Great Lakes - Initiation into the battered cyclist's club...

Hi JC,

Good luck, & we are with you.

Michael

thanks mike sorry i didnt get back to you about that ride. Just been real busy at work. I would like to do your ride though. I'll get back to you when my schedule isn't crazy. thanks again.

Good luck in court today and keep us posted.

Good luck. Cant't wait to hear the outcome, if it even goes today.

well first the court reporter was a no show. So the case was called and then sent back to wait. Then everybody (lawyers,judge,etc.) realized I actually showed up. It was called again and then went back to waiting some more. Finally, it was the very last case to be called up. It took all of three minutes to push it off until 9/3/09 room 103 at 9 am. The prosecutor talked with me afterwards and mentioned that his lawyer wanted supervision. The prosecutor showed me his god awful driving and criminal record. He said he is not going to be lenient in this case. You should see how bad of driver this guy really is, scary. Anyway, i hope that maybe this case will get this guy off of the road for good. People like him should not be driving. The prosecutor informed me the biggest charge is a Class A misdemeanor and the other two are petty offenses. I'm not quite sure what that means but it seems serious. It sucks this happened to me but if some justice can be done here it will be worth it.

as a side note, i can't believe how stiff they are on dui's. even for a first time offense it's at least a total of roughly 3-4000 dollars and hours of community service and counseling. wow, no mercy there.

Thanks for showing and trying to stick him. Please show the next time also, we all appreciate it.

I had to do the same thing to some loser vandals at my business. The thing that ticked me off is I was the aggrieved party but had no control over what charges to bring. Sucked as they let them effectively walk (I was even willing to hire my own prosecuting attorney). They didn't even have to pay my full cost of repairs. Just love the system.:mad:

It sounds like a truly dangerous loser is going to be taken off the road. Hang in there, it will be worth it.

Michael

I really appreciate what you are doing jc! Tons of support here.

What happened to you is one of my only fears when cycling, that some idiot will get pissed at me for looking at him as I try to make sure they are seeing me, for taking up 3 feet of lane, for smiling during a particularly good run, or for just existing on "his road".

I get tons of people who feel the need to gun it then swerve into my space after they pass me and all it takes is for the guy to hit the brakes and I'm on his trunk too!

So... thank you man! Keep it up, kicks some ass, & take some names!!!!

I was in that courtroom from 9am til noon. I discovered that it's just about impossible to tell who's who unless you know the defendant's name. I kinda figured yours was one of the cases that got continued.
I'll come back on Sep 3rd, maybe you could p.m. me the defendants name.

There was a d.u.i. case where from about 11 to 12 the guy's lawyer tried to get the guy's statements to police thrown out as evidence, then tried to get all charges dismissed on the grounds that nothing wrong had been done by his client to attract police attention(he was parked on the side of the road near a traffic light at 4am in dense fog with no lights on and engine running. About an hour of tedious back and forth questioning, judge watches the squad car dash-cam video, more questions. Then judge says nope, clients statements are admissible and the officer had every reason to check on that car. I think he's coming back on sep 3 also, probably get the book thrown at him. That judge, Petrucha I think, seems pretty fair and also not willing to let folks weasel out of any legal responsibility or consequences, I hope he's the same guy in that room on Sep 3rd.
By the way, that was my bike locked up near the courthouse entrance with the headlight still on, batteries slowly draining.

Thanks for showing and trying to stick him. Please show the next time also, we all appreciate it.

I had to do the same thing to some loser vandals at my business. The thing that ticked me off is I was the aggrieved party but had no control over what charges to bring. Sucked as they let them effectively walk (I was even willing to hire my own prosecuting attorney). They didn't even have to pay my full cost of repairs. Just love the system.:mad:

The "aggrieved party" in a crimnal case is not the individual who is the "alleged victim". While you do have some, limited rights (see the crime victim and witness bill of rights, if you are unsure of what they are) determining what charges to bring is not one of them.

You do have (or did have) the ability, however, to seek full recovery in civil court. Rather than trying to hire your own prosecutor, did you think about hiring your own attorney to sue? That's EXACTLY what the civil courtrooms are for.

The prosecutor showed me his god awful driving and criminal record. He said he is not going to be lenient in this case. You should see how bad of driver this guy really is, scary. Anyway, i hope that maybe this case will get this guy off of the road for good. People like him should not be driving. ... It sucks this happened to me but if some justice can be done here it will be worth it.

+1. While respecting the principle of "innocent until proven guilty," that sure makes it sounds as if turning this driver into a non-driver would serve justice and public safety. Maybe there'll be one more cyclist on Algonquin! :thumb:

Keep the pressure on him.

9/3...The court system is never in a hurry are they?

I missed due to last minute business meeting (came in at 6:30am). I've got the new date on my calender.

I have to say I am shocked this case is getting the treatment it is. I was expecting a slap on the wrist, this is great news. You're a true martyr.

The "aggrieved party" in a crimnal case is not the individual who is the "alleged victim". While you do have some, limited rights (see the crime victim and witness bill of rights, if you are unsure of what they are) determining what charges to bring is not one of them.

You do have (or did have) the ability, however, to seek full recovery in civil court. Rather than trying to hire your own prosecutor, did you think about hiring your own attorney to sue? That's EXACTLY what the civil courtrooms are for.

And here is the MAGICAL CRUX of the issue ... what are my odds of getting all of my attorneys fees covered? :mad:

And here is the MAGICAL CRUX of the issue ... what are my odds of getting all of my attorneys fees covered? :mad:

I have no idea, as I don't do criminal law. I'm sure the prospective attorney whom may handle the case could explain that to you.

Or, hell, just get a copy of the criminal disposition and go into small claims yourself. You may not even need an attorney.

Either way there is a legal mechanism set up for that sort of stuff.

Keep the pressure on him.

9/3...The court system is never in a hurry are they?

The long delays in midemeanor cases in cook county are determined, mostly, by the schedule of the officer who investigated the crime. That's probably the officer's next available "key" date. It's not as much of the "court system" dragging its feet as it is the executive branch of the government (there) trying to save taxpayer money.

In other counties it wouldn't take as long, but they may end up paying the arresting officer overtime.

Overtime?? Whats that??

The "aggrieved party" in a crimnal case is not the individual who is the "alleged victim". While you do have some, limited rights (see the crime victim and witness bill of rights, if you are unsure of what they are) determining what charges to bring is not one of them.

You do have (or did have) the ability, however, to seek full recovery in civil court. Rather than trying to hire your own prosecutor, did you think about hiring your own attorney to sue? That's EXACTLY what the civil courtrooms are for.

Which is a major fault of our legal system. If an offense is real, it should be illegal and taken care of by the criminal courts. This should not be what civil courts are for. - TF

The long delays in midemeanor cases in cook county are determined, mostly, by the schedule of the officer who investigated the crime. That's probably the officer's next available "key" date. It's not as much of the "court system" dragging its feet as it is the executive branch of the government (there) trying to save taxpayer money.

In other counties it wouldn't take as long, but they may end up paying the arresting officer overtime.

Consider me enlightened. Thanks for the explanation, makes sense to me. My legal backround consists of watching Judge Judy once in a while. (I usually watch it when I need an ego boost...it always makes me feel better about myself.)

Which is a major fault of our legal system. If an offense is real, it should be illegal and taken care of by the criminal courts. This should not be what civil courts are for. - TF

It's set up that way because there are constitutional provision that exist in the criminal system that do not in the civil system. So, if by "fault" you mean that you're in favor of having less personal rights you can go a long way towards changing that. It would probably have to start with changing your state statutes and constitution. And then, possibly, the U.S. Constitution.

All of which have been changed in the past and will probably be changed in the future. It just takes enough interest. Of course, right now there does not seem to be widespread intrerest in doing that.

It's set up that way because there are constitutional provision that exist in the criminal system that do not in the civil system. So, if by "fault" you mean that you're in favor of having less personal rights you can go a long way towards changing that. It would probably have to start with changing your state statutes and constitution. And then, possibly, the U.S. Constitution.

All of which have been changed in the past and will probably be changed in the future. It just takes enough interest. Of course, right now there does not seem to be widespread intrerest in doing that.

Our legal system is influenced way more by precedent than by constitution and the drift has been from criminal to civil.

- There is little money to be made in criminal court.
- There is way too much money to be made in civil court.

Also, newer laws, such as labor, environmental and white collar crime, are designed to be sorted out in civil court where it will be monetary rather than prison. Different punishment for a different class of people.

TF

EDIT: Sorry about highjacking the thread. I'll stop now. - TF

well i actually was injured a little bit worse than i originally thought and my medical bills are adding up. so i have a lawyer for the civil action as well. if you want to blame any party for having to resort to civil action then blame the horrendously overpriced medical community. if my insurance was decent and hospitals didn't gouge sick people there would be a lot less need for having to pursue a civil suit.

If you want to blame any party for having to resort to civil action then blame the horrendously overpriced medical community. if my insurance was decent and hospitals didn't gouge sick people there would be a lot less need for having to pursue a civil suit.


Didnt you say in a previous post that you were an M.D.?

Didnt you say in a previous post that you were an M.D.?

no not an md, im a dn. In terms of licensing, it's the same as a chiro. Being part of the medical community makes me realize the need for some kind of change in our current system. The patient is not top priority anymore. OK sorry for starting to get on my soapbox, it's hard not to though when you deal with insurance companies everyday. Ok i'm done i promise.

Such jerks exist. I've met them but somewhat tamer forms.. This azehole needs a lesson. I'd call it attempted murder.. Take it to the limit plze.. You have been examined so you can pad the lawsuit with all you've got.. Please, keep us informed of the outcome.

Our legal system is influenced way more by precedent than by constitution and the drift has been from criminal to civil.

Yes, and most of those cases interpret our constitution which, in a large way, is a set-in-stone departure from the aspects of British common law that the drafters did not care for. You can't talk about what the system "should" do in a vacuum and ignore the constitution.



- There is little money to be made in criminal court.
- There is way too much money to be made in civil court.


Is this why all the lawyers who used to do real estate and small claims are flooding into criminal courts? Or the same reason that large civil litigation firms are making cutbacks at rates that far exceed other industries?

You can't make black-and-white statements like that. Right now civil litigation is sharply declining, and the real estate market is virtually nil. The number of people arrested, however, remains about constant. If there's so much money to be made in civil court, maybe all those weenie civil attorneys should get out of the criminal courtrooms and leave it for those of us who have a genuine interest in it.



Also, newer laws, such as labor, environmental and white collar crime, are designed to be sorted out in civil court where it will be monetary rather than prison. Different punishment for a different class of people.


I disagree. White collar criminals are currently getting prison sentences that are waaaaaaaay more severe than ever before. Ask Martha Stewart.


Getting back more slightly on topic, restitution is much more accurately determined and collected in the civil system than it is in criminal. We can have a discussion about whether or not that "should" be the case, but it currently is the case until people begin to make major changes. And, people have been very hesitant to do so.

I'm not intending to defend the system or rally against it. But it doesn't make sense to talk about what it "should" be without also discussing the principals that set the parameters for what can and can not be done.

And, if you think the criminal system moves slow now, just wait to see how things are delayed if you merged the full spectrum of civil recoveries in a case such as jc's into the criminal cases. It's likely the amount of money he's out has not even fully been determined yet as there are still (possibly... I don't know any details, really) outstanding doctor's visits and medical follow-up.

Not to mention the additional amount of time/tax payer money that would go into proving a traffic ticket that would otherwise result in a plea of guilty or a 15 minute trial.

jc's been the one wrapped up in the system here. He doesn't seem to have any qualms with his (brief) experience attempting to recover for his injuries. Hopefully it will stay that way.

jc's been the one wrapped up in the system here. He doesn't seem to have any qualms with his (brief) experience attempting to recover for his injuries. Hopefully it will stay that way.


the only qualm i have is how eager my insurance is to not pay for any part of this. i've already gotten two questionaires to determine if they should be paying or not. they certainly have no problem taking my money every month. In the end, i just don't think any money related to this incident should come out of my pocket. I wasn't the one who had the temper tantrum/road rage problem.

I would rather get run over on my bike rather than have to deal with insurance companies. You feel the same way when it's over...sore, angry, kinda bloody, and mentally exhausted.

well i figured i'd update the case here. court was today, he pled guilty to leaving the scene and failure to yield. he got two days in cook county doc, 1 year suspension of driving, and $750 in fines. now on to the civil proceedings so i can get my med bills covered.

Thats a good step. Were there any charges related to him doing this intentionally? assault w/ vehicle?

Strike one for the good guys!

thanks for the update and for getting this guy off the street even for a little while. Good luck with the civil side I hope the outcome is favorable.

Turned out better than I expected. Good deal.

yep the judge reamed him a new one

Glad to hear it

Rock on. Good luck in the civil portion.

Nice job in keeping on this guy. I live in Minneapolis near the bike paths and parkways. I see more jerks in cars doing dangerous (deadly) stuff with their cars because they don't want to share the road with us on two wheels.

Nice job in keeping on this guy. I live in Minneapolis near the bike paths and parkways. I see more jerks in cars doing dangerous (deadly) stuff with their cars because they don't want to share the road with us on two wheels.

honestly this has been the worst year by far in my cycling career. People are so much more intolerant this year compared to all the others i've been out on the road. I started mtb again because its much more peaceful and enjoyable for me now. I love the road but the intolerance and hate has gotten to me.