Tandem Cycling - Esge Pletscher double kickstand on a Co-motion Speedster?

Hi,
Has anyone successfully installed a Esge Pletscher Double kickstand onto a Co-Motion Speedster frame?
When I try to tighten it up (and it self centers) it ends up hitting the stoker timing chainring
Any suggestions?
Thanks, Duppie

Don't know about your frame and spacing, but I put mine on our Burley as soon as we bought it. However, its coming off to make room for cable routing for my new drum brake. I'm going to miss it. I really, really like having it on the bike.

It would seem that if the mounts extend outwards from the frame to the point they hit the chainring you should be able to simply trim off the edges of the mounts with a little careful hacksawing and a file. Is it the top or bottom mount? As you point out, the kickstand self-centers.

It would seem that if the mounts extend outwards from the frame to the point they hit the chainring you should be able to simply trim off the edges of the mounts with a little careful hacksawing and a file. Is it the top or bottom mount?

That part that hits the chainring is the housing of the swivel mechanism. I don't think I should be cutting into that.
Duppie

I was all set to go and buy one of these stands after getting a close look at them on three other Tandems, but when I decided to take a second look at our Burley Tamburello. I'm pretty sure I can't fit a stand mount between the rear wheel and the frame, so I'm back to laying the bike down:notamused:

I was all set to go and buy one of these stands after getting a close look at them on three other Tandems, but when I decided to take a second look at our Burley Tamburello. I'm pretty sure I can't fit a stand mount between the rear wheel and the frame, so I'm back to laying the bike down:notamused:

Or you could get a click-stand (TM). Cheaper, only 100g (or less, depending on the size of your bike), rather than a pound, supports the bike above the centre of gravity.

Or you could get a click-stand (TM). Cheaper, only 100g (or less, depending on the size of your bike), rather than a pound, supports the bike above the centre of gravity.

The click-stand (http://www.click-stand.com/) is something I will to look into next. I agree with the pro's you describe above, but when not in use you have to stick it somewhere, which means I will loose it at some point. An permanent kickstand does not have that issue.

We also did a loaded shakedown testride with front and rear panniers this weekend. I found that I can lay the tandem on the ground with only the tires and the panniers touching the ground. So that may be a temporary solution.
Duppie

The click-stand (http://www.click-stand.com/) is something I will to look into next. I agree with the pro's you describe above, but when not in use you have to stick it somewhere, which means I will lose it at some point. An permanent kickstand does not have that issue.

We keep ours in a pannier, which leaves us open to forgetting to put it away and riding off. I don't think that will happen to us, based on my faith in my stoker/wife's systematic nature. [Were it entirely up to me, that's a different matter]. Also sold as an option (which we didn't get) is a holder that fastens the folded stand to a tube - could be top tube, or could be another. You could tie a cord to the top of the stand and to the top tube of the bike, and then put the holder on the top tube, so the stand is always fastened to the top tube, and can be switched from the holder to the support position without untying it. In the photo below (taken from the click-stand site), reverse the stand front-to-back, so the support bracket is closer to the seat tube. Then tie a cord around the stand at the end, just "below" the support bracket, and tie the other end to either the top tube or the tube intersection. With the right length cord, you can fold it up for carrying and unfold it for bike support without every untying.

http://www.click-stand.com/images/centerzip.jpg

After letting it sit for a few days I tried again last night. It did fit, but barely - there is about 1 mm of space between the housing and the bolts on the inside of the chainring. The main problem that I have is the housing of the swivel mechanism is some shiny and slippery plastic coating and even though I thightened the allen bolt, there is still some movement in there. We'll take it out for a ride this weekend to see how it holds up.

If it doesn't work, the clickstand might be my next option. But there is no rush there. Apparently it is a one-man shop and he is out until June 18th "having fun (http://www.click-stand.com/)". He must be doing well because he is taking off six weeks in high season....
Duppie

The "Click-stand" sounds feasible, but not so quick as a "kick" of the Esge. It has got me thinking with the length of a tandem and the captian's seatpost being generally centered in the bike it might be possible to fabricate some kind of support that swings down from the seatpost, and swing up along the top tube for storage; the click stand without the click, i.e. not segmented.

The "Click-stand" sounds feasible, but not so quick as a "kick" of the Esge. It has got me thinking with the length of a tandem and the captian's seatpost being generally centered in the bike it might be possible to fabricate some kind of support that swings down from the seatpost, and swing up along the top tube for storage; the click stand without the click, i.e. not segmented.

Sounds like a kickstand....mounted to the seatpost :)

The "Click-stand" sounds feasible, but not so quick as a "kick" of the Esge. It has got me thinking with the length of a tandem and the captain's seatpost being generally centered in the bike it might be possible to fabricate some kind of support that swings down from the seatpost, and swing up along the top tube for storage; the click stand without the click, i.e. not segmented.

Would depend on the length of the top tube and captain's seat tube. The click-stand is designed to be one leg of an isosceles triangle, on level ground (i.e. if the bike weren't leaning it would just touch the ground); I guess that gives a good compromise on non-level ground. Since the deployed angle is not fixed (like on a kick-stand) it is more forgiving of sloping ground.

After letting it sit for a few days I tried again last night. It did fit, but barely - there is about 1 mm of space between the housing and the bolts on the inside of the chainring. The main problem that I have is the housing of the swivel mechanism is some shiny and slippery plastic coating and even though I thightened the allen bolt, there is still some movement in there. We'll take it out for a ride this weekend to see how it holds up.

Duppie, the "centering" you mentioned earlier has to be caused by a raised area either on the top plate or the bottom. (I don't use one, so I'm not sure which.) But whichever, just grind a mil or two off the "off-side" of it so it can "center" further away from the chainrings. This was a somewhat common thing to have to do to fit single kickstands to better road bikes when we couldn't talk the customers out of them.

The plastic coating was no doubt thought up by the orange-haired kid with the nose ring in response to customer complaints about the kickstands marring frames. Cheaper to dip it in something than to include precisely shaped rubber inserts. It does protect the frame, but as you noted, now the KS won't stay put. And you can't torque down on it but just so hard!

So, other work-arounds:

Grind off the plastic crap and cut an old innertube to go under the top plate and above the bottom plate. That ought to hold it.

But if it doesn't, I've also used self-adhesive, skateboard grip tape. Wrap the chainstays in it the width of the KS plates, and then super glue the self-adhesive tape to the top and bottom plates. You may have to grind either one or both of them smooth to get good adhesion, but that WILL hold it! It's a lot of trouble, though! So just how badly do you want a kickstand?

Duppie, the "centering" you mentioned earlier has to be caused by a raised area either on the top plate or the bottom. (I don't use one, so I'm not sure which.) But whichever, just grind a mil or two off the "off-side" of it so it can "center" further away from the chainrings. This was a somewhat common thing to have to do to fit single kickstands to better road bikes when we couldn't talk the customers out of them.

The plastic coating was no doubt thought up by the orange-haired kid with the nose ring in response to customer complaints about the kickstands marring frames. Cheaper to dip it in something than to include precisely shaped rubber inserts. It does protect the frame, but as you noted, now the KS won't stay put. And you can't torque down on it but just so hard!

So, other work-arounds:

Grind off the plastic crap and cut an old innertube to go under the top plate and above the bottom plate. That ought to hold it.

But if it doesn't, I've also used self-adhesive, skateboard grip tape. Wrap the chainstays in it the width of the KS plates, and then super glue the self-adhesive tape to the top and bottom plates. You may have to grind either one or both of them smooth to get good adhesion, but that WILL hold it! It's a lot of trouble, though!
Onegun,
That is some great advice. You are correct. The top plate has a raised center area. I don't have a grinder, so I may try removing the plastic first and use some shims made from old tires.


So just how badly do you want a kickstand?

While I can live without a kickstand, I want to try all my options first. Mrs. Duppie and I own a total of 8 bikes, including our tandem. All 8 of them have a kickstand, just as they all have fenders and a rear rack. (I could explain why I think bikes need all these components, but that kind of conversation usually quickly dissolves in a discussion between roadies/fitness riders on one hand and commuter/utility bikers on the other. I am not interested in that. To each his own.)

Duppie

Duppie - today I spent a couple of hours putting a new Aria drum brake on the Burley and working around the kickstand issue. So I measured and my kickstand body clears the stoker's timing ring chain by 15mm, with the kickstand centered in the frame. I'm having a hard time figuring out how it would hit the stokers rings unless it wasn't centered in the frame.

Glad to see the above post because it must be something on the kickstand that keeps it from centering up. There is a raised ridge on the bottom housing. I make a template from an old tube and use for padding when I mount it. FWIW if it scratches the frame a bit, it matters not to me.

By the way, I installed the drum brake by routing the cable and housing through the center of the kickstand so I still have my stand. Pics later.

Good luck with the kickstand. Sounds like a fixable problem.

Duppie - today I spent a couple of hours putting a new Aria drum brake on the Burley and working around the kickstand issue. So I measured and my kickstand body clears the stoker's timing ring chain by 15mm, with the kickstand centered in the frame. I'm having a hard time figuring out how it would hit the stokers rings unless it wasn't centered in the frame.

Glad to see the above post because it must be something on the kickstand that keeps it from centering up. There is a raised ridge on the bottom housing. I make a template from an old tube and use for padding when I mount it. FWIW if it scratches the frame a bit, it matters not to me.

By the way, I installed the drum brake by routing the cable and housing through the center of the kickstand so I still have my stand. Pics later.

Good luck with the kickstand. Sounds like a fixable problem.

Mono,
The bolt is centered between the chainstays. What kind of crankset do you have. We have the FSA Gossamer MegaExo that came on the bike. Before 2005 Co-Motion installed Race Face cranks which was described by a reviewer (http://www.co-motion.com/reviews/pdf/Review%20-%20Co-Motion%27s%20Speedster%20Co-Pilot.pdf) as excessively wide. Could that make the difference?

On Sunday we did a 60 miles shakedown ride in preparation for our four day ride this weekend. The panniers were (over)loaded with books and dirty laundry. We used the kickstand at various breaks and it held up well. Loading and unloading the bike was a breeze. It did not appear to hit the timing-chainring either. So for now I am going to leave it on.
Duppie

Duppie..we bought the Burley Rock-N-Roll used, a 2002 model. As far as I can tell it just has the factory Cyclone aluminum crankset, nothing special. Camera batteries are dead but when I get some new ones I'll take some good pictures of the fittings and post them here.

If the bottom bracket is wider the chainrings would be further apart, so there should be MORE clearance. Since bottom brackets come in a fairly narrow range of widths and are all somewhat close to a standard it just seems like there would be enough room.

Like yourself, I like having racks, and a kickstand. I know, its a couple of extra pounds to tote but that doesn't matter much to me. The kickstand is so convenient, especially on a steel tandem, I don't know why you wouldn't want one.