your diaphram....it'll help with your breathing....even if your tired avoid slumping with your head down...try it it helps.



kern

Thx, alot of good tips. I have the old fashion toe straps. I guess cadence will come the more I ride, perhaps getting a computer will help. I'm guessing they beep or emit a tone to let you know the proper cadence.

I'm thinking I should increase my ride times also. The longest I go now is a 15 miles ride which takes me just over an hour. It sounds like many of you are going for several hours at a time.

When i'm in the up position I can either chose the 48 tooth sprocket in front and the 19 tooth sprocket in back OR 38 tooth for front and 15 for the back.
how come you can't go 38-19? smallest in the front, biggest in rear? I'm guessing 19 is your biggest gear on the cassette? If not, go to maximum granny gear. 10% is pretty steep for a newbie (me included) to be running anything but granny.

Thx, alot of good tips. I have the old fashion toe straps. I guess cadence will come the more I ride, perhaps getting a computer will help. I'm guessing they beep or emit a tone to let you know the proper cadence.

I'm thinking I should increase my ride times also. The longest I go now is a 15 miles ride which takes me just over an hour. It sounds like many of you are going for several hours at a time.

not necessarily. if your goal is to get better at climbing, you should focus on climbing, not on time spent on the bike. you already spend virtually everyday on the bike so i think you're fine in that regard. train climbing. don't train speed. don't train distance. train climbing.

to this end, don't just climb "more" in the saddle, _always_ climb in the saddle. climbing out of the saddle expends way more energy/oxygen than in the saddle. climbing in the saddle will develop your lower back muscles and allow you to pull up on the stroke. your gearing is way too high. gear down so you can peddle faster at a higher cadence. you should be chugging right along, not mashing it (though mashing it will develop your muscles, i think you should develop your cadence). you see guys like lance climbing out of the saddle a lot because (1) it relieves the back pain and (2) they're gaining speed so that they can sit down and maintain a high cadence.

also, relax your upper body, grip the top bar firmly but not harshly, and towards the outside of the bar to open up your chest. and make an effort to take good deep breaths, not quick wee ones.

oh, one last thing. people always say "peddle in circles" etc. well, frankly, almost all cyclists have huge quads, and you should develop them. so push down hard with those quads and pump it piston-like. peddle in circles when your quads get tired. and pace yourself.

sd

how come you can't go 38-19? smallest in the front, biggest in rear? I'm guessing 19 is your biggest gear on the cassette? If not, go to maximum granny gear. 10% is pretty steep for a newbie (me included) to be running anything but granny.

I can go 38-19 , but the cadence is way too high for me out of the saddle. I would crack in 60 seconds! My gears are as follows:front - 48,38,28 rear - 34,24,21,19,17,15,13 Tonight I rode it sitting 38 on front and 21 on back and took about the same amount of time 7:15. Again heart rate in the 180's the whole time! I WILL DEFEAT THAT HILL!!!