"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Banned substance sanctions in other sports

NASCAR - get caught once, indefinite ban. Seems harsh.http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2009-05-10-nascar-disputes-mayfield_N.htm

NASCAR - get caught once, indefinite ban. Seems harsh.http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2009-05-10-nascar-disputes-mayfield_N.htm

I'm pretty sure "indefinite" in NASCAR terms means perhaps 1 race. I love the classic denial by the driver though. His fans will believe. :lol:

... Brad

The two lap suspension seemed too tame.

he already missed Darlington and looks like he will miss the Coca-Cola 600 as well

Nascar is a sport? :innocent:

Nascar is a sport? :innocent:

Bingo.


On a serious note, I get the safety aspects, but really, what's focus of their drug program? Too much steroid muscle on the gas pedal?

^^ that was my initial reaction as well.

Which then led to "Why issue an indefinite ban on a guy who used a substance that really doesn't give that much of a performance enhancement?"

easy. Some of us (maybe just me) are southern rednecks who follow NASCAR. :notamused:

^^ that was my initial reaction as well.

Which then led to "Why issue an indefinite ban on a guy who used a substance that really doesn't give that much of a performance enhancement?"

I don't think you read the article well enough:

Black, citing NASCAR policy, declined to specify what caused Mayfield to test positive, saying it was "a drug of concern."

NASCAR is not telling. Quite clearly, it's a drug that can improve performance ...... even for a race car driver. I would guess that his PED of choice helps improve reflexes.

... Brad

Not sure how "improved reflexes" helps you on a NASCAR track. Only thing it would help you do is avoid crashes.

If there was some magical drug that gave you perfect pit strategy, I could see that as a PED.

Not sure how "improved reflexes" helps you on a NASCAR track. Only thing it would help you do is avoid crashes.

If there was some magical drug that gave you perfect pit strategy, I could see that as a PED.

They (usually 40+ drivers) drive 180mph within inches of each other. They need real good reflexes.

Not sure how "improved reflexes" helps you on a NASCAR track.

Really???

... Brad

From my office chair, yes really. But Subby's point is well taken.

Increased concentration, alertness? Sudafed plus some other OTC drub leads to a speed/meth positive maybe?

Increased concentration?

Increased reaction time is really helpful in tight packs at high speed.

So we're talking about Provigil, then.

Or a cornucopia of stimulants.

Increased concentration?

Yeah, I mean (without intending insult to any fans) you're basically driving in circles for hours and hours on end. I could imagine my mental acuity starting to slip after a few hours of that.

Plus they're necks and backs are harnessed without much mobility, they drive 500 miles straight usually in 105F temps without breaks for water or to relieve themselves. They're slammed into walls at 100+mph and not all courses are loops. There are several road courses with narrow stretches and not much room to maneuver.

A few of these guys do mountain bike races when they're in town as well to stay in shape.

But I'm partial to the "sport" and don't want to get anything started.

So we're talking about Provigil, then.

Or a cornucopia of stimulants.

or Modafinil

Yeah, I mean (without intending insult to any fans) you're basically driving in circles for hours and hours on end. I could imagine my mental acuity starting to slip after a few hours of that.

I was responding to the OP and citing things I think it'd help ;)

I'm in agreement.

Plus they're necks and backs are harnessed without much mobility, they drive 500 miles straight usually in 150F temps with limited breaks for water or to relieve themselves.

A few of these guys do mountain bike races when they're in town as well to stay in shape.


Fixed.

The truth is, this is a very physical sport. It's not quite physical in the way that bike racing is, but it is analogous. The same way that people say to us, "I ride my bike" and we chuckle to ourselves, these guy chuckle to themselves when someone says, "My cousin/brother-in-law/co-worker drives race cars."

Any sort of chemical 'speed' is not effective. It's just a good way to crash. Good endurance physical fitness and a ridiculously high heat tolerance is. Also, the ability to not lose focus and concentration is absolutely mandatory. Descending on a bike is difficult and nerve-wracking. That is similar to what they do for hours at a time.

I'm pretty sure "indefinite" in NASCAR terms means perhaps 1 race.

... Brad

It will be longer than that.

it was probably a recreational drug that could impair reflexes or judgement.

ed rader

it was probably a recreational drug that could impair reflexes or judgement.

ed rader

That would be my guess. NASCAR doesn't want an accident that hurts or kills people, caused by an impaired driver. Leave the impairments to the fans.

That would be my guess. NASCAR doesn't want an accident that hurts or kills people, caused by an impaired driver. Leave the impairments to the fans.

I was supposed to go to the 600 this year. It's practically in my backyard. But the clan that invited me got thrown out last year.

How friggen sloppy drunk and rowdy do you have to be to get thrown out of a race? They found out. :lol:

That would be my guess. NASCAR doesn't want an accident that hurts or kills people, caused by an impaired driver. Leave the impairments to the fans.

Yet NASCAR is heavily sponsored by numerous alcohol brands. Oh delicious irony.

Yet NASCAR is heavily sponsored by numerous alcohol brands. Oh delicious irony.

You wanna know what's more ironic?

They banned cigarette ads and sponsorships but kept the booze. How many people die from smoking and driving?

You wanna know what's more ironic?

They banned cigarette ads and sponsorships but kept the booze. How many people die from smoking and driving?

Here's a question...what's more dangerous--smoking a cigarette, or sitting in the front row at a NASCAR race, inhaling all the exhaust fumes?

NASCAR---killing brain cells, one lap at at time.

I'm pretty sure "indefinite" in NASCAR terms means perhaps 1 race. I love the classic denial by the driver though. His fans will believe. :lol:

... Brad

Shane Hmiel (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tim_tuttle/04/17/hmiel/)

You wanna know what's more ironic?

They banned cigarette ads and sponsorships but kept the booze. How many people die from smoking and driving?

That's less of a decision by NASCAR and more of a decision by the US Government. They've made it so difficult for cigarette companies to advertise that it essentially didn't work with the NASCAR business model any more.

What NASCAR allowed that they had refused for a long time was hard liquor, which is why you now see Crown Royal and Jack Daniels as sponsors.

I think they should openly say what he tested positive for. His explanation sounds like nonsense, but he can get away with it because they aren't saying what he took. NASCAR drivers that are caught are usually taking recreational drugs. I can't imagine too many drugs that will help them other than muscle relaxants.

If you're driving a racecar and you're relying on your "reaction times" (as previously alluded to in this thread), you're doing it wrong.


I think it is obviously some illeagal drug - coke, meth, etc.

Mayfeild stated he was taking two allergy medications and has made the argument that they magically reacted in his body to make him fail the drug test.
The overseer of the testing labratory says, "In my many years of experience, I have never seen a violation like this due to the combination of over-the-counter or prescription products."
and furthermore describes it as "a drug of concern"

I'm happy to see that they have a drug testing system in place now (I'm not a NASCAR fan, but I'm pretty sure this is a recent thing).

Mac

If you're driving a racecar and you're relying on your "reaction times" (as previously alluded to in this thread), you're doing it wrong.



i'm curious as to why you say that.

i'm curious as to why you say that.

I guess it depends on how you are referring to "reaction time". If you are talking about steering around an accident, or RT at a drag strip, obviously that is important.

But most "racing laypeople" think that a driver need good reactions, to react quickly if the car is oversteering, for example. In reality the driver (if he's doing it right) is not reacting to the car, the car is reacting to his inputs. Vision, anticipation, and knowledge about the car's handling caracteristics, the course, and other drivers are all things I would list as more important than "reaction time" for a successfull race driver. Oh, and at the level where you actually get paid to drive, a knowledge of PR and how to kiss your sponsors' rear. :)

Mac

i'm curious as to why you say that.

What Sac02 wrote is on the money.

Race drivers work open loop in most situations. As the track or car handling subtly changes lap to lap, they adapt and their inputs are predictive in nature. When a driver goes 'closed loop', that when bad stuff is happening, such as crash avoidance or when there has been a sudden track change (a car in front puts a bunch of oil down).

Think of a really good musician. They don't consciously think about the next note, they just play it. Jazz musicians are a very good example. Stevie Ray Vaughn wasn't thinking this note, then this chord, etc. He was just making music. A good race driver acts in a very similar manner.

Open loop, your mind can process very, very quickly, say, 1,000,000 Hz. Closed loop is much slower, maybe on the order of 1000 Hz. Why any racer (car, bike, lawnmower, etc.) improves with experience is that their mind switches from running closed loop to open. You don't put yourself in bad situations, so you don't have to react to get yourself out of them.

I have yet to see a drug that gives you experience.

What Sac02 wrote is on the money.

Race drivers work open loop in most situations. As the track or car handling subtly changes lap to lap, they adapt and their inputs are predictive in nature. When a driver goes 'closed loop', that when bad stuff is happening, such as crash avoidance or when there has been a sudden track change (a car in front puts a bunch of oil down).

Think of a really good musician. They don't consciously think about the next note, they just play it. Jazz musicians are a very good example. Stevie Ray Vaughn wasn't thinking this note, then this chord, etc. He was just making music. A good race driver acts in a very similar manner.

Open loop, your mind can process very, very quickly, say, 1,000,000 Hz. Closed loop is much slower, maybe on the order of 1000 Hz. Why any racer (car, bike, lawnmower, etc.) improves with experience is that their mind switches from running closed loop to open. You don't put yourself in bad situations, so you don't have to react to get yourself out of them.

I have yet to see a drug that gives you experience.


You guys are not taking into account a lot of factors

1. A driver is making a ton of constant conscious decisions. (Yes he needs to have a good natural response as well). There are other drivers on the track who are plotting thier positions, and looking for the utmost advantage.

2. If you are fatigued your chance of making a critical error, just in how your postion in a 200 MPH paceline is will be affected. Not to mention safety.

3. Driving a stock car is extremly tiring, and takes a toll on the body, and mind.

4 Amphetamines would be a perfect drug to offset this.

I used to snicker when the local woodchucks would ramble on about how hard it is to drive, but then after Chris Carmichael added a driver's endurance training component to his offerings I figure maybe there's something to it.

Stevie Ray wasn't a jazz musician. :p:)

You guys are not taking into account a lot of factors

1. A driver is making a ton of constant conscious decisions. (Yes he needs to have a good natural response as well). There are other drivers on the track who are plotting thier positions, and looking for the utmost advantage.

2. If you are fatigued your chance of making a critical error, just in how your postion in a 200 MPH paceline is will be affected. Not to mention safety.

3. Driving a stock car is extremly tiring, and takes a toll on the body, and mind.

4 Amphetamines would be a perfect drug to offset this.

Anything that boosts attention and fights fatigue would have a performance enhancing effect for a race driver. It is hard to be predictive of the car's handling if you can't stop thinking about how sweaty your balls are or how much a nap would rule.

You guys are not taking into account a lot of factors

1. A driver is making a ton of constant conscious decisions. (Yes he needs to have a good natural response as well). There are other drivers on the track who are plotting thier positions, and looking for the utmost advantage.

2. If you are fatigued your chance of making a critical error, just in how your postion in a 200 MPH paceline is will be affected. Not to mention safety.

3. Driving a stock car is extremely tiring, and takes a toll on the body, and mind.

4 Amphetamines would be a perfect drug to offset this.

1. Correct. Among these decisions shouldn't be the actual driving of the car, though. The actual driving of the car should happen almost subconsciously.
2. Correct. Physical fatigue tends to compound mental fatigue. Drivers who are physically taxed are much more prone to making mistakes.
3. Moreso than many would believe.
4. Not really. The problem is you race stupid. I've seen guys do it on Red Bull (4-5 cans in an hour). It's the same thing that Joe Parkin's described in 'Dog in a Hat'. You end up taking a bunch of chances and it generally turns out wrong. The best race drivers are pretty calm people. The guys that are amp'ed all the time can do some amazing things for a short qualifying run, but if anyone tries to maintain that type of pace over a long race distance, they will nearly always turn the car into a smoldering pile of garbage. Amhpetamines don't add talent or skill.

Stevie Ray wasn't a jazz musician. :p:)

Ever see his performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival? Whether you think it's jazz or not, they claim him.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/musician.php?id=11034

http://chrissykiernan.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/250px-adderallxr-15mg.png?w=250&h=386

I bet you a buck it wasn't Adderal he got nabbed for.

I bet you a buck it wasn't Adderall he got nabbed for.

Fixed

Ever see his performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival? Whether you think it's jazz or not, they claim him.

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/musician.php?id=11034

Yeah, but they booed him the first year he was there.

probably adhd medication

Fixed

Oh my god! How could I ever have made such a horrible mistake.

Get over yourself.

Yeah, but they booed him the first year he was there.

That's true, but only the first.

probably adhd medication

For Mayfield? I don't think so. I think it was pot.